elizabeth1979

Patty, did he ask you to go see him?
Or did he ask you for anything else?
Im just trying to see more of the picture

pmaslan

Judy....
When he left in May it was his choice where he went. I didn't tell him to go to
his parents. I told him to go to the VA hospital. All I knew was that he couldn't
stay with me. Yes, I sent him away hoping he would hit a bottom. His mother
claimed she would see that he entered the VA in PA for treatment. He obviously
conned her because that didn't happen. I know I can't control his bottom.
After he wore his welcome out with his parents he went to the ex-wife, who
is totally oblivious to the degree of his addiction. I don't understand what you
mean about me not "clueing his enabler in to my plan" I don't have a plan. I am winging this minute by minute.
"NO" I am no better able to help him then they are, but it seems to me that since
he has been under their wings he has gotten 100% worse than when he left here.
I told him on the phone that I would not bring him home with me. I told him I would
take him to the VA and support him (in his recovery) as long as this is what HE wants. I know he has got to want it . I am not so foolish to think I can make any of
this happen.....
Again I never sent him anywhere, his mother sent him the money for the train
when he left in May....I didn't even take him to the train, I was on vacation with
my kids the day he left.
Going back to anyone is not the answer. The answer is within him and if he wants the
help he can get it at the VA.....
I know you are only saying what I already know and I know it is with compassion
that you do......

paula a.

Getting worse is how we get to the bottom isn't it? I feel for you Patty, I only hope that you take the time to think before you get pulled back in. He can find the bottom without dragging you down too.

Hugs,
Paula

ASpouse

Oooops on my part, I thought you sent him back to his family for help , therefore I would then think that letting the other enablers know of your plans would probably be an important piece to the "plan". But ..... I mis-read your post. Sorry!

ICU

Patty,

Just wanted to clarify something here - without treatment, alcoholism is progressive. He was going to get 100% worse no matter who he was with! It's not his mother's fault, or the ex-wife's fault, or your fault! It's his to own!

minnie

(((patty)))

I really feel for you.

Just a thought for you - he was able to organise himself enough get a new job. Don't you think he can do the same to get himself to the VA hospital?

laurie6781

Patty, I'm going to tell you a story from my past that I don't talk much about. I divorced the love of my life, Donald, in 1976 because of his actions and alcoholism.

We stayed in contact all the years since. I got sober in 1981. It wasn't until I got sober that I stopped "helping" him. He had short periods of sobriety over the years but could never stay sober. I loved him then and I love him still. He died in March of 1999 from the disease of alcoholism, in downtown Los Angelses 300 feet from the spot where his older brother had died 20 years before.

I tell you this because I would like to suggest the following. Get his things from the hotel and box them up. Then when and if he is moved to the VA send them to him or if he disappears again send them to his mother.

Think long and hard before visiting him in the hospital. Are you ready to stab yourself in the heart even deeper by seeing him in person. Talk with your sponsor and go to some meetings. Do a "Pro and Con" list on visiting him in the hospital. Check your motives. Do you want to visit because:

It will reaffirm you were right?
Out of compassion for a fellow human being with no strings attached?
To harden your heart? etc etc

Donald always said he wanted us to remarry and I believe in his heart he did. I would tell him that until he could show by his actions that he was at least 3 years sober there was no sense in talking about that subject. I had to give him to God. Was it hard? You bet it was probably harder than my getting sober.

It was killing me. My AA sponsor and my Alanon sponsor were friends and boy they sure had a handful working with me to get through this.

Think long and hard Patty, listen to your boys. Why are you putting yourself and them through more hell? Please talk with your sponsor.

Think twice and then think twice again. My opinion is just that my opinion, but I do not believe your visiting him in the hospital is Healthy for you or your boys.

All of the above has been posted with love for you and your boys and I have you and the boys in my daily prayers.

God be with you.

Love and hugs,

equus

Patty, this is how I do it, or should I say this is what I find helps me get nearer!!

I don't think questioning motives is bad - I think it's bloody marvelous and can help us lots!! The problem is how to know the answers to our questions.

When it comes to my motives a big clue to me is my reactions, where they are fearful or angry it's a good signal to me that my motives are self driven, where my reactions place me at peace it's a signal to me that it is compassion.

I believe I always had real love and compassion for D but some attached also grew and it was that which caused much of my upset. In my case it often wasn't D I was angry at but the NHS - none the less my anger came from wanting to keep D. I didn't need ANGER for compassion. But even at the same time other things were motivated by what was genuine compassion and in the position we were in that did involve being an advocate sometimes, I actually did that BETTER while holding compassion for the proffessionals. Compassion where it's right doesn't make us feel negative emotions.

In the end about two months ago (I think) I began to realise I had become attached and that the attachment wasn't bringing anything positive - love does, ooodles of positive but not attachment. I felt I was unsure to always know the difference so I would feed the love I knew wasn't attachment, I would value not expect, I would respect not interfere, I would stop saying 'Can I keep you...' even as a sweet little term of love, I would look hard at why I felt anger or fear and mostly it came back to what I wanted for me!

I'm not perfect at it by a long way - if D was in a crash I would still be terrified to lose him. BUT I have become more afraid of losing that real compassion than losing him - if I felt the anger, fear and resentment grow enough to cloud out the positives that come from real love I would know my compassion has lost the battle to being attached. At that point I know my own behaviour well enough to know that angry, fearful and resentful I cannot help anyone - I will more likely do more harm than good. Then I would lose D rather than hurt him with my being attached too much.

And if I've managed to make all that make sense it's a bloody miracle!!

pmaslan

Laurie, I've read your story before and I applaud you.....(((Laurie)))


My motives to see him again:

I would like to see him on last time before he dies......is that wrong?

ASpouse

Why do you think he is dying?

laurie6781

No Patty that is not wrong and I understand totally. However, you must look deep within yourself to see if what you "want" is what you "need."

I will also suggest it might be better to see if he makes it to the VA, and then see him there "one more time before he dies."

Being an alkie myself, and no I do not know his motives, but I do know alkies, I cannot help but think that he is already or will be using this to try to manipulate you one more time.

I am just very concerned and worried for you Patty and the emotional Hell this is once again putting you through. My logical side, of course, says run the other way, my emotional side, having been where you are says go slow, think it through.

I have one more question for you, if you do decide to go visit him, is there anyway you can take your alanon sponsor or someone who knows your situtaion with you to have a "grounding" affect and keep things in perspective??

Again, I have you and your boys in my daily prayers.

God be with you.

Love and hugs,

elizabeth1979

[QUOTE]I have one more question for you, if you do decide to go visit him, is there anyway you can take your alanon sponsor or someone who knows your situtaion with you to have a "grounding" affect and keep things in perspective??[QUOTE]

I think this is a good idea.

ASpouse

I just totally love this line!

pmaslan

Yes knowing what you need is more than knowing what you want.....
I do get that.....

I may take someone with me to the hospital, but even at that I still have me to deal with.

Judy, everytime he ends up in detox he gets a little closer to death, he is always
one drink away from death when the ambulance gets there.
This is #23 or is it #24 in a 2 year time frame.
I don't know nor does anyone when that last time may be.
I should walk away but I can't. Honestly I just can't, not today.
The only thing I can do is not bring him home, not give him money,
not let him take advantage of my compassion for him.
He is not able to get his bag from the hotel. He has tried. The hotel said
it is not their responsibility I agree.
He was brought to the hospital by ambulance in just a pair of jeans....
no shirt, no shoes, no money.....
If he decides to go to PA or NY once I have delivered what he needs and
what he wants.....so be it. I will have done him a favor, I expect NOTHING
in return.
If he wants to go to the VA perhaps transport would be provided by the hospital.
If he asks me to take him DIRECTLY to the hospital ....no passing go, no collectiong
$200, I will.
Yes, I have a need to know that he will be okay, call it codie, call it stupid, I call it
human. And for today this is the best I can do with how I feel.

ASpouse

....... ah, alcoholics are always one drink away from dying Patty! It's part of the game for them, the drama.

But I respect what you need to do for yourself. I'll be here to support you if things don't work out as you expect them to.

pmaslan

Judy...for gods sake i have no plan.....i am just helping someone that
has asked and if he doesn't keep his PLAN then I am done helping. it is a simple
and as complicated as that.
As far as the one drink away, his bac has been as high as 4.87 leaving many
in question of how he survived. all it takes is one more, one day that may very well happen.
I am fully aware of what I am doing, the risk I am taking. I really think I am
strong enough to deal with me. Yes, things may fall apart but each one of us runs
the risk of that when involved with an alcoholic, recovering or not....

equus

This is so true, D's life is uninsurable - there's a reason for that. I remember thinking that a handful of hope was a **** poor swap for all the expectations other couples have. Now I've learned all the expectations would be a **** poor swap for a handful of hope.

If it was alcoholism that forced me to let go of expecting I have more to thank it for than complain about in my own life. Because each day is so precious and fills me with happiness - because I learned the things we don't expect from are the ones we love freely and also without pain. Like a skylark singing or a frozen cobweb - and yes I have said that before :P

ASpouse

I'm sorry, I changed my wording. My father in laws BAL was something like 5.90 when he was shipped off to a psych ward and everyone was amazed he was still alive ...... and he is still alive today, although no longer drinking.

Good luck tonight.

pmaslan

and this is where I humble myself to the disease, to god and to all of you here
that have gone before me in this same vein.
all i can do today is offer hope and prayer that all will be well.
i have no crystal ball to foresee the future, even though i may secretly think i know
the truths of whats to come.
repeating the same thing over and over again expecting different results
surely is insanity, but without hope imho, there really is nothing left.
i will not give up hope, as there is a man behind this disease, i will never forget
that part, thank you to all who have believed in that.

minnie

Hon, callous though this might sound, it is YOU that we are concerned about here.

I for one, do not see it as a coincidence that he has drunk enough to be in hospital when he happens to be visiting your town. This is another one of those tests, imho.

You know we are all here for you, no matter what. And if you have another lesson to learn, no-one is going to say "I told you so". Well, they might , but certainly not in a judgemental way, more in an arm-around-the-shoulder-we've-been-there kind of way.