Owning my part has been a part of healing
sage
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by trailmix 
An example of a rule would be: You must cut down on your drinking and never drink in our home again. So there is the rule, in order for this rule to work, he has to agree and actually do it. So that takes the result completely out of your control. You are just asking him to do something. Whether he does it or not - nothing you can do about that.
An example of a boundary would be: If he does not cut down on his drinking or if he drinks in our home again, I am leaving. The difference is that is YOUR boundary and completely within your control. He doesn't actually get a say in this or what you do about your boundary. Boundaries are just for you, you can share them with people are not if you like, but they are yours.
That's freeing.
An example of a boundary would be: If he does not cut down on his drinking or if he drinks in our home again, I am leaving. The difference is that is YOUR boundary and completely within your control. He doesn't actually get a say in this or what you do about your boundary. Boundaries are just for you, you can share them with people are not if you like, but they are yours.
That's freeing.
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Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 143
Kaya, I know you know this and don't need to hear it, but I do want to say it: Your basic standards of marriage are beyond reasonable. Beyond reasonable. Minimally reasonable. 
Those are your standards and you do not have to be in a relationship if they are not met. The second a man (including someone who is just my boyfriend) is intimate with someone else, has an emotional texting affair with someone else, etc., I'm done. I don't put up with it. I see it -- it's over. I exit the relationship. That's easier for me to say because I never had to leave a marriage or a house or kick someone out of the house -- I am single and I own the house and I live in my house by myself. I do realize that my situation is easy.
One thing this whole situation with my AXBF has taught me is that I'm not going to ever justify my standards or lower my standards every again. I don't want to be in a relationship with a guy who is in other intimate relationships or emotional affairs. I also don't want to be with someone who gets drunk. An occasional drink is fine, but I have no patience for babysitting someone who is intoxicated. I'm too old for that and, frankly, too smart to sit around and talk to someone who, while drunk, has the mind of a 3 year old.
Kaya, you said, "I still don't think he understands just how much drinking daily played a role in the chaos and me not trusting his decision making." I could have written that. After a night of binge drinking and then texting me awful things, the next day my AXBF would be like, "Are you mad at me." Yes, I'm mad at you because you are disrespectful to me when you are drinking. Then he would say, "I was barely drinking" or "I wasn't drinking" or "drinking had nothing to do with it." He had no clue about how much his daily drinking played a role in 99.99999999999% of the chaos in our lives and in our relationship and me not trusting him. Shoot, his drinking was THE ONE AND ONLY REASON why we had chaos and why I distrusted him. I told him once that all of his problems (job absenteeism, money problems as a result, and a ton of other biological family chaos he caused) would all fall away if he just stopped drinking. He disagreed. He thought the chaos was somehow there before the drinking and the drinking helped him through it. I could never make him see it the other way.
Those are your standards and you do not have to be in a relationship if they are not met. The second a man (including someone who is just my boyfriend) is intimate with someone else, has an emotional texting affair with someone else, etc., I'm done. I don't put up with it. I see it -- it's over. I exit the relationship. That's easier for me to say because I never had to leave a marriage or a house or kick someone out of the house -- I am single and I own the house and I live in my house by myself. I do realize that my situation is easy.One thing this whole situation with my AXBF has taught me is that I'm not going to ever justify my standards or lower my standards every again. I don't want to be in a relationship with a guy who is in other intimate relationships or emotional affairs. I also don't want to be with someone who gets drunk. An occasional drink is fine, but I have no patience for babysitting someone who is intoxicated. I'm too old for that and, frankly, too smart to sit around and talk to someone who, while drunk, has the mind of a 3 year old.
Kaya, you said, "I still don't think he understands just how much drinking daily played a role in the chaos and me not trusting his decision making." I could have written that. After a night of binge drinking and then texting me awful things, the next day my AXBF would be like, "Are you mad at me." Yes, I'm mad at you because you are disrespectful to me when you are drinking. Then he would say, "I was barely drinking" or "I wasn't drinking" or "drinking had nothing to do with it." He had no clue about how much his daily drinking played a role in 99.99999999999% of the chaos in our lives and in our relationship and me not trusting him. Shoot, his drinking was THE ONE AND ONLY REASON why we had chaos and why I distrusted him. I told him once that all of his problems (job absenteeism, money problems as a result, and a ton of other biological family chaos he caused) would all fall away if he just stopped drinking. He disagreed. He thought the chaos was somehow there before the drinking and the drinking helped him through it. I could never make him see it the other way.
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Trail mix. “He thought the chaos was somehow there before the drinking and the drinking helped him through it. I could never make him see it the other way”…. Yes yes yes. This is word for word how my AH feels. Thank you so much for your reply and also for validating that my wants in a marriage were way within reason. I really appreciated this
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: maine
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Remember the end of The Wizard of Oz? The good witch was there to send Dorothy off, but she had to figure out what she was there to learn all on her own. It wasn't the task of the Scarecrow to tell her, or the Tin Man to feel it in his heart. It's the same with our qualifiers. That's why threats, rules, and ultimatums don't work. The only way one comes to sobriety it if it's the addict's idea.
With all due respect, the bolded was his truth. Not an objective fact, not an alternative theory. This was his truth, and you are absolutely
right. You could never make him see it another way.
Originally Posted by OKRunner
I told him once that all of his problems (job absenteeism, money problems as a result, and a ton of other biological family chaos he caused) would all fall away if he just stopped drinking. He disagreed. He thought the chaos was somehow there before the drinking and the drinking helped him through it. I could never make him see it the other way.
right. You could never make him see it another way.
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: maine
Posts: 1,548
Remember the end of The Wizard of Oz? The good witch was there to send Dorothy off, but she had to figure out what she was there to learn all on her own. It wasn't the task of the Scarecrow to tell her, or the Tin Man to feel it in his heart. It's the same with our qualifiers. That's why threats, rules, and ultimatums don't work. The only way one comes to sobriety it if it's the addict's idea.
With all due respect, the bolded was his truth. Not an objective fact, not an alternative theory. This was his truth, and you are absolutely
right. You could never make him see it another way.
Originally Posted by OKRunner
I told him once that all of his problems (job absenteeism, money problems as a result, and a ton of other biological family chaos he caused) would all fall away if he just stopped drinking. He disagreed. He thought the chaos was somehow there before the drinking and the drinking helped him through it. I could never make him see it the other way.
right. You could never make him see it another way.
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Velma.. I understand where you you are coming from. I see that is his truth... however if that was his truth he could have told me his truth instead of his lies ... If his truth was " I am ok being drunk as **** daily and I will call you names and drink and drive ect" oh and let's add in "drinking without telling you and you get in the car with me and don't notice until I swerve and you are now scared as **** and I won't pull over"... If that is his truth...I deserved his truth instead of his lies... I did not deserve to be put in these positions. So with all due respect HIS truth put our family in danger... so my new with the information I now know is to tell him the **** off...
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I suspect that almost every addict has a secret desire: to be able to control her/his use and live a somewhat normal life and never completely give up the first love, the drug. Even if someone could coalesce that thought in his head, coming out and saying it would demonstrate what a huge problem he already had.
If he had come out and said, "This is as good as it gets. I'm never going to quit drinking," would you have left, then?
Or would you, as I did, think "I don't know what I'd do financially - we have built something of a life - what about the house?-" etc., etc., etc. Because I'd probably been married the same amount of time as you are now when my husband said something like that to me. I stayed until the bitter end. I don't recommend it to others. Honestly it sounds like you'd have made the same decision as I did, hoping for change.
Hope is often disappointment deferred.
If he had come out and said, "This is as good as it gets. I'm never going to quit drinking," would you have left, then?
Or would you, as I did, think "I don't know what I'd do financially - we have built something of a life - what about the house?-" etc., etc., etc. Because I'd probably been married the same amount of time as you are now when my husband said something like that to me. I stayed until the bitter end. I don't recommend it to others. Honestly it sounds like you'd have made the same decision as I did, hoping for change.
Hope is often disappointment deferred.
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Originally Posted by velma929
I suspect that almost every addict has a secret desire: to be able to control her/his use and live a somewhat normal life and never completely give up the first love, the drug. Even if someone could coalesce that thought in his head, coming out and saying it would demonstrate what a huge problem he already had.
If he had come out and said, "This is as good as it gets. I'm never going to quit drinking," would you have left, then?
Or would you, as I did, think "I don't know what I'd do financially - we have built something of a life - what about the house?-" etc., etc., etc. Because I'd probably been married the same amount of time as you are now when my husband said something like that to me. I stayed until the bitter end. I don't recommend it to others. Honestly it sounds like you'd have made the same decision as I did, hoping for change.
Hope is often disappointment deferred.
If he had come out and said, "This is as good as it gets. I'm never going to quit drinking," would you have left, then?
Or would you, as I did, think "I don't know what I'd do financially - we have built something of a life - what about the house?-" etc., etc., etc. Because I'd probably been married the same amount of time as you are now when my husband said something like that to me. I stayed until the bitter end. I don't recommend it to others. Honestly it sounds like you'd have made the same decision as I did, hoping for change.
Hope is often disappointment deferred.
. I have several close friendships that I have had for years with women who all live within 30 minutes of me...and by the time he left I was already in therapy for almost a year with the same therapist. I only stayed because he was so open about "saying he was an alcoholic" and knew he needed to stop. I only stayed because of the amount of times he cried saying he knows alcohol will kill him ... I am not hoping for change... he is gone... living 2,000 miles away. I haven't asked for him to come home and I filed for divorce.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,639
Originally Posted by LovelyKaya33333
If that is his truth...I deserved his truth instead of his lies... I did not deserve to be put in these positions. So with all due respect HIS truth put our family in danger... so my new with the information I now know is to tell him the **** off...
Doesn't really matter if he was/is in denial or just wanted to manipulate the situation to his advantage, you got hurt and that's terrible.
How are you doing now?
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Originally Posted by trailmix
Yes, he could have, really should have. You deserved the truth. I think in many cases the alcoholic is in denial and think they will attempt sobriety (in some fashion). But it is a game of denial (no excuses for him there).
Doesn't really matter if he was/is in denial or just wanted to manipulate the situation to his advantage, you got hurt and that's terrible.
How are you doing now?
Doesn't really matter if he was/is in denial or just wanted to manipulate the situation to his advantage, you got hurt and that's terrible.
How are you doing now?
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,639
Yes you sure are. It hurts for a while but the great thing is, as you go along in your healing, it gets better and better. And speaking of "better", you deserved and deserve so much better than this treatment, you know?
I like the wedding planner : )
I like the wedding planner : )
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Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Virginia
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Hi LK,
I'm glad you are getting better. Taking it one day at a time. Those good and bad feelings and memories will be with you the rest of your life. The bad ones do fade with time and get replaced with newer good ones. You will still have moments that bring you sadness. They will get farther and farther apart with each passing day. Just hang in their. Keep doing things that bring you happiness. Most of all keep being that strong person you have become. Have a great day!
I'm glad you are getting better. Taking it one day at a time. Those good and bad feelings and memories will be with you the rest of your life. The bad ones do fade with time and get replaced with newer good ones. You will still have moments that bring you sadness. They will get farther and farther apart with each passing day. Just hang in their. Keep doing things that bring you happiness. Most of all keep being that strong person you have become. Have a great day!
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
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Originally Posted by LovelyKaya33333
Trail mix. “He thought the chaos was somehow there before the drinking and the drinking helped him through it. I could never make him see it the other way”…. Yes yes yes. This is word for word how my AH feels. Thank you so much for your reply and also for validating that my wants in a marriage were way within reason. I really appreciated this
My late AH used to say he needed to drink to cope with his heart failure, neuropathy and all of the long list of diseases he had. These being the diseases caused by excessive drinking of alcohol. The diseases he died of.
You cannot get through that wall of solid granite denial they have. You cannot. They NEED this wall.
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Join Date: Apr 2017
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Originally Posted by LovelyKaya33333
his love for alcohol was greater than his love for me. It hurts to admit that but it is very true. What I am coming to terms with is that doesn't make me unlovable it just makes him an alcoholic...
sage
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by FallenAngelina
What I have come to understand is that alcoholics don't reject us when drinking is chosen. Alcoholics are choosing to deal with their deep well of pain the only way that they believe they can count on - getting buzzed and blotto. An alcoholic who chooses drink over loved ones is not rejecting loved ones, he is choosing the best pain management device he knows. That's how I've come to see it and how I've gotten myself out of the rejection trap.
Originally Posted by LovelyKaya33333
Thank you for this... yes his love for alcohol was greater than his love for me. It hurts to admit that but it is very true. What I am coming to terms with is that doesn't make me unlovable it just makes him an alcoholic... I know that in my head but in my heart it is hard
Duh! I needed to hear this truth today!
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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"Corresponding in a mirror image fashion to the addict's sense of unfair victimization by his significant others may be the rising self-pity, resentment and outrage of those whose lives are repeatedly disturbed or disrupted by the addict's behavior. A downward spiral commences of reciprocally reinforcing mistrust and resentment as once healthy and mutually supportive relationships begin to corrode under the toxic effects of the relentless addictive process.
As the addictive process claims more of the addict's self and lifeworld his addiction becomes his primary relationship to the detriment of all others. Strange as it sounds to speak of a bottle of alcohol, a drug, a gambling obsession or any other such compulsive behavior as a love object, this is precisely what goes on in advanced addictive illness. This means that in addiction there is always infidelity to other love objects such as spouses and other family - for the very existence of addiction signifies an allegiance that is at best divided and at worst -and more commonly- betrayed. For there comes a stage in every serious addiction at which the paramount attachment of the addict is to the addiction itself.
hose unfortunates who attempt to preserve a human relationship to individuals in the throes of progressive addiction almost always sense their own secondary "less than" status in relation to the addiction - and despite the addict's passionate and indignant denials of this reality, they are right: the addict does indeed love his addiction more than he loves them.
Addiction protects and augments itself by means of a bodyguard of lies, distortions and evasions that taken together amount to a full scale assault upon consensual reality. Because addiction involves irrational and unhealthy thinking and behavior, its presence results in cognitive dissonance both within the addict himself and in the intersubjective realm of ongoing personal relationships".
http://www.bma-wellness.com/papers/A..._Lies_Rel.html
As the addictive process claims more of the addict's self and lifeworld his addiction becomes his primary relationship to the detriment of all others. Strange as it sounds to speak of a bottle of alcohol, a drug, a gambling obsession or any other such compulsive behavior as a love object, this is precisely what goes on in advanced addictive illness. This means that in addiction there is always infidelity to other love objects such as spouses and other family - for the very existence of addiction signifies an allegiance that is at best divided and at worst -and more commonly- betrayed. For there comes a stage in every serious addiction at which the paramount attachment of the addict is to the addiction itself.
hose unfortunates who attempt to preserve a human relationship to individuals in the throes of progressive addiction almost always sense their own secondary "less than" status in relation to the addiction - and despite the addict's passionate and indignant denials of this reality, they are right: the addict does indeed love his addiction more than he loves them.
Addiction protects and augments itself by means of a bodyguard of lies, distortions and evasions that taken together amount to a full scale assault upon consensual reality. Because addiction involves irrational and unhealthy thinking and behavior, its presence results in cognitive dissonance both within the addict himself and in the intersubjective realm of ongoing personal relationships".
http://www.bma-wellness.com/papers/A..._Lies_Rel.html
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