comewhatmay

I am not sure how you can get past this in a positive way. Okay, first things first: By asking her to be open will not resolve the issue and make you trust her. Even if you have all passwords in the world, you cannot prevent the other person doing what they want to do. What she's done is not about you, its about her, about what she wants. Trying to control her behavior is all but pointless.

Faith and trust is something that has to be earned but once lost is lost. I know its not what you want to hear, and I applaud you for having good intentions, but just remember every (and I mean every) time she's on the phone, your mind is going to go back there. You'll always be suspicious, and long term that behavior is toxic and exhausting. Be wise and think with your head and not your heart. Good luck.

Eauchiche

In AA, they say that alcoholism is a spiritual problem. I believe that codependency is also. In my worldview as a Catholic Christian, this takes on amazing implications. Some of our priest exorcists have given talks on Youtube about people who got possessed just because they are alcoholics.

If you focus on your kids and your own recovery, you will be fine. Part of my own recovery has involved taking a very hard, honest look at why I was attracted to certain people. The ones I have historically been attracted to have all been alcoholics.

Recovery involves a "re-wiring" job in our own heads and hearts.

All the best to you and your kids, friend. We are here to support you.

Bernadette

This is all the clarity you need right here.

Protect your children first, and of course your own heart.

Yes, she may spiral down, all of the addicts we love do...and the famous saying which you perfectly pictured is, "Let Go or Be Dragged."

I think the false idea we get is that by staying involved with an addict we will somehow help them or prevent that drowning. And in so doing we will prevent the great heartache and guilt we will feel if they get worse without us in their lives. Humans get in lots of trouble (including becoming addicts!) when we believe we can avoid grief in some way, or when we believe we are powerful over other people and can change them.

The reality is that another person's recovery is really beyond our scope and is all on them. 100%. If this is how this woman behaves in rehab, and knowing what we all know on here statistically about addiction, I would say chances are very high that you will be in for a terrible, heartbreaking, lonely, and frustrating ride in this relationship. Not to mention the damage it will do to your kids to be influenced by the dynamic addiction brings to the household (read around the Adult Children of A's forum :-( on here).

The past is gone. You are free in this moment.

Peace,
B

trailmix

Yes, you are certainly well grounded about this. i know it's really hard, it hurtful!

Yes, you don't want to be the accounts police.

Being conflicted about wanting to talk about getting back on track. Well, those may be her ideas and she is, of course, entitled to them. Of course that doesn't mean those are your ideas. I would, personally, be very, very specific with her about how this is going to go for the time being. That she can't move back in, that in your opinion sober living seems like a great option for her recovery and that you can review all that after say, six months.

She was in rehab before, she's just had another stint but as you know, rehab is not a cure-all. It's a start only, and intro to being sober, starting recovery. She will either stay the course or not but you have no idea what that will be right now.

Trust will be earned over time by actions, not words. She is where she says she will be, she does what she says she will do. If you plan something, she's there - she is reliable, caring.

As you are deployed are the children with their Mother and therefore your gf would be at your house alone?

Being out of the country, I have a recommendation, I would have the locks changed on your house now. Perhaps they could leave the new keys with your ex-wife?

seekingcalm

Case, there have been many wonderful comments on this post, and I am glad that you are committed to putting your children first.
I just want to add my own experience for what it's worth. I left my alcoholic boyfriend and kept him out of my life for over a year...left him to his recovery, and took care of myself and my children. He was serious about his recovery and about me, and after a year...we began to date again...no living together. We finally did move in together a few years after that, and we now have a wonderful life together. He now has 11 years of recovery. It can happen, and I am forever grateful for the time I gave myself. He loved me and himself enough to respect my boundaries, and to do the work to make his life better in so many ways.
Leave your girlfriend to her recovery or lack thereof...the merry-go-round life with an active alcoholic is just awful, and will hurt you and your children for years to come!
Stay strong...tell her no...if she is serious about you and about recovery...it will be revealed by her actions over time...a long time.

case762

I'm currently suffering from the effects of a common mental disorder found mostly among humans: Compassion. If I turn her out for this incident, she has nowhere to go, will most likely relapse and I'll have to watch this disaster while she gathers up the physical remains of her life that she has built under my roof. I know it's not the objective thing to say, but it's too much for me to watch. Is there any way to compromise and allow her back in the home but give it a trial period of say, a year, where she is doing regular meetings and therapy sessions individually, and maybe as a couple? I know I could use some time with a therapist to work out the feelings I've had about being involved in this whole process, and I'd like to do that both individually and with her in the room so maybe she can confront the damage she's done. Can I still provide for her while somehow isolating her so that she can do as much of this recovery on her own? She's a flight attendant, whose on leave for this. There is no way on god's green earth she can return to that job and be successful in her recovery. And she wants to quit because she knows that. Maybe that's a good sign she's committed, despite the recent setbacks. If I turn her out, she'll go back to that job because she needs the income, and I guarantee her recovery will fail.

I mean, setbacks are part of this, right? This was a setback. I have to protect my kids first, and I'm racking my brain how I can do that while not signing her death warrant. And don't addicts need support? I'm pretty much it in her life. I know what I'm saying probably sounds foolish to the objective observer. But is there a way to provide the strength she needs from someone who loves her while keeping her recovery isolated and my kids safe?

SparkleKitty

In my opinion, there is no way to “isolate” her recovery from your kids if they live in the same house with her.

There is a very fine line between what you are calling compassion and what I would call enabling.

She is likely more resilient and resourceful than you believe. Most addicts are. Recovery is an inside job, and if you provide a soft place to land, her motivation to get there might go out the window. She doesn’t need to be pampered into recovery; she needs to understand that her life and everything in it that is important to her is on the line. Maybe if you allow her the dignity of figuring this out on her own, she will blossom into the kind of person that it is healthy to be in a relationship with and expose your kids to.

it’s tempting to believe that we are the only thing that can save them. But that is part of *our* addiction, not their recovery.

mylifeismine

".........while not signing her death warrant".

We can not cause it
we can not cure it
we can not control it

We do not have that kind of power over someone, we simply don't. Thinking we do
causes tremendous grief, sorrow and pain for ourselves and our children. And some
would say is an ego trip for us.

Has she no family for support? She has behaved so poorly and treated you with such
disrespect, I would want to see actions - for a year - showing she has committed to
recovery and can be a kind, respectful, honest and loving partner.

Compassion is wonderful, but what about compassion for you and your children?
You deserve compassion too. Ask any addict in true recovery - any and all
excuses, no matter how absurd, can be used to justify relapse.

Ariesagain

I see that you’re doing exactly I was going to suggest…reading other threads on this board. The people here are much like you…wonderful, compassionate people who just want to help. Honestly, you won’t find a better bunch anywhere.

The problem is that all of those wonderful qualities…compassion, empathy, kindness…can lead us right into trying to fix other people’s problems. Especially people we love. And we’ll put up with a ton of crap if we can tell ourselves we’re helping. (For example: would you put up with her cheating on you with anyone, let alone some sketchy felon, if she weren’t an alcoholic?)

The single hardest thing to come to terms with is the reality that we can’t fix a problem that is strictly an inside job. They have to own it. And many times, being “supportive” just means they don’t have to own it for a little bit longer.

You say she would “have to” go back to being a flight attendant. There are other jobs, yes? I would think the airline, in particular, given that they’ve funded her rehab leave twice, IIRC, wouldn’t want her in that position anymore. It’s a lot more than just serving people drinks at 30,000 feet, as you know. Flight attendants are responsible for passenger safety and that’s a major responsibility. They may suggest another, less crucial position, like gate agent.

Or she could, like many, many people do, find another job, yes?

I hope you’ll keep reading here and see how very common your situation is and how many lovely people struggle for so long to make things different for someone else. I would particularly suggest you read posts by Woodland Lost and HardLessons…(I hope you guys don’t mind my mentioning you). They’re both like you…responsible, hard-working good guys who loved an addict and spent many years in that struggle. You may find wisdom in their experiences.

If she comes back into your home, it is more than likely to be more of the same. You might want to research tenant laws in your state, because in some places, getting someone out who has lived there for some time is almost impossible. Plot out the scenarios and see what your consequences might be, yes? Here’s one to think about: she comes back, things are bad…and she gets pregnant. What then?

Ultimately, this is your decision. But best to make that decision on the most educated basis possible, yes?

And above all, your kids come first. The can’t be subjected to living with the drama of active alcoholism in place where they need to feel safe.

Wishing you well…

seekingcalm

Case, you are not that powerful, none of us is that powerful. It is only in the desire to get better, that she will do whatever it takes to be healthy and sober. You cannot do anything to help...you cannot do anything to make it worse. You can only do what is good for you and for your children, and in doing so, you leave your girlfriend with only herself to deal with her choices, and live with her consequences. Alcoholics who are not following a serious program of recovery will say and do anything to get what they want, and they don't care about anyone else. They are simply not able to. You cannot save her, but you can save yourself, and your young children. It's going to be ok. Stay strong.

There was a moment when I had left my alcoholic boyfriend and he texted me and said that he had nothing to live for....and I took a deep breath, and I replied, "Call your sponsor...he can help you. I cannot." And he did, and it was days later that he began his journey of recovery in earnest for the first time. I knew that if I tried to save him, I would certainly lose myself, and that I would only be prolonging the beginning of any recovery he might have.

I wish you the best, and I hope you will continue to read and share. We all know how hard this is, and how painful, and we are here to support each other.

trailmix

There are many adults of alcoholic parents here, there is a forum for them as well. I am one of them. I'm no victim but I did have an alcoholic Father. I can't imagine if my Mother had been the drinker instead (or gf/bf of either).

I'll try to nutshell this. When you bring someone as erratic in to a child's life, you bring chaos and fear in to their lives. You either get people walking on eggshells or you get people who resent you, I know you don't want either scenario for your children and yourself. They will watch you in this dysfunctional relationship, accepting poor treatment, in fact doing everything in your power to hold it together. What does that show them? Now, children don't necessarily copy their parents as such, but they do see that in a relationship you can take much more damage and abuse than is considered normal (which they won't know because they won't be seeing that - and haven't seen that yet).

It's all too shifting sands, unreliable, no idea where this is going for children.

You have the option of walking out the door, they don't, you are their sole protector (well their Mother too of course), if they can't count on you then what?

Now for me, my Father was absent for work a lot and my Mother didn't drink and there were a lot of other factors that helped, but if you are truly wanting to put your children first, you will not have her moving back in right away, that's the truth.

What if she relapses? Will you have her move out then? What if she has no place to go then? Do you put her out on the street at that point? I mean relapse could happen 5 years down the road, so I'm not saying you should cut her out of your life, that's your call, of course, I'm just saying that you want to give everyone, her, your children and yourself the best chance possible for her to get in to real recovery.

Why would she be homeless? What happened to the sober house?

You posted only 5 days ago and said that "the other day" you had logged in and seen all her "passionate" posts. Then she lied to you and told you he was gay. Then they got together and decided to tell you he was leaving Today (Tuesday), another lie.

Now 5 days later you are thinking of having her back in your home around your children. As other's mentioned, that's not compassion, that's enabling. You are going to save her in spite of what you know?

You also mentioned:

If you really look at that, does that sound like someone in true recovery? She is defending, to you, the guy she is cheating on you with.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, it's not intended that way.

FallenAngelina

There is NO WAY for you to provide the strength she needs.
There is NO WAY that you can protect children from an addict who lives with them.


Everything you're talking about isn't really compassion, it's codependence. Do you have support and addiction education for yourself?

TropicalWinter

Quoting for emphasis. This is what it boils down to.

dandylion

case......consider this fact that is known by those who are familiar with the alcoholic side of the recovery issue-----If she were ever to commit herself wholehartedly to a program of recovery (she doesn't sound like she is there, yet)-----the "strength" that you are referring to will come from another place(s). It will come from her fellow AA members ---,most probably from other female members---and, her sponsor---and, fro other professionals who may be working with her---such as her therapist and and psychiatrist and social workers, etc.
The reason for this is that an alcoholic can hear a message from another alcoholic that they will never open their ears to a loved one. The alcoholic will automatically see the loved one as the "Enemy"---the one who has interfered with their ability to drink when , where an how much they want. They harbor deep resentments towards the loved ones...because the loved ones have probably criticised their drinking--called them out on it--fought with them in many ways to get them to give up their friend---the drink. They usually feel judges and criticised and controlled by the loved one. Most all alcoholics feel deep shame and guilt, deep down. and the loved ones criticism of their drinking only serves to push that wedge even deeper. They usually feel isolated and lonely and hopeless as their disease takes over more and more of their life.
I
It is different with the AA or program members---in that recovery community, they recieve immediately, what they need so badly----complete acceptance, no judgement, . and the kind of companionship that cuts through the lonliness, shame, guilt, and offers hope to replace their helplessness and hopelessness over their disease.

The loved one can never offer all this to thee alcoholic, because the loved one is too close to the alcoholic and has usually been terribly hurt and damaged by the alcoholic.

Another very important point, in my opinion.
Growing up, we have heard certain lessons---certain "truths"---about how to function in relationships. We are taught these lessons from our families, our schools, our churches, our various organizations, and out culture, in general, They are pretty good rules and they tend to work pretty well when we practice them.
The one thing that we are almost NEVER TAUGHT, is this---there are two situations when the usual rules for healthy functioning relationships do NOT apply.
Those two situations are with addiction and abuse. Those two--addiction and abuse---turn all the usual rules completely topsy turvy!
What may be truly helpful and supportive in a non addictive relationship---may be considered enabling and all wrong for dealing with the addict/alcoholic.
Who knew?!!

AlwaysGrowing

case
We are not GOD. We do not have that kind of power over someone. YOU DO have the choice of letting them be an adult and not milking their way to death. Oh! You and your kids will be taken down that horrid journey of Alcoholism. It's not pretty and they will learn it's ok for that behavior or better yet mimic that. Maybe I've been around awhile and seen the carnage time after time. Please let her go and not be run over by that 5 ton.

Praying for you.

AG

trailmix

I just wanted to say that I'm sure this is overwhelming for you. You know, regardless of what you decide, you will find support here.

comewhatmay

Case, don't prioritize her over your kids and yourself. You can't help her, only she can fix her problems when 100% ready. Those who have lived with active alcoholics or anyone struggling with addiction have been deeply affected by the experience. I'd think twice before subjecting your kids to this. Children are entitled to good parenting and a safe home environment free of addiction. The tragedy of your girlfriend's self-centered addiction will hang over your children's lives like a dark cloud if she moves in. If this offends you, I’m sorry. I have been there, and I have felt the hurt that living with an addicted loved one can cause. I hope that this will cut me a little slack.

Let her take the consequences of her actions. Find an Al-Anon meeting and talk to other people who have dealt with their loved ones alcoholism. Believe me, alcoholism can take over not only the life and sanity of the alcoholic but also of their loved ones. The best thing you can do is to take care of yourself. It isn't easy. It doesn't feel right. But it is the right thing to do. Best wishes.

HardLessons

Case

This is from your post in another thread " I forced her into rehab and held down the fort for her, hoping I'd get to experience life with the "new her."

Possibly you know by now, you cant force an addict into sobriety & a life of recovery. They either choose that path of their own free will or it just doesnt work. How do you even know you would like a "new her". Addicts dont like being forced into doing anything they dont want to do.

You forced & she went off to inpatient rehab. While there she was forced to stop drinking alcohol. So what did she do - she picked up on super feel good sex activity. You only found out because you logged into her Imessenger & saw what was going on. When you confronted her she lied. Then her & her feel good sex buddy conspired & lied more. From there it all turned into a circus. God only knows exactly what all shes been doing & with whom (s). This is not rehab or recovery.

You think you can control this situation. In reality you cant. You have no control. The tools & skills which made you successful in career / business dont work in the world of addiction. I learned that lesson the hard way. I thought I could easily help this girl I met. How hard could it be? At the time, I had no clue what I was dealing with. I had no clue how powerful, crazy & utterly destructive addiction can be. I had to literally crawl away.

wehav2day

Case, there is so much good advice on here.

Sparkle kitty in particular is really nailing it!

as a recovering alkie myself, I can’t help but alternately feel gratitude for people like you (and my own spouse) for wishing to love her through this, and screaming RUN!!!

Here’s why: addiction turns us into assholes. Normally good people lie, lie and lie some more to protect our addiction. We don’t generally become addicts or alcoholics because we’ve had some fabulous charmed life. Most of us experienced trauma in our childhood, often coupled with either generational addiction and or no support on coping with said trauma.

All that tends to make us sympathetic figures, so good people like you and so many on this forum want to help us.

the thing is... you can’t. We HAVE TO HELP OURSELVES.

we have to want recovery more than we want to drink. Which is kind of trite, most of us don’t want do drink like we do or did. We just don’t see another way out of our own heads.

as others have pointed out, I really don’t think your agf is in recovery. She’s in a center, but she’s not doing any of the work. At this point, she MAY have stopped cheating on you. That’s hardly recovery. It’s simply a maybe that she’s stopped an addiction swap. At best, she’s at square one.

is that good enough? she’s at the very very beginning of a very long and difficult (but very liberating). If she’s ready to be on it.

if she’s not willing or able to respect your boundaries or timeline, she’s still stuck. Whether she’s drinking nor not.

the hallmarks of recovery are honesty, openness, and willingness. Honesty with self and others, especially loved ones. Not necessarily password sharing, as being honest enough that password sharing isn’t a thing. If that makes any sense. Openness. And willingness to do whatever it takes. To get her life on track and to be a trustworthy person again.

take care, and the best of luck to you and your children

case762

Thank you for all the comments. This group has been such a blessing. They always say the people you meet on the internet are phony or tell you what you want to hear but that's not the case here. You all have told me not what I WANT to hear, but what I NEED to hear. Thank you for all your support and the real talk.