Forevertoolong

Thank-you for the replies. It really really hurts. I now just feel like i have this pit of sadness in the bottom of my stomach. It is almost a knowing that the end is inevitable.

He keeps saying the joy of parenthood versus the pain just doesn't add up - he likens it to "having a bad pet". I would laugh if it wasn't so friggin sad.

I am thinking back over eveything and I probably did neglect him - but I had three children under 4! And he was reacting to that chaos by escaping to the pub, so I wasn't exactly feeling loving towards him and wanting to make him feel good and make him a priority when he was either coming home drunk or late.

One of our children suffers anxiety and he butts heads constantly with this child, the other two are "great and easy" he says but he finds it really hard to deal with the other one. It is like he resents him. One day recently, said child didn't want to come out for a family walk, he pushed back at my AH saying he didn't want to come and he and my husband had words. Eventually we all went out on the walk and said child perked up and enjoyed it, but AH ignored him the whole walk - walked ahead etc and didn't talk to this child at all. My heart just broke, imagine your father treating you that way. When I brought it up later, he said "he doesn't get to act like that and then have me be all chummy with him". And when I bring these things up he sees it as me "attacking him" - this has all apprently led to him unhappiness today.

Also during isolation two of the kids were in the bath, it got full and they were playing and it over-flowed a bit. AH LOST IT. Called them f'ing idiots etc ranted and raved. I cleaned it up and told the boys not to worry etc you were just having fun, then he lost it at me for not backing him up. I didn't talk to him for 24 hours and he couldn't see why I might have been upset.
This is what he sees as me not being on the same page.

As I write all this I wonder why I am not strong enough to tell him to get out.

Why do I overlook all of these things? Why am I so god damned scared to make a very difficult call? I think I blame myself for it. If I had not got grumpy at him all the times he came home late from the pub.

If I hadn't made comments about his eating after he put on all the weight and was snoring and the doctor told him to lose weight (he eats as well as drinks his emotions). If I had just let him parent and backed him up and then discussed it with him later instead of undermining him in front of the kids.

But I can't change any of it.

What is there to salvage?

I feel so sick.

Eauchiche

My answer to your original question will seem extreme to many others here, but this is my belief after 6-1/2 years sober.

I don’t believe that alcohol is good for anybody.

I wish there were still prohibition in the US.

I don’t think anyone should drink at any time, alone or with anyone else.

schnappi99

The AA's sometimes say "the same mind will drink again"- meaning if he's holding off drinking to prove a point it is very likely he will go back to it. Whatever the alcohol is doing for him has not been replaced, or healed, or whatever'ed- so its a hole inside the keeps on gnawing. My mother periodically binges- could be months even many months, then all h3ll breaks loose... she's older now and living in a retirement center so the binges have meant getting a call that she fell and is in the hospital. Once she had fallen so often she had blood on the brain and needed surgery to relieve it- and despite probably a half dozen events that we know about, with the paramedics informing us of the alcohol on her breath, she will never admit to having an alcohol problem or talk about it.

You may wait a long time for a change or explanation. The alternative is to find out what you want to do, how you want to live and take some steps such as boundaries. Grown-a$$ men are supposed to handle their own stuff. Yep all that "bring in money and now I'm not a priority stuff" is the pity party, trying to manipulate you into giving him what he wants. I am qualified to say it because I did exactly that before getting into recovery, and I've never had an alcohol problem. In the old days I was very resentful of having children pushed at me because I was comfortable, and I wanted things to stay that way. Not being aware of it, I instinctively manipulated. It took close work with my alanon sponsor to get clarity on my behavior- what I thought was introspection frequently turned out to be self-serving opinions I repeated to myself often enough to seem like truth.

My wife is now not drinking as far as I can tell- I chose to stop as well, to see what my relationship with alcohol was. Turns out it really doesn't add much to life, I will have a sip of the stuff when the boozehounds at work have a happy hour, or some of a beer on occasion but its not something of interest. I've had a glass of wine or so in front of her on a few occasions. At first I was concerned about it, but if she drinks again or not its entirely her choice so its not something I think about these days. My business is to constantly hone and correct my boundaries, not as tripwires related to her behavior but as to mine; is my conduct acceptable, is it loving, is it service. Her behavior is her business. My sole boundary with respect to her is that if the old alcohol abuse behavior comes back then we are done; she leaves or I leave with our daughter and consequences be damned.

FWN

[/QUOTE]Not being aware of it, I instinctively manipulated. It took close work with my alanon sponsor to get clarity on my behavior- what I thought was introspection frequently turned out to be self-serving opinions I repeated to myself often enough to seem like truth.
.[/QUOTE]

So sorry to hijack the thread here, but would you mind elaborating here? What exactly you mean?

schnappi99

No sweat After I was in Alanon for a couple months it became pretty clear that the Steps are where the action is, and I was feeling pretty bad so I found a sponsor (watched the other men in the meetings, made a short list of those who talked about how the program changed them). He asked me to start working from the Alanon Blueprint for Progress- one of the 4th Step workbooks. It took about 6 months to work through it enough for a 5th Step which I took with him.

The format of the book is a series of introspective questions on various topics; self-worth, honesty, relationships and many others. The 1st section was on self-worth, and one of the 1st questions was "How do you protect yourself". It took me a long time to answer that one. Obviously its not 'start carrying a pistol', because that might protect you physically but it won't protect you emotionally or spiritually- and what does emotional protection look like anyway?

Self-serving opinions were the things that made answering the question difficult. I liked to think I was independent, the weird kid who read lots of philosophy books and got smart, interested in everything and always ready to debate and (privately) smarter than you anyway. Note the self-narrative, reinforced by every book, every tough problem solved, every clever quip that I could produce even in fun- its a self-reinforcing behavior. I eventually produced an answer to that question that I was satisfied with by not being independent and well-read and solitary in books- but by talking to others in Alanon.

When the book got to relationships, I made the list of the girlfriends, what happened, with my wife and what happened. I had never made a list like that, instead recalling in isolation, nursing guilt privately- another self-reinforcing behavior. Looking my sponsor in the eye and reading what I wrote removed a lot of morbid guilt; yes I had done emotional harm which I avow, but that does not make me a pariah. My sponsor is big on living amends- amending one's own behavior right here, right now. So that was his instruction; make amends to the girlfriend of 25 years ago by amending my behavior to my wife now. In my head there was previously no connection.

LilyLady1

In response to the original question about drinking or not, here is my experience. I am on day 59 of abstinence from alcohol. When I was drinking, I drank white or sparkling wine or diet coke with either vodka or Capt. Morgan. My husband drinks daily at home. In the cabinet and fridge there are several types of alcoholic beverages I don't like and didn't drink (beer, bourbon, scotch), and there is a bottle of vodka in the freezer. None of it, not even the vodka, is speaking to me or causing me any issues. If it were a problem, I would ask him to place it elsewhere in the house where I wouldn't see it all the time (it's in the kitchen), but I would not ask him to remove it or stop drinking. I am solely responsible for my consumption.

Forevertoolong

Thanks all for replying. It’s been 3.5 weeks now and still no drinking. No issues at all in terms of withdrawal etc. he’s doing it easily. He’s an extremely strong willed person. BUT he has alluded to it being to prove to himself and to me that he’s not an AH. He said that he just wishes I’d sit out the back with him and drink and smoke, but I’m not that person. His words.

I was feeling positive because hes not drinking and getting professional help, but I feel it’s more to ease his guilt than for me... he said he can’t look at me and love me at the moment as I’ve been “telling him what to do and nobody likes being told what to do”.

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that it was an incompatibility issue and I’m starting to agree. He wants me to drink more I want him to drink less.

All I know is that I’m desperately unhappy in my marriage and I’ve never felt so alone.

velma929

I am sorry you're going through this. I've been through the same, and it was the lowest point in my life. I did decide to stay, and being able to detach was helpful. You're in my thoughts and prayers.

mylifeismine

I see a compatibility issue- he lacks maturity.
We have no control over others- not to make them behave maturely,
or to make them stop drinking. We also can't make them see any
character flaws they don't want to "see". To me the sad part is that
many relationships aren't tested until children come into the picture
and then you see how your spouse handles sacrificing for the kids
and putting his needs after others. For an alcoholic, that means
drinking more, sulking, and taking on victim status, and blaming
everything and anyone for their unhappiness.

mylifeismine

One of the important skills in a relationship that is crushed with active addiction
is being able to resolve an issue instead of arguing senselessly about it. For me,
it was a turning point in knowing if my RAH could actually DO something different
instead of quack about it. For example, there was too much criticism in our house
(our children are grown but definitely affected by the alcoholism) . I had a discussion
with then still drinking AH about it and asked him if he thought we could do things
differently. No more critical attacks, but instead a discussion about how to change
something. Like if things were "too cluttered" in the house - no criticism, but pick
up a few things yourself. I didn't say anything about his drinking (detachment).
I asked him to stop apologizing for things he did when drunk- told him it didn't mean
anything to me anymore- he stopped. He also had to keep his apology to himself and
sit with it. It was hard at first, but eventually we were able to resolve some important
issues and that was good.

Having 3 kids under 4 is very challenging for sure, and requires everything a parent
has to give for the first few years!

Forevertoolong

Thank you so much. All of the comments help me to get perspective. I am so sad. Today he said that he “really misses the girl he married, she was so much fun” apparently growing up and taking responsibility makes me less loveable. Don’t get me wrong I am fully aware of how I’ve contributed to this toxic situation (I.e always getting on his case), but I was so frustrated that he was shirking his responsibilities and wanting/choosing not to be there for me/us. Maybe I should have just accepted that it was important for him to go and get wasted semi-frequently and let him be? Who am I to tell him how to live?!

He Says he’s thinking about how much of himself he’s prepared to forego for me. I know he’s referring to freedom/partying etc. I find it astonishing that this is even a thing! Then I start questioning whether maybe I’m a ball buster and have unrealistic expectations. I do have abandonment issues (Grew up in large family with a mum who was emotionally distant/absent due to being spread too thin and hang ups from her own mum). I know this has exacerbated my emotional reactions to him escaping/drinking. I guess I’m questioning whether a big part of this is me.

Marriage and young kids is hard, but we have it all- why aren’t we happy. This truly is the most horrible feeling. Part of me wants to make the call just to have a conclusion but I simply can’t do it to the kids, nor can I afford it. But my heart is broken.

trailmix

How could it not be, those are some pretty brutal truths. Yes "truths" because they are his truth.

You know, I married quite young and my ex also drank a lot, I drank on weekends, we had fun. Even after we were married we would buy some beer occasionally and drink at home. It never occurred to me at the time that he might have a problem with drinking or that he might be an alcoholic, but when I read stories here I think, hey that could have happened.

It didn't. After my Son was born the party toned way down. My ex was not an alcoholic (thankfully) and as we went along drinking just became less and less of a thing, things were centered around doing things with my family and, of course, as a family unit.

I think many consider this is how it will happen, I mean isn't that normal? Well we think it is for sure. But what if that isn't normal for the other person? As seems to be the case with your Husband. What if he thought he would just carry on as normal, why does the party have to stop after all?

It's hurtful but it has nothing to do with you, I hope you will really take that to heart. Had my ex ended up being a problem drinker or an alcoholic, is that my issue? Would my expectation that we would mature and act in the best interests of each other and our child be off base? If he had continued to drink and party, does that mean that I have some deficit? That I was not acting "fun" anymore? I just don't think so.

You have a way of being, that may not work for him and that is ok (painful and hurtful but ok). Again, there is nothing wrong with you. You two are on two different paths, doesn't mean you are the wicked fun killing witch you know?

Honestly it sounds like he would like to cut everyone loose and go off to the party. Please be prepared for this eventuality. Also, does he need to share all this with you on a regular basis? What is that accomplishing. Is he doing you some favour by keeping you aware that he could cut and run at any moment? That's no way for you to live. He needs to keep his own counsel in my opinion.

Financially he is responsible for the children as well. Perhaps since he is so happy to share his party thoughts with you it is time to sit down and have a reality check on what it will cost him monthly and where you all will live? That might be a productive conversation instead of him slinging out how un-fun you are every few days.

trailmix

I just read the replies by mylifeismine. Excellent thoughts and also another avenue for you to consider. Based on what your H is saying and as you are on two different paths, perhaps, if you REALLY don't want to/can't leave, is it an option to ignore his drinking? Detach, separate emotionally, find YOUR happiness?

Arguing about this unsolvable situation, with him wanting you to act one way and you wanting him to act another is a waste of your time really.

thequest

The As will do what they want when they want. I was never a big drinker and have cut down to almost nothing. The A still seems to break/tie his own numerical records for # of drinks with regularity if I'm around. His enabler and chief gf does what ever she wants partly out of defiance(they're both going to do what they want when they want). She used to be puzzled by my limited drinking now they rarely comment.

I wouldn't try bargaining or negotiating with them. Until they want to stop drinking on their own anything else is temporary or a show. And a show could lead to binge drinking later. They might substitute substances as well.

velma929

I didn't drink at home, but it never made any difference.
I suppose, if I was living with someone who was trying to quit, having an alcohol free environment might help. Thing is, it's legal. The addict can purchase whatever he or she wishes, the addict has to choose not to buy, or hang out in bars, or continue to fraternize with other people who don't do much in their free time but drink.

I have a friend who was a guard in a prison. He sometimes heard inmates preparing to be released say things like, "I'm never going back to ____town again." I asked, well, isn't that good? and he said, it's not enough. Not going back to XYZ home town isn't the trick, because the kind of people they chose for friends, those things they used to do, those bars they used to hang around; *those things are everywhere.*

I had a colleague who claimed to be a recovering alcoholic. (He drank the spiked eggnog at Christmas anyway) He had so-called friends come to visit. He was really irritated because they brought wine with them to drink themselves, and had wine when they dined out. The weird thing was, although he repeated "I'm recovering..." he never, while expressing his frustration, came right out and said, "It's too much temptation to be around booze" which would have made it clear exactly why it was a problem. I guess for some people it is, and some it isn't. I have no trouble refraining from alcohol if someone's religion forbids it, or if someone says it threatens his or her sobriety, but for heaven's sake, say so.

Weirdly, although peeved at his peers' drinking, his stepdaughters' drinking at their house was okay? I don't get it.