honeypig

Velma makes a really valid point about considering the financial aspects of being legally tied to someone who, to say the least, may make impaired and unsound decisions, like driving when drunk.

Like velma's A, my A almost never seemed actually drunk. Even when I noticed something "off", it was so slight that I could convince myself (or be convinced by him) that it was all in my head. I felt really stupid for not realizing what had been going on all those years and beat myself up about it quite a bit. And it was fuel for XAH's fire when we'd fight--"how bad can it be when you can't even TELL?!?"

A few months after we divorced, while he was down at the road getting the mail,he was clipped by some portion of a passing vehicle (or so we guess, he has no idea what happened) and was thrown across the driveway, breaking his elbow and 5 ribs and sustaining a concussion. He didn't realize he was that badly hurt (alcohol and shock, I imagine) and went back into the house to see if he'd feel better after lying down.

When I got back from work, he called me and I took him to the ER, where the various injuries were diagnosed, and he subsequently spent 3 days in the hospital for observation. That night in the ER, I learned what his BAC was at the time we went to the hospital. He'd told me he didn't drink any more after the accident, so I used an online calculator to walk back to what his BAC would have been at the time he was hit. It was at a level where a normal, non-habituated person would have been passed out.

I used the same calculator to see if he would have been clear of alcohol by the time he would have gone to work in the morning. Nope, he would have been legal to drive but still not clear of alcohol in his bloodstream. That's when it dawned on me that another part of my not recognizing when he'd been drinking was that I likely had not seen him fully sober in years. YEARS. Seems unbelievable, doesn't it?

We are not quite 5 years divorced now, and after some very rocky times, we've reached a detente. He retired last summer after inheriting a sum of money from his mom as well as being given another sum of money from a work friend who died w/o family. (You really can't make this stuff up!) He helps me out by stopping to let my dogs out daily while I'm at work, and helped a lot with yard work last summer. In return, I offer him some of whatever I've been cooking--soup, banana bread, casseroles--which sometimes he takes and sometimes not.

Just since last summer when he retired, he has gone downhill markedly. His hands shake and he's lost weight. He looks older. And he has very little strength or stamina any more, has to stop and rest after even moderate exertion. It's not pleasant to see, but at least this is by my choice. I can show compassion to the best of my ability b/c I'm not being directly affected by his actions. My auto insurance won't increase, my savings won't be drained, my house won't be lost to pay for his healthcare, and I won't spend the rest of my life struggling financially b/c of his actions. Of course there are no guarantees in life; all those things could happen to me anyway, but I'm doing what I can to slant the odds in my favor.

People might think this sounds cold, but I'd just ask that you re-read velma's post above, or search out her original posts about that situation. It's not fair that alcoholism should cost a person their security in retirement, or cost their kids a college education, but it can certainly happen. And this was just a civil suit. If it had been criminal, there could absolutely have been jail time too, not something most of us want to think about...

So as terrible as the emotional and spiritual toll can be, there are material things to consider also.

Maudcat

It’s not cold at all, HP. When dealing with addiction, it is truly “let go or be dragged.”
I recognize that my original post about my sib’s condition is grim, and that some other postings are as well.
And maybe the thread has strayed from the original “high functioning” query.
But...it’s also a testament to all posters’ telling their experiences, awful tho they may be, trying to inform.
What I am reading, loud and clear, from the posts, is that alcohol addiction IS a family disease.
It affects everyone, spouses, children, siblings, to greater and lesser degrees.
It’s heartbreaking, enraging, defeating at times.
Going back to OliviaLynn’s original post, no one can say with certainty that the situation is going to play out in a particular way.
Life isn’t like that.
All I can offer is how it is with me and my family, and sound a cautionary note based on my experience within my own FOO.
Wishing everyone the best.

Hawkeye13

I just wanted to add respectfully to OliviaLynn that your 19 year old son really is unable to make the "call" here about what is best for your family, especially your 12 year old daughter.

My brother is 8 years older than me, and the level of my mother's addiction when he was a teen was considerably less severe than what I ended up living with. In many ways, he had a different mother than I did.

Additionally, as stated above, it is a family disease. Your sons have a comfort level with your husband's drinking because they grew up with it. To them it is "normal" and any kind of change hence feels uncomfortable--so they want to keep the status quo.

However, it is clear from the DUI that in fact things are worsening, and the impact this is having on your 12 year old may be exponentially worse compared to the boys as she enters puberty if the drinking continues.

trailmix

No, I don't think you should, since you asked. Recovery is better left up to the alcoholic. This is about life on life's terms.

Yes, I realize all alcoholics are different, they are people after all.

My Father was an alcoholic all his life, he certainly didn't drink every day, in fact I have never known an alcoholic who does, although I am aware there are people who do.

velma929

As a matter of fact, I don't think anyone can help an alcoholic in the way you imply. It's an inside job. What we as bystanders can do is get out of the way and not enable.

If love and support were all that was needed to conquer addiction, none of us would be here.

MMD28

I realize that is the case with a lot of addicts, but my husband has been drinking 7 days a week for the past 32 years we have been married. He always says he can quit if he wanted to but that he doesn't want to because he enjoys it and it is relaxing. Something that occurred to me is that when we met, he was dabbling in drugs. I made it clear I wanted no part of that and he stopped but then substituted for alcohol. He feels like he has "obeyed my commands" or something and has deserved alcohol since I "made him" quit doing drugs.
He is forever a victim and an addict of substance.

Hawkeye13

So is this what you want in a life partner for the rest of your time on Earth?

Dramatic statement perhaps but you are 32 years in and he doesn’t have a problem with his drinking and therefore change is unlikely.

What do you want for your own life? Are you satisfied being the scapegoat for “limiting “ his lifestyle? Are you ready to pay the piper with him when the inevitable alcohol physical and mental degeneration gains speed?

That’s the important focus area. It’s very tough but stripped down, that is the truth of living with addiction long term.

MMD28

[QUOTE=Hawkeye13;7390512]So is this what you want in a life partner for the rest of your time on Earth?

Dramatic statement perhaps but you are 32 years in and he doesn’t have a problem with his drinking and therefore change is unlikely.

What do you want for your own life? Are you satisfied being the scapegoat for “limiting “ his lifestyle? Are you ready to pay the piper with him when the inevitable alcohol physical and mental degeneration gains speed?

That’s the important focus area. It’s very tough but stripped down, that is the truth of living with addiction long term.[/QUOTE

This is why it is so tough...we don't always see it coming..we make excuses..we think it is not as bad as it is...hubby worked a night shift for most of these 32 years and it wasn't as noticeable. I didn't see it until the weekend, and then it was "The Weekend" and everyone has fun on the weekend..etc...He wasn't one of those who demanded much out of life so I didn't notice the depth of it until he started a day shift 3 years back..It was then that it really hit me. Nobody is perfect, including myself. Sometimes, we just don't see what is in front of us.

August252015

HP's incredible story of self-preservation and incredible commitment to the big picture is something everyone should re-read til it begins to sink in. Thank you for sharing.

OliviaLynnMarsh

Hi guys, I can't tell you what a relief it is to be able to vent and hear perspectives here. I find it especially good to listen to opposing views so I can challenge my own thinking and really analyze my goals and decisions. I feel so much peace today. Who know s how long that will last but I'm enjoying it. My AH is seeing a professional addictions counselor as we speak. This guy also has experience in complex trauma so AH should be able to get some help and come to terms with his childhood. I feel happy with my decision to stay and support him I think a separation would be much more traumatic for the kids and us too. He is obviously taking it seriously as I know how difficult this therapy will be. My kids are seeing forgiveness and they're seeing a family member sometimes struggling, but that doesn't mean we give up on them. He's still a good dad who attends their sporting events most of the time, works hard for them, chats to them and is doing his best to stop drinking. If things go off the rails again, I'll have to reconsider but for now, I'm happy with this. My kids are completely safe and my husband seems ready to work at his problems. I would love to hear some positive stories where the drinker actually got sober and stayed that way.

honeypig

Truer words were never spoken, MMD. In my case, I didn't see it partly b/c he did work very hard to keep it hidden and did an astounding job of it. When the end was near and he told me about some of the things he did to keep the status quo, I was completely dumbfounded.

For instance, for quite some time he was supposedly going to AA meetings, but in reality was just driving into town and hanging out for an hour or so. He'd usually have some errands to do also, but would wait until after the meeting was over, so that if I checked the credit card receipts from the grocery store or the Farm & Fleet, I wouldn't see that the time was during the meeting he was pretending to be at. As if it would ever have occurred to me to check that...

Another time, we were out walking the dogs. We passed by a gas station that had recently been renovated, and just making small talk, I said "I haven't been in that station since they sold it and redid it, have you?" To be honest, I don't even remember what he answered. Much, much later, when he was in one of his confessional moods, he asked me if I remembered that conversation. I said, well, vaguely, I remember asking if you'd been in there since the redo. He then went on to tell me what had gone through his mind when I asked that casual question: Oh, does she know I was in there? Did she see me? Did she see a credit card receipt? No, I always used cash, or at least I think I did. If she didn't see me, is she going to ask me why I was there if I say yes, I'd been in? Will she think I was buying cigarettes? (He had a hidden smoking habit, too.) If she doesn't know that I was in there, then I should answer no. But what if she does know? Then if I say no, she'll ask why I'm lying--so I should say yes. But if I say yes, then what reason will I give for having gone in there?

Good lord, how EXHAUSTING to live like this! No wonder he seemed to not be present so much of the time. He was spending very nearly all his time and mental energy trying to keep every tiny detail of his "other" life secret and his lies in order, so there'd be no reason for me to question things. While he did tell me about this, he didn't say anything about wanting to change it. When I understood that this was his "normal", his everyday life, and that it was very deeply rooted, that was another big step on the way out the door for me.

The other part of the reason I didn't see what was right in front of me? I had a vested interest in NOT seeing. I didn't want to start over. I was afraid. And it took a long time for everything else to overpower the perceived benefits of not seeing...

MMD28

[[I][I]B] Thank you for understanding what I am trying to explain. It's just not easy when people have sneaky habits. For many years I had no reason to look for lies or sneaky behavior. He just wasn't that kind of guy that made me feel like I needed to be on the defense. Again, I just didn't take note. I was busy raising the kids, taking care of things. Hubby is an unassuming type of man who keeps to himself and doesn't get involved in too much. He is sort of in his own little bubble...never been close to his parents or siblings. I used to feel sorry for him. I realize he has felt sorry for himself throughout his life.

hearthealth

My husband was sober for 18 months. I was proud of him for not drinking even on his birthday. Then I found out he was living with a secret. He was still drinking and did not tell me.

August252015

"How EXHAUSTING to live like this" - honeypig

Everyone in my family was 99.9% spent in every way by the time I quit drinking. All of us.

That's how important this discussion is.

BUT. Another equally important point? Our stories don't have to include manslaughter, death, abuse, silent marriages decades long....they can be much less "severe" but just as destructive. This is a hard concept to wrap our heads around.

I've had 4 yrs sober and at 43, had a mom who drank from my age 11 to college, then relapsed when I was 28. She's sober now. Our family began the journey of "figuring all this out" decades ago. And it's been arduous. Big and small ways.

My husband is in recovery too, and grew up w/o immediate alcoholism present- or so he thought. No one mentioned that his brother (much older) had gone to rehab. We actually didn't learn it til last yr and we are both about 4 yr sober. Nor have they actually said that it's because he "drank too much" that his dad quit when he wanted to marry my MIL. His parents did and continue to live in a very self-absorbed scope that they imparted to him. He didn't have obvious trauma in his childhood as I did; we both had love and support in the ways our parents did, and mostly did well. That's how complicated people can be and this disease is.

I cannot emphasize enough that for the alcoholic, quantity or frequency or not in the morning or [insert anything here] make one of us less or more of an alcoholic. Nor can I emphasize enough that there are some degrees of impact on every family member, no matter what the behavior of the alcoholic.

Disengagement and silent politeness like my in-laws can be as impactful or damaging as the enmeshment and in a way "too much love" of my parents.

The good news? Everyone who needs to CAN stop drinking. Family CAN heal too. We all have resources available, from free to really expensive. And learning that each of us can figure out how to live the best life we possibly can - and I believe, grow immensely thru the process of honesty and healing - is a gift.

MMD28

[I] Just curious how he hid it? That is shocking, I am sure.

hearthealth

He got a dui and stopped drinking at bars. He drank at home from 4-6pm up to 12 cans of beer on his binges. I filed for divorce. He pleaded one more chance. I found out he started stopping off for a few after work. He had flexible hours would run errands after work. He told me "Good, I don't have to park the car behind the bar anymore." If they want to drink they will find a way. They can also appear to be sober when needs to be. He got a speeding ticket lately on his bar route. How the police officer didn't do a sobriety test I don't know.

FallenAngelina

I encourage you to do more reading, reflecting and participating so that you can move beyond the very limiting and painful concept of "giving up" on an alcoholic loved one. Whether it's in AlAnon, another program, your own therapy or here, it's very important that you work on expanding your confidence in your own needs, emotions, boundaries and values. There are many ways to live a fulfilling life without boxing ourselves into loyalty. I'm not quite sure how to explain it other than to encourage you to look deeper into the limiting concept of "giving up" on a loved one. We have so many more options than the two that many of us latch onto: "giving in" or "giving up."

August252015

^^^^Critical point.

What we model for our children is much more complicated than the ideas most of us have at some point of either "giving up" or "giving in."

Sometimes the reluctance to do what we think is giving up is more destructive than the position of making a change (ie of the family) - short v long term especially.

MMD28

Does anyone have a thought as to what the reason behind all this addiction is with their spouse/partner? Are they needy, selfish, sick..maybe all the above? Wonder what makes some people have the addictive personality and some not? Some are able to get control over it while others can't. Interesting to think about. I've said it before, but my hubby definitely plays the role of victim. He hangs his head and looks for pity. He was emotionally and sometimes physically abused by his father growing up; still, that was then, (and many years ago) and how does drinking in excess change it or make it better? Is it just an excuse? I do feel bad for what he has gone through, but cannot continue to allow him to destroy our lives over it. His father passed away several years ago and he's not in our lives and really never was. Again, I have said he is not a bad man--but he is a weak minded man overall. He has a hard time fitting with society and feels like he deserves a special pass or something. He leans on me way too much for common sense decisions that a man should be making without asking his wife. ..on the other hand, he able to drink and drive and not get caught...yet...I told him it's a matter of when, not if. Not sure if that is the alcohol is taking his mind over or what it is.

hearthealth

This is called enabling.My children are learning this is the way to live life.

I have many reasons why my husband drinks but knowing why won't fix him. He drinks because it is his way to live his life.