Families of High Functioning Alcoholics

Old 02-20-2020, 07:49 AM
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This is so true...alcoholism is not just about drinking too much too often. Alcoholism is a disease of behaviors that destroy relationships.
My ex-husband thinks our son just "hits it hard sometimes"...and is not always a nice person. I see a young man who is ruled by his addiction, who has become someone I no longer know. The drinking is just a part of it, and as has been said here...the real recovery takes years after that last drink...and continues for a lifetime.
In the beginning, I thought if only the drinking stopped, all would be well. It's a necessary first step, but doesn't solve all of the problems, and I have learned that when I do my part...and focus on my recovery from the effects of loving a person with this disease...I can breathe easier and feel better regardless of anything else.
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:51 AM
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MMD, much of what you mentioned above sounds very familiar to me. And that was another big step for me, when I realized that my A and his behaviors and the dysfunctional things I did to keep the peace and keep us together were NOT "special snowflake" things but very, very much the same as so many others who were married to an A. Once I saw that, I was able to look much more objectively at what was going on in our marriage and in my life, and eventually to make decisions about whether that was what I wanted.
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:58 AM
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OLM-There's no preventing this from getting worse. It just gradually does. Sometimes, it gets better then goes back to even worse. It's a vicious cycle. My AH has been so much better these past 3 weeks or so, but last night was a different story. It all started with that 1 beer that he ordered at dinner. That turned into 4 because the "glasses were way too small. They should sell beer in bigger glasses."! LOL. Then when we got home, he turned into that immature man-child that I despise only to continue with his beverage of choice.

You didn't Cause it. You can't Control it. You certainly can't Cure it. Remember those 3 C's. Very helpful for those in our situation. You'll drive yourself batty by trying to control the situation, even just trying to steer it in the direction that you want.

Functioning Alcoholic? What "Functioning" actually means varies depending on who you ask. What I've found is that "we" tend to gradually adjust our boundaries to the Alcoholic. It's okay for him to pass out 1 night a week on the couch. On the 2nd time in the week, maybe he was a little bit tired that day so it's an exception. Or maybe, he fell asleep during a movie so it surely doesn't count. Counseling for me has helped me with detachment.

I completely understand about the intimacy issue & having conversations with a body that has emptiness in his eyes. My AH told me that he wanted me to talk to him more. I told him that I gave that up years ago when I learned that #1-he couldn't actually carry on a conversation and #2-he wouldn't remember it anyways.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I empathize completely.
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by flower959 View Post
My AH told me that he wanted me to talk to him more. I told him that I gave that up years ago when I learned that #1-he couldn't actually carry on a conversation and #2-he wouldn't remember it anyways.
So many good comments in this thread. Flower brings up a really good issue here.

Notice her AH tells her that he wants her to talk to him more. Not, why don't we talk anymore? What's up with that, what is going on.

Just - I want this - so do it.

Alcoholism/addiction is a very selfish state of being. Pretty much everything revolves around the next drink, what time does the store open, how much should I buy, now I have it, do I have enough etc etc

That type of thinking doesn't leave much room for anything else really and when it does it is skewed anyway, as you mentioned.

No, there is nothing "normal" about scheduling, that's actually hurtful really.

It's difficult if not impossible to have a relationship with an A. How can you when their first allegiance is always to alcohol, not your relationship and not you.

You might find these articles interesting:

Addiction, Lies and Relationships

"Corresponding in a mirror image fashion to the addict's sense of unfair victimization by his significant others may be the rising self-pity, resentment and outrage of those whose lives are repeatedly disturbed or disrupted by the addict's behavior. A downward spiral commences of reciprocally reinforcing mistrust and resentment as once healthy and mutually supportive relationships begin to corrode under the toxic effects of the relentless addictive process.

As the addictive process claims more of the addict's self and lifeworld his addiction becomes his primary relationship to the detriment of all others. Strange as it sounds to speak of a bottle of alcohol, a drug, a gambling obsession or any other such compulsive behavior as a love object, this is precisely what goes on in advanced addictive illness. This means that in addiction there is always infidelity to other love objects such as spouses and other family - for the very existence of addiction signifies an allegiance that is at best divided and at worst -and more commonly- betrayed. For there comes a stage in every serious addiction at which the paramount attachment of the addict is to the addiction itself. Those unfortunates who attempt to preserve a human relationship to individuals in the throes of progressive addiction almost always sense their own secondary "less than" status in relation to the addiction - and despite the addict's passionate and indignant denials of this reality, they are right: the addict does indeed love his addiction more than he loves them".
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:37 AM
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[QUOTE=seekingcalm;7387144]This is so true...alcoholism is not just about drinking too much too often. Alcoholism is a disease of behaviors that destroy relationships.

So true! What do people do about it? It seems so one sided and selfish! In our relationship, Hubby wants me to do all the work and then he is shows up, as if his presence is my reward. The sad part is that I have been doing all the work for the past 32 years while he plays the role of "Poor me" while he wallows in his past. I can see why he needed me when we met, but I had no idea he was looking for someone to kiss his boo boos all through life. That is the mistake I made..being the strong one who made it all better and letting him think he didn't have to participate. Hindsight is 20 20, they say. Little did I really realize he needed a crutch like alcohol to get through life. I thought it was a phase young people go through. He is looking for that fix to get through life. Even sadder is that our oldest daughter is following in his footsteps. It is awful to see your children go down that road. I have made excuses too..she's in her late 20's and that's what you do, etc. She drinks way too much, way too often. I am looking like the bad guy trying to do my best to get them to see there is a pattern and a problem and that drinking does nothing to change life. It's awful. I can sympathize with you.
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
So many good comments in this thread. Flower brings up a really good issue here.

Notice her AH tells her that he wants her to talk to him more. Not, why don't we talk anymore? What's up with that, what is going on.

Just - I want this - so do it.

Alcoholism/addiction is a very selfish state of being. Pretty much everything revolves around the next drink, what time does the store open, how much should I buy, now I have it, do I have enough etc etc

That type of thinking doesn't leave much room for anything else really and when it does it is skewed anyway, as you mentioned.

No, there is nothing "normal" about scheduling, that's actually hurtful really.

It's difficult if not impossible to have a relationship with an A. How can you when their first allegiance is always to alcohol, not your relationship and not you.

You might find these articles interesting:

"Corresponding in a mirror image fashion to the addict's sense of unfair victimization by his significant others may be the rising self-pity, resentment and outrage of those whose lives are repeatedly disturbed or disrupted by the addict's behavior. A downward spiral commences of reciprocally reinforcing mistrust and resentment as once healthy and mutually supportive relationships begin to corrode under the toxic effects of the relentless addictive process.

As the addictive process claims more of the addict's self and lifeworld his addiction becomes his primary relationship to the detriment of all others. Strange as it sounds to speak of a bottle of alcohol, a drug, a gambling obsession or any other such compulsive behavior as a love object, this is precisely what goes on in advanced addictive illness. This means that in addiction there is always infidelity to other love objects such as spouses and other family - for the very existence of addiction signifies an allegiance that is at best divided and at worst -and more commonly- betrayed. For there comes a stage in every serious addiction at which the paramount attachment of the addict is to the addiction itself. Those unfortunates who attempt to preserve a human relationship to individuals in the throes of progressive addiction almost always sense their own secondary "less than" status in relation to the addiction - and despite the addict's passionate and indignant denials of this reality, they are right: the addict does indeed love his addiction more than he loves them".

Wow! Thank you.
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by OliviaLynnMarsh View Post
MMD28 I'm so sorry you're going through that. No one should have to deal with that. You need to take care of yourself. Do you have a support group or close friends that you can talk to? I have found the hypnosis tracks on youtube have given me confidence and inner strength to ask for what I need in my relationship. Luckily, my husband did as I asked and puts in effort, although his drinking is a separate issue. I highly recommend the self-love hypnosis stuff though.

Thank you..no, I really have nobody to talk to about this. I so appreciate this site.
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Old 02-20-2020, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by MMD28 View Post
So true! What do people do about it?
Focusing on yourself is the answer really, for your well being (and sanity!). You can't fix addiction but you have control over yourself.

That really means looking out for yourself, taking care of yourself, making your own social circle, doing things you enjoy, having fun.

You really can't hitch your wagon to someone who just wants to drink if that's not your thing! Certainly not socially.

You can leave or you can stay but regardless, look out for yourself, take any effort you have made to drag him off the sofa and just focus on doing things you enjoy.

His main response is that he isn't hurting anything and likes to drink. He thinks I should allow him to be happy
In a way, what he is saying is true. He doesn't have a problem with his drinking, you do.

Now ideally in a relationship there is give and take and the couple enjoys doing things together. That's obviously not the situation for you and probably won't be, that's why focusing on yourself is so important.

In some relationships people drift apart due to different life ideals, like the husband that is absent every weekend for golf. Now, the difference with alcoholism is, it's not just a weekend thing (although that would be bad enough), it's an every day thing all day long and it inherently changes the person.
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Old 02-20-2020, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by OliviaLynnMarsh View Post
Thank you everyone. I might go to Al-Anon.
Olivia or anyone who’s interested. There are phone in meetings for al Anon for those who can’t or are leary of trying a meeting in person. You don’t even have to talk, you’re automatically muted when you connect. They are led just like a regular meeting. If you don’t have the al Anon books to reference at home that’s ok (I don’t yet). You can share at the end of the meeting in an “informal” talk too.

*Have patience, sometimes you get double talkers etc. but the moderator/s is very good at giving turns. Sometimes there can be 30 callers so...

I’ll try to connect the link here (these are Eastern time)

https://al-anon.info/MeetingSearch/P...px?language=EN
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Old 02-20-2020, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MMD28 View Post
Thank you..no, I really have nobody to talk to about this. I so appreciate this site.

I always feel like a hypocrite for posting on here. Like I'm not qualified to give advice. But I do know that it's therapeutic to talk to other people that know what you're going through.

When I first decided that I was done with keeping the secret that my AH was an alcoholic, I confided in my CLOSEST friends. Just a few people that I could trust. A huge weight was lifted and it propelled me forward. Since, I've gradually learned about alcoholism, codependency, gaslighting, manipulation, etc. It's helped my emotional intelligence and helps to identify bad behaviors as they're happening.
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:20 PM
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Great thread .
Reading here I realize how much I dislike the term "high-functioning
alcoholic". It is nothing more than a denial tool to help us not see and
respond to the gravity of the situation (hindsight).
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Old 02-21-2020, 05:57 AM
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Yes, they turn it on us a lot- it’s defense denial mode. Easier for the alcoholic to deflect and start talking about your problems than his. Self protection. I wouldn’t be in this relationship now except for my compassion grew after he confided childhood sexual abuse to me. I finally understood that his drinking has nothing to do with me. A lot of people tend to site their relationship or spouse as the reason they are or others are unhappy. Usually this is far from the truth. One of his friends was telling him how “happy “ he is now that he has found the love of his life ( you guessed it, 6 months or so into the relationship... it will be his third marriage). I’m thankful that my guy is smart enough not to believe that crap and he allowed himself to be vulnerable enough to realize that he has a problem. Totally focusing on negatives and hammering someone into the ground for their faults is not only wrong, it won’t work. I’m very happy with how I’m handling this right now. He’s sober for the last couple of weeks with the exception of two nights where he had a couple of drinks late to help him sleep. I realize he needs to be alcohol free and I believe that he will be very soon. I can’t ignore all the things he is doing to try and stay sober can I? There are so many positives about our relationship and family life- it would be a lot to throw away because he’s not perfect. I have an idea in my mind about what would constitute leaving him , but I have to give him a chance. And I will go to Al-Anon.
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
Focusing on yourself is the answer really, for your well being (and sanity!). You can't fix addiction but you have control over yourself.

That really means looking out for yourself, taking care of yourself, making your own social circle, doing things you enjoy, having fun.

You really can't hitch your wagon to someone who just wants to drink if that's not your thing! Certainly not socially.

You can leave or you can stay but regardless, look out for yourself, take any effort you have made to drag him off the sofa and just focus on doing things you enjoy.



In a way, what he is saying is true. He doesn't have a problem with his drinking, you do.

Now ideally in a relationship there is give and take and the couple enjoys doing things together. That's obviously not the situation for you and probably won't be, that's why focusing on yourself is so important.

In some relationships people drift apart due to different life ideals, like the husband that is absent every weekend for golf. Now, the difference with alcoholism is, it's not just a weekend thing (although that would be bad enough), it's an every day thing all day long and it inherently changes the person.
important to remember that all situations are different. Also that’s why we may differ in coping strategies, viewpoints, decisions. Not all problem drinkers/alcoholics over drink daily . There’s the binge drinking etc. My friend’s husband didn’t drink mon- fri, then Friday - Sunday he was always intoxicated. Happy to say he’s sober for almost a year. My alcoholic and yours may have varying degrees, in different stages. Question for you all, we have two couples that we know well- good friends- and he knows that I’ve told them about his issue. Mad first but not anymore. One if the friends is sober for nearly a year. When we’re all together again, I’m thinking if bringing it up to break the ice on the topic. He won’t know how to I’m sure. But hey, he knows they know and I think our friend could help him. Think I should do that?
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:13 AM
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I think you should leave his recovery entirely in his hands and just focus on whatever support you need for yourself.
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:32 AM
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No, I don't think you should bring it up. The friends already know. By bringing it up again, you're just trying to control the outcome.

Back away & let him take ownership of his drinking.
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:48 AM
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Welcome, OliviaLynn!
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:59 AM
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[QUOTE=flower959;7387149]OLM-There's no preventing this from getting worse. It just gradually does. Sometimes, it gets better then goes back to even worse.

Thanks Flower959. All that has happened here too. AFter the moderation attempts which seemed to go well for a week or two, then it was the bigger sized beer, then the stronger 8% beer, then two beer that I could see, but 3 more before he cam in from garage, and sometimes rum or vodka. Glad to say he now realizes that moderation won't work.

I just had a conversation with my 19 year old. He doesn't ever want us to ask him to leave because he fears dad will get worse if we do that. "He's not hurting us mom", he said "just hurting himself, and we can help him with that". Oh my. I really pray that he will get sober this time. I've contacted the addictions counsellor and he says if AH doesn't take the appt, I can take it myself, which I fully plan to do.
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Old 02-21-2020, 07:05 AM
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Welcome, this is a great place to be. I was married to a high functioning alcoholic for 22 years. When I first came here and read everyones stories I thought that would never be our situation (too dire). It is 100% true that high functioning is a stage of the disease. My AH is in senior management for big oil. Somehow he still manages to be employed but Im sure that will change as well. Things that have happened in the last 8 years of his "high functioning stage" -
1) drunk driving accident with our child
2) left me in a hotel room in another state after disfiguring cancer surgery (he was in charge of my care)
3) attempted to force one of our children into living with him via identity theft of Childs personal information
4) facing criminal federal fraud charges
5) facing civil state fraud charges
6) IRS issues
7) one child refuses to engage with him at all
8) he constantly threatens both of our children's education
9) DVT from the alcohol
10) herpes medication (idk when that happened)
11) infidelity
12) perjury and aggravated perjury - DA willing to charge criminally but I have time
13) breach of contract - civil/criminal
14) child unable to wake AH many, many times during my cancer issues
15) drunk drove child and friend from another city, child has never recovered from the fear of that night

All of this from what society considers a "functioning" alcoholic"
The professionals say that its not unusual for them to be able to control one area of their life while the rest of it blows up, until that one part is all they have left and eventually they will blow that up as well. I can't tell you how many times he drove my children drunk that they have now shared with me. We got lucky before we left. What I can tell you is that my kids knew about their Dads issues far longer than I knew. I learned in 2019 that one of our children knew AH was meeting a woman in a hotel bar dating back to 2011-2012. We left in 2017. Can you imagine what that does to a child and the fact that they carried this knowledge for years. He hid booze everywhere, toilet tank, briefcase, trunk, under the seat of the car, was leaving work at 2pm (iPhone maps), strippers, gambling, you name it, it happened. Our children even conducted their own intervention at 16 and 19 years old. One child refuses to engage at all and one is just trying to finish school to obtain freedom from AH's control. You cannot prevent anything from getting worse, the only thing you can do is protect yourself and your children from sinking with him. I get how it feels impossible to wrap your brain around all of it, I still can't fully comprehend how one person can leave such a wake of destruction. All I know is my children are so much calmer, happier and healthier from not living in that situation. Keep sharing, lots of smart people have already commented and everyone has wisdom to share.
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Old 02-21-2020, 07:14 AM
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Lots of good, thoughtful posts here.
I would like to add another.
This may seem obvious, but I don’t see it addressed much, so here goes.
Over time, alcohol destroys the body and mind.
My sib, alcohol addicted all of his adult life, is 64 and looks a decade older.
He no longer bathes, looks like a homeless person, is incontinent, and cannot string a coherent sentence together.
I am not suggesting leaving to all who contemplate the future.
But I do recommend having a care plan in place to accommodate the eventual deterioration.
Nursing homes and standard care facilities will not take active drinkers.
So that may leave the spouse to be the main caregiver.
Look at finances now, not later. Find out what services, nursing, in home care, etc. that are available.
One of my uncles had cirrhosis, and my aunt was overwhelmed trying to care for him. She resorted to periodically calling the EMTs to haul him off to the hospital for a few days so she could rest.
It was a very sad way to go, for both of them.
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Old 02-21-2020, 07:42 AM
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[QUOTE=Maudcat;7387843]Lots of good, thoughtful posts here.
I would like to add another.
This may seem obvious, but I don’t see it addressed much, so here goes.
Over time, alcohol destroys the body and mind.
My sib, alcohol addicted all of his adult life, is 64 and looks a decade older.


Wow, that is certainly sad, all around. My hubby is 62, and although he does bathe, etc., he has never taken great care of his teeth..yes, he brushes, but doesn't see a dentist, etc. There is a strange odor that I can't explain..it's not really bad breath and it doesn't really smell like beer. I just know I don't like the smell when he comes near and have tried to nicely tell him, but that is hard to do. I have to wonder if it's coming from the inside but don't know enough about it. I do know for sure, alcohol is destroying his mind and changing his personality. That is very noticeable. He is also angry now when he's had a few drinks in him..he has never been violent or anything, just confrontational about nonsense and it almost seems like he waits until he drinks to argue, where he never did that before. Thanks for your input.
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