Micromanagement
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Micromanagement
Hello,
I'm new to the forum. My background: I was married for 20+ years to an active alcoholic and mustered the courage to leave -- a terrifying decision as I had been a stay-at-home mom during those years.
I've since bettered myself educationally and remarried. The man I chose to marry has been in recovery for 15 years. I'm proud of the hard work he put into his recovery and the fact he has raised an amazing daughter alone.
This is where I'm having a problem: he micromanages me. Some days are better than others but after enduring the management for a period of time I eventually boil over and it's not a pretty sight.
Last night was a prime example. He walked in to find me still making juice for the following day. He questioned me in a hasty tone with a sour look on his face as to why I made the decision to juice at that time; why hadn't I done it early, what was I thinking, and on and on.
In our new home I unpacked the kitchen and put everything where I thought was the best place. I was later questioned about why I put things where I did, that it defied logic. Some time in the night he decided to rearrange things from where I placed them. I put them back the next day only to find the next morning they were moved to where he wanted the again.
He also wants the bathroom towels folded and washed a certain way.
I could go on. It's exhausting.
I have fault too. I blow up when I've had enough which is what I did last night. Perhaps he should instruct me on the best time to go to the bathroom and best practices for wiping?
Is this a symptom of alcoholism and the behaviors that come with it, or am I reaching? I have to say, all of the years I was married to my active ex alcoholic husband, he never managed me like this.
I'm new to the forum. My background: I was married for 20+ years to an active alcoholic and mustered the courage to leave -- a terrifying decision as I had been a stay-at-home mom during those years.
I've since bettered myself educationally and remarried. The man I chose to marry has been in recovery for 15 years. I'm proud of the hard work he put into his recovery and the fact he has raised an amazing daughter alone.
This is where I'm having a problem: he micromanages me. Some days are better than others but after enduring the management for a period of time I eventually boil over and it's not a pretty sight.
Last night was a prime example. He walked in to find me still making juice for the following day. He questioned me in a hasty tone with a sour look on his face as to why I made the decision to juice at that time; why hadn't I done it early, what was I thinking, and on and on.
In our new home I unpacked the kitchen and put everything where I thought was the best place. I was later questioned about why I put things where I did, that it defied logic. Some time in the night he decided to rearrange things from where I placed them. I put them back the next day only to find the next morning they were moved to where he wanted the again.
He also wants the bathroom towels folded and washed a certain way.
I could go on. It's exhausting.
I have fault too. I blow up when I've had enough which is what I did last night. Perhaps he should instruct me on the best time to go to the bathroom and best practices for wiping?
Is this a symptom of alcoholism and the behaviors that come with it, or am I reaching? I have to say, all of the years I was married to my active ex alcoholic husband, he never managed me like this.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
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It doesn't sound like a symptom of alcoholism to me, but it does sound like a significant character defect on his part. Next time he tries to micromanage you, ask him if the Big Book doesn't tell him to stay on his side of the street. It's something he needs to address. You have every right to set a boundary that says the micromanaging will not be tolerated. If he still doesn't get it, tell him he can do those chores himself.
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Ahhh...the Big Book and staying on his side of the street, great idea. He will understand that language very well, though not sure how he will handle hearing that from me. I know if I attempted to manage his daily affairs he would blow a gasket. For some strange reason he believes that my not being thoughtful about how he likes things to be done and in what order means we are "not in sync", whatever that means.
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Wow. That sounds miserable. Sounds to me like he is just a micromanaging, controlling person. I would say that does not sound like addiction but a personality issue. It also sounds like it is emotionally abusive.
I commend you on being strong enough to get through all you have gone through. Have you sat him down and talked to him about this behavior?
Either way, I am so sorry for what brings you here, but so glad you are here.
I commend you on being strong enough to get through all you have gone through. Have you sat him down and talked to him about this behavior?
Either way, I am so sorry for what brings you here, but so glad you are here.
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Codependent controlling behaviour perhaps? Most alcoholics are also codependent so have the double whammy.
It's interesting the addict I was involved with would be constantly dropping comments on how I did things and being critical. Then he was a narcissist and was all part of his putting me down to control me game.
It's interesting the addict I was involved with would be constantly dropping comments on how I did things and being critical. Then he was a narcissist and was all part of his putting me down to control me game.
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Yes, after I blew up we sat and talked about it. This was when he decided we just aren't "in sync" with one another. I truly don't know what that means and he can't explain it. He thinks the perfect relationship is just in sync and in tune at all times.
I did find it interesting that he said his previous wife said the same things to him, that he treated her like his child instead of his wife.
I did find this on ClarityWay.com, "The problem is that addicts expend a lot of energy trying to micromanage the universe and the people in it. What happens when people and circumstances don’t measure up? We’re angry, disappointed, depressed and resentful. And isn’t that a perfect recipe for a binge? We figured if we couldn’t control life, we’d control how we dealt with it, which is to say, how we’d get our fix." I believe this illustrates his behavior perfectly minus the binge. He gets very angry when I don't measure up to his expectation.
Back to Al Anon I go! Oh the joy!
I did find it interesting that he said his previous wife said the same things to him, that he treated her like his child instead of his wife.
I did find this on ClarityWay.com, "The problem is that addicts expend a lot of energy trying to micromanage the universe and the people in it. What happens when people and circumstances don’t measure up? We’re angry, disappointed, depressed and resentful. And isn’t that a perfect recipe for a binge? We figured if we couldn’t control life, we’d control how we dealt with it, which is to say, how we’d get our fix." I believe this illustrates his behavior perfectly minus the binge. He gets very angry when I don't measure up to his expectation.
Back to Al Anon I go! Oh the joy!
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This seems like garden-variety controlling to me. I don’t have any experience with long-term sobriety so I don’t know if that might contribute, but constantly telling you how to do things is disrespectful and controlling.
Tellingly, he doesn’t think he is out of sync with you when he is the one who is undoing your work. It’s only when you are doing things differently than he wants them done that he makes that claim. That seems to indicate a pretty gendered understanding of who is supposed to be pleasing whom. Sounds like he thinks it’s your job to do things how he wants.
I had a whole lot of other emotionally abusive things going on in my former marriage, and I’m not going to diagnose your relationship based on two paragraphs on the Internet. But I would be pushing back hard on the idea that he gets to control how you do things, and I will never again allow someone to criticize how I am doing tasks for the home that he is himself not doing. It is a pretty deeply disrespectful approach that assumes he is entitled to your service, frankly.
Tellingly, he doesn’t think he is out of sync with you when he is the one who is undoing your work. It’s only when you are doing things differently than he wants them done that he makes that claim. That seems to indicate a pretty gendered understanding of who is supposed to be pleasing whom. Sounds like he thinks it’s your job to do things how he wants.
I had a whole lot of other emotionally abusive things going on in my former marriage, and I’m not going to diagnose your relationship based on two paragraphs on the Internet. But I would be pushing back hard on the idea that he gets to control how you do things, and I will never again allow someone to criticize how I am doing tasks for the home that he is himself not doing. It is a pretty deeply disrespectful approach that assumes he is entitled to your service, frankly.
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I'm with hopeful - it doesn't sound to me like it's related to alcoholism or recovery. This is all about Control. While codependents definitely tend to have issues around control, this is pretty extreme behavior for a codie. Like your example about him moving everything in the kitchen twice - codie behavior tends to be more subtle, more passive aggressive and less direct & demanding. (JMHO)
Is he like this with other people or situations?
Is he like this with other people or situations?
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Teehee...…..Oh, My----this reminds me sooo much of my first husband....the father of my three young children.....I divorced him for precisely this reason...
And, he was NOT an alcoholic!
It was unrelenting. He never yelled, or called me a name, or cheated, or got drunk, or wasted money, etc. But the criticisms and "micromanaging"...the controlling never stopped.
It drove me Krazy. Every few months I would get upset and cry...and, yes, raise my voice....and, he might slack off for a couple of weeks....then it would go back to the same thing, all over again. I began to sense a pattern...a cycle.
All the while, I was working a demanding job. taking care of three small children and doing all the housework.....I was still a young wife....mid twenties.
I began to feel like I didn't matter....not as a person with feelings....just an unpaid, unappreciated house maid....I felt unseen and unheard.
I still remember the exact minute that I suddenly "saw" the reality....it was after a particularly dismissive and critical thing that he had said.....and, I thought...." I am never going to get to be "Me", for the rest of my life. I will never feel free. I will feel completely happy, for the rest of my life...and, I will never feel loved by a m an, the way I need to feel loved. And, I knew...that very moment...that my life was in the balance...that I had become enlightened, and that there would never be any going back. Once I realized that, it could not be unreaized.
I turned on my heels and said to him....."I want a divorce...I am going to see a lawyer,tomorrow." And, I did.
The children are grown adults, now...and I never have...ever...regretted that decision. Leaving that marriage...I felt like a prisoner who was walking out through the prison gates...…
I remember, one day, a few weeks after the separation....as I was driving home from work.....I was thinking that I would get some food from the store---pick the kids up from the daycare center....and go for a picnic at a park, for the rest of the day.....And, I remember, distinctly, that---"I don't have to "clear" my decision with Tom!!"......Aaah, the air smelled sweet.....
I have heard, through the grapevine...through the adult kids and a couple of mutual friends, that he hasn't changed, after all these years....
I am so thankful that, as a younger woman, I was able to save my soul....
If I hadn't, I shudder to think what my life, and the lives of my children, might have been.....
I have come to see that he actually had a disordered personality...something that is unchanging....
And, he was NOT an alcoholic!
It was unrelenting. He never yelled, or called me a name, or cheated, or got drunk, or wasted money, etc. But the criticisms and "micromanaging"...the controlling never stopped.
It drove me Krazy. Every few months I would get upset and cry...and, yes, raise my voice....and, he might slack off for a couple of weeks....then it would go back to the same thing, all over again. I began to sense a pattern...a cycle.
All the while, I was working a demanding job. taking care of three small children and doing all the housework.....I was still a young wife....mid twenties.
I began to feel like I didn't matter....not as a person with feelings....just an unpaid, unappreciated house maid....I felt unseen and unheard.
I still remember the exact minute that I suddenly "saw" the reality....it was after a particularly dismissive and critical thing that he had said.....and, I thought...." I am never going to get to be "Me", for the rest of my life. I will never feel free. I will feel completely happy, for the rest of my life...and, I will never feel loved by a m an, the way I need to feel loved. And, I knew...that very moment...that my life was in the balance...that I had become enlightened, and that there would never be any going back. Once I realized that, it could not be unreaized.
I turned on my heels and said to him....."I want a divorce...I am going to see a lawyer,tomorrow." And, I did.
The children are grown adults, now...and I never have...ever...regretted that decision. Leaving that marriage...I felt like a prisoner who was walking out through the prison gates...…
I remember, one day, a few weeks after the separation....as I was driving home from work.....I was thinking that I would get some food from the store---pick the kids up from the daycare center....and go for a picnic at a park, for the rest of the day.....And, I remember, distinctly, that---"I don't have to "clear" my decision with Tom!!"......Aaah, the air smelled sweet.....
I have heard, through the grapevine...through the adult kids and a couple of mutual friends, that he hasn't changed, after all these years....
I am so thankful that, as a younger woman, I was able to save my soul....
If I hadn't, I shudder to think what my life, and the lives of my children, might have been.....
I have come to see that he actually had a disordered personality...something that is unchanging....
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Glenjo may have hit the nail on the head with controlling codependency. As I was reading your post, I saw glimpses of both my ex and my current husband. (each in their own different capacity)
Ex was SUPER controlling - - I chalked it up to him being ex military and a raging NPD. He was more likely to try and make me feel stupid if I didn't do something his way (aka the "right" way).
Current AH was almost OCD when I met him....all cans/items in fridge were meticulously lined up. Everything had to be "just so". It was like that scene in "Sleeping with the Enemy" where Julia Roberts opens the cabinet doors and everything is perfect. After I moved in, that fell to the wasteside really quickly, because that's impossible to maintain when you're actually COOKING and doing stuff in the kitchen! At least he is of the mentaility that if he wants it "his way" he does it himself with a cheerful heart. He knows he's weird.
Your husband sounds more like my first husband. I bet you find yourself walking on eggshells a lot, which is no way to live. I agree it sounds like the makings of a parent/child relationship....and what wife wants to live that way?
Is that a fault, or just an understandable reaction to his nonsense?!?
Ex was SUPER controlling - - I chalked it up to him being ex military and a raging NPD. He was more likely to try and make me feel stupid if I didn't do something his way (aka the "right" way).
Current AH was almost OCD when I met him....all cans/items in fridge were meticulously lined up. Everything had to be "just so". It was like that scene in "Sleeping with the Enemy" where Julia Roberts opens the cabinet doors and everything is perfect. After I moved in, that fell to the wasteside really quickly, because that's impossible to maintain when you're actually COOKING and doing stuff in the kitchen! At least he is of the mentaility that if he wants it "his way" he does it himself with a cheerful heart. He knows he's weird.
Your husband sounds more like my first husband. I bet you find yourself walking on eggshells a lot, which is no way to live. I agree it sounds like the makings of a parent/child relationship....and what wife wants to live that way?
I have fault too. I blow up when I've had enough which is what I did last night. Perhaps he should instruct me on the best time to go to the bathroom and best practices for wiping?
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Originally Posted by FireSprite 
Is he like this with other people or situations?
I told him last night that I'm just me, I will do things the way I would do them and that's part of being me. He went back to not being in sync. He also believes this is a precursor to my leaving though I've never even hinted to anything other than letting me be me.
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Dandylion,
When I told him I'm just me and I go about doing normal daily activities in the way that I've always done them and that making juice at 9 pm didn't cause injury to anyone in the family including himself, his response was that he is just who he is too. If he does this again (he will, he can't help himself) and telling him the Big Book says to stay on his side of the street doesn't jolt him out of it, I'll ask him to go to couples therapy with me.
This has to stop, I don't like walking on egg shells. I don't like worrying that I need to hurry and do certain chores before he comes home and have certain things in order because I might be scolded. This is ridiculous and insane.
When I told him I'm just me and I go about doing normal daily activities in the way that I've always done them and that making juice at 9 pm didn't cause injury to anyone in the family including himself, his response was that he is just who he is too. If he does this again (he will, he can't help himself) and telling him the Big Book says to stay on his side of the street doesn't jolt him out of it, I'll ask him to go to couples therapy with me.
This has to stop, I don't like walking on egg shells. I don't like worrying that I need to hurry and do certain chores before he comes home and have certain things in order because I might be scolded. This is ridiculous and insane.
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LovePeaceSushi,
My husband was a Navy pilot for over 10 years. He has a certain military order about him and I actually admire it. But yes, I walk on eggshells. I get anxious when I know he will be home from work because I may not have finished the laundry, or have supper on the table, which he won't even eat until bedtime.
My husband was a Navy pilot for over 10 years. He has a certain military order about him and I actually admire it. But yes, I walk on eggshells. I get anxious when I know he will be home from work because I may not have finished the laundry, or have supper on the table, which he won't even eat until bedtime.
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Teehee......you can go to couples therapy, if you want. that is no gurantee that they will "fix" him, though.....It is likely that the therapist will try to get you to "compromise" ……
I convinced my husband to go to a marriage counselor, with me....but, as soon as the counselor suggested that he might need to change his controlling ways.....my husband quit going....claiming that it took too much time, was too expensive, that going to therapy was for men who were sissies, etc. He called the therapist "Dr. Fruitcake"....lol....
I have to laugh that my husband was in the Navy, as a medical corpsman....before I met him.
I, however, doggedly stayed with the counselor for my own individual therapy....for about 6 more months.
Teehee...I am embarrassed to tell you this next thing...After 6 months of the individual therapy, I tole the therapist (who I really liked...and, he was a man)...that I would stay until my youngest child...a daughter ..was 17yrs. old...and then, I was going to divorce my husband. he just smiled, and said, "I don't think you can take it that long".
Well...I had my light bulb moment just a few weeks after that...when I just knew I had to leave that prison without bars to save my soul (and, that of my children)…..
The characteristics that make for a good pilot, and, military officer don't always transfe over to a nurturing home life.....it requires more.....and different.....
I used to live in McLean, Virginia...surrounded by mostly high ranking officers and their families...I saw a lot of that, then.....
I convinced my husband to go to a marriage counselor, with me....but, as soon as the counselor suggested that he might need to change his controlling ways.....my husband quit going....claiming that it took too much time, was too expensive, that going to therapy was for men who were sissies, etc. He called the therapist "Dr. Fruitcake"....lol....
I have to laugh that my husband was in the Navy, as a medical corpsman....before I met him.
I, however, doggedly stayed with the counselor for my own individual therapy....for about 6 more months.
Teehee...I am embarrassed to tell you this next thing...After 6 months of the individual therapy, I tole the therapist (who I really liked...and, he was a man)...that I would stay until my youngest child...a daughter ..was 17yrs. old...and then, I was going to divorce my husband. he just smiled, and said, "I don't think you can take it that long".
Well...I had my light bulb moment just a few weeks after that...when I just knew I had to leave that prison without bars to save my soul (and, that of my children)…..
The characteristics that make for a good pilot, and, military officer don't always transfe over to a nurturing home life.....it requires more.....and different.....
I used to live in McLean, Virginia...surrounded by mostly high ranking officers and their families...I saw a lot of that, then.....
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Teehee.....the fact that his previous wife said the same thing about him...that he treated her more like a child than his wife.....this tells you the story----that it is baked into the cake, long before you, or she met him...for whatever reason.....
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how long did you two know each other before you got married?
how long HAVE you been married?
scurrying to get chores done before he gets home sounds very much parent-child. at best. master/slave at worst.
how long HAVE you been married?
scurrying to get chores done before he gets home sounds very much parent-child. at best. master/slave at worst.
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Teehee.....the fact that his previous wife said the same thing about him...that he treated her more like a child than his wife.....this tells you the story----that it is baked into the cake, long before you, or she met him...for whatever reason.....
Here are the things that agitate him:
1. Picking the same color bed sheets to replace the sheets needing washed, or, placing the recently washed/dried sheets back on the bed.
2. Not having the home spit spot and dinner completed with cleaned kitchen before he gets home from work.
3. If I showered in the morning vs showering at night before bed.
4. I'm to go to bed at the same time he does.
5. If I attempt to watch something different than we watch every night before bed.
6. If I watch any tv during the day.
7. If I'm perceived to have been on the internet too long.
8. If I change anything about the homes decor or arrangement.
I'm sure I could think of more, but you get the idea.
His agitation will often come with angry outbursts, especially if I try to verbally defend myself with reason, have a different opinion, or just don't go along with what he wants.
He tries to keep me in check by giving me advice on how to perform better and to do things in a more timely manner (what he considers timely).
I'll just work on myself by getting back into Al Anon. Apparently I'm broken and cant choose a suitable spouse to live happily ever after with. I have problems!
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
how long did you two know each other before you got married?
how long HAVE you been married?
scurrying to get chores done before he gets home sounds very much parent-child. at best. master/slave at worst.
how long HAVE you been married?
scurrying to get chores done before he gets home sounds very much parent-child. at best. master/slave at worst.
It use to be a joke when he would make goofy outrageous demands. Its not funny anymore to him or me.
I told him last night I am his wife not his child which is apparently something the ex-wife use to say to him. I didn't know that until last night.
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Teehee......don't get so fatalistic on yourself! he does enough putting you down...you don't have to join his team......lol.....
You don't have to give up on relationships forever and yes you may have some issues (who doesn't)…..but you also have some great qualities and attributes...don't forget that.....
I have a suggestion for you.....in ADDITION to alanon...get an individual therapist to work with.....as you may have some specific issues that alanon won't be addressing, as much as you need. Yes, you do need the fellowship of alanon and what it offers...absolutely...but, you may need some more individual attention, just now.
Now, I am going to ask you a question...which you don't have to answer, here, if you don't want to..Were any of your caretakers, when you were little, alcoholics or addicted....OR did you grow up in any kind of dysfunctional family?
If so...I highly recommend that you get the Big Book and the literature from "Adult Children of Alcoholics" and study it. It will resonate with you a lot....
Keep in mind, that it is for adults who were raised in any kind of dysfunction...whether it was from alcohol or otherwise....
There are a bundh of books on "Adult Children of Alcoholics".....on amazon.com.....and, very cheap if you will accept a used book.
Remember that alanon, therapy and "Adult Children of Alcoholics" are not in conflict with each other.....In fact, they augment each other.
I surmise that your self esteem has taken quite a hit...especially after living with Mr. Authoritarian.....
Take all the support and help that you can get from others who understand beyond mere words.....
You don't have to give up on relationships forever and yes you may have some issues (who doesn't)…..but you also have some great qualities and attributes...don't forget that.....
I have a suggestion for you.....in ADDITION to alanon...get an individual therapist to work with.....as you may have some specific issues that alanon won't be addressing, as much as you need. Yes, you do need the fellowship of alanon and what it offers...absolutely...but, you may need some more individual attention, just now.
Now, I am going to ask you a question...which you don't have to answer, here, if you don't want to..Were any of your caretakers, when you were little, alcoholics or addicted....OR did you grow up in any kind of dysfunctional family?
If so...I highly recommend that you get the Big Book and the literature from "Adult Children of Alcoholics" and study it. It will resonate with you a lot....
Keep in mind, that it is for adults who were raised in any kind of dysfunction...whether it was from alcohol or otherwise....
There are a bundh of books on "Adult Children of Alcoholics".....on amazon.com.....and, very cheap if you will accept a used book.
Remember that alanon, therapy and "Adult Children of Alcoholics" are not in conflict with each other.....In fact, they augment each other.
I surmise that your self esteem has taken quite a hit...especially after living with Mr. Authoritarian.....
Take all the support and help that you can get from others who understand beyond mere words.....
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hi teehee
I know exactly what you mean - I've been there.
Now that is in a place where I wasn't living with the person - so it wasn't my turf, however the M.O. was exactly the same.
Could be OCD, could be a HUGE control issue, but of course, it doesn't really matter, he needs to take care of it. Above all, realize, daily - it's NOT YOU.
I handled it as you are going to try - "that's not your side of the street", that worked in the moment but not ongoing. When asked "what are you doing" my reply was - whatever I want to.
I could list 50 "rules" that were totally ludicrous and would make no sense to anyone except the person making the rules. There was addiction involved but you know the two are so hard to separate. OCD? Could be, things must be just so and there can be other signs of this. Then again, control issues can appear the same, I assume his routines are predictable as well.
It is a HUGE problem and there is no reason for you to live that way. He needs help with this obviously. This is no different than dealing with an addiction really in that he either finds a way to manage it or you have to detach, detach, detach or move along perhaps.
As for him saying you are not in "sync" well, truly you are not. He wants things done his way when he wants them done. You do not. Only you can decide for yourself if this can be worked out.
I'm really sorry you are dealing with this - it's a terrible thing, I know.
I know exactly what you mean - I've been there.
Now that is in a place where I wasn't living with the person - so it wasn't my turf, however the M.O. was exactly the same.
Could be OCD, could be a HUGE control issue, but of course, it doesn't really matter, he needs to take care of it. Above all, realize, daily - it's NOT YOU.
I handled it as you are going to try - "that's not your side of the street", that worked in the moment but not ongoing. When asked "what are you doing" my reply was - whatever I want to.
I could list 50 "rules" that were totally ludicrous and would make no sense to anyone except the person making the rules. There was addiction involved but you know the two are so hard to separate. OCD? Could be, things must be just so and there can be other signs of this. Then again, control issues can appear the same, I assume his routines are predictable as well.
It is a HUGE problem and there is no reason for you to live that way. He needs help with this obviously. This is no different than dealing with an addiction really in that he either finds a way to manage it or you have to detach, detach, detach or move along perhaps.
As for him saying you are not in "sync" well, truly you are not. He wants things done his way when he wants them done. You do not. Only you can decide for yourself if this can be worked out.
I'm really sorry you are dealing with this - it's a terrible thing, I know.
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