FWN

Therapy session went really well today. I am in a completely different place mentally than I was the last time I saw her 2 months ago, prior to joining SR and realizing that yes, my AH is in fact an A and it's not that I'm a controlling wife who needs to figure out how to relax when he has 'a couple of beers' -eye roll-

I told her based on my AH's current attitude that I thought there was a 30% chance or so that he'd decide to give up alcohol for good upon finishing his outpatient program. And that my boundary was zero alcohol or we were splitting up. She was proud of me.

This is what I don't understand, she and my friend at dinner the other night talked about how proud and grateful they were regarding my attitude towards splitting. Yes it will be hard, and yes I'd prefer to stay married to my H and the father of my children but knowing what I know now, I could NEVER go back to that place of ignorance and acceptance of his drinking. The deception and lies alone... the looking up at him while I'm making dinner and realizing he's been drinking, the sneaking off to the garage to chug a beer. What kind of life is that? What kind of marriage is that?

I also fully realize that I have no concept of what a good marriage is at this point. 9 years of going back and forth with an A thinking it's my fault for being too controlling trying to work on ME getting over him having a couple of beers just to realize the extent of it all... so much broken trust. So many 'I'll do betters' never to see any real change. I told her things seemed good right now with him not drinking, I was even keeled emotionally for days and days which is NOT how it's ever been, so much stress and anxiety over the drinking for so long. She also made the point that I've been striving just to be 'normal' for 9 years, that if I were to step into an actual normal marriage for a day that it would likely look drastically different than my 'good days' I'm having right now with my AH.

She also made the good point that he has no idea who he is without alcohol. That if he does decide to choose not to drink anymore, that he will be going through a personal transformation that I won't be a part of, that he has to figure out on his own. He has no idea what he likes without alcohol or how to be a person in this world doing social things and coping with stress without alcohol.
So if he goes the 30% route, gosh we have a long, tough road ahead of us with him finding who he really is while us also trying to repair/build our marriage. That for so long has been completely overtaken and overshadowed by his drinking problem. It's almost like our entire marriage has revolved around his drinking problem. Yes we've had good times and good days, but it's always overshadowed by 'the drinking thing' as I used to refer to it.

I just don't think he's at all there yet, willing to go the 30% route and give up alcohol. It also saddens me that even if the alcohol goes away, what will we be left with? Will I be selling myself short because our relationship has revolved around his drinking status and we haven't worked on anything other than figuring that part out almost our entire marriage? I love him. But I don't trust him. We get along well when he's not drinking, but is that enough for a marriage? I'm 34 years old and I want to be in a satisfying, loving, trusting, happy, yes I know imperfect at times, symbiotic partnership. Is that even possible for us?

Definitely more rambling from me here, just putting my thoughts down hoping to get feedback from you guys who have been so insightful on this forum. Thank you.

dandylion

fwn…...you are the one who will know what is enough for your marriage. Each of us is different, in that respect.
I know that you are impatient for answers.....of course you are! Who wouldn't be....
But, unless you are ready to walk out the door, today...what choice do you have, but to observe how the future unfolds....?
You can keep detaching from the drinking behaviors and preparing yourself for whatever challenges you are going to face.....
Good that you went to the counselor, and I think it would be good to have a close connection with her.....as you will need her support, now matter what happens....Alanon is another connection and source of support....
And, of course. continuing reading and studying....

An important step, for you, I think, is a visit to a lawyer....for information gathering. You owe it to your self to have as much knowledge as you can gather. Knowledge is power....and, having the facts can be of solace and reduce your anticipatory anxiety, to some extent....
You need to know His rights and Your rights.....ignorance is Not bliss! It is anxiety and fear producing....

You have got what.....about 6wks. until baby arrives?......you have got a lot to keep you busy and as distracted as you can manage...…

good that you are talking to girlfriend and counselor....the more connections, the better.....

this does not distract from your husband or the marriage, in my opinion....I think it is under the category of taking care of your self...which you are entitled to!

FallenAngelina

It sounds like you were struggling against his drinking, never in acceptance about his drinking. Acceptance is being mostly at peace with something, even when it's not preferable - not liking it, necessarily, but not fighting the circumstance, not focusing on what's not possible to change so that life doesn't become all about the problem. It sounds like you're only now just beginning to get some clarity with what you accept?

FWN

That must be the case, I guess it is that my tolerance for this BS is lower than others. Up until 2 months ago, I felt trapped in this marriage with this round and round dance of fighting about his drinking not really understanding that it wasn't me and our marriage problems. But now that I have this knowledge, I feel like I have FREEDOM to make this choice to leave because he's literally choosing alcohol over no alcohol (us) and I'm allowed to have a say in this life as well. I can absolutely not see myself choosing to go back to how things were. So yes, I've figured out what I'm willing to accept and I am NOT willing to accept living with an active AH when I know I'm happier alone than in that situation.

Dazedandconfus

FWN

I completely agree. And I am feeling confident these days simply because I've made things so black and white and feeling at peace with my decision. Because I know whatever happens it will be much more peaceful for my mental health than me choosing to stay in a relationship with someone who openly lies and deceives and someone I truly cannot stand when drinking.
I do need to meet with a lawyer to know all of those specifics. I do not plan on filing for divorce if me and the kids go live back in my hometown for a while. I'd just be giving him space (and me space) to figure out what our next steps are. He knows this. He knows what me leaving means, where I'd go, where we'd live, etc. I wouldn't keep that a secret from him. He'd be welcome to come spend weekends with us, but without drinking only.
I know he doesn't want to lose us, it's just whether or not he wants to keep drinking alcohol more. And he may need time to rest in that decision if we do leave to figure things out on his end.

Dazedandconfus

FWN

dandylion

fwn…….when you say that you 'don't know what to tell him at this point".....I don't think there is anything more that you can say. It seems, to me, like you have now said all that can be said. You have established a necessary boundary for yourself, and, you are continuing to enforce it. Good for you. I know it was hard for you to do....
I don't see any other choice, for you, without destroying your own mental health.
At least, you know where he is coming from, as to the moderation thing. I suppose it is good, in one respect, that he is being open with you, about it....
But, for his own welfare, these kinds of feelings and fears that he is having would be what a person would take to their sponsor and other members of AA.
Especially, this early in the process....an AA meeting about every day, for the amount of support it requires....Some places, it is not uncommon to recommend 90 meetings, in 90 days.....I have known alcoholics who went to more than one meeting a day, when they felt that they needed it....

Just keep the focus on you, as you have been and know that you will have a plan for what action to take, when ever you have the need to....

Hawkeye13

It seems like he has put his family and the alcohol on a balancing scale and they are “even” at this point.

I think you are right holding the line. His so-called final attempt at moderation will fail just like the others did, and you and kids and new baby will have to live with the uncertainty and stress of him trying.

You offered him space, but it seems his still wants to have his cake and eat it too. . . just like before.

SmallButMighty

That's so sad, and such an alcoholic thing to say... and his denial doesn't allow him to see it for what it really is. I'm sorry FWN.

My AXH had very similar sentiments and delusions. He was never able to moderate and drink "normally" for any length of time, it ALWAYS got bad again. And he always needed just one more chance.. one more chance with me.. and then one more chance to prove he could moderate... cue the lies.... ugggg... horrible, destructive in every way cycle, for years and years.

By the time we were breaking up he actually told me that the only promise he would ever be able to keep was that he would lie to me for the rest of him life to feed his demons. He. Said. Those. Words.

I believed him. I'd lived it long enough to know that he wasn't lying about THAT. It cemented my need to get out of that marriage. It was sink or swim so I swam like hell away from that sinking ship.

I'm glad you and your AH are at least able to communicate for the time being. That's something at least. Honesty is so very important in any respectful relationship so kudos to the both of you for the dialogue. I hope something clicks in him soon and he can see that monkey on his back will never be his friend.

dandylion

Actually, fwn…..I think that giving him the space may be the most supportive and loving thing you can give him. I think that if you stayed while /when he tries the moderation experiment....it would just enable him to feel like he has a 'safety net".....or, a soft place to fall...without consequences (while you are going Krazy, by the way)…..Most alcoholics will not be able to surrender, unless they feel the real pain their drinking...the real consequences.
He seems determined to do the moderation thing...
If I were you, at this point, I wouldn't even try to hold him back from it.....he is gonna do what he is gonna do....

You need your emotional energy available for the coming baby planning....
And, especially, seeing a lawyer for the information gathering....It will be easier to do before baby gets here...…

On a happier note----Is the nursery ready for the little one?

FallenAngelina

Staying while he tries to moderate would also keep you locked in a cycle where he is hiding and defensive about the drinking and you are evaluating and disappointed with his behavior. Your standing by your own boundary of "no drinking" is going to serve everyone. Murky boundaries are what make for stressful, unhappy homes. Clear boundaries make for peaceful homes. The important part here is that you know your boundary, FWN, and have committed to it. Out of that, all good things will grow.

Mango212

I know he doesn't want to lose us, it's just whether or not he wants to keep drinking alcohol more.

The "wants to keep drinking" is like saying someone who is severely ill "wants" to be that way. It's an illusion that distracts from the root issues of a disease that's very counterintuitive, cunning and baffling.

Actions count and speak louder than any words. It sounds like there are still a lot of words being used like two boxers in the ring together. It's exactly what this family disease of alcoholism thrives on. On the surface it seems and feels like progress. It's often simply a stage of the disease within the family. It "feels" like understanding, respect, attempting to work things out. Alcoholism at the core enjoys these things as a con artist doing a slight-of-hand trick enjoys distracting the people involved from the trickery that is unseen.

This is where going through 12 step programs of recovery comes in and changes things.

From the first thread you posted:

"Let me preface all of this by saying my husband is a good man and a good father"


Alcoholism does not discriminate and it is a horrendous disease.

One day at a time. Let go and let God. Allowing our own recovery program to create changes in our lives is enough. Our kids deserve one healthy parent and by shifting our focus from the alcoholic and the alcoholic's actions completely to: self awareness, self actions, self care and connections with healthy relationships outside the alcoholic family, life changes in many good, strong ways.

Mango212

What would happen if you completely stopped talking about it?

Your husband is in an outpatient program. This is his to work through, not yours.

My husband's current outpatient addictions counselor also isn't abstinence based. That freaked me out at first, yet that's mine to deal with and looking back over there past year it's been my faith strengthening, my husband having periods of recovery time, us continuing to live in separate cities.

I'm trusting that Higher Power/God/Great Spirit has this.

FireSprite

I know - there is nothing I wouldn't give up to keep my kid happy & healthy. NOTHING. The idea of anything being more important than her is absurd & I can't imagine how anyone could see it any other way.

It doesn't sound like he's ready to really embrace recovery, I know you must be disappointed but you also know exactly where you stand since he's saying it out loud like that. It's like that sage advice from the Wise Ms. Angelou - "when people show you who they are, believe them (the first time)".

hopeful4

I am not an addict. I can give or take alcohol. If someone told me that I could never drink again, I would be fine with that.

Someone who is not an addict would not risk losing their entire life and give drinking so much power if they were not an alcoholic.

FWN

Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm just now getting to them.

It's hard to not talk about this with him simply because of the pained look on his face in the evening when I know all he wants to do is drink. Just last night, he walked in early from work around 5pm and asked me how I'd feel about us going on the back porch and having a beer together. I very politely said no thanks and we didn't talk about it again.

He bought this book I recommended to him called Under the Influence - A Guide to the Myths and Realities of Alcoholism. The night it came in the mail I read through several of the chapters that caught my eye while he watched a movie with the kids and WOW, what a useful tool. He bought it saying he'll read it or we'll read it together (we read a lot of books together and talk about them). He is somewhere in the 'middle stages' and the descriptions of him from the past through current describe him very well. It scares me.

He told me just yesterday morning that he doesn't think he's in deep denial, that he's more open minded than ever about possibly being an alcoholic but truly I don't think he even knows what that means. I'm disappointed in this outpatient program so far, they haven't touched on any of the science or information/knowledge around alcoholism. I think the information in this book he bought would ruminate in his mind and would do him some good.

Overall I'm trying not to dwell too much on all of this. What will happen will happen, he's white knuckling it and I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. He's struggling greatly in his mind.

Another thing, he seems to think all AA sponsors do is answer the phone and tell him to go to a meeting if he's having struggles. I don't think that's the case... I think they're so much more than that. But my AH has a negative view of AA and sponsors which also makes me sad. He needs resources.

Lastly, sad news. Turns out my dad has cirrhosis (from a non-alcoholic fatty liver that he's had for years). No idea the extent, honestly not even sure what that means for him but 'end stage liver disease' sounds pretty scary to me. Ironic since he's not really much of a drinker and this has always seemed to me to be a drinkers disease.

hopeful4

The difference in recoveries offered is something. Looking back, there is a reason my XAH got nothing out of rehab. The rehab was useless. It was tons of money for nothing. I think that we/they are looking for an open space right away and don't do the research they should do on who will assist them in their own recovery. It's tough.

I am sorry about your dad. Sending you big hugs!

dandylion

fortworthnative…..boundaries, baby, boundaries. lol.....
Now, I do understand that it is impossible not to discuss the elephant in the room, at some level....but, try to avoid too much of the counselor role, with him. Because, it will backfire, on you, down the road....and, it really won't sink in to him, anyway...even if you are saying right things....like it would from someone else or a fellow alcoholic.....It will just build up more fodder for him to blam on you, down the road. Remember he is in this position, because of you...you have come between him and his desire to drink. You are the enemy, now matter how much he might care for you, otherwise.....

to me...I think it is fine for him to read good books on the subject...no matter where they come from....
I am not surprised that he doesn't have a good opinion of AA....the last place an alcoholic who is not desperate to guit drinking wants to be is in or around AA...lol...Most won't go there...unless the Law forces them, somehow....or, unless their personal pain becomes bad enough,,,,,,,