Drunk Grandpa

Old 08-19-2019, 09:20 AM
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Drunk Grandpa

After his recent hospital detox (second in three months), my AXH swore to my sons that he was finally finished with the booze. He had already lost me; he didn't want to lose his sons and granddaughter too. He was going to AA, etc. He hasn't seen our granddaughter in six months because my son won't bring her there if he has been drinking. Since he was newly "sober," my son offered to bring her over and spend the day with him this past weekend.

Lo and behold, when my son arrives, my AXH comes out the front door, slightly staggering, with bloodshot eyes. My son could tell he was drinking.

My son has a real radar for when his dad is drinking or not. He was convinced by phone conversations that he was sober. (My other son was as well.) Then, when he makes arrangements to bring over the granddaughter my AXH was desperate to see, he comes out of the house half drunk! My son put her back in the car and drove away.

WTH? If he indeed had been sober for a couple of weeks, and had been warned not to drink at all if he wanted to see her, why in the world would he drink that very day when he knew she was coming? Is there no rock bottom for these people? No sense of ethics? No compassion for their children?

When my son got angry, all my AXH could say was, "You're just like everyone else. Always judging me." No, he's not just like everyone else. He's your son, damn it, and you are breaking his heart while you destroy your life.
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Old 08-19-2019, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Newlife2019 View Post
Is there no rock bottom for these people? No sense of ethics? No compassion for their children?
Unequivocally, no.

I think with alcoholics/other addicts, all others can really do is detach from the behaviour. There really is no rock bottom.

There is no sense of ethics, no compassion, no integrity in that regard.

Why? Because addiction is selfish to the core. It must be. No one can have a drug as a taskmaster and a psychologically distorting taskmaster at that and be "normal". Just doesn't happen, can't be.

You can't love your drug and all others too. The love of alcohol is held above all others. ALL others.
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Old 08-19-2019, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Newlife2019 View Post
Is there no rock bottom for these people? No sense of ethics? No compassion for their children?
Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. Whatever is really there is buried in addiction right now.
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Old 08-19-2019, 09:53 AM
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NewLife…..I think that everyone here can relate to the bitter disappointment of your son and his daughter.....and, you too--obviously.
For the alcoholic, the compulsion to drink is so strong that it can override the frontal lobes of the brain...where logical thinking is located.....
Your ex husband is only recently out of his second rehab.....
Genuine, lasting recovery takes a much longer time of working a Diligent program.....into years.....

I do think your son handled it in the right way....
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:03 AM
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So the question really, for everyone involved, is if Grandpa or SO or Husband or Wife has integrity and truth and love hidden way way way under an addiction, does it matter?

I suppose it does in that if the "real" person is lurking under that addiction there is always hope. That's up to them though and in the interim they will continue to hurt people because those people will always be secondary.

Addiction, Lies and Relationships

"for the very existence of addiction signifies an allegiance that is at best divided and at worst -and more commonly- betrayed. For there comes a stage in every serious addiction at which the paramount attachment of the addict is to the addiction itself. Those unfortunates who attempt to preserve a human relationship to individuals in the throes of progressive addiction almost always sense their own secondary "less than" status in relation to the addiction - and despite the addict's passionate and indignant denials of this reality, they are right: the addict does indeed love his addiction more than he loves them".
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:21 AM
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In addition to AXH, both of my son's in-laws are alcoholics...one of them is in prison for his 4th DUI and for disabling a breathalizer in his car. My son's wife put herself through college, mothered her younger brother, and is one of the most impressive young women you can imagine.

So, for my adorable granddaughter (age 2), I am the only reliable grandparent---stone-cold sober, conscientious, responsible, and dutiful to a fault.

Alcoholics or not, I simply will never understand how they can choose a toxic liquid over her.
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:31 AM
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NewLife…..of course, you will Never completely understand what it feels like and thinks like to be an alcoholic....Your brain is not like their brain.
Addiction "rewires" the brain....and, that affects every aspect of life....
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Newlife2019 View Post
Is there no rock bottom for these people? No sense of ethics? No compassion for their children?
"These" people?

Wow ok.

I am one of "these" people. I am an alcoholic. I never asked to be, never aspired to be one. But for whatever reason I am one. Maybe I became one or maybe I was born one. That doesn't really matter.

I had a rock bottom so yes , some of "these" people do have them.

Did I have any sense of ethics? I am finding in sobriety that yes I do. Alcohol stripped me of my ethics when I was drinking.

Did I have any compassion for my daughter? Oh yes. I would weep the day after drinking. I would feel so awful, the worst mum in the world, I wanted someone to take her from me and look after her, I wanted so badly to never drink again I hated alcohol but low and behold I would end up with a drink in my hand again and again.

From the Big Book of AA :

An illness of this sort—and we have come to believe it an illness—involves those about us in a way no other human sickness can. If a person has cancer all are sorry for him and no one is angry or hurt. But not so with the alcoholic illness, for with it there goes annihilation of all the things worth while in life. It engulfs all whose lives touch the sufferer’s. It brings misunderstanding, fierce resentment, financial insecurity, disgusted friends and employers, warped lives of blameless children, sad wives and parents—anyone can increase the list."

Thankfully I did have a rock bottom. Well a series of them culminating almost in death and I knew I had to get sober or die. I chose to get sober. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do but also the best thing I have ever done. Alcohol had such a grip on me, I was completely powerless over it. It is hard to explain it to someone who doesn't have it but when the compulsion to drink came on me I felt like a vampire who needed blood to survive. I was so so sick and didn't know it. I wasn't a bad person trying to be good, I was a very very sick person trying to get well and I will always have the disease of alcoholism and I will have to fight it for the rest of my life. It is getting easier now but I still feel the magnetic pull of the poison and I have to take thi gs one day at a time. I thank AA and a spiritual solution for my recovery.

I am sorry you and your family are going through this. Alcoholism is a family illness. It corrodes everything it touches. But please try to have some compassion for your AXH after all he is a human being and a very sick one. I will keep him in my prayers tonight.
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:59 AM
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My father's last relapse was while he was supposed to be taking care of my youngest daughter one afternoon. She was about 7 at the time, and the afternoon was going fine. My dad had a just under a year sober at the time. He was in the kitchen looking for something under the sink, and found a bottle of gin. He said without even thinking about it, he reached for the bottle, and that was all it took. He spent part of the rest of the afternoon in the garage getting soused, while he was supposed to be watching my daughter. Needless to say, the fallout was ugly and severe. My point in this isn't to defend, but to explain how powerful alcoholism can be, even for someone trying to recover. Now, I have no doubt that my dad loves my kids, (he's been in recovery for five years now, very successfully. Totally changed person) but love is no match for alcoholism. It's not a moral failing. But it is a dangerous and potentially lethal addiction if not treated, and like another poster had mentioned, a hard painful "rock bottom" is usually the only thing that will motivate and alcoholic to change. That bottom is different for everyone. My own was a divorce. For some people it's winding up in jail or losing their kids. For others death is the only thing that ends the cycle. I have an acquaintance who has lost just about everything now, and he still won't embrace recovery. I'm not even sure he's going to make it. My heart goes out to you. It's a hard hard thing to watch the wreckage.
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:24 PM
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I'm sure that in the 35 years NewLife was married to her XAH there was a lot of compassion shown.

Above all, compassion for yourself is key in these relationships though.

I guess anyone quitting can call it "rock bottom" there are times people quit that are better or worse depending on where they are at with their addiction. But rock bottom is not a real place. There is no measurement of it.

For one person it might be a realization that they are slipping in their duty to their family. For another it might be living on the street, penniless.

So yes - both of those are "rock bottom" I suppose, if it must have a name.

I also think it's entirely appropriate to use the Friends and Family forum to vent a bit, to people who have been there and understand when perhaps no one else in their lives do or they don't want to burden family members who are also affected.
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:42 PM
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it is a cunning, baffling and powerful disease. the further into the disease one gets, the more twisted the thinking and the farther the departure from sane, lucid or anything remotely near normal it gets. alcoholics are famous for self-sabotage - drinking as the exact wrong moment for all the wrong reasons. and then of course deflecting any blame whatsoever.

not all addicts are so destructive. not all addicts seem intent on causing harm. but over time, with prolonged use the list of those who were harmed keeps on a growing. it surpasses generations.

however for those on the other side - the loved ones - these people are not obligated to have compassion or empathy or keep giving the addict a pass because they have an illness. because they have an illness which can be stopped dead in it's tracks IF they make that choice. but each time they do not? i t reinforces to the loved ones that nope, they really do NOT care enough. they'll just lift another drink to their lips in order to blot us all out. so be it.
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:49 PM
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It has not changed and it never will. I am sorry.
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
I'm sure that in the 35 years NewLife was married to her XAH there was a lot of compassion shown.

Above all, compassion for yourself is key in these relationships though.

I guess anyone quitting can call it "rock bottom" there are times people quit that are better or worse depending on where they are at with their addiction. But rock bottom is not a real place. There is no measurement of it.

For one person it might be a realization that they are slipping in their duty to their family. For another it might be living on the street, penniless.

So yes - both of those are "rock bottom" I suppose, if it must have a name.

I also think it's entirely appropriate to use the Friends and Family forum to vent a bit, to people who have been there and understand when perhaps no one else in their lives do or they don't want to burden family members who are also affected.
Thank you trailmix. I shouldn't have said "these people," so I apologize for that. I was just....angry. I seem to be able to handle the impact on my life but not on my kids' lives.

Yes, I did have compassion for many, many years. I defended him to his employers, to his family, to my family, to neighbors, etc. I left only when I was so emotionally and physically drained I feared for my survival.
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII View Post
however for those on the other side - the loved ones - these people are not obligated to have compassion or empathy or keep giving the addict a pass because they have an illness. because they have an illness which can be stopped dead in it's tracks IF they make that choice. but each time they do not? i t reinforces to the loved ones that nope, they really do NOT care enough. they'll just lift another drink to their lips in order to blot us all out. so be it.
100% AGREED!!!

And biting my tongue bloody....
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Old 08-19-2019, 01:31 PM
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Yes, I did have compassion for many, many years. I defended him to his employers, to his family, to my family, to neighbors, etc. I left only when I was so emotionally and physically drained I feared for my survival.


Hi Newlife,

This sounds familiar familiar to what many go through. What I found in Al-Anon is a completely changed perspective of what kindness is, for myself, the alcoholic and for other family members affected by this family disease of alcoholism.

Compassion/kindness (I prefer the word kindness) can be walking away. It can be understanding my anger and allowing new ways to feel and release it. It can be touching base with alcohol recovery centers, not for the alcoholic but for helping me in understanding the disease and taking an important step of realizing I need these kind of connections.

It is very counterintuitive.

The alcoholic isn't choosing to drink, even though it seems like that. It is a very serious, chronic and progressive illness.

Thank you for posting. I'm glad you're here.
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Old 08-19-2019, 01:50 PM
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Quote: "Compassion/kindness (I prefer the word kindness) can be walking away. "

Yes, I truly thought my leaving would be his "rock bottom." I knew it would devastate him (it has), and I pondered the ethics of that decision for years before I finally did it. I often told others: "Yes, it is not a good life. Yes, I am unhappy. But it would be unethical for me to leave him."

When I could see that he was killing himself, and destroying me at the same time, I knew I had to get out. I finally realized that nothing, absolutely nothing I did made him stop drinking. I thought....maybe...that finally having to fend for himself would lift him out of the abyss, but it has not.

The anger comes when my sons have to endure the heartache and chaos that was part of my life for so long.

And yes, I do continue to feel compassion for him. I do continue to worry about him. I do continue to be plagued by guilt and grief. However, the compassion turns to anger when he hurts my sons, when he drinks and drives drunk and risks others' lives, and when he leaves death threats on my phone.

He is a human being, yes. But so are his sons and the innocent families driving down the road. And so am I.
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Old 08-19-2019, 01:53 PM
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Are you in a recovery program? Celebrate Recovery, Al-Anon, etc.?
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Old 08-19-2019, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Mango212 View Post
Are you in a recovery program? Celebrate Recovery, Al-Anon, etc.?
I have seen a counselor a few times. I probably should do more. I feel great sometimes, but then another "episode" sends me over a cliff. My sons see it and hide most things from me.
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Old 08-19-2019, 02:11 PM
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Posting here is a great step in doing more. Recognizing your feelings, gaining awareness of what's going on and processing these things are huge. Are you currently seeing the counselor?

Baby steps. Easy does it.
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Old 08-19-2019, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Mango212 View Post
Posting here is a great step in doing more. Recognizing your feelings, gaining awareness of what's going on and processing these things are huge. Are you currently seeing the counselor?

Baby steps. Easy does it.
I am not. I mostly just want to move on with my life and forget about it. I'm successful at that....most days. I wish I didn't have to know what's going on with him, but I don't want to turn away from my sons when they want to talk to me about it. (Like I said, most things they keep to themselves.)
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