What to Do Next.
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Join Date: Jun 2019
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My dad has always told me my husband drinks too much. Went so far as to give me print outs on alcoholism 9 years ago (he simply just drank way more than the norm for my family).
But no. I haven’t told my parents the extent of this. I guess I keep wanting to stay quiet about it and maybe it will go away before it’s necessary to say anything to them about it. Ha.
What a mess all of this is. Defining it these past few weeks has completely changed my outlook on mine and my kids future. Ignorance really is bliss.
But no. I haven’t told my parents the extent of this. I guess I keep wanting to stay quiet about it and maybe it will go away before it’s necessary to say anything to them about it. Ha.
What a mess all of this is. Defining it these past few weeks has completely changed my outlook on mine and my kids future. Ignorance really is bliss.
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fwn…...lol...I am going to have to raise the BS flag on the "ignorance is bliss" theory.....(ignorance of the things that affect our best welfare is a false bliss)….
Instead, I propose that Knolwlege is Power....
This is the one that has benefitted me, in my life....
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LOL as I finalized that reply I thought the same thing in my head. Things have NOT been blissful up until I realized he is an alcoholic. I just stupidly thought he could easily make the choice to fix it, and I know now that’s not the case.
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fwn…..I do understand how coming face to face with this stuff is soo very difficult...and, especially, now, with you in your third trimester.....
At one time, I worked in a woman's hospital....lots of deliveries.
It seems that the "nesting instinct" is very strong during the latter months of pregnancy. Most women will work very hard to try and "keep everything together" at this time.....
It makes me very sad to say to you that active alcoholism can tear that all asunder, for many families.... I wish that weren't true....
Alcoholics drink to deal with feelings, at baseline. Having a baby calls for changes and new challenges for all parents...and, alcoholics will, often drink more around the time of delivery...to deal with the feelings that change brings.....
This is the time that a new mother need the support the most....(I have given birth 3 times)….
This may be the time that you will need to level with your parents...so that you can make plans for your delivery.
Whatever decisions you make...you are going to need extra help...that you can depend on...for yourself, the baby and the other kids.....
At one time, I worked in a woman's hospital....lots of deliveries.
It seems that the "nesting instinct" is very strong during the latter months of pregnancy. Most women will work very hard to try and "keep everything together" at this time.....
It makes me very sad to say to you that active alcoholism can tear that all asunder, for many families.... I wish that weren't true....
Alcoholics drink to deal with feelings, at baseline. Having a baby calls for changes and new challenges for all parents...and, alcoholics will, often drink more around the time of delivery...to deal with the feelings that change brings.....
This is the time that a new mother need the support the most....(I have given birth 3 times)….
This may be the time that you will need to level with your parents...so that you can make plans for your delivery.
Whatever decisions you make...you are going to need extra help...that you can depend on...for yourself, the baby and the other kids.....
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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Yes, dandy is right (as usual)
Time to circle the wagons and share the situation with your family.
You need to have things stable and reliable caregivers for the other children right now.
I think you are dealing with a really difficult situation with grace and an open mind. This stuff isn't easy, and you are processing it very quickly from my perspective.
Time to circle the wagons and share the situation with your family.
You need to have things stable and reliable caregivers for the other children right now.
I think you are dealing with a really difficult situation with grace and an open mind. This stuff isn't easy, and you are processing it very quickly from my perspective.
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Join Date: Jun 2019
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Here’s what he sent me tonight (and he has not been drinking at all):
“I was hoping to have more time to work on this, but here is my tentative plan and move out proposal. This is not final but it will not deviate by more than a week.
I will go to at least one AA meeting next week.
Starting the week after, I will attend at least three meetings per week for at least one month.
Within one month from post Disney world, I should have an AA sponsor. I am assuming that this is possible.
During this time I will be shooting for abstinence, but I will have a de-escalating cheat schedule that will be made public and any use of it will be disclosed and documented.
Within the same month I will have an out patient program selected which I will attend ideally within the following month depending upon availability. If I cannot get in than I will continue with the three or more AA sessions a week. Which I may continue to do regardless.
If I cannot accomplish these goals in plus or minus one week after a month from Disney world, then I will look for alternative housing. “
Honestly I have no real response here. Good for you? It’s all just words. But at the same time he’s insisted this time is different because ALL of the other times we’ve fought about this before he’s always said if was me who was the problem, but this time he keeps admitting aloud that he realizes he needs help.
Either way, I’ll have a plan by the end of July which works for me. I absolutely will not continue to live in this house with him if he isn’t choosing sobriety. It’s not the life I want for me or my children and honestly I just don’t have the give a damn to deal with it anymore, the lies and disappointment. I deserve better. WE deserve better.
“I was hoping to have more time to work on this, but here is my tentative plan and move out proposal. This is not final but it will not deviate by more than a week.
I will go to at least one AA meeting next week.
Starting the week after, I will attend at least three meetings per week for at least one month.
Within one month from post Disney world, I should have an AA sponsor. I am assuming that this is possible.
During this time I will be shooting for abstinence, but I will have a de-escalating cheat schedule that will be made public and any use of it will be disclosed and documented.
Within the same month I will have an out patient program selected which I will attend ideally within the following month depending upon availability. If I cannot get in than I will continue with the three or more AA sessions a week. Which I may continue to do regardless.
If I cannot accomplish these goals in plus or minus one week after a month from Disney world, then I will look for alternative housing. “
Honestly I have no real response here. Good for you? It’s all just words. But at the same time he’s insisted this time is different because ALL of the other times we’ve fought about this before he’s always said if was me who was the problem, but this time he keeps admitting aloud that he realizes he needs help.
Either way, I’ll have a plan by the end of July which works for me. I absolutely will not continue to live in this house with him if he isn’t choosing sobriety. It’s not the life I want for me or my children and honestly I just don’t have the give a damn to deal with it anymore, the lies and disappointment. I deserve better. WE deserve better.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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actually you don't NEED to reply at all!!!
cuz really what did he say???
thought he'd have more time......like the past X many years don't count?
tentative plan.....not a real, i'm committed to this NOW plan.
he will attempt to make one whole meeting next week - while you are away. so let's do some math....7 days x 24 hours in a day = 168 hours. and he is sort of kind of committed maybe to devoting 1.5 HOURS of that to one meeting. so not quite 1% of the available hours......
disney world gets some mention but at no time does he state that he will be a sober travel companion. on a family trip.
his plan currently includes continuing to drink. in fact i don't even really know what he means here, and i'm no rookie at this stuff: During this time I will be shooting for abstinence, but I will have a de-escalating cheat schedule that will be made public and any use of it will be disclosed and documented. shooting for abstinence means still drinking. de-escalating also means still drinking.
If I cannot accomplish these goals notice that nowhere does he state a goal of NOT drinking. it's all blah blah blah....and not to steal dandy's thunder but
cuz really what did he say???
thought he'd have more time......like the past X many years don't count?
tentative plan.....not a real, i'm committed to this NOW plan.
he will attempt to make one whole meeting next week - while you are away. so let's do some math....7 days x 24 hours in a day = 168 hours. and he is sort of kind of committed maybe to devoting 1.5 HOURS of that to one meeting. so not quite 1% of the available hours......
disney world gets some mention but at no time does he state that he will be a sober travel companion. on a family trip.
his plan currently includes continuing to drink. in fact i don't even really know what he means here, and i'm no rookie at this stuff: During this time I will be shooting for abstinence, but I will have a de-escalating cheat schedule that will be made public and any use of it will be disclosed and documented. shooting for abstinence means still drinking. de-escalating also means still drinking.
If I cannot accomplish these goals notice that nowhere does he state a goal of NOT drinking. it's all blah blah blah....and not to steal dandy's thunder but
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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He just told you he plans to keep drinking.
"Shooting for abstinence "is a very low bar indeed.
I would reject this and tell him you're not buying what he's selling.
He is trying to buy time and space for his addiction. . .
"Shooting for abstinence "is a very low bar indeed.
I would reject this and tell him you're not buying what he's selling.
He is trying to buy time and space for his addiction. . .
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
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I'm sorry, my friend. He's not ready to do what it takes to quit.
This "plan" tells you everything you need to know and can be translated to read:
"I intend to take as long as possible to avoid doing anything meaningful about my drinking problem until you are completely overwhelmed and distracted with our newborn, and I can get back to my comfortable position of not having to change at all."
This "plan" tells you everything you need to know and can be translated to read:
"I intend to take as long as possible to avoid doing anything meaningful about my drinking problem until you are completely overwhelmed and distracted with our newborn, and I can get back to my comfortable position of not having to change at all."
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Aw FWN
Sorry for what brings you here, but your wisdom in finding a good resource is outstanding.
As far as your husband's written "plan" (that was symbolically written in pencil), you know that's his plan, not yours. So, you have no obligation or responsibility to say anything about it.
Since future- tripping is unhealthy for you and the children, perhaps focusing on your own recovery may be better use of your time and energy. Alcoholism is a family disease, and its effects creep into the best of us, disarming the best parts of ourselves.
What beautiful experience did you and your pregnant self have today?
As far as your husband's written "plan" (that was symbolically written in pencil), you know that's his plan, not yours. So, you have no obligation or responsibility to say anything about it.
Since future- tripping is unhealthy for you and the children, perhaps focusing on your own recovery may be better use of your time and energy. Alcoholism is a family disease, and its effects creep into the best of us, disarming the best parts of ourselves.
What beautiful experience did you and your pregnant self have today?
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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fortworthnative…..Here is my particular take on your husband's written plans.....
It is his recovery....as we say on this forum, all the time. He is going to do what he really is ready or wants to do...no matter what you feel about it.
My guess is that he is pretty much in the dark about what life-long abstainence/recovery really entails, at this point. He will learn, however.
I am, also, guessing that he is scared to death....Scared of what life will be like if he doesn't have his usual coping tool...like a fish would be scared of living in a dry fish bowl.
And, scared of losing his status-quo with his family....
He will find out more of the reality as he goes forward.
My suggestion, going forward, for you, is this---Keep to your boundaries, to protect yourself as things go forward...."I will not live in the same house with a drunk partner" as you have already stated, is one....
Try not to get involved with his management of his drinking...that is not a role that will work...try not to be his "therapist".....this will only lead to resentments, down the road, for both of you....and, probably lead to many arguments, in the process....And, there is no need for excessive praising of him, either. He doesn't need a cheerleader...he has his own recovery people for that purpose. You will do well just to get out of his way and not be obstructive.
I can't remember if you go to alanon...but, that would be a good idea, I think. They can help support you through all this and help you will coping tools as well as helping you to develop insight into your own self....
Regardless of how the future unfolds...you deserve to have a peaceful delivery and post-partum period...because these kinds of memories, you carry for a lifetime.....
It is his recovery....as we say on this forum, all the time. He is going to do what he really is ready or wants to do...no matter what you feel about it.
My guess is that he is pretty much in the dark about what life-long abstainence/recovery really entails, at this point. He will learn, however.
I am, also, guessing that he is scared to death....Scared of what life will be like if he doesn't have his usual coping tool...like a fish would be scared of living in a dry fish bowl.
And, scared of losing his status-quo with his family....
He will find out more of the reality as he goes forward.
My suggestion, going forward, for you, is this---Keep to your boundaries, to protect yourself as things go forward...."I will not live in the same house with a drunk partner" as you have already stated, is one....
Try not to get involved with his management of his drinking...that is not a role that will work...try not to be his "therapist".....this will only lead to resentments, down the road, for both of you....and, probably lead to many arguments, in the process....And, there is no need for excessive praising of him, either. He doesn't need a cheerleader...he has his own recovery people for that purpose. You will do well just to get out of his way and not be obstructive.
I can't remember if you go to alanon...but, that would be a good idea, I think. They can help support you through all this and help you will coping tools as well as helping you to develop insight into your own self....
Regardless of how the future unfolds...you deserve to have a peaceful delivery and post-partum period...because these kinds of memories, you carry for a lifetime.....
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Join Date: May 2010
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Dandylion's post is spot on.
Ahhh, I remember the little cheat sheet. My X had one of those during the time he was trying to convince me he was all Ok and going to change his ways. I went along with it. Of course, he cheated on his own cheat sheet LOL. The garage was filled with booze, and I was filled with anxiety, anger, fear, an entire gammit of this horrible feeling in my gut, every second of the day.
I think you should be honest with your family, it's clear they already think he has a problem anyways. The day I stopped covering for my X and being honest because I needed a support system, it all changed. The focus was put where it belonged, on me getting stronger and healthier for my children and myself. You deserve that. It will change your life.
Sending big hugs!
Ahhh, I remember the little cheat sheet. My X had one of those during the time he was trying to convince me he was all Ok and going to change his ways. I went along with it. Of course, he cheated on his own cheat sheet LOL. The garage was filled with booze, and I was filled with anxiety, anger, fear, an entire gammit of this horrible feeling in my gut, every second of the day.
I think you should be honest with your family, it's clear they already think he has a problem anyways. The day I stopped covering for my X and being honest because I needed a support system, it all changed. The focus was put where it belonged, on me getting stronger and healthier for my children and myself. You deserve that. It will change your life.
Sending big hugs!
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Here’s what he sent me tonight (and he has not been drinking at all):
It’s kind of like this, right now there is you, the husband you fell in love with and married and the alcoholic all involved in this marriage. You want, wish and hope you are talking with the man you fell in love with but the reality is, you are talking to, negotiating with and planning your future with an active alcoholic who’s only goal right now is to continue to drink.
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He emailed our therapist this morning asking for advice on how to get through to me that he cannot just 'fix this over night' and he 'needs more time.' He's MOST hung up on the idea that he's going to do his best to not drink but he knows he's going to screw up and then I'm going to leave and he wants to make sure he has 'chances' without 'me tearing our family apart.' He says I'm setting him up for failure by saying zero tolerance....................... I just don't even know how to respond to that. He hasn't even begun the process of getting tools (sponsor, resources, etc) and he's already talking about failure. How about talking to THEM about how to NOT FAIL.
The one AA meeting he went to after his DWI he says everyone in there was on their second or third time getting X chip and he just feels like he's going to fail and lose everything.
What do I say to that. I don't even want to be involved in whatever path he plans to take to not drink. It's frigging exhausting. Do it or don't dude, is that too harsh?! Just choose NOT to drink.
The one AA meeting he went to after his DWI he says everyone in there was on their second or third time getting X chip and he just feels like he's going to fail and lose everything.
What do I say to that. I don't even want to be involved in whatever path he plans to take to not drink. It's frigging exhausting. Do it or don't dude, is that too harsh?! Just choose NOT to drink.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
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While I don't think it is as easy as just choosing not to drink, your instinct to stay out of his recovery (or lack thereof) is spot on.
This is avoidant behavior, and moreover, he's striving for someone to validate the avoidance. There is literally no reason he cannot start implementing a recovery plan right now--except that it is too frightening for him.
There's a reason the phrase "one day at a time" is so important to recovery. He is future tripping and using it as an excuse not to even start.
This is avoidant behavior, and moreover, he's striving for someone to validate the avoidance. There is literally no reason he cannot start implementing a recovery plan right now--except that it is too frightening for him.
There's a reason the phrase "one day at a time" is so important to recovery. He is future tripping and using it as an excuse not to even start.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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Your talk about the list brought to mind something else.
My ex FIL had a chore (and I think rules) list for his younger children. It was glued to the kitchen cabinet door (yes glued!). Right there for all to see.
He was an incredibly controlling (and abusive) person and looking back that sheet of paper was really no more than a list of control.
Your husband's plan sheet is just a list of control. He is not willing/able to quit drinking right now. He's juggling and all the balls are dropping so he will write up this sheet and gather his defenses (therapist) to try to control you and this situation.
Firehouse management.
You and I can understand why he is doing this. Desperate to keep drinking, desperate to maintain the status quo with you. That doesn't make it right.
And that, of course, is where you come in.
Do or don't - you ask if that is too harsh? Is that your boundary? You do not want to live in a house with someone who is in active alcoholism. If so then that is your boundary, period. There is no room for negotiation there.
Perhaps ask yourself, in all his firehouse management is he putting you and the kids first? Has he discussed his concern about the children growing up in a house where the focus is his alcoholism? Has he discussed the fact it's not fair to you or the kids? Showed genuine concern about how his drinking is affecting all of you?
You need to look out for yourself, that's not mean or selfish, that's wise.
My ex FIL had a chore (and I think rules) list for his younger children. It was glued to the kitchen cabinet door (yes glued!). Right there for all to see.
He was an incredibly controlling (and abusive) person and looking back that sheet of paper was really no more than a list of control.
Your husband's plan sheet is just a list of control. He is not willing/able to quit drinking right now. He's juggling and all the balls are dropping so he will write up this sheet and gather his defenses (therapist) to try to control you and this situation.
Firehouse management.
You and I can understand why he is doing this. Desperate to keep drinking, desperate to maintain the status quo with you. That doesn't make it right.
And that, of course, is where you come in.
Do or don't - you ask if that is too harsh? Is that your boundary? You do not want to live in a house with someone who is in active alcoholism. If so then that is your boundary, period. There is no room for negotiation there.
Perhaps ask yourself, in all his firehouse management is he putting you and the kids first? Has he discussed his concern about the children growing up in a house where the focus is his alcoholism? Has he discussed the fact it's not fair to you or the kids? Showed genuine concern about how his drinking is affecting all of you?
You need to look out for yourself, that's not mean or selfish, that's wise.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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FWN, there isn't anything you can say or do that will make him see the light. That bulb has to go on in his own head. He's not there yet.
At the moment he is only considering kinda, sorta, moderating and maybe tapering away to nothing eventually some distant day in the future. And he is only saying that because it's what he thinks will appease you enough to keep you around... and trying to guilt you about it. He is a desperate man who wants to have his cake and eat it too, while being told he is a good boy for trying what he hasn't managed to do.... yeah, it's warped thinking, it's alcoholic "logic".
No matter what you want for him to do, he is going to do what he is going to do. He is an alcoholic, booze is a legal substance and he is actually legally allowed to drink his self to death. Of course no one wants that to happen, but its a sad fact.
Don't let his attempt to guilt trip you work. It's his manipulative way of trying to control you and get the outcome he wants. His actions or in-actions and consequences there of, are for him to bear. Not you! He may not want to own that, but you certainly don't have to. You both get to make your decisions and live the life that comes from those choices, whatever they may be.
I spent far too many years stuck in an unhealthy marriage to an alcoholic because of the F.O.G. ( fear, obligation, guilt). I really hope you don't follow in my footsteps. I got very sick with an anxiety disorder because of my codependence. I thought I was going crazy, I suppose I was in a way. I certainly wasn't healthy.
I hope you set healthy boundaries for yourself and your children, regardless of how he feels about it. He shouldn't get a (manipulative) say in what you need to do for you, married or not. It seems like you may still be spending a lot of your energy trying to figure him out, please turn that energy on yourself, not as his wife, but as your own caretaker.
Take good care. *hugs*
At the moment he is only considering kinda, sorta, moderating and maybe tapering away to nothing eventually some distant day in the future. And he is only saying that because it's what he thinks will appease you enough to keep you around... and trying to guilt you about it. He is a desperate man who wants to have his cake and eat it too, while being told he is a good boy for trying what he hasn't managed to do.... yeah, it's warped thinking, it's alcoholic "logic".
No matter what you want for him to do, he is going to do what he is going to do. He is an alcoholic, booze is a legal substance and he is actually legally allowed to drink his self to death. Of course no one wants that to happen, but its a sad fact.
Don't let his attempt to guilt trip you work. It's his manipulative way of trying to control you and get the outcome he wants. His actions or in-actions and consequences there of, are for him to bear. Not you! He may not want to own that, but you certainly don't have to. You both get to make your decisions and live the life that comes from those choices, whatever they may be.
I spent far too many years stuck in an unhealthy marriage to an alcoholic because of the F.O.G. ( fear, obligation, guilt). I really hope you don't follow in my footsteps. I got very sick with an anxiety disorder because of my codependence. I thought I was going crazy, I suppose I was in a way. I certainly wasn't healthy.
I hope you set healthy boundaries for yourself and your children, regardless of how he feels about it. He shouldn't get a (manipulative) say in what you need to do for you, married or not. It seems like you may still be spending a lot of your energy trying to figure him out, please turn that energy on yourself, not as his wife, but as your own caretaker.
Take good care. *hugs*
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fortworthnative…...I think he will be ready when he is ever ready....
Reading over in the alcoholism sections, it becomes evident that reaching for abstainence and life-long recovery is a mighty difficult journey.
While the nature and course of alcoholism can be described...every alcoholic is a different personality.
Just like every person who comes on this forum is on a different time line...so is every struggling alcoholic....
The active alcoholic cannot imagine life without ever taking another drink...not until sobriety looks better than being drunk....(I don't say this..I have heard alcoholics say this)...and, that moment in time can be different and for different reasons for each alcoholic....
He will do it, or not do it on his own timeline....he will learn what he needs to learn on his own dime. You cannot control how he feels and how he thinks....
no matter how badly you want to...or how right you feel that your motives are...
He is, ultimately, in charge of him....just as you are in charge of you...
It is said that the fondest wish of every alcoholic is to be able to drink like "normal"--non-alcoholic people....and that wish is the hardest thing to give up. He will have to learn, on his own, that "One drink is too much and a hundred are not enough"...….There is no way that you can pound that into his head by telling him to "just don't drink"....You will just exhaust yourself and drive you own self Krazy by beating your head against a brick wall...
Your task is to take care of your own welfare by establishing boundaries for what you can and will be able to live with.....
***Don't expect him to necessarily like your boundaries or to agree or cooperate with you....
Your boundaries are about what you will do or behave...not "rules" for him to obey.....
By the way.....you are not "tearing the family apart".....don't let him put that on you. The alcoholism (and any other issues between you) have brought damage to the family.
Just having all persons under one roof...does not a family, make. It is the connections between people that make a family.
The way I look at it---if it does matter enough for him to have everyone under one roof...then, that might become the motivation for him to eventually get into genuine recovery....but, he will do it on his own timeline....
Reading over in the alcoholism sections, it becomes evident that reaching for abstainence and life-long recovery is a mighty difficult journey.
While the nature and course of alcoholism can be described...every alcoholic is a different personality.
Just like every person who comes on this forum is on a different time line...so is every struggling alcoholic....
The active alcoholic cannot imagine life without ever taking another drink...not until sobriety looks better than being drunk....(I don't say this..I have heard alcoholics say this)...and, that moment in time can be different and for different reasons for each alcoholic....
He will do it, or not do it on his own timeline....he will learn what he needs to learn on his own dime. You cannot control how he feels and how he thinks....
no matter how badly you want to...or how right you feel that your motives are...
He is, ultimately, in charge of him....just as you are in charge of you...
It is said that the fondest wish of every alcoholic is to be able to drink like "normal"--non-alcoholic people....and that wish is the hardest thing to give up. He will have to learn, on his own, that "One drink is too much and a hundred are not enough"...….There is no way that you can pound that into his head by telling him to "just don't drink"....You will just exhaust yourself and drive you own self Krazy by beating your head against a brick wall...
Your task is to take care of your own welfare by establishing boundaries for what you can and will be able to live with.....
***Don't expect him to necessarily like your boundaries or to agree or cooperate with you....
Your boundaries are about what you will do or behave...not "rules" for him to obey.....
By the way.....you are not "tearing the family apart".....don't let him put that on you. The alcoholism (and any other issues between you) have brought damage to the family.
Just having all persons under one roof...does not a family, make. It is the connections between people that make a family.
The way I look at it---if it does matter enough for him to have everyone under one roof...then, that might become the motivation for him to eventually get into genuine recovery....but, he will do it on his own timeline....
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Join Date: May 2012
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Originally Posted by fortworthnative 
He hasn't even begun the process of getting tools (sponsor, resources, etc) and he's already talking about failure.
He's not ready; he hasn't reached Surrender yet.
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