Turns up at my door....and yet I feel bad.
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty 
When I finally established boundaries with my XABF, it took a few interactions for him to really get the picture. There is no way to predict this, there are too many factors all swirling around how desperate he gets and how deep in denial of his own issues he is.
All you can do is prepare yourself for what you will do if he returns. Make sure your supports are in place and remind yourself that you have made a healthy decision by protecting your boundaries and your heart from this toxic user. After that, try to relax and live your life. Stop letting him live rent-free in your head all the time.
All you can do is prepare yourself for what you will do if he returns. Make sure your supports are in place and remind yourself that you have made a healthy decision by protecting your boundaries and your heart from this toxic user. After that, try to relax and live your life. Stop letting him live rent-free in your head all the time.
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Originally Posted by Bekindalways
Yes. Yes, you did. I'm sure it feels like crap.
Courage to you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Courage to you. Keep doing the next right thing.
There's no benefit to anyone in lying. I was in tears last night thinking about it. Turning him away has left me emotionally hurt this week. Doesn't mean I regret it. Just stating how one is affected by an alcoholic. He has moved on to his next enabler now. I will flourish again but it's ok to feel how I feel.
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Join Date: Aug 2017
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Originally Posted by Glenjo99
This has triggered anxiety for me this week. I don't like the not knowing where he is especially if he is close by. I read somewhere today that, if an alcoholic has been rejected he won't go to the same person/place again because the potential of being rejected again would be too great for them. Is this true?
Does anyone have experience of this, I suppose what I'm trying to guage is, will he leave me alone now after refusing him entry on Tuesday night? Or is there a chance he will try contact again.
Does anyone have experience of this, I suppose what I'm trying to guage is, will he leave me alone now after refusing him entry on Tuesday night? Or is there a chance he will try contact again.
Also, the bit about the razor blade. Please. There are so many other faster ways to die (the drinking alone will eventually do it... and there are a number of people whose addicted significant others have died either by accident or intent that him asking for a razor blade is really tasteless). Trying to manipulate another person by threatening suicide is really low.
He wants you to feel bad because you basically said, "I'm not a hotel".
"Can you give me a razor blade to kill myself?"
[Translation] "You won't give me your lunch money? I'm going to hurt you and make you cry." [His brain is 13 years old.]
Don't feel bad!
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Originally Posted by OpheliaKatz
I don't know... but an abuser will not leave you alone until they have a new target to control. If you are really concerned, you could do a number of things to stay safe: security cameras... going to the police... etc. If he's just an alcoholic trying to manipulate you, he's not likely to come around again and waste his time if you are saying "no".
Also, the bit about the razor blade. Please. There are so many other faster ways to die (the drinking alone will eventually do it... and there are a number of people whose addicted significant others have died either by accident or intent that him asking for a razor blade is really tasteless). Trying to manipulate another person by threatening suicide is really low.
He wants you to feel bad because you basically said, "I'm not a hotel".
"Can you give me a razor blade to kill myself?"
[Translation] "You won't give me your lunch money? I'm going to hurt you and make you cry." [His brain is 13 years old.]
Don't feel bad!
Also, the bit about the razor blade. Please. There are so many other faster ways to die (the drinking alone will eventually do it... and there are a number of people whose addicted significant others have died either by accident or intent that him asking for a razor blade is really tasteless). Trying to manipulate another person by threatening suicide is really low.
He wants you to feel bad because you basically said, "I'm not a hotel".
"Can you give me a razor blade to kill myself?"
[Translation] "You won't give me your lunch money? I'm going to hurt you and make you cry." [His brain is 13 years old.]
Don't feel bad!
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,146
Originally Posted by Glenjo99
I expect he has a new target, problem female who has fallen for his charm.
No, don't call her a problem female. Cause otherwise you were also a problem female. You were not a problem. And there is nothing wrong with being female. HE was the problem. You were in love.
The culture we often live in tells females to "make the relationship work". In fact historically making the relationship/marriage work was often the unofficial "job" of the female in the relationship/marriage. Also many children are brought up to seek validation from outside sources -- and this disproportionately affects females because of the historical and/or current expectations that surround females and relationship management (and by "historical" I am talking about recent history). Even your female friends might criticize you for not being normative -- just see what happens when you're in your 40s or 50s and you decide to stop dying your hair... suddenly you'll find out things about your best girlfriends that you had not known before... like, they think you're going to be "ugly" because it will look "old".
For centuries females were caretakers... and in so many cases still are (for children or elderly parents). There may be biological reasons that is the case (because of sexual selection... but I'm not a biologist so I don't know) or (I believe) cultural reasons, which are surprisingly hard to change and probably won't change in our lifetimes.
There are also adverse consequences current gender dynamics for males too. The one I can think of is that men have a higher rate of substance abuse than woman... and personally I think it is because culture downplays the significance of relationship management for males, and so with a weaker emotional support system, they might self-medicate.
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicatio...-substance-use
The fact that many boys are often shamed for displaying "feminine" emotions, like crying, can mean that when they grow up, some men think that expressing anger, or violence towards others or themsevles are suitable alternatives. This sort of thing causes human beings to become stunted: on the inside, most people are either playing with doll houses or toy soldiers and want their Mom to pick them up from work... even though they are 50 and Mom is almost 80. (I'm not a psychologist). It's 2018 and I know someone who gave her daughter a "male" name because she didn't want her to grow up "girly"... but when she had twin boys, she said that she saw them punching each other in the womb via ultrasound, and it made her so proud to see that they were going to be real "tough guys". What do tough guys do? Punch each other. Drink beer. Get girls. Do you see a problem here?
That HIS issues turned your ability to care, which is a valuable skill, into codependency is not your fault. The choices we make once we can see the forest for the trees, is our responsibility.
The new enabler is probably not more "problematic" than his last one. Nor was the last one more "problematic" than the one he had before (whoever that was). My ex was milking a religious group to support his addiction -- the group wasn't problematic in any way... but they were giving charity to someone they thought was "mentally ill". It's called "grooming", something that abusers do... and it seems, some addicts. It's a manipulation tactic, very low.
Few people know what addiction is like until they live through it, with it, or near it. If you just know it from hearing stories, you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg (there was a woman on this forum whose ailing alcoholic father ended up in hospital, and the doctor called her and scolded her for not "caring for him". Doctor Fail.). Unless you live totally sheltered from reality (like maybe, that doctor), your life will become problematic on some level regarding some things as you age; and being lied to and taken advantage of by someone you trust is going to mess up your perception of reality as well as your ability to trust in that perception in future.
You know stuff now. You can trust yourself. You can just shut that door and say, "not my circus, not my monkey." You know why? Cause you were NEVER the problem; you were carrying HIS problems, which were not yours to carry.
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Glenjo, if he decides to show up at your doorstep again threatening suicide, nothing is stopping you from calling 999 and asking for assistance. If his claim of suicidal thoughts is legitimate (which I doubt), you've given him access to the professional help he needs. If he's playing you, then you've given him some additional consequences that underscore the fact that he can't spend his entire life wheedling other folks so he can continue his love affair with the bottle.
I may have told you this once, but my mom once threatened suicide when my dad wanted to leave the house for a couple hours. I called the authorities, and she ended up getting a psych eval. She and my dad were angry beyond belief. However, it showed her that she could never pull a stunt like that again.
I may have told you this once, but my mom once threatened suicide when my dad wanted to leave the house for a couple hours. I called the authorities, and she ended up getting a psych eval. She and my dad were angry beyond belief. However, it showed her that she could never pull a stunt like that again.
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Posts: 453
Hi, I've been reading your thread and really feel for you.
I wanted to share my experience.
I had a co-worker who relapsed and as a result lost her sober living housing and lost her job. She and I had always been friendly at work, so she called me up and demanded that I let her stay with me. I said no (partly because I had a bunch of roommates and that wouldn't be fair to them and partly because I didn't know her well and didn't have a good feeling about her staying with me). I did offer to drive her to her dad's house (about two hours away, they seemed to have a good relationship), but she was furious with me for saying no and blamed all of her troubles on me. I didn't care, the world was cruel, etc.
I felt terrible and carried around a lot of guilt. Someone saw her panhandling for change a few blocks from where we worked. It was very sad.
But here's what I tried to keep focus on. (I'm also a recovered alcoholic, so I can see both sides of the story.) She made the choice to drink. She lived life in such a way as to alienate most people in her life. She was not kind or respectful, she was sullen and demanding. Why would I want to let someone like that live with me?
There are many of my friends I would drop everything to help. Those are the people who are kind to me and who I trust. She was not one of them.
I felt guilty because I don't like seeing people suffer, but at the same time, their bad choices are not my responsibility.
He's your ex, right? Can you imagine showing up at your ex's house demanding anything? Doesn't he have family or friends who can help? If he's burned all his bridges, that's on him. Not you.
And you feel bad because you're a kind human being. I suspect in other situations, you would let a true friend stay with you if needed. This isn't one of those situations. Saying no is hard, but he is manipulating you and doesn't have your best interests at heart. He's using you. You've done nothing wrong.
I hope you can regain your peace.
But I repeat, his bad choices are not your responsibility.
Take care.
I wanted to share my experience.
I had a co-worker who relapsed and as a result lost her sober living housing and lost her job. She and I had always been friendly at work, so she called me up and demanded that I let her stay with me. I said no (partly because I had a bunch of roommates and that wouldn't be fair to them and partly because I didn't know her well and didn't have a good feeling about her staying with me). I did offer to drive her to her dad's house (about two hours away, they seemed to have a good relationship), but she was furious with me for saying no and blamed all of her troubles on me. I didn't care, the world was cruel, etc.
I felt terrible and carried around a lot of guilt. Someone saw her panhandling for change a few blocks from where we worked. It was very sad.
But here's what I tried to keep focus on. (I'm also a recovered alcoholic, so I can see both sides of the story.) She made the choice to drink. She lived life in such a way as to alienate most people in her life. She was not kind or respectful, she was sullen and demanding. Why would I want to let someone like that live with me?
There are many of my friends I would drop everything to help. Those are the people who are kind to me and who I trust. She was not one of them.
I felt guilty because I don't like seeing people suffer, but at the same time, their bad choices are not my responsibility.
He's your ex, right? Can you imagine showing up at your ex's house demanding anything? Doesn't he have family or friends who can help? If he's burned all his bridges, that's on him. Not you.
And you feel bad because you're a kind human being. I suspect in other situations, you would let a true friend stay with you if needed. This isn't one of those situations. Saying no is hard, but he is manipulating you and doesn't have your best interests at heart. He's using you. You've done nothing wrong.
I hope you can regain your peace.
But I repeat, his bad choices are not your responsibility.
Take care.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,648
Originally Posted by Glenjo99
Feels so like crap. Ok next right thing.
There's no benefit to anyone in lying. I was in tears last night thinking about it. Turning him away has left me emotionally hurt this week. Doesn't mean I regret it. Just stating how one is affected by an alcoholic. He has moved on to his next enabler now. I will flourish again but it's ok to feel how I feel.
There's no benefit to anyone in lying. I was in tears last night thinking about it. Turning him away has left me emotionally hurt this week. Doesn't mean I regret it. Just stating how one is affected by an alcoholic. He has moved on to his next enabler now. I will flourish again but it's ok to feel how I feel.
You had hopes for that relationship and it was not sustainable - nothing great about that. Then when he, at least appears, to be in real trouble, you make the right choice and send him on his way.
NONE of that is good, or fun or reassuring or nice, so feeling bad is normal.
However, you will get past this. This isn't the first time he has appeared or called or whatever and it may not be the last, but you will get through it. One thing you may want to do is to try to harden your heart a bit toward him though. While he does need compassion he doesn't need anyone sacrificing themselves for him, that helps no one.
He'll get through this, without you, perhaps even in a better way.
From "play the tape forward", if you had let him in he would be sitting there right now (or still asleep and hung over) you would be supporting him financially, he would be asking for money for alcohol, you would be arguing. He would be going out trying to get money/alcohol from wherever and whomever he could, including the latest non-girlfriend.
It wouldn't be late night heartfelt chats around the fireplace.
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Turning him away has left me emotionally hurt this week.
we tend to project how we would feel in a situation upon the other. you are assuming that he "feels" abandoned, turned away, discounted and discarded. those are YOUR feelings. not his.
yours was not the only door to which he presented himself. your home was not his only safe harbor. he is nothing short of resourceful. if he feels anything it's that he didn't get his way. and how dare you refuse him.
just as you physically shut the door, you must now mentally do so as well. what's that song??? now you're just somebody that i used to know.
we tend to project how we would feel in a situation upon the other. you are assuming that he "feels" abandoned, turned away, discounted and discarded. those are YOUR feelings. not his.
yours was not the only door to which he presented himself. your home was not his only safe harbor. he is nothing short of resourceful. if he feels anything it's that he didn't get his way. and how dare you refuse him.
just as you physically shut the door, you must now mentally do so as well. what's that song??? now you're just somebody that i used to know.
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Posts: 1,355
Originally Posted by OpheliaKatz
This is long, if you don't feel like reading this... um... essay, just read the parts in bold.
No, don't call her a problem female. Cause otherwise you were also a problem female. You were not a problem. And there is nothing wrong with being female. HE was the problem. You were in love.
The culture we often live in tells females to "make the relationship work". In fact historically making the relationship/marriage work was often the unofficial "job" of the female in the relationship/marriage. Also many children are brought up to seek validation from outside sources -- and this disproportionately affects females because of the historical and/or current expectations that surround females and relationship management (and by "historical" I am talking about recent history). Even your female friends might criticize you for not being normative -- just see what happens when you're in your 40s or 50s and you decide to stop dying your hair... suddenly you'll find out things about your best girlfriends that you had not known before... like, they think you're going to be "ugly" because it will look "old".
For centuries females were caretakers... and in so many cases still are (for children or elderly parents). There may be biological reasons that is the case (because of sexual selection... but I'm not a biologist so I don't know) or (I believe) cultural reasons, which are surprisingly hard to change and probably won't change in our lifetimes.
There are also adverse consequences current gender dynamics for males too. The one I can think of is that men have a higher rate of substance abuse than woman... and personally I think it is because culture downplays the significance of relationship management for males, and so with a weaker emotional support system, they might self-medicate.
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicatio...-substance-use
The fact that many boys are often shamed for displaying "feminine" emotions, like crying, can mean that when they grow up, some men think that expressing anger, or violence towards others or themsevles are suitable alternatives. This sort of thing causes human beings to become stunted: on the inside, most people are either playing with doll houses or toy soldiers and want their Mom to pick them up from work... even though they are 50 and Mom is almost 80. (I'm not a psychologist). It's 2018 and I know someone who gave her daughter a "male" name because she didn't want her to grow up "girly"... but when she had twin boys, she said that she saw them punching each other in the womb via ultrasound, and it made her so proud to see that they were going to be real "tough guys". What do tough guys do? Punch each other. Drink beer. Get girls. Do you see a problem here?
That HIS issues turned your ability to care, which is a valuable skill, into codependency is not your fault. The choices we make once we can see the forest for the trees, is our responsibility.
The new enabler is probably not more "problematic" than his last one. Nor was the last one more "problematic" than the one he had before (whoever that was). My ex was milking a religious group to support his addiction -- the group wasn't problematic in any way... but they were giving charity to someone they thought was "mentally ill". It's called "grooming", something that abusers do... and it seems, some addicts. It's a manipulation tactic, very low.
Few people know what addiction is like until they live through it, with it, or near it. If you just know it from hearing stories, you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg (there was a woman on this forum whose ailing alcoholic father ended up in hospital, and the doctor called her and scolded her for not "caring for him". Doctor Fail.). Unless you live totally sheltered from reality (like maybe, that doctor), your life will become problematic on some level regarding some things as you age; and being lied to and taken advantage of by someone you trust is going to mess up your perception of reality as well as your ability to trust in that perception in future.
You know stuff now. You can trust yourself. You can just shut that door and say, "not my circus, not my monkey." You know why? Cause you were NEVER the problem; you were carrying HIS problems, which were not yours to carry.
No, don't call her a problem female. Cause otherwise you were also a problem female. You were not a problem. And there is nothing wrong with being female. HE was the problem. You were in love.
The culture we often live in tells females to "make the relationship work". In fact historically making the relationship/marriage work was often the unofficial "job" of the female in the relationship/marriage. Also many children are brought up to seek validation from outside sources -- and this disproportionately affects females because of the historical and/or current expectations that surround females and relationship management (and by "historical" I am talking about recent history). Even your female friends might criticize you for not being normative -- just see what happens when you're in your 40s or 50s and you decide to stop dying your hair... suddenly you'll find out things about your best girlfriends that you had not known before... like, they think you're going to be "ugly" because it will look "old".
For centuries females were caretakers... and in so many cases still are (for children or elderly parents). There may be biological reasons that is the case (because of sexual selection... but I'm not a biologist so I don't know) or (I believe) cultural reasons, which are surprisingly hard to change and probably won't change in our lifetimes.
There are also adverse consequences current gender dynamics for males too. The one I can think of is that men have a higher rate of substance abuse than woman... and personally I think it is because culture downplays the significance of relationship management for males, and so with a weaker emotional support system, they might self-medicate.
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicatio...-substance-use
The fact that many boys are often shamed for displaying "feminine" emotions, like crying, can mean that when they grow up, some men think that expressing anger, or violence towards others or themsevles are suitable alternatives. This sort of thing causes human beings to become stunted: on the inside, most people are either playing with doll houses or toy soldiers and want their Mom to pick them up from work... even though they are 50 and Mom is almost 80. (I'm not a psychologist). It's 2018 and I know someone who gave her daughter a "male" name because she didn't want her to grow up "girly"... but when she had twin boys, she said that she saw them punching each other in the womb via ultrasound, and it made her so proud to see that they were going to be real "tough guys". What do tough guys do? Punch each other. Drink beer. Get girls. Do you see a problem here?
That HIS issues turned your ability to care, which is a valuable skill, into codependency is not your fault. The choices we make once we can see the forest for the trees, is our responsibility.
The new enabler is probably not more "problematic" than his last one. Nor was the last one more "problematic" than the one he had before (whoever that was). My ex was milking a religious group to support his addiction -- the group wasn't problematic in any way... but they were giving charity to someone they thought was "mentally ill". It's called "grooming", something that abusers do... and it seems, some addicts. It's a manipulation tactic, very low.
Few people know what addiction is like until they live through it, with it, or near it. If you just know it from hearing stories, you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg (there was a woman on this forum whose ailing alcoholic father ended up in hospital, and the doctor called her and scolded her for not "caring for him". Doctor Fail.). Unless you live totally sheltered from reality (like maybe, that doctor), your life will become problematic on some level regarding some things as you age; and being lied to and taken advantage of by someone you trust is going to mess up your perception of reality as well as your ability to trust in that perception in future.
You know stuff now. You can trust yourself. You can just shut that door and say, "not my circus, not my monkey." You know why? Cause you were NEVER the problem; you were carrying HIS problems, which were not yours to carry.
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Originally Posted by CupofJoe
Hi, I've been reading your thread and really feel for you.
I wanted to share my experience.
I had a co-worker who relapsed and as a result lost her sober living housing and lost her job. She and I had always been friendly at work, so she called me up and demanded that I let her stay with me. I said no (partly because I had a bunch of roommates and that wouldn't be fair to them and partly because I didn't know her well and didn't have a good feeling about her staying with me). I did offer to drive her to her dad's house (about two hours away, they seemed to have a good relationship), but she was furious with me for saying no and blamed all of her troubles on me. I didn't care, the world was cruel, etc.
I felt terrible and carried around a lot of guilt. Someone saw her panhandling for change a few blocks from where we worked. It was very sad.
But here's what I tried to keep focus on. (I'm also a recovered alcoholic, so I can see both sides of the story.) She made the choice to drink. She lived life in such a way as to alienate most people in her life. She was not kind or respectful, she was sullen and demanding. Why would I want to let someone like that live with me?
There are many of my friends I would drop everything to help. Those are the people who are kind to me and who I trust. She was not one of them.
I felt guilty because I don't like seeing people suffer, but at the same time, their bad choices are not my responsibility.
He's your ex, right? Can you imagine showing up at your ex's house demanding anything? Doesn't he have family or friends who can help? If he's burned all his bridges, that's on him. Not you.
And you feel bad because you're a kind human being. I suspect in other situations, you would let a true friend stay with you if needed. This isn't one of those situations. Saying no is hard, but he is manipulating you and doesn't have your best interests at heart. He's using you. You've done nothing wrong.
I hope you can regain your peace.
But I repeat, his bad choices are not your responsibility.
Take care.
I wanted to share my experience.
I had a co-worker who relapsed and as a result lost her sober living housing and lost her job. She and I had always been friendly at work, so she called me up and demanded that I let her stay with me. I said no (partly because I had a bunch of roommates and that wouldn't be fair to them and partly because I didn't know her well and didn't have a good feeling about her staying with me). I did offer to drive her to her dad's house (about two hours away, they seemed to have a good relationship), but she was furious with me for saying no and blamed all of her troubles on me. I didn't care, the world was cruel, etc.
I felt terrible and carried around a lot of guilt. Someone saw her panhandling for change a few blocks from where we worked. It was very sad.
But here's what I tried to keep focus on. (I'm also a recovered alcoholic, so I can see both sides of the story.) She made the choice to drink. She lived life in such a way as to alienate most people in her life. She was not kind or respectful, she was sullen and demanding. Why would I want to let someone like that live with me?
There are many of my friends I would drop everything to help. Those are the people who are kind to me and who I trust. She was not one of them.
I felt guilty because I don't like seeing people suffer, but at the same time, their bad choices are not my responsibility.
He's your ex, right? Can you imagine showing up at your ex's house demanding anything? Doesn't he have family or friends who can help? If he's burned all his bridges, that's on him. Not you.
And you feel bad because you're a kind human being. I suspect in other situations, you would let a true friend stay with you if needed. This isn't one of those situations. Saying no is hard, but he is manipulating you and doesn't have your best interests at heart. He's using you. You've done nothing wrong.
I hope you can regain your peace.
But I repeat, his bad choices are not your responsibility.
Take care.
Thank you for your kind words. He was manipulating me and I would let any other friend stay you correct. He has burned all his bridges with family and friends but has been staying locally, not sure with whom. I'm guessing he doesn't like it so much where he's staying or he wouldn't have tried to stay with me. Your also right he's not my responsibility, never was, is going to make a big effort to move on in my head this week.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
Turning him away has left me emotionally hurt this week.
we tend to project how we would feel in a situation upon the other. you are assuming that he "feels" abandoned, turned away, discounted and discarded. those are YOUR feelings. not his.
yours was not the only door to which he presented himself. your home was not his only safe harbor. he is nothing short of resourceful. if he feels anything it's that he didn't get his way. and how dare you refuse him.
just as you physically shut the door, you must now mentally do so as well. what's that song??? now you're just somebody that i used to know.
we tend to project how we would feel in a situation upon the other. you are assuming that he "feels" abandoned, turned away, discounted and discarded. those are YOUR feelings. not his.
yours was not the only door to which he presented himself. your home was not his only safe harbor. he is nothing short of resourceful. if he feels anything it's that he didn't get his way. and how dare you refuse him.
just as you physically shut the door, you must now mentally do so as well. what's that song??? now you're just somebody that i used to know.
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