No sleep
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,431
I spent many years trying to love my mother into sobriety. To reason with her, to show her I knew she was lying and that the truth would set her free.
I thought I could save her, and we'd live happily ever after, but instead I almost lost my own life and certainly my direction and nothing got better--just worse as the cognitive damage accrued and the reality the addict lived in became further and further removed from "our" reality.
And the personality changes--they get darker and meaner, more controlling and clingy as time goes on. If your husband is in his 60s, that most likely will begin fairly soon if he has 30 plus years behind him and is sneaking hard booze.
I hope not. It is a slowly-heating hell, and all I learned at the end of it was I had no power to get my addict to do anything.
Second hard lesson was she had every right to drink. She was an adult and paid her bills. She saw no problem but me having a problem with it.
Very hard truth to face was all my suffering, in the end, was for nothing.
I just enabled her enough to keep drinking. If I had only stepped away years earlier when she could have taken control back and chosen to stop, she might have made the choice to quit.
But she had no real consequences--in other words, I rescued her and allowed her a sense of normalcy so she could lie to herself things were under control.
That may be what ignoring the elephant in the room allows: A sense of "normalcy" which is false.
Then the cognition issues etc. kicked in and I effectively was stuck.
Because I loved her, I couldn't abandon her when she really couldn't make good choices any longer.
Alcoholism is progressive, and it won't stay status quo.
That was the final lesson I learned and had to accept.
Very very hard situation.
I thought I could save her, and we'd live happily ever after, but instead I almost lost my own life and certainly my direction and nothing got better--just worse as the cognitive damage accrued and the reality the addict lived in became further and further removed from "our" reality.
And the personality changes--they get darker and meaner, more controlling and clingy as time goes on. If your husband is in his 60s, that most likely will begin fairly soon if he has 30 plus years behind him and is sneaking hard booze.
I hope not. It is a slowly-heating hell, and all I learned at the end of it was I had no power to get my addict to do anything.
Second hard lesson was she had every right to drink. She was an adult and paid her bills. She saw no problem but me having a problem with it.
Very hard truth to face was all my suffering, in the end, was for nothing.
I just enabled her enough to keep drinking. If I had only stepped away years earlier when she could have taken control back and chosen to stop, she might have made the choice to quit.
But she had no real consequences--in other words, I rescued her and allowed her a sense of normalcy so she could lie to herself things were under control.
That may be what ignoring the elephant in the room allows: A sense of "normalcy" which is false.
Then the cognition issues etc. kicked in and I effectively was stuck.
Because I loved her, I couldn't abandon her when she really couldn't make good choices any longer.
Alcoholism is progressive, and it won't stay status quo.
That was the final lesson I learned and had to accept.
Very very hard situation.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 543
Originally Posted by trailmix 
Awal, I noticed you mentioned the alcohol discussion in your other thread and why you don't have it:
You know, in thinking about this, I feel like we are going in circles here lol
He lies to you, you know he drinks. You want him to admit his lying which he has but you do want to stay with him to maintain your current lifestyle.
So I'm not sure what the issue is anymore?
For the record I'm not being snarky here, I'm actually really unsure.
You know, in thinking about this, I feel like we are going in circles here lol
He lies to you, you know he drinks. You want him to admit his lying which he has but you do want to stay with him to maintain your current lifestyle.
So I'm not sure what the issue is anymore?
For the record I'm not being snarky here, I'm actually really unsure.
And yes, l am going around in circles, im up, im down, im up, im down, l hate him, l love him, l pity him, lm angry with him, im sorry for him, because all this sh*t is alien to me. Then there's how l feel about me...explaining myself to people who cant understand why l dont just pack a bag and leave...lots of reasons but the main one being lm not ready to. Is that any clearer?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 543
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
I spent many years trying to love my mother into sobriety. To reason with her, to show her I knew she was lying and that the truth would set her free.
I thought I could save her, and we'd live happily ever after, but instead I almost lost my own life and certainly my direction and nothing got better--just worse as the cognitive damage accrued and the reality the addict lived in became further and further removed from "our" reality.
And the personality changes--they get darker and meaner, more controlling and clingy as time goes on. If your husband is in his 60s, that most likely will begin fairly soon if he has 30 plus years behind him and is sneaking hard booze.
I hope not. It is a slowly-heating hell, and all I learned at the end of it was I had no power to get my addict to do anything.
Second hard lesson was she had every right to drink. She was an adult and paid her bills. She saw no problem but me having a problem with it.
Very hard truth to face was all my suffering, in the end, was for nothing.
I just enabled her enough to keep drinking. If I had only stepped away years earlier when she could have taken control back and chosen to stop, she might have made the choice to quit.
But she had no real consequences--in other words, I rescued her and allowed her a sense of normalcy so she could lie to herself things were under control.
That may be what ignoring the elephant in the room allows: A sense of "normalcy" which is false.
Then the cognition issues etc. kicked in and I effectively was stuck.
Because I loved her, I couldn't abandon her when she really couldn't make good choices any longer.
Alcoholism is progressive, and it won't stay status quo.
That was the final lesson I learned and had to accept.
Very very hard situation.
I thought I could save her, and we'd live happily ever after, but instead I almost lost my own life and certainly my direction and nothing got better--just worse as the cognitive damage accrued and the reality the addict lived in became further and further removed from "our" reality.
And the personality changes--they get darker and meaner, more controlling and clingy as time goes on. If your husband is in his 60s, that most likely will begin fairly soon if he has 30 plus years behind him and is sneaking hard booze.
I hope not. It is a slowly-heating hell, and all I learned at the end of it was I had no power to get my addict to do anything.
Second hard lesson was she had every right to drink. She was an adult and paid her bills. She saw no problem but me having a problem with it.
Very hard truth to face was all my suffering, in the end, was for nothing.
I just enabled her enough to keep drinking. If I had only stepped away years earlier when she could have taken control back and chosen to stop, she might have made the choice to quit.
But she had no real consequences--in other words, I rescued her and allowed her a sense of normalcy so she could lie to herself things were under control.
That may be what ignoring the elephant in the room allows: A sense of "normalcy" which is false.
Then the cognition issues etc. kicked in and I effectively was stuck.
Because I loved her, I couldn't abandon her when she really couldn't make good choices any longer.
Alcoholism is progressive, and it won't stay status quo.
That was the final lesson I learned and had to accept.
Very very hard situation.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 674
dandylion, your words have helped me and my daughter this week. In responding to this post, and the other by awal, you have so succinctly summed up this awful disease.
My 27 year old son has a serious problem with alcohol. I hate to put a label on him, but it matters not what I call it, he is only getting worse in his behavior. We buried my father-in-law this week, and my son's behavior was just terrible. He is wound so tight, and so ready to attack anyone.
The only time he, as my daughter put it, "opened up like a sunflower" was when I asked him about his recent trip. When he can tell you how much money he makes, how hard he works, and how wonderful his life is...he is charming. But just let on that his behavior is not appropriate in any way, and he will turn on you...just like you said. No matter how much they love you, and I know he does, I am the enemy now. I have to pray for him, that's all I can do.
My 27 year old son has a serious problem with alcohol. I hate to put a label on him, but it matters not what I call it, he is only getting worse in his behavior. We buried my father-in-law this week, and my son's behavior was just terrible. He is wound so tight, and so ready to attack anyone.
The only time he, as my daughter put it, "opened up like a sunflower" was when I asked him about his recent trip. When he can tell you how much money he makes, how hard he works, and how wonderful his life is...he is charming. But just let on that his behavior is not appropriate in any way, and he will turn on you...just like you said. No matter how much they love you, and I know he does, I am the enemy now. I have to pray for him, that's all I can do.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 497
Originally Posted by Awal
Just for your clarity, the issue is our life isn't what it could be, and should be. We both went through a lot 17 years ago to be together and we moved mountains to make it happen. Im hurting because none of that seems to matter to him any more. It also doesn't matter to him that l feel unloved.
And yes, l am going around in circles, im up, im down, im up, im down, l hate him, l love him, l pity him, lm angry with him, im sorry for him, because all this sh*t is alien to me. Then there's how l feel about me...explaining myself to people who cant understand why l dont just pack a bag and leave...lots of reasons but the main one being lm not ready to. Is that any clearer?
And yes, l am going around in circles, im up, im down, im up, im down, l hate him, l love him, l pity him, lm angry with him, im sorry for him, because all this sh*t is alien to me. Then there's how l feel about me...explaining myself to people who cant understand why l dont just pack a bag and leave...lots of reasons but the main one being lm not ready to. Is that any clearer?
Also, I did the searching and confronting. Then I stopped confronting and took pictures, marked bottles, etc. I needed to see how bad it was. Then once I could let it sink in, I stopped doing that too. The confronting sopped because I decided it really was demeaning. We still live together though we are not a couple. It is a difficult life sometimes, and that goes for both of us. One day I just finally told him that I want him to stop or slow his drinking (and yes, I know that they can't slow down) for him and the sake of the kids and because I care about him. But I also said that he's an adult and it's his choice. there is a longer story, and eventually we will no longer be together. That doesn't directly relate to your situation though unless you would want to take that step and live separate lives for awhile in the same home and see how that goes
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,639
Originally Posted by Awal
Just for your clarity, the issue is our life isn't what it could be, and should be. We both went through a lot 17 years ago to be together and we moved mountains to make it happen. Im hurting because none of that seems to matter to him any more. It also doesn't matter to him that l feel unloved.
And yes, l am going around in circles, im up, im down, im up, im down, l hate him, l love him, l pity him, lm angry with him, im sorry for him, because all this sh*t is alien to me. Then there's how l feel about me...explaining myself to people who cant understand why l dont just pack a bag and leave...lots of reasons but the main one being lm not ready to. Is that any clearer?
And yes, l am going around in circles, im up, im down, im up, im down, l hate him, l love him, l pity him, lm angry with him, im sorry for him, because all this sh*t is alien to me. Then there's how l feel about me...explaining myself to people who cant understand why l dont just pack a bag and leave...lots of reasons but the main one being lm not ready to. Is that any clearer?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 543
Originally Posted by Clover71
I read your other most recent thread too about staying. I want to first address that you don't have to explain to anyone why you stay. Is it you that feels like you have to explain? If it's someone demeaning you for your choice, then I would not discuss the situation with that person anymore. It's really good to have a good support system i.e. Friends and family. But if you are speaking to someone who does not understand alcoholism, then after awhile you are bound to irritate them because they see an easy solution.
Also, I did the searching and confronting. Then I stopped confronting and took pictures, marked bottles, etc. I needed to see how bad it was. Then once I could let it sink in, I stopped doing that too. The confronting sopped because I decided it really was demeaning. We still live together though we are not a couple. It is a difficult life sometimes, and that goes for both of us. One day I just finally told him that I want him to stop or slow his drinking (and yes, I know that they can't slow down) for him and the sake of the kids and because I care about him. But I also said that he's an adult and it's his choice. there is a longer story, and eventually we will no longer be together. That doesn't directly relate to your situation though unless you would want to take that step and live separate lives for awhile in the same home and see how that goes
Also, I did the searching and confronting. Then I stopped confronting and took pictures, marked bottles, etc. I needed to see how bad it was. Then once I could let it sink in, I stopped doing that too. The confronting sopped because I decided it really was demeaning. We still live together though we are not a couple. It is a difficult life sometimes, and that goes for both of us. One day I just finally told him that I want him to stop or slow his drinking (and yes, I know that they can't slow down) for him and the sake of the kids and because I care about him. But I also said that he's an adult and it's his choice. there is a longer story, and eventually we will no longer be together. That doesn't directly relate to your situation though unless you would want to take that step and live separate lives for awhile in the same home and see how that goes
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Sharing a roof with parallel lives is an option...and, one that I think many people choose. I've seen lot of people do it....In fact, I think that there are millions of people who are living that option....even without addiction being an issue in the relationship!...…
All people are not the same, in this regard. Each person has their own reason for their choices.....and, it is each person's right to make those choices.
for some, it is enough that the other just take on oxygen and give off carbon dioxide....while others would rather live in a nest in a hollow tree....
To each, his own.....
All people are not the same, in this regard. Each person has their own reason for their choices.....and, it is each person's right to make those choices.
for some, it is enough that the other just take on oxygen and give off carbon dioxide....while others would rather live in a nest in a hollow tree....
To each, his own.....
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 497
Originally Posted by Awal
Hi, this has so many similarities to my situation. I'm trying hard not to search but l suppose like you, l wanted to find out just how bad the situation is. I guess because l don't see any outward signs i.e. he is never drunk...you are spot on when you say it "has to sink in" that is exactly what lm trying to do..l suppose because l guess a little part of my brain is in denial. Because l don't want it to be what l suspect it to you. I can tell you understand totally. My husband and l do appear to be heading towards sharing a roof but with parallel lives...not consciously..it is just evolving over time. X
I am saying this is the kindest way possible because I know the crazed feeling. The sneaking around and looking for booze and trying to not get caught is like an obsession - like his "obsession" with sneaking around and trying to hide his drinking. In my mind frantically having to find what you already know is there somewhere must be similar to how they feel when they "need" to drink. The kicker is, it's easier (not easy but easier) for us to stop looking than it is for them to quit drinking.
I understand giving up the dreams and what you thought life would be like. If you choose to stay, they may just look a little different. If you choose to leave then you will have to alter those dreams and visions a bit. Regardless, it's important to have your own life too.
I hope this didn't come across as bossy. I'm not trying to tell you what to do, and I know it sucks and is not easy. When I say "you" I mean in general and it's basically how I feel. I am not quite ready to implement the final step yet. It's a process IMO, at least for me.
I know most people will differ from this opinion, but I have seen instances where it doesn't always get worse. That mileage varies
Alanon might be good for you. There are plenty of people there who have stayed with their spouses who continue to drink. If you choose to do so, that could be a helpful avenue for you
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
to clarify anything I might have said, along these lines....when I say it gets worse....I am talking about the disease of alcoholism gets worse over time, if not arrested. Only talking about the predictable pattern of the disease....
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 497
Originally Posted by dandylion
to clarify anything I might have said, along these lines....when I say it gets worse....I am talking about the disease of alcoholism gets worse over time, if not arrested. Only talking about the predictable pattern of the disease....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 543
Originally Posted by Clover71
Oh. I know. I'm not trying to say it won't. I have seen it first hand with family where it actually stayed pretty consistent.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
just keep in mind that everybody here is trying to help you, not attack you, and that there is literally, years of experience with alcoholics being shared with you. also, and very respectfully, alcoholics are alcoholics-- they are all the same at the end of the day regardless of "levels." none are unique. our experiences are not unique. it's the same pain, the same frustration, same challenges. the same. the only thing that makes them unique is that ours are ours.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 543
So...can someone explain why last night he had one drink in front of me...a second after l went to bed (l popped downstairs and saw it) and a third after that (heard the glass ***** in the kitchen)..but then he stopped, and went to bed...why not just carry on?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 543
Originally Posted by Mango212
The other side of this coin:
Why track this, count drinks and pay attention to this?
Just trying to send out a gentle message that we do have a choice on how we spend our energy, thoughts and lives.
Why track this, count drinks and pay attention to this?
Just trying to send out a gentle message that we do have a choice on how we spend our energy, thoughts and lives.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
Originally Posted by Awal
I know...and thank you. ❤ l choose to find out what lm up against/or not so l can decide whether or not to waste any more of my life.
I don't know if you've had a chance to read the Quackers thread - it's a bit of light relief in some ways but has a serious function in that it shows (over and over) the surreal extents to which alcoholics will go to deny what is really obvious - that they're drinking/drunk/have booze hidden somewhere.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
