aliciagr

This is a progressive illness and I think its important to keep that in mind. I think the MRI pictures are probably from someone with advanced illness. My husband had the ability to work full time through most of his addiction. My therapist assured me that my husband was as I had always thought: smart and capable. But with his addiction, in this one area his ability to reason and see things clearly was diminished. His brain was basically lying to him about the dangers, and the cause/effect.

I still held my husband accountable for bad behavior that affected me, or caused damage to our marriage. I also still pointed out things like the risk he was taking with being caught by his employer and such. In that case it was almost surreal. Because he knew the risk, but it was like he felt nothing would ever really happen because he was too smart and managing it all so well. He had reasoning but it was flawed.

And in many ways I think he felt the same things about our relationship. He thought he could still do what he wanted and work it around me. I also reinforced this initially because I ignored and let go’ of some things that were not ok. But then I began to hold him accountable when I was affected.

I navigated it by setting boundaries, and in some cases changing my behavior: moving out of our bedroom at one point, removing myself from the home at another. And without blame or shame I emphasized that I liked/loved him, but his behaviors and actions had changed and I didn’t like these at all. The drugs and alcohol were responsible for those changes regardless if he wanted to admit it or not. Being aware of his personal goals and plans for the future I reinforced many times those things were not going to happen if he didn’t stop, and if he couldn’t stop or was confused, then he needed to get help and at least talk to a Dr. When he would complain about feeling sick, or problems at work I would listen, and simply ask him why those things happened? He knew, but he was resistant to admitting what the real sources of his troubles were. I also found there was much less conflict when I listened, and talked about constructive solutions with him, or shared things I learned in my own therapy sessions all while keeping it focused on how it was helpful for me.

I tried to maintain a positive relationship with him in areas where I could and let him know when I enjoyed the time we spent together when his behavior was good. I did that because I wanted to remain honest. I also made sure his addiction issue didn't become all I focused on because that was an issue he had, it was who he was as a person. If it had got to a point where there was nothing left between us except for the back and forth of the addiction, then I would have had to left for my own sake.

Science says people often make changes when affected by the negative consequences of their actions. Since this is a progressive illness.. people are all different places on the spectrum.. many people respond quickly to the negative and have what is called a ‘high bottom’, others may lose everything and say that’s what it took – desperation and a “low bottom” - and sadly many die never finding their own bottom so that gives me pause. I think the whole negative thing has to be looked at in terms of progression and other medical/mental/emotional issues. Doctors tend to recommend treatment as early as possible even if there is only partial desire. Docs can work on motivation and evaluate the best way to deal with a person’s illogical thinking due to the addiction. They say family can sometimes have positive influence in the treatment issue. That was one of the reasons I searched for a therapist for myself who specialized in this stuff.

I tried not to enable by blocking the natural consequences, but I also couldn’t create boundaries or take actions simply by thinking that next negative consequence would be the thing he needed. As if I could add to his pile and certainly make it happen. I had to do these things by finding my own balance, staying true to myself and knowing I could live with the consequences of my decisions and actions.
Going to therapy helped me find myself so I could be ok regardless of what happened with him. It helped me navigate a path that was right me and the situation I was in.

tomsteve

i met old mike through an AA meeting when he was a client at the local detox. years and years of daily vodka.hunched over,frail,jaundice, and needing a walker . he could only have a half a cup of coffee because he shook so bad-even medicated. i could barely understand what he would say,but did catch him say he was 53 years old. he looked at least 70. the detox was typically a 3-5 day stay, but he was there for 10.
i saw him a couple weeks later at a meeting in a neighboring town-still needing the walker. hunched over but not as bad. jaundice wasnt as bad. i could understand him a bit better,too. still looked 70
i saw him again about a year and a half later at a meeting. i didnt recognize him. it took me a bit to realize who he was.when he was sharing he mentioned being in detox and seeing me at meetings he was taken to.held up his coffee cup and said," full cups now!"
old mike didnt have a walker. no jaundice.not hunched over.he looked 50. i understood every word he said. i was in awe and also so dammed greatful and blessed to see the transformation. and HEAR it.
talking with him after, there were some things that werent going to fully heal, but they were improving tremendously.

Sailorgirl57

These posts have really helped me. Thanks to all who shared. I could not handle the stress of living with my ABF. It hurt too much. I tried for 3 years. I left him 3 months ago and now I have peace. My life is calm and peaceful. I still miss him and it still hurts like hell when I think about him, but I can feel the pain softening a bit. I’m not crying any more. Alanon and counseling and reading and self care and this forum have helped so much. I can see my growth by the fact that a big hunky alcoholic sailor I find attractive just tried to hit on me...I said no and walked away. Even though I was lonely and thought a cuddle with this big handsome dashing sailor would probably have been a fun night, I was able to recognize my pattern, practice self care, and do the right thing for myself. That is huge. HUGE 😊. Starting with my father, I have loved addicted abusers my whole life. This is the first time I have walked away. It feels good. Just for today, I will walk to work, have coffee with a girlfriend, and celebrate my small but hard-earned victory. I truly appreciate all of you so much!

Wamama48

That is not a small victory. Wow! You are on your way to being happy and healthy, way to go!

ArizonaGrown

Thank you Mike - it has taken years for my mother to get to where she is - believe me. I will just tell you of her very recent condition and I think you can get it from this. She called me 3 weeks ago and said she had fallen (again has many times - usually head injuries like stitches only) but it was not bad but wanted me to come over and help her. I live 35 minutes from her and my stepdad who was 10 minutes away was golfing and not answering his phone. So I start over to her house half way there I get a call from fiance saying she has called again and now is crying hysterical and says she is covered in blood. So when I arrive 10 min later she is covered in blood that has ran down from her head and is bleeding from her nose two large pools of blood on tile floor. I called 911 and firemen arrive and assess her and take her to hospital. She is there for about a week and half (quicker than her many detoxes before as they have finally figured out how to stop the meds before she is too totalled and yet avoid a seizure) at which point they discharge her to a post hospital home across street where she can get physical therapy and then will come up with a plan for where to put her. You said that she would be in long term facility if in this shape which is not true and it is next to impossible to find a place in the state of AZ that will take a person who is late stage alcoholism.

My step dad had gotten a temporary medical guardianship on her once before as to be able to put her in a "safe" environment for a short time where she cant get any alcohol. She has needed this more than one time but he stammers with it a lot- not wanting me to get it saying he is but doesnt etc. I would leave her longer than he does but not by much BUT would require her to get some much needed psychological counseling and aftercare program (along with AA not just AA) that would help her to rebuild herself and how to cope with that.


Okay so she goes to facility they get her and dope her up with seroquil (?) to the point where she cant move and or speak. We tell them to stop it and she will clear up - she does but it took a few days. Then she was able to walk (still not normally - not steady) and sit up and feed herself so the doctor there meets with her and my stepdad in am and they decide to let her go because she had been wanting to smoke a cig and was constantly creating a ruckus - and it only a temp place not permanent nursing home. So she came home and all that week I went to house and stayed with her to check her blood sugar and mainly to make sure she didnt drink so step dad could work. Went fine first few days - then she started bugging about wine. Step dad has her car keys and credit cards money etc so she cant walk to store. She was literally unsteady but crazy for wine begging me to get it. Well we made it through the week only to have her freak out on Friday and try to walk to store with money she had hidden and for me to pick her up both times and her falling and cutting leg on her second attempt.

Well what do you think has happened - my dad bought her wine that night saying she would not stop and was crazy he claims this is not a person who wants to stop so why try to fight it. Now he has left town 6 days later in which he has given her wine every day since last Friday and wont be back for 5 days. If she stops at this point she will have a seizure as she has many times before and I will have to call 911 only hope is that its in time to save her . So I have been angry with her and with him but mostly her for not at least trying harder once home. But from what is said here she cant really make the right choice - he can she cant. Blame is something I am trying to figure out where to place my anger at this ridiculous and sad predicament that she is in and I am too because of someones bad choice once again.

DesertEyes

You have a lot of different issues going on at the same time and it seems to me they are getting all tangled up.

That is the right thing to do. She needs a lot more help than you or your family can provide.

That is a different problem altogether. She clearly needs long term care, the fact that it is not availabe in AZ is not your fault.

Late stage alcoholism is just the pre-cursor to her problems. If she has other diagnosis then maybe you can get her care for those and not the alcoholism. i.e.: Liver failure, brain damage ( if she gets an MRI anywhere near that picture we have been discussing in this thread ), Thyroid failure, late stage diabetes.

Are any doctors looking at those other conditions? A lot of them will not make an effort once they hear the world "alcoholism".

That seems like a major impediment to me. Have you heard of an "intervention"? It's where you confront an alcoholic with their unacceptable behavior. Co-dependents sometimes need an intervention as well, and it sounds to me like your step dad needs one in regard to enabling your Mom.

Only a doctor can evaluate her to determine if she can make the right choice. Your step dad is clearly able to make the right choice, he has no excuse. Giving her wine, knowing she is at risk for seizures, is extremely dangerous. You can get a lawyer to use that and help you get the medical guardianship and not your step dad.

Start with the state of Arizona for not providing you with the right resources to take care of her. Then your step dad for not looking into his own co-dependence. Then use that anger to find doctors, lawyers or social workers that will actively help you find the medical care that she obviously needs.

Mike
Moderator, SR

FireSprite

I think this point gets missed FAR TOO OFTEN.

These studies don't track the progression, they just show us the worst-case-scenario, end result. There are a LOT of different factors that affect us as individuals from birth to the point of life represented in these scans.

aliciagr

Thank you for sharing here with all of us Arizona. Im sorry for what your family is going through and I think your frustration is understandable.

I wanted to turn my thoughts to you for a moment. It looks like you have been dealing with this unfortunate situation for a long while. My own experience falls short of what you have been through, but when I went to see my doctor for anxiety/depression related issues - she informed me that she felt it was really stemming from a form of PTSD that family members get sometimes when dealing with someone who has a chronic illness. I had never thought of PTSD so it was somewhat shocking to me. All of this to say, please make sure taking care of yourself physically and emotionally is a priority. There is an oxygen mask metaphor... put your oxygen on first and then you can do what you can to help others. Run out of oxygen and.....

Just a couple of other thoughts..

Are you familiar with Co-Occurring Treatment Centers?

I cant tell from your post what kind of facility your mom was in, so I thought I would mention it. The treatment center that my husband originally wanted to go to for his addiction issues was like this (also known as dual diagnosis). He had not been diagnosed with any form of mental illness, but had ongoing issues with depression unrelated to his drug/alcohol use. We found these types of centers to offer much more in terms of therapy.. a more multi-disciplinary approach which made us both more comfortable.

In part it sounds like your dad may have the impression she fully understands the relation to her drinking and other medical issues. He feels she is choosing to do this with a clear mind, and so he gives in to aid her? Frustrating for sure.

But this also made me think again of the co-occurring treatment. This isn't a medical site so I don't want to break any rules, but has your mom ever been prescribed pharmaceuticals in an attempt to help her regain some control over i.e. craving ? one example is naltrexone which my husbands addiction doc offered as an option after he stopped. He offered to prescribe it since he was also in therapy. He was told it works by affecting receptors in the brain. This is not medical advice in any way, just a topic that you might want to follow up with if your mom is ever under care of an addiction doctor.

This might also be helpful, possibly even for your dad:

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...s-disease.html (Choice vs disease)

ArizonaGrown

My stepdad is well aware of her condition and has for years been saying she has"wet brain" and or shows memory impairment and he always says confabulation. I find that she may be finally showing some serious symptoms with brain function not sure I would classify it "wet brain" and she loses large chunks of memories but can remember some things better than the rest of us. This is what I find when she is sober she tends to not remember things from when she was drunk and vice versa.

She has tried (and I hope I can say this here too without getting in trouble) some shots many years ago that worked for a little while. Then she also was on Baclofen but in very low doses and it was helping but her and my dad thought her face was getting puffy so she quit taking them and then wanted to start them again but he threw them out. Lately she has been on campral (?) and very recently before fall buspirone to help her better BUT my step dad didnt start her on them as he said he wasnt sure what they were for. I found them and asked why he wasnt giving them to her and he started them but they take a few weeks to kick in and he discontinued them when she started drinking again. The reason why he controls her meds is that she was having a hard time with taking them as prescribed so he fills up a large pill tray for her to take them from thus controlling what she takes cause now she doesnt even know what she is getting most the time. I will add that he also doesnt like her to take any pills - he is anti medication which always poses another added problem to this whole thing. She also takes antidepressant which at the time is Zoloft(?)

The thing that is making this hard is that she was sober for a 3 month period and then for 5 months this last year while living in a home that is for people with behavioral problems but was a lot like assisted living - she was the most physically healthy person there. They were able to keep her sober which my dad can not. The way that he first got her to this place was with the guardianship he finally got because the hospital had gotten insistent on not discharging her if she was to go home they said it was not safe for her. ( She had been hospitalized and detoxed about 10 times that year because of falls, seizures from detoxing at home and a minor heart attack) She of course just wanted to go home so they suggested one of us get the guardianship so he did.
She never really made it through any rehab type of program - tried but both times she was not clear enough after 4-5 days to start program and was sent home- she takes about 10-14 days to detox back then mostly from the attivan (?) and other drugs given to keep her from seizure and to keep her calm during the first few days. For some reason they take a while to get out of her system if taken for too long .
The home she has stayed at this last year although it is classified as behavioral doesnt have any type of counseling or addiction treatment other than keeping her there alcohol free and medically well.
I started taking her to AA meetings both times and yes they let me come with her to every meeting even though it was clear that I didnt have the need to be there and was just bringing her. She seemed to be getting it at first and then she started to just make it a social event for her rather than do any of the work -never found a sponsor even though she asked around and we attended for months. I know it is suppose to be kept anonymous but when we first started going I had a woman come up to me and thank me for bringing her telling me she was one of the nurses who had her at hospital many times and she was really glad to see her there. She has had my mom again as I have talked to her at hospital but we dont discuss the meetings at all - mostly she just encourages me not to give up on her yet. Very sweet gal really but I suspect that my moms story was some what known at the meetings as this gal had been going to this location for many years and nobody ever questioned me being there but not knowing the serenity prayer. As you can probably tell I have been very involved with my mom and her journey to try to beat this thing to where she is now- I for the first time have just been very frustrated with her and was on here looking for some info on what could be going on and always in search for a new idea.
Thank you for the support for all that replied - its much appreciated.