hopeful4

I have no doubt that addiction of drugs or alcohol damages your brain. For myself, I could not continue to be with someone who would choose to know that, and continue to do so with complete disregard for what was best for himself, our children, or our family.

I go back to the same thing over and over. When you have children, they become #1. Before yourself, or anyone else. You were responsible for bringing them into the world. My XAH is well aware of the destruction his drinking has brought on, yet still makes that choice. Choosing to take our children down his fun little road with him. He readily admits it's his CHOICE to drink. He can (and has) stopped before for long lengths of time.

I don't have to tolerate that, nor does anyone else.

DesertEyes

There is a reason for that Our "sister site" offers all of the "educational / information" stuff and we focus on the Forums. We can each specialize on what we do best. They do a fantastic job of it, I can't even imagine SR even thinking of duplicating what they do.

Check out:
https://www.webmd.com/

Mike
Moderator, SR

Sasha1972

I find the neurological information to be really helpful. It partially explains (but doesn't excuse) some of the behavior. For example, reading about Korsakoff syndrome and confabulation as a way to "fill in" memory gaps helped to explain how adamant ex was about things that had not actually happened. He wasn't deliberately making things up - he may have actually thought they happened. Korsakoff syndrome may also partially explain the short-term psychotic breaks he sometimes experiences, compounded with paranoia.

Ladybird579

My exah definitely has brain damage. He started drinking at a very young age and from all accounts his mother put whiskey in his bottles to make him sleep prior to him making the choice to drink himself. His ability to separate fact from fiction varies greatly and he will argue and consistently lie in the face of all evidence to the contrary about various things. He re-writes history. It's got to the point he cannot recover cos he can't remember how too. He has been in rehab long term several times but does not learn a single thing as he can't retain information. Alongside this is paranoia, impulsiveness and complete lack of ability to make good decisions. He acts like an out of control teenager.

I don't buy the idea I should forgive him cos he's brain damaged now cos he poured it down his own throat. Plenty get brain damaged through no fault of their own and have to live with the consequences.

hopeful4

Well said Ladybird.

aliciagr

Thank you Mike. I had no idea this site was part of a larger network of online resources. I do want to say I enjoy many of the articles that are on the main page of this site. Something I searched on a couple years ago brought me to that page and then it led me to the forums. I go back often to see what new content has been added.

TLC

Dandylion, thank you so much for your posting of the brain comparisons. It has been obvious to me of the brain dysfunction, but to see it explains so much. No wonder they have such diminished abilities in understanding and processing.

I have had my share of difficulty in fully letting go. Not wanting him back at all! But I trip up in having some interaction every few weeks as our paths cross. He looks normal, speaks English and buys groceries etc. So for a moment I try to respond as I would a "normal" person, then it goes south. My last interaction, he literally told me that he doesn't yell or do anything wrong and he's endured my abusive language and calling him names, he is afraid of me and my temper. Firstly I was shocked and hurt because everything he was saying is what he did and he has no memory of that. Then it became clear, how his brain was literally wired differently to see life as through a distorted mirrored "fun" house. (now I have the picture of some of his brain literally gone)... I realized just how far gone he was. I wished him well, which he thanked me and off I went.....

I decided to just keep that conversation clear in my mind and not lose site of it,especailly when he appears normal. Then you post a picture that is only what I can imagine, "his brain". It solidifies it all. Thank you for that. Thank you for all your wisdom and the posts/links you share. Yes, knowledge is power and is giving me strength one moment at a time. Thankfully that strength continues to build, even if I have hard days.
Thanks again!!!

dandylion

TLC....believe me, I know how h ard it is to wrap your mind around and to accept....
Though, I will suggest that it may be a mixture of brain dysfunction...along with...some good amounts of alcoholic denial and projection.....

TLC

It's definitely hard to grasp. I never knew someone could have such a difference in perception of reality. They make it about you, so you try harder to bridge that gap and there is the slippery slope that becomes crazy making.

He definitely is a very serious A with a dose of projection and denial, not a doubt. I also believe there is mental illness. How much is there a brain deterioration, who knows. I've always known there is an affect on the brain, but to see the possible physical affect in that image you posted is shocking. It's helps to confirm my experience of him,It helps create separation. I am grateful to you for your many wise words.
TLC

Bekindalways

I left my qualifier when he was 24 and I think he got sober around 30. He had been injecting meth. He was brilliant at math and building. After 3 years sober, he went back to work and at first couldn't do what he used to do cognitively however it did come back with time.

If I'd seen any hope for him and/or our relationship, I probably would have researched the medical/physiological side more. However, when I left, he showed no interest in getting help so it didn't make sense to look further into what was going on with him medically. It would have been like researching tsunami wave physics while standing in the path. Instead, I focused on getting myself out of that path.

Those of you that have more hope of sobriety in your Qualifier and survival of your relationship, I can see why the physiological would help explain what is possible and not possible. Our bodies and brains seem to be able to recover from a lot if given the chance.

MCESaint

The closest analogy I've come up with for addiction/addicts is schizophrenia.

In this sense: I've known people who suffer from schizophrenia and when they're on their medications, they're as close to normal as they can get. However, *some* of these schizophrenics who are being properly medicated convince themselves they are no longer sick . . . and stop taking their drugs. I know one who even committed a murder of someone close to him because he had "gone off his meds."

The movie a "A Beautiful Mind" - about economist John Nash - where he sees people who aren't really there comes to mind. I think that's as close to an understanding of an addict's addiction as I'll ever get -- that there is always some imaginary person whispering in their ear to "drink, drink, drink".

I think the movie also offers a valuable lesson. According to the movie, Nash ultimately learns to ignore these imaginary voices and people. They're still with him, but he ignores them as "not real" because, he deduced, they never aged.

While I appreciate Nash's story that, by sure force of his intellect and logic, he learned to ignore his visual and auditory delusions . . . the problem with the movie, I think, is that it is too easy to conclude that EVERY schizophrenic can learn to do the same thing Nash has done. That everyone can "think" their way out of schizophrenia just because HE did it.

Unfortunately, Nash is an exceptional person. Furthermore, everyone is different and - while there are commonalities and generalities that schizophrenic's share - each person's delusion is different as is the amount of the "hold" that the delusion has on him or her.

I think that applies to alcoholics and other addicts too. The grip that their "delusion" has on them varies from individual to individual as does their capacity to separate "reality" from "delusion." Most are NOT the alcoholic equivalent of John Nash. IMO, for most addicts recovery is going to involve more than just "sheer logic, intellect, and will power" -- in part because their brains have been physically altered. Therefore, I'm a big believer in a multidisciplinary approach to addiction recovery including (yes) legally prescribed medications (anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, anti-craving meds) combined with behavioral therapy and, yes, even support.

None of the above suggests that alcoholism (or any other addiction) *starts* as a physical problem in the brain or is inevitable. But, I do think the evidence is clear that some people are more prone to addiction than others and that because of the stigma society attaches to addiction, there is not enough HONEST talk about family history with addiction and, just as importantly, COMMUNICATION concerning the risk associated with such a family history.

We have just learned to talk about and realize the effect of a family history of, say, breast cancer and the effect on detection and lifestyle. We are still in the "dark ages" as far as addiction goes, IMO.

But, just like you cannot ensure that a schizophrenic is taking their meds faithfully, you can never be sure that an alcoholic won't go back to the bottle.

It is a life long disease.

MCESaint

Ladybird579

But, I do think the evidence is clear that some people are more prone to addiction than others and that because of the stigma society attaches to addiction, there is not enough HONEST talk about family history with addiction and, just as importantly, COMMUNICATION concerning the risk associated with such a family history.

From seeing this in my exah family I don't think they realise they have a problem. To them drinking copious amounts daily is normal. My ex SIL used to visit and the first thing she did was pull a bottle of wine out her purse and she got annoyed with me when I refused to start a "session" with her. Even now she has two brothers who have nearly died from alcohol abuse and a son and husband who have died ( son was only 35) she cannot see the problem. It's like they have a brick wall in their heads over what is normal. I've tried to talk to her but she honestly cannot see it. She thinks everyone drinks 6 bottles of spirits on a Sunday afternoon.

TLC

I appreciate reading the different experiences people have. Oh my gosh the similarity across the experiences.

Moments (diminishing in frequency), my mind begins to entertain thoughts of him, what he did/said and how he thinks etc. That alone begins to introduce his energy back into my world. This morning I had a brief thought of how sad it feels that he thinks of me as such a demon in his world. Just another B****, that gets in the way of his happiness. There is no sense to be made here, for me. Its like dancing with a crazy man trying to make sense of their rhythm. Even for a moment.

As soon as I visit this site and read the other stories, and probably more significant the perspective of those who have shared my road, I am quickly grounded again. The commonality of our experiences places the focus back on the disease and the reality of it all. And knowing he isn't for me. He doesn't define me. It's not my world any longer. It never really was. Yay! Peace returns to my soul.

I like that reference to a brick wall in the brain over what is normal. That is what is seems like. they have their own reality. And they need to, in order to maintain the addiction. Anything else, they'd have to see the destruction in it all etc. Just too much to endure, so stay with the numbness. They cling to this like the air to breathe.

I only put my toe in the pond for a moment this morning and thankfully quickly rallied back.

TLC

Wamama48

I am beginng to see how the pickled alcoholics brain may not see the damage they are causing. If that is true, I am the one to blame.

I haven't touched a drop of alcohol in decades because I was afraid I'd become an alcoholic. I never wanted my kids to grow up in an alcoholic home like I did, and my mom did.

But I stayed. He might not have seen the damage he was causing, but I did. And my kids grew up in an alcoholic home. Ironic, and not a good realization to come to. 😢

Ladybird579

If that is true, I am the one to blame.

No you are not to blame. He drank. He chose to, he chose to pickle his brain. You did not want that for him. He did.. None of us can stop our alcoholics drinking...not ever. They drink regardless of how much we beg, plead, argue, manipulate, love them and often walk away thinking they will stop but they don't. They do see the damage they are causing but the want to drink so they minimise, blame shift and lie to make the situation look better. My exah said to me "Was I that bad?" He was serious. I stood and laughed at him.
It is never too late to make changes for yourself xxx

Wamama48

I agree with you completely. I never thought I was to blame for his alcoholism. I'm just saying I am to blame for staying with him and letting my kids grow up in an alcoholic environment. I saw what was happening, but I stayed. Good news is, none of the 4 girls married a problem drinker or an alcoholic, and none of the girls have an alcohol problem. Maybe the cycle will be broken.

ArizonaGrown

So for the person who is dealing with a person who has alcoholism and therefor has a damaged brain - how do you blame them for their bad behavior if they simply do not have the ability to reason not to behave in the manner in which they are? Especially about choosing to drink or not to . How does one navigate with these factors ?

trailmix

Hi Arizona,

I don't know that any blame needs to be laid? Whether a person drinks or doesn't, gets help with recovery or doesn't is that person's choice. The only choice other people in their lives need to make is can you deal with being around an addict and all that entails, whether they are your Son, Daughter, SO or employer.

If not then you need to make a plan to move on, move out, find another job, whatever YOUR choice is.

If you compare it to any kind of mental illness, say someone is depressed. They might not want to get help, they might not think they need help but they HAVE to know help is available.

Whether they choose to seek that help, that's up to them.

Ladybird579

therefor has a damaged brain - how do you blame them for their bad behavior if they simply do not have the ability to reason not to behave in the manner in which they are?

It's not a blame thing but some people get brain damaged through no choice of their own and not everyone loves them after. I had a traumatic brain injury and lost friends over it and a husband who simple could not cope with what I became. I crawled back to a good semblance of normality but those people are gone for good. I don' t have those friends anymore. Only two stuck with me for the past 35 years. I have met long term recovered alcoholics who have partners, friends and a great life but if you re wound the clock they were a complete pita to people around them in their drinking days. Their brains have recovered but maybe they stopped in time.

DesertEyes

You don't. If a person has brain damage to the point they cannot reason then they will also not be able to "function", speak, perhaps not even walk. They would be stuck in a long term care facility for the rest of their lives. It looks a lot like end-stage alzheimers.

Brain damage of the sort discussed in this thread takes years to develop, sometimes even decades.

The same as with any other loved one that is dysfunctional. First you protect yourself and only then do you consult with a professional to see what you might still be able to do.

Mike
Moderator, SR