Seeking a bit of support for holding line on Father's Day
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Beach
Posts: 1,106
Originally Posted by Sasha1972 
Not only is humility notably lacking, I found out this week that he's made a formal complaint against the director of Kid's after-school care with the state agency that regulates childcare, because she banned him from the premises. Apparently he believes that she "discriminated" against him because of his medical condition (alcoholism) and that she was biased in taking my side (me being the mom) against him. Yes, maybe he showed up drunk and belligerent and scared the staff and kids, and maybe he'd been warned twice by the director since last fall about inappropriate communication and behavior, but HE WASN'T BEING RESPECTED DAMNIT! And that's VERY WRONG! Never mind that the suggestion to ban him came from the officers who responded to the 911 call ...
The complaint is nonsense, but the state agency has to follow up on every formal complaint, so it means lots of additional paperwork for the director explaining the situation and her actions.
The complaint is nonsense, but the state agency has to follow up on every formal complaint, so it means lots of additional paperwork for the director explaining the situation and her actions.
And if he is so worried about her healing from all the traumas she has endured... perhaps he shouldn't be calling her mother names or all the other emotional abuses he keeps heaping on her!
OMG! I have developed an unhealthy hatred for your ex...
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Oh, yeah--his complaints should be obtained. Because they relate to a minor's school, they might be tricky to get, but you should let your lawyer know so they can start working on obtaining a copy.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Good on you, Sasha, for holding the line on the visit schedule. It's hard, I know. I would recommend caution when trusting his friends, even if they have kids of their own, to kind of supervise his visits. In my experience, there's a reason they're friends, and just because they have kids doesn't mean that reason isn't related to, or include, sharing a few.
Before I filed for divorce and to ask for an interim custody and visitation schedule, I had trusted one of AXH's friends, who had kids, to be with AXH and DS for a couple hours a few times. AXH was crashing there at the time and this friend had 4 kids of his own, and a couple are around DS's age. One weekend, I dropped DS off there for an afternoon visit with AXH. I came back to find the kids running around unsupervised near the freeway, and all of the adults either higher or drunker than **** inside the townhouse. I don't mean still partying; I mean passed the heck out or sitting around glaze-eyed and unresponsive to reality.
As if that wasn't enough to get me to question AXH's commitment to DS's safety above his own using or drinking, he later said that DS shouldn't come over the following weekend, because Child Services would be doing a visit to check on the friend's family.
So many issues with that scene..... I wish I would have realized, VERY generally speaking, that healthy people tend to cut or limit ties with active addicts. If they're still close friends with AXH, when he's kind of going off the deep end, there's probably a reason.
Before I filed for divorce and to ask for an interim custody and visitation schedule, I had trusted one of AXH's friends, who had kids, to be with AXH and DS for a couple hours a few times. AXH was crashing there at the time and this friend had 4 kids of his own, and a couple are around DS's age. One weekend, I dropped DS off there for an afternoon visit with AXH. I came back to find the kids running around unsupervised near the freeway, and all of the adults either higher or drunker than **** inside the townhouse. I don't mean still partying; I mean passed the heck out or sitting around glaze-eyed and unresponsive to reality.
As if that wasn't enough to get me to question AXH's commitment to DS's safety above his own using or drinking, he later said that DS shouldn't come over the following weekend, because Child Services would be doing a visit to check on the friend's family.
So many issues with that scene..... I wish I would have realized, VERY generally speaking, that healthy people tend to cut or limit ties with active addicts. If they're still close friends with AXH, when he's kind of going off the deep end, there's probably a reason.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
The friends I was thinking of as potential supervisors are people that I know are stable individuals - friends of ex's from work (we work/worked at the same place, so we know a lot of the same people), who have been helping him over the last year (helping him move, letting him crash on their couches, etc). I've got no problems with these people, though I wouldn't want his new buddies from rehab(s) around Kid.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
Originally Posted by LexieCat
Oh, yeah--his complaints should be obtained. Because they relate to a minor's school, they might be tricky to get, but you should let your lawyer know so they can start working on obtaining a copy.
It might be a bit delicate getting a copy of ex's complaint, because I don't want to jeopardize my relationship with the director of the after-school program (who's been absolutely great with Kid over the past year). She might not want a complaint which names her specifically as incompetent, biased, etc to be circulating out there, even if it's clearly unfounded. But I'll ask my lawyer and see what he thinks. Maybe something else to add to the Giant Book of Wrong that I've compiled over the last 18 months or so, since ex started tanking.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by Sasha1972
It might be a bit delicate getting a copy of ex's complaint, because I don't want to jeopardize my relationship with the director of the after-school program (who's been absolutely great with Kid over the past year). She might not want a complaint which names her specifically as incompetent, biased, etc to be circulating out there, even if it's clearly unfounded. But I'll ask my lawyer and see what he thinks. Maybe something else to add to the Giant Book of Wrong that I've compiled over the last 18 months or so, since ex started tanking.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,118
As I was reading this thread I was thinking exactly what you decided to do: hold to the 2 hours. Come on--even though it's Father's Day, 2 hours is plenty of time to make a day special. Plus, his expectations that HE should be King of the Day with his daughter is just ego talking. He speaks of doing what's best for the child, but it's really what he wants.
If he gets to see his daughter at all on Father's Day, he's lucky, IMHO.
If he gets to see his daughter at all on Father's Day, he's lucky, IMHO.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,781
I hope things went as well as could be expected for you yesterday Sasha. 
I'm blown away he's willing to pursue filing a complaint over that incident. (but not surprised - talk about DENIAL)
I think that showing DD you were serious about holding the line on this issue is a Big Deal. Of course, she won't see it that way for a long, long time but our kids rarely really understand the things we do to protect them every day.
I also think not giving in on this looks better for your request to modify custody. It shows how seriously YOU take this issue even if he doesn't. Hang in there Sasha, you are managing this all really well!
I'm blown away he's willing to pursue filing a complaint over that incident. (but not surprised - talk about DENIAL)
I think that showing DD you were serious about holding the line on this issue is a Big Deal. Of course, she won't see it that way for a long, long time but our kids rarely really understand the things we do to protect them every day.
I also think not giving in on this looks better for your request to modify custody. It shows how seriously YOU take this issue even if he doesn't. Hang in there Sasha, you are managing this all really well!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
Hi everyone,
I have a dilemma and would appreciate input. As I mentioned somewhere in this thread, I have been reading Kid's phone, including texts to/from her father. I have not gotten either his or her permission for this. Over the last few days, she has gotten messages from him saying "things are going to change very very soon, maybe as soon as next week", and "I think I'm right and things are going to get better in the way that you want" and"I'm working things out with your mom and things will change" (nb he has not contacted me to work anything out). I find these somewhat ominous and am concerned about him taking off with Kid.
Considerations:
1. At present, he has two-hour visits (unsupervised) at his home with Kid. I do all the dropoff/pickups in person. So far he has always released Kid back to me at the agreed-on time and has appeared to be sober. His interactions with me have been courteous.
2. Both he and Kid have been pushing me to let him spend more time with her. I have pushed back and have held the line at two hours.
3. He has a tendency when drunk to make grandiose statements and promises so this could mean absolutely nothing ...
4. ... but on the other hand, there are signs that he's deteriorating (sending abusive texts to other people, cancelling things because he's "sick", stopping going to his 12-step group).
5. I have alerted my lawyer to these communications, and my lawyer is trying to work through his lawyer to find out what if anything might be going on. Both lawyers are competent and professional. His lawyer is aware that he has addiction and mental health issues.
6. Kid's school has banned ex from the premises so he can't pick her up there.
7. I do not want ex to know that I am reading Kid's texts.
So my dilemma is whether to stop letting Kid see him for two hour visits or insist that I supervise. On the one hand, these messages are making me nervous and I would like to keep an eye on her. On the other hand, the visits have gone without incident so far, and if I change something now, I may tip him off that I am aware of his communications which could precipitate action on his part.
What I am leaning towards is letting things continue as usual at least until I hear something from my lawyer or get more information some other way, rather than panicking and risking making the situation worse. However, I would welcome perspectives, insights, words of encouragement, questions ...
I have a dilemma and would appreciate input. As I mentioned somewhere in this thread, I have been reading Kid's phone, including texts to/from her father. I have not gotten either his or her permission for this. Over the last few days, she has gotten messages from him saying "things are going to change very very soon, maybe as soon as next week", and "I think I'm right and things are going to get better in the way that you want" and"I'm working things out with your mom and things will change" (nb he has not contacted me to work anything out). I find these somewhat ominous and am concerned about him taking off with Kid.
Considerations:
1. At present, he has two-hour visits (unsupervised) at his home with Kid. I do all the dropoff/pickups in person. So far he has always released Kid back to me at the agreed-on time and has appeared to be sober. His interactions with me have been courteous.
2. Both he and Kid have been pushing me to let him spend more time with her. I have pushed back and have held the line at two hours.
3. He has a tendency when drunk to make grandiose statements and promises so this could mean absolutely nothing ...
4. ... but on the other hand, there are signs that he's deteriorating (sending abusive texts to other people, cancelling things because he's "sick", stopping going to his 12-step group).
5. I have alerted my lawyer to these communications, and my lawyer is trying to work through his lawyer to find out what if anything might be going on. Both lawyers are competent and professional. His lawyer is aware that he has addiction and mental health issues.
6. Kid's school has banned ex from the premises so he can't pick her up there.
7. I do not want ex to know that I am reading Kid's texts.
So my dilemma is whether to stop letting Kid see him for two hour visits or insist that I supervise. On the one hand, these messages are making me nervous and I would like to keep an eye on her. On the other hand, the visits have gone without incident so far, and if I change something now, I may tip him off that I am aware of his communications which could precipitate action on his part.
What I am leaning towards is letting things continue as usual at least until I hear something from my lawyer or get more information some other way, rather than panicking and risking making the situation worse. However, I would welcome perspectives, insights, words of encouragement, questions ...
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 994
I wonder if he knows you will read the texts and is saying stuff to worry you on purpose? I'd be inclined to supervise even so. My other ex ( also alcoholic) took my older 5 when things appeared OK and I only found them cos my eldest son worked out where they were and managed to contact me.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 367
I've said it before to you, but YOU DO NOT NEED anyone's permission to monitor your minor child's phone, EVEN if there were no sketchy circumstances.
With your situation, I believe that you have an OBLIGATION to check her phone.
It is your right and responsibility to ensure that she and those that she communicates with are being appropriate.
My kids know that I can and will check their phone at any time for any reason.
With your situation, I believe that you have an OBLIGATION to check her phone.
It is your right and responsibility to ensure that she and those that she communicates with are being appropriate.
My kids know that I can and will check their phone at any time for any reason.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
I think part of wanting to spend more time with her father is because the connection is so insecure - she doesn't know when he could disappear, go back into the hospital, etc, so she wants to see him while she can.
She's also said "if I'm there, he won't drink". I've talked to her about his drinking being nobody's responsibility except his, and she knows about the three Cs from Alateen, but I think there's still a desire to help her father get better (or wishful thinking - wishing she could help him get better).
She's also been shielded from the worst of the crap he's pulled - I haven't shared a lot of details with her because it's grownup stuff. Her father is very plausible when he's contrite and promising to stop drinking and do better - I fell for that routine for years, even when I knew about the craziness. It's only been in the past six months that I have really given up hope that he is going to get better "this time for sure", so I think Kid is still somewhere in that process.
She's also said "if I'm there, he won't drink". I've talked to her about his drinking being nobody's responsibility except his, and she knows about the three Cs from Alateen, but I think there's still a desire to help her father get better (or wishful thinking - wishing she could help him get better).
She's also been shielded from the worst of the crap he's pulled - I haven't shared a lot of details with her because it's grownup stuff. Her father is very plausible when he's contrite and promising to stop drinking and do better - I fell for that routine for years, even when I knew about the craziness. It's only been in the past six months that I have really given up hope that he is going to get better "this time for sure", so I think Kid is still somewhere in that process.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
Originally Posted by TropicalWinter
I've said it before to you, but YOU DO NOT NEED anyone's permission to monitor your minor child's phone, EVEN if there were no sketchy circumstances.
With your situation, I believe that you have an OBLIGATION to check her phone.
It is your right and responsibility to ensure that she and those that she communicates with are being appropriate.
My kids know that I can and will check their phone at any time for any reason.
With your situation, I believe that you have an OBLIGATION to check her phone.
It is your right and responsibility to ensure that she and those that she communicates with are being appropriate.
My kids know that I can and will check their phone at any time for any reason.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
I whole-heartedly agree with TropicalWinter about monitoring minor children's phones. DS (12 yo) knows that the deal with keeping his phone (which was set up while he still had visits with his father) is that I get to know the passcodes and can access texts, call logs, e-mails, sites visited on the browser, etc. No ifs, ands or buts. Ditto for his online accounts (xBox, YouTube - several YT channels his friends watch have been banned). Getting to have his own phone is a privilege and not a right.
As far as visits with her dad... While we were still together, AXH threatened me with taking our son and disappearing if I ever left him, so I completely understand the gut-level fear that thought produces. Personally, I would ask my lawyer about putting a hold on visits before doing it. In the meantime, maybe making it VERY clear when you drop her off that you will be back in x hours to pick her up would help? (I'm sorry, I forget how old she is. If she's really young maybe just that you'll pick her up for 'dinner tonight' rather than a time?) That way her dad can't tell her that a trip was planned and OK'd by Mom without her questioning how true that is.
As far as visits with her dad... While we were still together, AXH threatened me with taking our son and disappearing if I ever left him, so I completely understand the gut-level fear that thought produces. Personally, I would ask my lawyer about putting a hold on visits before doing it. In the meantime, maybe making it VERY clear when you drop her off that you will be back in x hours to pick her up would help? (I'm sorry, I forget how old she is. If she's really young maybe just that you'll pick her up for 'dinner tonight' rather than a time?) That way her dad can't tell her that a trip was planned and OK'd by Mom without her questioning how true that is.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
Sorry - she's twelve. She knows quite a bit (age-appropriate) about addiction and in the past has called me when things were bad at her father's. However, she also got into a car with him when he was visibly drunk last month, which makes this situation more challenging in some ways.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
