Sasha1972

Hi,

Father's Day is this weekend, and I'm getting some pressure from ex and Kid to let Kid spend the whole day with her father, rather than the two hours visits she's been having for the last couple of weeks.
The backstory to this: ex has been in a downward spiral for the past year, most recent crisis was last month when he drove drunk to her after-school care and tried to take her out, staff and parents prevented him but the police had to be called because he was belligerent and wouldn't leave. On paper, we have shared parenting but for the past year she's lived with me as things with him have gotten worse (multiple rehabs/relapses, lying, psych wards, health crises, cops, splitting up with wife #2, etc).

Since the episode at her school last month, my line has been visits of no more than two hours, I do all the driving and the dropoffs/pickups. My rationale for that is that two hour controlled visits is the best way to handle the risk of his drinking while still enabling her to have a relationship with her father.

Her father now would like to have her for most of the day on Sunday. Kid would like that too. My response is that the risk of exposure to his drinking doesn't change because it's Father's Day, and so the safety measures don't change either - no "special exemptions". If he wants to do something special with her, I am happy to bring her to a restaurant or somewhere for dinner. But it's two hours. I don't want to be put in the position of being the gatekeeper who doles out visits according to how I feel - my position is that this situation is of his own making and I am responding to it, not creating rules just because I can.

Does this make any sense? It would be great to hear from someone who thinks I'm being reasonable (Kid wants to see her dad, ex thinks he's entitled to Kid, and even my partner thinks I'm being a bit too much of a hardass). If people think I'm being unreasonable, that would be important for me to hear too.

dandylion

Sasha...a question---are his parents close by (her paternal grandparents)?
If so, are they stable?

Westexy

I have a few thoughts and questions:
-What does it mean to have "shared parenting"? What does that mean legally when it comes to custody and visitation?
-Actions have consequences and sometimes those consequences occur on holidays, birthdays, etc. Showing up at your kid's school drunk, expecting to take her home is extremely serious and the consequences should be serious, not to punish, but to protect.
-That being said, if y'all haven't set any timelines or goals for how long the two hour visit process will go on, I think questions and requests for modifications shouldn't be unexpected. And honestly, though not necessarily correctly, I would be inclined to make an exception for a special day if no specifics have been decided upon. I would consider extending it (maybe not the whole day), but putting the responsibility of how to make you comfortable with it on him. Can he find someone that you trust to supervise? My thing with my AH is no overnights and no travel unless someone from his family (I trust them completely) is with him.
This is hard, right? You're not being extreme or crazy. He should consider himself fortunate that he still gets to see your child at all after what he did.

Sasha1972

His parents are both deceased (and they were both addicts when they weren't deceased, so they wouldn't have been much use anyway ...).

But finding someone to supervise is not a bad idea - I'm wondering if I could ask him whether he and Kid could hang out with other friends of his, who also have kids, on Father's Day, or whether that would just become really complicated and it's best to stick to "two hours".

hopeful4

I went through this at first with my XAH. He did a lot of activities w/another family member I trust and is stable, and I gave more time. However, the risk you run is that they expect it all the time then.

dandylion

Personally, I would not trust him with his friends.....
LOl...have you thought of paying an adult babysitter to be with them?......I would trust a babysitter before I would trust his friends.....
HIs friends have no real leverage and he would probably be more inclined to sneak drinks with them....
A babysitter would have allegiance to you and the child and could call you to come at any sign of a problem.....
LOl...I am just thinking outside of the box....

ladyscribbler

I made the mistake of trusting my ex's ability to keep our son's best interests in mind. Our son was diagnosed with PTSD (after an extremely rough year at school). Last year after his long summer visit to his dad's his symptoms began interfering with almost every aspect of his life.

I had taken a hands off approach to the visit and I regret that now, but I felt I had to follow the court order to the letter at that point.

Thankfully the court order also allows me to cancel or suspend visitation if I see the need. I did that this summer. After almost a year of not hearing anything from ex, he suddenly decided he was going to take DS for a summer visit. I told him no visit and why and gave him the # for DS's therapists.

You're protecting your daughter from much worse than a potential drunk driver right now. The emotional abuse and toxic relationship dynamics of addiction are extremely damaging to kids.

Stand strong. You are doing the right thing. Said as one line-holder to another.

LexieCat

I think the simplest, lowest-drama solution is to simply hold the line to the two-hour visit. Having someone supervise, or hiring a babysitter to keep an eye on things, just complicates matters and creates more work/stress for you, for the sake of accommodating the "special day" for a man who humiliated his daughter not that long ago, and shows no signs of heading in the other direction.

No big explanation required--we are sticking to the plan. As far as your daughter goes, this is one of those times parents are annoying and not letting us do what we want for our own good.

AnvilheadII

i think particularly in this case it is BEST for everyone to hold the line on the RULES of visitation. He wasn't exactly being father of the year last month, he has had ample opportunity to get his head out of his butt and start acting like a grown up. but he refuses to do so. i think it is imperative that your child's safety be first, foremost and always. remember your child isn't in charge here......she probably also wants a pony, to live at Disneyland and a Barbie sportscar......doesn't mean she GETS those things purely because she WANTS them.

Sasha1972

Thank you! I've received long, very sincere-sounding and carefully reasoned emails from ex about how Kid needs more time with him, she needs to recover from the trauma of the last year and heal ... conspicuously absent is any acknowledgment that the "trauma of the last year" was because HE WAS DRUNK AND ACTING BATSH!T CRAZY. It's all something that just "happened", there's no indication of ownership or contrition. (It boggles my mind how driving drunk and having the police called to your kid's school to deal with you, not to mention any of the previous stuff, turns into "an event", not "something I did").

I know that my weak spot is the earnest, reasonable tone and the invocation of "what's best for Kid", which is one reason why I post here, so that people can remind me that just because ex sounds sincere doesn't mean that things are going to be different this time, and that this is just part of his pattern.

I responded that I was holding the line at two hours/no driving because that represented a balance between Kid's interests in having time with her father and my responsibility to keep her safe. If there's evidence of a sustained period of sobriety, we can reconsider, but that's a matter of many months, not a few weeks since he got banned from her school. I am expecting another email soon about how I am judgmental and controlling and emotionally abusive to Kid by limiting visits. Plus I'm sure she will get texts about how "your a$$hole mom", as I am known, is trying to prevent her from seeing him. But my job here is to do what I think is right, not what he or anyone else wants.

Thanks everyone for helping me to maintain perspective. I was too lenient about this for too long, it took the police call at the school to really open my eyes.

LexieCat

Good job, mom! I'm sure your daughter has heard that name-calling isn't nice.

hopeful4

Good for you to hold the line even though you will get his verbal abuse for it. I know how hard that is. Be proud of protecting your child!

tomsteve

"....how Kid needs more time with him, she needs to recover from the trauma of the last year and heal ."

from what ive read in your posts and threads, dad doesnt read like someone that knows whats involved in the kids healing, but this sure was a pretty good way to try and get some pity and other stuff for HIM.
and now he knows what the kids NEED?
idk as im not that smart, but it seems that recovering from trauma doesnt involve time with the one who caused the trauma, but maybe im wrong?


on that spending time with friends that have kids- would he even have friends that dont drink?

Westexy

Sasha - Having read your second post above, I totally agree with your decision. His request isn't for her benefit, it's for his... And the tone of his communication...no humility whatsoever. I might honestly have a different opinion if the request were something along the lines of "I screwed up - big time. I'm going to make it up to you and Child by (fill in the blank). I completely understand why you've limited my visitation and you were right to do so." I take it back actually. If he had that much awareness, he wouldn't even be asking at this point, but maybe hoping to be able to spend more time with her next Father's Day.

Kiwidub

Exceptions, rewards, treats are all EARNED. This guy is clearly very manipulative. Hold the line.

Ariesagain

Someone here described his current co-opting of your daughter against you as "emotional incest," and that's a huge concern here. Would you put it past him to just take off with her?

Whatever your daughter wants to believe, he is extremely unhealthy for her to be around. She has shown an unwillingness or inability to protect herself when he is visibly drunk and claims she didn't know he was drunk when it was obvious to total strangers.

You have to protect her from him and from herself no matter what, yes?

Sasha1972

I'm working on it. I'm moving towards obtaining sole custody. My lawyer has sent an offer to change our divorce order on consent to ex's lawyer, if they haven't responded by next week we'll prepare to take it to a judge. I'm not going to stop until I have custody, but the process moves slower than I would like.

It's possible he could just take off with her - I can track her phone, and I have his vehicle details. Because at the moment we have joint custody, there's not a lot I could do unless I had good reason to think that she was in danger (just being a manipulative addict doesn't equate to posing immediate danger). However, I have the phone number of the lead cop who responded to the 911 call (and said "call me anytime"), so I'd use that. It does worry me that she got in the car with him when he showed up drunk. She claims she didn't notice he was drunk, but that's not plausible (she also got out of the car very quickly when a staff member opened the door and asked her to get out).

I almost wish he'd do something really obviously threatening, like throw rocks at my car, so I could get an emergency protection order and short-circuit the whole laborious process of changing custody.

Sasha1972

Not only is humility notably lacking, I found out this week that he's made a formal complaint against the director of Kid's after-school care with the state agency that regulates childcare, because she banned him from the premises. Apparently he believes that she "discriminated" against him because of his medical condition (alcoholism) and that she was biased in taking my side (me being the mom) against him. Yes, maybe he showed up drunk and belligerent and scared the staff and kids, and maybe he'd been warned twice by the director since last fall about inappropriate communication and behavior, but HE WASN'T BEING RESPECTED DAMNIT! And that's VERY WRONG! Never mind that the suggestion to ban him came from the officers who responded to the 911 call ...

The complaint is nonsense, but the state agency has to follow up on every formal complaint, so it means lots of additional paperwork for the director explaining the situation and her actions.

Ariesagain

Wow. So he's being discriminated against for not being allowed to put his child in danger. That's some World Class Victim Quacking.

Two hours may be too long...

LexieCat

I used to represent our state's Department of Corrections and Parole Board. Inmates with nothing better to do (not that there are a lot of options inside) used to file all kinds of BS lawsuits for ridiculous things. It sounds EXACTLY like the sort of claims I used to get paid for responding to all day.

Maybe that's where he needs to be--he might have a new calling as a jailhouse lawyer.