This is new to me
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This is new to me
I've been reading some of the topics, and sitting here with tears running down my face. It all sounds familiar, so it's good to know there are others out there that can identify with me.
My partner drinks nearly every night, and it becomes an obsession. He can't enjoy anything without it involving pot and/or alcohol.
When I was pregnant with my son, now 3 months, I used to wish I'd never wake up and now I feel like that again.
It's depressing to think I could spend the rest of my life like this.]
I love him and don't want to leave, but I'm sick of hoping things will get better. He likes it like this.
My partner drinks nearly every night, and it becomes an obsession. He can't enjoy anything without it involving pot and/or alcohol.
When I was pregnant with my son, now 3 months, I used to wish I'd never wake up and now I feel like that again.
It's depressing to think I could spend the rest of my life like this.]
I love him and don't want to leave, but I'm sick of hoping things will get better. He likes it like this.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: That's what I'd like to know.
Posts: 2,416
Hi Kiwi...
Try not to take it personally. Addiction is a real physical condition. He is now programmed to want alchohol the same way you or I want sleep or food. It will take a lot of will power on his part to kick this, and you can't do it for him. Is there an alanon group in your area? They can help you find healthier things to be preoccupied with than your husband's bad habits. You can't change him, only the way that you react to him.
Smoke
Try not to take it personally. Addiction is a real physical condition. He is now programmed to want alchohol the same way you or I want sleep or food. It will take a lot of will power on his part to kick this, and you can't do it for him. Is there an alanon group in your area? They can help you find healthier things to be preoccupied with than your husband's bad habits. You can't change him, only the way that you react to him.
Smoke
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Hi, Kiwi. I know it so so very hard. And must be that much harder with a newborn to take care of. I hear your pain. Do you have any friends or family nearby? Anyone at all to spend time with instead of sitting home waiting for "him"? --Try to find an Alanon meeting. I often took my daughter with me when she was an infant.
Hugs,
Lor in NY
Hugs,
Lor in NY
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Thanks for your replies, I did try an al-anon meeting last week, but found it a bit intimidating. They were lovely people, but it's quite hard to bear your soul in a forum like that. I'm working on not trying to take it to heart and focusing on my kids and the happy things in life.
I really like the philosophy of one day at a time. I get sick of looking forward to things only to have them ruined by my partner's behaviour or remarks. I used to try and turn his behaviour towards me so that others wouldn't get it, but now I realise I'm not responsible for his actions. It can be so humiliating though and now I just avoid going out where I'm put into those situations. We spend a lot of time going out alone!!!
I really like the philosophy of one day at a time. I get sick of looking forward to things only to have them ruined by my partner's behaviour or remarks. I used to try and turn his behaviour towards me so that others wouldn't get it, but now I realise I'm not responsible for his actions. It can be so humiliating though and now I just avoid going out where I'm put into those situations. We spend a lot of time going out alone!!!
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Kiwigirl,
You don't have to spend the rest of your
life like this. You have choices.
Be strong make an ultimatum and stick to it.
Do it soon before to much time goes by and
you get deeper in.
Try something with the his family and some friends. Maybe he'll listen to all of you.
Think of your child and having to deal with growing up with an alcholic. There is nothing worse for a child's self esteem.
You baby needs you to be strong. Seek supportive friends and family for help to make the right decision.
he won't change only you can change the situation for yourself and your child.
Better to be lonely than to be in the wrong
relationship.
You don't have to spend the rest of your
life like this. You have choices.
Be strong make an ultimatum and stick to it.
Do it soon before to much time goes by and
you get deeper in.
Try something with the his family and some friends. Maybe he'll listen to all of you.
Think of your child and having to deal with growing up with an alcholic. There is nothing worse for a child's self esteem.
You baby needs you to be strong. Seek supportive friends and family for help to make the right decision.
he won't change only you can change the situation for yourself and your child.
Better to be lonely than to be in the wrong
relationship.
Paused
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 12
Well, first, since this is about honesty and all, DO NOT make an ultimatum. This isn't about if he does this or doesn't do this, then I'll. Recovery is about making your own choices, not forcing someone else to make one for you. It is never easy living with any kind of addict, and it he won't change until he is damn good and ready too. The person that can change is you. It is very, very hard to go to al-anon meetings at first, all I did was cry for over a month when I started, but it is real and everyone there has similiar experiences. That is the beauty of it, it is people helping who really understand, they have been there too. Don't give up on those meetings yet, and know this~ your happiness DOES NOT depend on anyone, except the person who looks back at you in the mirror. Try to help yourself, you are really the only person you have control over. Get out there and try not to isolate yourself, life is lonely when walked through alone. Be patient and kind to yourself, and work on you, let him have his pot and booze, it is his misery, not yours. And rememeber, it is not your job to save him. Even if it were, you would fail. Take care and be well, work on remembering what it felt like to laugh as a child, it is still fun as an adult.
The wife
The wife
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: That's what I'd like to know.
Posts: 2,416
Well, this is an area that is about as clear as mud.
alanon thought: don't give ultimatums
alanon thought: set boundaries
I've been struggling with this dichotomy for a couple of weeks now.
On the one hand, we are told not to try to control the addict. One can't after all, control another grown person, short of physical restraint, which isn't practical or legal.
On the other hand, we are told to make decisions about what is appropriate behavior, and to stick to our commitments about consequences.
It makes me dizzy.
This is what I have decided for myself. One has to decide the things one wants their life to hold. What is acceptable? What cannot be tolerated? What is desired? What is one willing to compromise (if anything) to get what one desires?
Then, I think it is fair to tell the addict what one has decided.
For example... Dino went on a tear a couple of weekends ago. Not his worst, just the one that got to my "I've had it" button. He was in counseling, looking great, all cleaned up. Unfortunately, he doesn't believe drugs are his real problem. He's "depressed". And he has his counselor snowed, too. (That helps.) The last time he slipped, he said he was going to go to NA. I thought that could be the clincher to his recovery, now that the drugs were out of his system. Then he kept finding excuses not to go. He had no real support system, so when the urge came on him, he fell. No mystery.
He knows what he needs to do to recover. He has not done it.
He doesn't live here now. However, we have remained friendly, and I have tried to be supportive, as he seemed to be on the right track.
I can tolerate a slip if I feel the effort is sincere and total. If the effort isn't there, well, you can't even really call it a "slip" can you? It's just the status quo, which I will not tolerate.
This time I told him, that the next time I saw him, he'd better have his NA handbook in his hand, or no entre' vous. Clearly, an ultimatum. But he has choice. The NA effort, and I'm still in his life, or not... he uses drugs, and does without me.
Now, I could have kept this all to myself. It might have seemed less "controlling" to just see what he did and then turn him away if he wasn't making the commitment. But it didn't seem like fair play. "I have secret rules, see if you can guess."
This rule is for me. I certainly have a preference, but I am quite sincere about ending our association if things don't change.
So, for my money... ultimatums aren't all bad. The tricky part is , if you say to an addict "me or the drugs" you have to be prepared for them to choose drugs. And you have to be strong enough to not take it personally. You can't measure your worth by an addict's yardstick. It's warped.
Hey, thanks Gang. I've need to write this out for some time now.
Smoke
alanon thought: don't give ultimatums
alanon thought: set boundaries
I've been struggling with this dichotomy for a couple of weeks now.
On the one hand, we are told not to try to control the addict. One can't after all, control another grown person, short of physical restraint, which isn't practical or legal.
On the other hand, we are told to make decisions about what is appropriate behavior, and to stick to our commitments about consequences.
It makes me dizzy.
This is what I have decided for myself. One has to decide the things one wants their life to hold. What is acceptable? What cannot be tolerated? What is desired? What is one willing to compromise (if anything) to get what one desires?
Then, I think it is fair to tell the addict what one has decided.
For example... Dino went on a tear a couple of weekends ago. Not his worst, just the one that got to my "I've had it" button. He was in counseling, looking great, all cleaned up. Unfortunately, he doesn't believe drugs are his real problem. He's "depressed". And he has his counselor snowed, too. (That helps.) The last time he slipped, he said he was going to go to NA. I thought that could be the clincher to his recovery, now that the drugs were out of his system. Then he kept finding excuses not to go. He had no real support system, so when the urge came on him, he fell. No mystery.
He knows what he needs to do to recover. He has not done it.
He doesn't live here now. However, we have remained friendly, and I have tried to be supportive, as he seemed to be on the right track.
I can tolerate a slip if I feel the effort is sincere and total. If the effort isn't there, well, you can't even really call it a "slip" can you? It's just the status quo, which I will not tolerate.
This time I told him, that the next time I saw him, he'd better have his NA handbook in his hand, or no entre' vous. Clearly, an ultimatum. But he has choice. The NA effort, and I'm still in his life, or not... he uses drugs, and does without me.
Now, I could have kept this all to myself. It might have seemed less "controlling" to just see what he did and then turn him away if he wasn't making the commitment. But it didn't seem like fair play. "I have secret rules, see if you can guess."
This rule is for me. I certainly have a preference, but I am quite sincere about ending our association if things don't change.
So, for my money... ultimatums aren't all bad. The tricky part is , if you say to an addict "me or the drugs" you have to be prepared for them to choose drugs. And you have to be strong enough to not take it personally. You can't measure your worth by an addict's yardstick. It's warped.
Hey, thanks Gang. I've need to write this out for some time now.
Smoke
But Very, Very Bruisable...
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Palm Springs, Ca.
Posts: 548
You're forgetting something Dear Friend. When we are given an ultimatum, a choice as it were, the decision we make at any given moment can be as honest and pure as the driven snow.
"Me or the drugs!" she exclaimed firmly.
"You, of course..." he said.
But buried deep was the reservation. That self-doubting, faith-lacking, self-sabotaging, slippery-slopeing addictive whatever that was saying:
"Yeah, right. You? Ha! Gimmeee MY DRUGS!"
Good Intentions? We've got em by the dozens. Follow-through? What the hell does that mean? Should there be consequenses to our actions? Hell yes. Mommy doesn't live here anymore. If she did, I'd be living there!
However...YOU can't tell ME how I'M going to get better. YOU don't KNOW how or IF I'm going to get better. NA, CA, AA, psychiatry, the church, or just plain STOPPING. They all have about the same success rate. (sorry to break anyones bubbles) What's important is that it's our decision as to how and where we get better, and therefor we may just buy into it.
Not just boundaries, but balance.
boundaries and balance.
boundaries and balance.
boundaries and balance.....
------------------
Be well, and have a great 24...
"Me or the drugs!" she exclaimed firmly.
"You, of course..." he said.
But buried deep was the reservation. That self-doubting, faith-lacking, self-sabotaging, slippery-slopeing addictive whatever that was saying:
"Yeah, right. You? Ha! Gimmeee MY DRUGS!"
Good Intentions? We've got em by the dozens. Follow-through? What the hell does that mean? Should there be consequenses to our actions? Hell yes. Mommy doesn't live here anymore. If she did, I'd be living there!
However...YOU can't tell ME how I'M going to get better. YOU don't KNOW how or IF I'm going to get better. NA, CA, AA, psychiatry, the church, or just plain STOPPING. They all have about the same success rate. (sorry to break anyones bubbles) What's important is that it's our decision as to how and where we get better, and therefor we may just buy into it.
Not just boundaries, but balance.
boundaries and balance.
boundaries and balance.
boundaries and balance.....
------------------
Be well, and have a great 24...
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: That's what I'd like to know.
Posts: 2,416
Actually Jon, I didn't forget it.
I know Dino has "quit" hundreds of times, thinking he meant it. He was "quitting" before I ever even talked to him about it and was just so sure he WOULD surely! (I was still pretending not to know.)
I take your point. I cannot tell Dino how to get better. I can't know IF he will get better. I suppose that, since the only support that is really available for the peripheral people is 12 step, and I have immersed myself in that, it looks like the only way to me. But the fact is, that what he is doing is not working. He tried just stopping. He's tried counseling. He's tried Church. What he hasn't tried is community. I've known him for over 20 years. Though I've supported and cheered every effort, I've always thought the only thing that could ultimately work for him was COMMUNITY. And this is the thing he hasn't tried.
And I can't tell him when to get better. Nope. But it is time for ME to get better. Now. And though I admire all those anons who stay with an active addict and achieve their own recovery... I don't see it for me.
And so... I stand by what I said to Dino. This is my time. If it's his time, too... then we're on. If not... you know what Picasso said (or was it Van Gogh?) "When I haven't any blue I use red." And you know what Grandpa always said? "Fish or cut bait."
Love,
Stubborn (smoke)
I know Dino has "quit" hundreds of times, thinking he meant it. He was "quitting" before I ever even talked to him about it and was just so sure he WOULD surely! (I was still pretending not to know.)
I take your point. I cannot tell Dino how to get better. I can't know IF he will get better. I suppose that, since the only support that is really available for the peripheral people is 12 step, and I have immersed myself in that, it looks like the only way to me. But the fact is, that what he is doing is not working. He tried just stopping. He's tried counseling. He's tried Church. What he hasn't tried is community. I've known him for over 20 years. Though I've supported and cheered every effort, I've always thought the only thing that could ultimately work for him was COMMUNITY. And this is the thing he hasn't tried.
And I can't tell him when to get better. Nope. But it is time for ME to get better. Now. And though I admire all those anons who stay with an active addict and achieve their own recovery... I don't see it for me.
And so... I stand by what I said to Dino. This is my time. If it's his time, too... then we're on. If not... you know what Picasso said (or was it Van Gogh?) "When I haven't any blue I use red." And you know what Grandpa always said? "Fish or cut bait."
Love,
Stubborn (smoke)
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 12
well it seems we have reached a point where we want to argu for or against ultimatiums. Instead of pointing an ultimatium to someone else, how about giving yourself one. I just know that both myself and my A when forced to choose something will make damn good and sure to choose the opposite of what would be considered best. Well that was a confusing statement, what I mean is that if he told me I had to do something or else, I would not even consider doing it, I would choose the else every single time, even if I really wanted to do what he had asked. The bottom line is that ultimatiums have to do with control. It is a manipulation of someone else to get them to do exactly what WE think is best. Hell if you want him out, kick him out, if he gets better and you want to work on a relationship then well then so be it. But don't force a decision from an A, like Jon said, they will say anything, but the proof is in the pudding, they will still go ahead and do whatever they damn well please anyway. Ok, ,so I have rambled on and on, hope it may be helpful.
wife
wife
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This is the first time for me to post...but my story is a doosie! I have been married to my addict husband for 24 years. We have one son who just went off to college in Aug. He FINALLY cleaned up 90 days ago, has a great counselor, 2 sponsors, never misses a meeting, and is doing great so they think. The worst thing about all of this is that all along I thought he was mean BECAUSE of the drugs and alcohol but now I know he is just plain MEAN SPIRITED. He is absolutely the meanest, most selfish person I hope to God to ever meet. Not physically, but emotionally. I have so much anger and resentment that I think I'm going to explode! I know all about boundaries, but how do you keep words out? I'm going back to school in January and my plan is to get away from him. It's just so damn sad to think that I wasted 24 years HOPING and PRAYING that he would come to reality. So my point is that clean and sober doesn't always make them nicer. Thanks for listening.
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: nyc
Posts: 36
Greetings:
I had a ong talk with someone on this issue & she is a oldtimer.
In her opinion the non addicted person stands a huge chance of a lot of anger when & if the A does change & get sober. You are forced to see them walk out the door move on with their lives & leave you anything is possibe if one is working the program & the other isn't.You are losing control over your A & were able to control & manipulate them, but u can't if they are getting better. That is what happened to her & her A, she was forced to take a hard look at how she was addicted to the ADDICT! she had nobody to rescue; no excuses no drama no real reason to NOT focus on why she was with him in the first place.
I have only been in program 9 or 10 mos now. So, I have much to learn but I must say that
jons slant is in accordance with my view, somewhat I did set boundaries & ultimatiums; but FOR ME ALONE! I would never expect an A to adhere to RULES when drugs,& or booze were really RULING them hence; why we are here to begin with. I know what I can take & how much I was willing to deal with! I didn't give an inch more.
I can't be bothered with the back & forth & insanity of it all. Thats not for me. The program has so many ppl with some many different ways of approaching it. there are alot of things that I dont care for about the program.
I took what I liked & left the rest`
I had a ong talk with someone on this issue & she is a oldtimer.
In her opinion the non addicted person stands a huge chance of a lot of anger when & if the A does change & get sober. You are forced to see them walk out the door move on with their lives & leave you anything is possibe if one is working the program & the other isn't.You are losing control over your A & were able to control & manipulate them, but u can't if they are getting better. That is what happened to her & her A, she was forced to take a hard look at how she was addicted to the ADDICT! she had nobody to rescue; no excuses no drama no real reason to NOT focus on why she was with him in the first place.
I have only been in program 9 or 10 mos now. So, I have much to learn but I must say that
jons slant is in accordance with my view, somewhat I did set boundaries & ultimatiums; but FOR ME ALONE! I would never expect an A to adhere to RULES when drugs,& or booze were really RULING them hence; why we are here to begin with. I know what I can take & how much I was willing to deal with! I didn't give an inch more.
I can't be bothered with the back & forth & insanity of it all. Thats not for me. The program has so many ppl with some many different ways of approaching it. there are alot of things that I dont care for about the program.
I took what I liked & left the rest`
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Wow! I never expected such a response to my first post!
I do find it hard to know whether I don't like my partner's behaviour because he's stoned or if it's just him I don't like! I really do love him (obviously or else I wouldn't be here) and it's not because I'm afraid to be on my own that I don't leave. I've always been pretty independant, financially and otherwise, and I guess I don't leave because I keep hoping things will get better. It's all very confusing when they play on your emotions.
It's been interesting reading all your posts and getting different peoples perspective on things, Thank you all.
Kiwi
I do find it hard to know whether I don't like my partner's behaviour because he's stoned or if it's just him I don't like! I really do love him (obviously or else I wouldn't be here) and it's not because I'm afraid to be on my own that I don't leave. I've always been pretty independant, financially and otherwise, and I guess I don't leave because I keep hoping things will get better. It's all very confusing when they play on your emotions.
It's been interesting reading all your posts and getting different peoples perspective on things, Thank you all.
Kiwi
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