Isn't being a codependent just being a good person?
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Originally Posted by Bekindalways 
Yep Hope, you sound like one of us. Welcome to the club and so sorry you seem to have all the qualifications to belong.
As another Christian, it took me years to realize that Christ practiced constructive selfishness. There was the time he had had it with the crowds and took off with his buddies across the Sea of Galilee. Furthermore he snuck off to pray leaving everyone looking for him. Finally he didn't mince words with folks when they were mucking up. Nor did he get in there way to stop them when they were headed for big mistakes and huge consequences. Think the betrayal by Judas and the denial by Peter.
As another Christian, it took me years to realize that Christ practiced constructive selfishness. There was the time he had had it with the crowds and took off with his buddies across the Sea of Galilee. Furthermore he snuck off to pray leaving everyone looking for him. Finally he didn't mince words with folks when they were mucking up. Nor did he get in there way to stop them when they were headed for big mistakes and huge consequences. Think the betrayal by Judas and the denial by Peter.
I came across this quote after posting my original post here -- "Of all the powers, love forgives the most but condones the least." - Timothy Keller.
I have to remind myself that not condoning his behavior does not mean I don't love him. It does not mean that I don't forgive him. It just means I am not okay with it, and am not going to accept it as okay. God convicts us when we are doing wrong, and this does not mean He no longer loves us. It means He loves us enough to not let us go on that way...
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Originally Posted by hopeful4
It's a fine line, and one we are always jumping back and forth on.
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Wow. That helps. I was convinced that "to love as Christ loves" is equivalent to not let another person hurt. But, those are two different things. I guess it is similar to how God will not/can not force us to choose Him. Just like we cannot try to force fix our addicts/alcoholics. That is where detaching with love must come from...
This is perfect! Thank you both! ( I have a problem with the "with love" part - I've seem to have lost the love for the AW)
COD
This is perfect! Thank you both! ( I have a problem with the "with love" part - I've seem to have lost the love for the AW)
COD
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Originally Posted by CentralOhioDad
This is perfect! Thank you both! (I have a problem with the "with love" part - I've seem to have lost the love for the AW)
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There should be more words for love. There is the feel good love (love of Italian food, love to snuggle with an infant, love to have sex with that hottie) which is all good healthy, happy human feelings.
Then there is the life/world/universe changing love that I believe Christ talked about and mystics have experienced. This kind of love doesn't necessarily feel good: it is giving a time out to the toddler that just bit someone; it's getting yourself to exercise; it's keeping your hands to yourself around the hottie. And for us on these forums: it is going through addiction withdrawal, not picking up the phone when the drunk beloved calls; going to meetings; looking long and hard at our own arrogance, ego, and failures. Not fun.
The one time I think I truly loved someone was when I left my qualifier. It saved my own life and possibly headed him in the direction of eventually recovery. I don't know this for sure but as close as possible. I had to love this man completely and he was an addict. In order to accept, honor and love this part of him, I had to leave and let God take over.
Then there is the life/world/universe changing love that I believe Christ talked about and mystics have experienced. This kind of love doesn't necessarily feel good: it is giving a time out to the toddler that just bit someone; it's getting yourself to exercise; it's keeping your hands to yourself around the hottie. And for us on these forums: it is going through addiction withdrawal, not picking up the phone when the drunk beloved calls; going to meetings; looking long and hard at our own arrogance, ego, and failures. Not fun.
The one time I think I truly loved someone was when I left my qualifier. It saved my own life and possibly headed him in the direction of eventually recovery. I don't know this for sure but as close as possible. I had to love this man completely and he was an addict. In order to accept, honor and love this part of him, I had to leave and let God take over.
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Originally Posted by Bekindalways
There should be more words for love. There is the feel good love (love of Italian food, love to snuggle with an infant, love to have sex with that hottie) which is all good healthy, happy human feelings.
Then there is the life/world/universe changing love that I believe Christ talked about and mystics have experienced. This kind of love doesn't necessarily feel good: it is giving a time out to the toddler that just bit someone; it's getting yourself to exercise; it's keeping your hands to yourself around the hottie. And for us on these forums: it is going through addiction withdrawal, not picking up the phone when the drunk beloved calls; going to meetings; looking long and hard at our own arrogance, ego, and failures. Not fun.
The one time I think I truly loved someone was when I left my qualifier. It saved my own life and possibly headed him in the direction of eventually recovery. I don't know this for sure but as close as possible. I had to love this man completely and he was an addict. In order to accept, honor and love this part of him, I had to leave and let God take over.
Then there is the life/world/universe changing love that I believe Christ talked about and mystics have experienced. This kind of love doesn't necessarily feel good: it is giving a time out to the toddler that just bit someone; it's getting yourself to exercise; it's keeping your hands to yourself around the hottie. And for us on these forums: it is going through addiction withdrawal, not picking up the phone when the drunk beloved calls; going to meetings; looking long and hard at our own arrogance, ego, and failures. Not fun.
The one time I think I truly loved someone was when I left my qualifier. It saved my own life and possibly headed him in the direction of eventually recovery. I don't know this for sure but as close as possible. I had to love this man completely and he was an addict. In order to accept, honor and love this part of him, I had to leave and let God take over.
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Originally Posted by Bekindalways
There should be more words for love. our own arrogance, ego, and failures.
96 Words for Love
(* we can consider these examples in the framework of healthy love v codependency and addictive and such relationships* - this is of course,a "secular" piece on love)
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Originally Posted by hope778
Wow. That helps. I was convinced that "to love as Christ loves" is equivalent to not let another person hurt. But, those are two different things .
God helps those who help themselves,too.
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Originally Posted by tomsteve
Christ didn't carry people. he gave a message then let the people he loves decide.
God helps those who help themselves,too.
God helps those who help themselves,too.
As a codependent I guess accepting and believing that AH can and is able to help himself is something I need to work on. I fall into the trap of seeing him as helpless when he gets down.
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I think stepping back and allowing an adult to make their own life
decisions, including living the consequences of those decisions, is true respect.
To rescue an adult repeatedly from a self-created crisis cripples them
and sends a message that you think them incapable and you more so.
I wish I had known this when I kept rescuing my alcoholic mother.
Later, when I became alcoholic it was only when my husband stopped
enabling me by fixing, rescuing, and repairing consequences I created
did I make the choice to stop and deal with my addiction myself.
By the way--I really resented him for it at one level although I accepted
his bailout because they let me keep drinking.
It's hard, but letting him fall demonstrates both respect and mercy when you
do it with love and compassion--the same love and compassion you owe yourself.
decisions, including living the consequences of those decisions, is true respect.
To rescue an adult repeatedly from a self-created crisis cripples them
and sends a message that you think them incapable and you more so.
I wish I had known this when I kept rescuing my alcoholic mother.
Later, when I became alcoholic it was only when my husband stopped
enabling me by fixing, rescuing, and repairing consequences I created
did I make the choice to stop and deal with my addiction myself.
By the way--I really resented him for it at one level although I accepted
his bailout because they let me keep drinking.
It's hard, but letting him fall demonstrates both respect and mercy when you
do it with love and compassion--the same love and compassion you owe yourself.
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Originally Posted by hope778
Our equivalent to detaching with love I suppose.... It is very hard for us, as it is for Him.
As a codependent I guess accepting and believing that AH can and is able to help himself is something I need to work on. I fall into the trap of seeing him as helpless when he gets down.
As a codependent I guess accepting and believing that AH can and is able to help himself is something I need to work on. I fall into the trap of seeing him as helpless when he gets down.
I've slowly come to see many of my "helping" characteristics as a kind of arrogance as well as being controlling. I continue to work on humility; I don't necessarily know what is best for others. What is best for them is up to them and God. God and I have a lot of conversations in which I am NOT happy with how things are going but that is my problem to work on.
Hawkeye, I love your perspective specially as you have seen several sides of this type of situation.
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Codependents are good people. Addicts are good people. The definition of who's a "good person"is ambiguous and everyone has a different definition. A codependent thinks they are "helping" the addict when in fact they are doing the opposite. Just as an addict thinks they are only harming themselves. Both can not see their flaws in the cycle they play in the dysfunction.
You were brought up by a mother that did everything and and we are really a product of how we were raised. Your mom tried her best with the tools she knew how. Just as you are trying your best with the tools you know how. BUT knowledge is power. The more you know about codependency and addiction, the better equipped you would be in changing your schema of "what a good wife should do".
You were brought up by a mother that did everything and and we are really a product of how we were raised. Your mom tried her best with the tools she knew how. Just as you are trying your best with the tools you know how. BUT knowledge is power. The more you know about codependency and addiction, the better equipped you would be in changing your schema of "what a good wife should do".
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This sounds exactly like me. I'm new to the codependent label also and I think I have been an enabler as well. All I wanted was to help my bf get help and get better but his choices keep hurting our relationship and disappointing me. I am constantly being 'shocked' by something he does when my mind is saying 'wake up! Why are you surprised by this?' I've always been the fix-it person but I can't fix this, and what's left of my sane mind is telling me to leave. Every time he falls down the hole,I go with him. I just need that strength within myself to cut the cord that attaches us. Wish I had the answer for you, but I totally understand what you're saying. Peace and strength to you.
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Originally Posted by alcoholics wife
Codependents are good people. Addicts are good people. The definition of who's a "good person"is ambiguous and everyone has a different definition. A codependent thinks they are "helping" the addict when in fact they are doing the opposite. Just as an addict thinks they are only harming themselves. Both can not see their flaws in the cycle they play in the dysfunction.
You were brought up by a mother that did everything and and we are really a product of how we were raised. Your mom tried her best with the tools she knew how. Just as you are trying your best with the tools you know how. BUT knowledge is power. The more you know about codependency and addiction, the better equipped you would be in changing your schema of "what a good wife should do".
You were brought up by a mother that did everything and and we are really a product of how we were raised. Your mom tried her best with the tools she knew how. Just as you are trying your best with the tools you know how. BUT knowledge is power. The more you know about codependency and addiction, the better equipped you would be in changing your schema of "what a good wife should do".
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Originally Posted by Elyse16
This sounds exactly like me. I'm new to the codependent label also and I think I have been an enabler as well. All I wanted was to help my bf get help and get better but his choices keep hurting our relationship and disappointing me. I am constantly being 'shocked' by something he does when my mind is saying 'wake up! Why are you surprised by this?' I've always been the fix-it person but I can't fix this, and what's left of my sane mind is telling me to leave. Every time he falls down the hole,I go with him. I just need that strength within myself to cut the cord that attaches us. Wish I had the answer for you, but I totally understand what you're saying. Peace and strength to you.
Good news is we're not alone.
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