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A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Yeah, my second husband refused to apply for what he considered "doofus" jobs. Honest work, you do what you gotta do. I've worked plenty of jobs that were well below my abilities, for the sake of making money when I needed it.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 89
Entitlement -- I think the alcoholism feeds on the sense of entitlement, but not necessarily a cause/effect situation. To a certain extent, the entitlement has always been there with my AH, even before the alcoholism. I think the entitlement is due to a lack of maturity.
I've wondered if this has more to do with alcoholism, or just personality.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
Originally Posted by MrsD 
I know darn well you're right. I think the time is coming, I guess unfortunately something inexcusable is going to have to happen to get me to commit to a decision & not keep second guessing & giving him more chances. That's certainly not the ideal way to be, but it's realistic, until I'm a lot stronger of a person.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by atalose
what would be inexcusable to you?
We aren't talking punishment, here--this isn't about ex post facto laws that criminalize conduct after the fact (sorry for the legalese--I slip into it now and then). It's about saying that we deserve better--setting healthy boundaries to protect ourselves and our kids and enforcing those boundaries appropriately. You can do that at any time.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Hi MrsD. just saying Hi and sending best wishes. You're coping with a lot.
I agree with really disliking the 'I deserve' mindset as I've come across it others. It sort of implies that there's some power that owes you a good life.
Boy, if we got our just deserts there would be many struggling single parents now living in luxury.
I agree with really disliking the 'I deserve' mindset as I've come across it others. It sort of implies that there's some power that owes you a good life.
Boy, if we got our just deserts there would be many struggling single parents now living in luxury.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,118
Originally Posted by MrsD
Entitlement... The world owes him... He deserves.. He shouldn't have to... Blah blah blah.
That's why he won't get just any job, they're all "beneath" him with his 2 bachelor's degrees.
I've wondered if this has more to do with alcoholism, or just personality. He grew up very rich and his parents have always bailed him out of problems, they still do. They just can't bail him out of this one.
That's why he won't get just any job, they're all "beneath" him with his 2 bachelor's degrees.
I've wondered if this has more to do with alcoholism, or just personality. He grew up very rich and his parents have always bailed him out of problems, they still do. They just can't bail him out of this one.
My AH somehow didn't inherit her approach to making a living. He's also of the "I'm too good for that" mindset. He doesn't want to work at Costco because it's beneath him and he's afraid the neighbors will see him there. But he doesn't mind that the neighbors have seen him roll down the driveway drunk (that literally happened), or walking around the supermarket in urine soaked pants. Somehow that's more honorable than doing what it takes to row his side of the boat.
So, I don't think it's either privilege or alcoholism that makes them like that. Some people are just into building up their ego, living inside it, and protecting it at all costs.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
If you continue to give him a soft landing, his sense of entitlement will grow along with his excuses and finger pointing, blaming the world, the economy, the phase of the moon....he will continue to invent excuses plausible reasons...all at your expense.
How about you? You deserve peace of mind, some spendable $$, and a real partner, now you sound like the parent of a large spoiled child.
If you have not been married long it is easier to extract yourself, it is going to get worse.
I know someone else who continues to make excuse after excuse why their real adult child can't function, but they can't see to let go, they have fear that is paramount...but they keep getting dragged further and further..
In comparison it is easier to let a bad marriage go and find a better life...you and everyone deserve much more than crumbs.
I hope you are good today.
Sidenote: my brother is a retired gm of a large construction company...He works at Costco 25 hours a week pumping gas and gets many benefits, exercise of walking daily, free executive membership, American Express card, 3% discount on gas. He enjoys it.
How about you? You deserve peace of mind, some spendable $$, and a real partner, now you sound like the parent of a large spoiled child.
If you have not been married long it is easier to extract yourself, it is going to get worse.
I know someone else who continues to make excuse after excuse why their real adult child can't function, but they can't see to let go, they have fear that is paramount...but they keep getting dragged further and further..
In comparison it is easier to let a bad marriage go and find a better life...you and everyone deserve much more than crumbs.
I hope you are good today.
Sidenote: my brother is a retired gm of a large construction company...He works at Costco 25 hours a week pumping gas and gets many benefits, exercise of walking daily, free executive membership, American Express card, 3% discount on gas. He enjoys it.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 55
Thanks for all the responses. It's been a busy weekend & I'm getting ready to go do work for the class I'm taking, but quickly:
Inexcusable would mean, I suppose, causing harm or endangering my kids, my dog, or me, in that order. I can tolerate a lot, but don't mess with my kids or my doggy.
Other events bordering on inexcusable might include things like some of these nights I deal with his drunken behavior all night and I never get a chance to sleep, then work a full day afterward. I can't do but so many more of those. I know for his ex-wife, inexcusable came in the form of him getting drunk on the way home from an out of town work assignment.. literally drinking for several hours while driving home at night.. then getting lost and eventually pulling over into a parking lot of another town, passing out in his parked car for 20+ hours. She was home alone with 2 young kids and had no idea where he was for days. That was the final straw for her.
My first husband was a porn/sex addict. Does it sound CRAZY that this alcohol addiction is actually so much easier for me to deal with? I always have in my mind, at least he's not on the internet looking for filthy skanks to invite over for "photoshoots" in our basement. This seems more tolerable to me. I KNOW I shouldn't HAVE to tolerate anything, in a perfect world. But what we know & what we do dont always match up logically.
I hear what you're saying, Lexie, that just because I have been tolerating it doesn't mean that I have to continue tolerating it or wait for worse. I like that. I guess if all hope was gone & I saw nothing in this man, I'd be more likely to heed the advice. I'm not there yet, but that doesn't mean I wont be next month.
Today has been one of the good days with him. He claims he wont drink this evening & I think he may have taken an antabuse tablet. A good day with an alcoholic spouse, though, is kind've a catch-22 situation. It's great that it's good. But that "good" draws me back in, gives me hope, undoes some of the detachment I've accomplished, and makes me remember why I like him so much. When he's not drinking or thinking about drinking, he's got so much personality. But, the same problems always return. So... I try to take the good with a grain of salt and not get too encouraged.
I think a little detachment is the key. Ideally, I'd like to have a spouse/marital situation that didn't require that kind of detachment. Sometimes I think I'm "entitled" to better myself.
Time will tell.
Thanks all of y'all. Glad to have your continuing input and understanding & encouragement.
Inexcusable would mean, I suppose, causing harm or endangering my kids, my dog, or me, in that order. I can tolerate a lot, but don't mess with my kids or my doggy.
Other events bordering on inexcusable might include things like some of these nights I deal with his drunken behavior all night and I never get a chance to sleep, then work a full day afterward. I can't do but so many more of those. I know for his ex-wife, inexcusable came in the form of him getting drunk on the way home from an out of town work assignment.. literally drinking for several hours while driving home at night.. then getting lost and eventually pulling over into a parking lot of another town, passing out in his parked car for 20+ hours. She was home alone with 2 young kids and had no idea where he was for days. That was the final straw for her.
My first husband was a porn/sex addict. Does it sound CRAZY that this alcohol addiction is actually so much easier for me to deal with? I always have in my mind, at least he's not on the internet looking for filthy skanks to invite over for "photoshoots" in our basement. This seems more tolerable to me. I KNOW I shouldn't HAVE to tolerate anything, in a perfect world. But what we know & what we do dont always match up logically.
I hear what you're saying, Lexie, that just because I have been tolerating it doesn't mean that I have to continue tolerating it or wait for worse. I like that. I guess if all hope was gone & I saw nothing in this man, I'd be more likely to heed the advice. I'm not there yet, but that doesn't mean I wont be next month.
Today has been one of the good days with him. He claims he wont drink this evening & I think he may have taken an antabuse tablet. A good day with an alcoholic spouse, though, is kind've a catch-22 situation. It's great that it's good. But that "good" draws me back in, gives me hope, undoes some of the detachment I've accomplished, and makes me remember why I like him so much. When he's not drinking or thinking about drinking, he's got so much personality. But, the same problems always return. So... I try to take the good with a grain of salt and not get too encouraged.
I think a little detachment is the key. Ideally, I'd like to have a spouse/marital situation that didn't require that kind of detachment. Sometimes I think I'm "entitled" to better myself.
Time will tell.
Thanks all of y'all. Glad to have your continuing input and understanding & encouragement.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Watch the movie with him if you want to. If you don't want to--if he is drunk and it's distracting you, can you watch it in another room? You don't have to "ignore" him or refuse to sit with him unless it bothers you. You aren't putting a stamp of approval on his drinking by watching a movie with him.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Well, what were the discussions? Did you spell out specific boundaries, like "I'm not going to be in your company when you drink"? In that case, yeah, you are enforcing your boundary. If you haven't figured out your boundaries you should spend some time thinking about it. Those don't HAVE to be communicated to him, because the boundary is for you, not a "rule" for him.
If you're refusing to watch a movie for the purpose of "sending a message" of disapproval, though, that's a whole different thing. That's like training a dog by punishing it when it misbehaves.
If you're refusing to watch a movie for the purpose of "sending a message" of disapproval, though, that's a whole different thing. That's like training a dog by punishing it when it misbehaves.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
OK, well, here's the problem. It's his house, too. So he actually HAS every right to bring in alcohol, and to drink, in his own home. YOU don't have to be around it if it bothers you. Do you have another room you can go to? Because sitting in the same room and ignoring him or giving him the silent treatment looks a lot more like punishment than detachment.
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 55
Yep. I never even thought about that difference. I'm making lunches for tomorrow in the kitchen now. He's in there drinking & watching Netflix alone. I'm just gonna continue doing other things.
If I theoretically ever left this house, it is in my parents name. We have only a verbal rental agreement which I've always honored. The electricity is in my name, the water, the gas, the trash pick up, the Netflix account he is currently watching, & the internet he's watching it on, are all in my name & paid for by me. I bought the food he's in there eating. He never even brought so much as a piece of furniture when he moved in with my kids & me. And I've gotta call it "his" house.
Guess my ex husband used to say the same thing about ownership.
If I theoretically ever left this house, it is in my parents name. We have only a verbal rental agreement which I've always honored. The electricity is in my name, the water, the gas, the trash pick up, the Netflix account he is currently watching, & the internet he's watching it on, are all in my name & paid for by me. I bought the food he's in there eating. He never even brought so much as a piece of furniture when he moved in with my kids & me. And I've gotta call it "his" house.
Guess my ex husband used to say the same thing about ownership.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
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Posts: 55
Right back to where we started. After assuring me he wouldn't drink tonight, he did. "Just" a large bottle of wine, because wine is certainly classier than beer.
Now he's asleep, he went to bed mad at me because I didn't come sit with him soon enough. I'm on the couch alternating between doing schoolwork and listening to my youngest son wail loudly about why he has lost his computer privileges tomorrow.
Life doesn't feel so great at the moment.
Now he's asleep, he went to bed mad at me because I didn't come sit with him soon enough. I'm on the couch alternating between doing schoolwork and listening to my youngest son wail loudly about why he has lost his computer privileges tomorrow.
Life doesn't feel so great at the moment.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Hi MrsD, it must be hard having 3 children in the house. Have you thought about removing AH's computer privileges?
Seriously, alcoholics (I am a sober one) often think they're going to have a night off, then the urge hits. I'm not saying it's out of his control, just that he hasn't found a reason important enough to push through those strong cravings. One of my turning points to getting sober was the realisation that even one day off the drinking was too hard.
This is in no way a go at you, but he's escalated to the point where even one day off is a big ask, because he doesn't have an incentive to slow down.
Seriously, alcoholics (I am a sober one) often think they're going to have a night off, then the urge hits. I'm not saying it's out of his control, just that he hasn't found a reason important enough to push through those strong cravings. One of my turning points to getting sober was the realisation that even one day off the drinking was too hard.
This is in no way a go at you, but he's escalated to the point where even one day off is a big ask, because he doesn't have an incentive to slow down.
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