Dangerous hope
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Dangerous hope
I talked to my AH for over an hour today. He had some interesting things to say. He thinks he has traced when he started to lose grip and disappear in alcohol. He didn't tell me this to make an excuse, but as an exercise in understanding himself.
12 years ago we adopted two 1/2 brothers. Around the same time, his dad passed away and within a few months, his uncle and my grandmother both passed away. Within a 1.5 yrs my grandpa passed away. Somewhere in the mix of all that, I wanted to adopt these two precious boys who were 4 and 6 years old. My AH never objected, ever. We went through the motions and when it came time to make a decision, he seemed on board. I can remember asking him if he was sure because I knew it wouldn't work if he wasn't on board; it was a very big life changing decision we were making, especially since we already had 2 natural born sons. Unbeknownst to me, he did not want to adopt but couldn't bring himself to tell me this because he wanted me to be happy. In the middle of him relaying this to me today, he made it very clear if he could go back in time he wouldn't change it because he does truly love our adopted sons -- this was just his feelings at the time when it was surrounded by so much death on both sides of our family.
I remember this time well. He did disappear emotionally from our family. I was left to raise the family and go through all the difficulties on my own without any support from him. I bitterly accepted this and it has remained this way until this day. I'm glad he has opened up to me about how he felt at the time. It spiraled out of control and he finds himself where he is now.
He is a people pleaser and the word 'no' is the most difficult word for him to say. I admitted to him I know this about him and even spent a year, recently, trying to be his no person to others, which I stopped because I couldn't do it for him. I couldn't be all to everyone like I was trying to be.
I have a lot of emotion going on right now. A lot of past drudged up. Maybe at the time it was a mistake to adopt with all the turmoil going on around us, but the past is the past and I love those boys. He loves these boys.
We have a lot to work through. Years to work through. But I'm thankful he shared all that he did and thankful he has taken full responsibility for his choice on how to handle things. He is also trying to search out help for himself. He has a mens retreat he will go on next weekend. It isn't what he initially thought it was going to be, something to specifically work on addiction, but he is going anyway. He's trying to figure it out and he's reaching out to others. It gives me hope, but hope that scares the hell out of me because hope can be false, it can be dangerous, hurtful, and not something to hang my hat on, but its there. I just feel very raw and a little nauseous.
12 years ago we adopted two 1/2 brothers. Around the same time, his dad passed away and within a few months, his uncle and my grandmother both passed away. Within a 1.5 yrs my grandpa passed away. Somewhere in the mix of all that, I wanted to adopt these two precious boys who were 4 and 6 years old. My AH never objected, ever. We went through the motions and when it came time to make a decision, he seemed on board. I can remember asking him if he was sure because I knew it wouldn't work if he wasn't on board; it was a very big life changing decision we were making, especially since we already had 2 natural born sons. Unbeknownst to me, he did not want to adopt but couldn't bring himself to tell me this because he wanted me to be happy. In the middle of him relaying this to me today, he made it very clear if he could go back in time he wouldn't change it because he does truly love our adopted sons -- this was just his feelings at the time when it was surrounded by so much death on both sides of our family.
I remember this time well. He did disappear emotionally from our family. I was left to raise the family and go through all the difficulties on my own without any support from him. I bitterly accepted this and it has remained this way until this day. I'm glad he has opened up to me about how he felt at the time. It spiraled out of control and he finds himself where he is now.
He is a people pleaser and the word 'no' is the most difficult word for him to say. I admitted to him I know this about him and even spent a year, recently, trying to be his no person to others, which I stopped because I couldn't do it for him. I couldn't be all to everyone like I was trying to be.
I have a lot of emotion going on right now. A lot of past drudged up. Maybe at the time it was a mistake to adopt with all the turmoil going on around us, but the past is the past and I love those boys. He loves these boys.
We have a lot to work through. Years to work through. But I'm thankful he shared all that he did and thankful he has taken full responsibility for his choice on how to handle things. He is also trying to search out help for himself. He has a mens retreat he will go on next weekend. It isn't what he initially thought it was going to be, something to specifically work on addiction, but he is going anyway. He's trying to figure it out and he's reaching out to others. It gives me hope, but hope that scares the hell out of me because hope can be false, it can be dangerous, hurtful, and not something to hang my hat on, but its there. I just feel very raw and a little nauseous.
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One Day At A Time, Katchie.
One Day At A Time.
And some days, you have to break up into bite-size pieces or you'll choke on them.
Not to be a nag, but... what are you doing for yourself? (((hugs)))
One Day At A Time.
And some days, you have to break up into bite-size pieces or you'll choke on them.
Not to be a nag, but... what are you doing for yourself? (((hugs)))
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Originally Posted by lillamy 
One Day At A Time, Katchie.
One Day At A Time.
And some days, you have to break up into bite-size pieces or you'll choke on them.
Not to be a nag, but... what are you doing for yourself? (((hugs)))
One Day At A Time.
And some days, you have to break up into bite-size pieces or you'll choke on them.
Not to be a nag, but... what are you doing for yourself? (((hugs)))
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Katchie:
I think that is wonderful that he chose to open up to you about these things. It must have been eye-opening for you to realize he had all these feelings about things you didn't really think he had feelings about. WOW- I think you have a right to be impressed. I think it's really hard for these A's to talk about ANYTHING "real".
I'm glad he spoke to you for YOU. But I'm also glad for HIM.
Obviously, you and I know that too much optimism puts us out of our safety zone and we start making unrealistic expectations for our A's...but I think SOME optimism is needed and worth hanging on to. I think you should ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE HAPPY ABOUT THIS!! Be happy that he's going on this retreat. Yes, he may fail. Yes, he might go right back to where he was...but he's not doing it TODAY. He's not failing you TODAY. I think this is about living in the moment. Don't get your hopes up, but dammit, we deserve to share SOME happiness with our partners. And this man is STILL your partner until you (or him) decide he isn't.
I say, smile!! I say enjoy it and soak it up. Just don't EXPECT it.
Hugs to you girlie!!
I think that is wonderful that he chose to open up to you about these things. It must have been eye-opening for you to realize he had all these feelings about things you didn't really think he had feelings about. WOW- I think you have a right to be impressed. I think it's really hard for these A's to talk about ANYTHING "real".
I'm glad he spoke to you for YOU. But I'm also glad for HIM.
Obviously, you and I know that too much optimism puts us out of our safety zone and we start making unrealistic expectations for our A's...but I think SOME optimism is needed and worth hanging on to. I think you should ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE HAPPY ABOUT THIS!! Be happy that he's going on this retreat. Yes, he may fail. Yes, he might go right back to where he was...but he's not doing it TODAY. He's not failing you TODAY. I think this is about living in the moment. Don't get your hopes up, but dammit, we deserve to share SOME happiness with our partners. And this man is STILL your partner until you (or him) decide he isn't.
I say, smile!! I say enjoy it and soak it up. Just don't EXPECT it.
Hugs to you girlie!!
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Katchie...I am in alignment. I know that it is verry scary to show our tender underbelly after we have been hurt so much. It is a state of extreme vulnerability. Hence the nauseaus feeling. This is your sense of self-preservation kicking in.
Good that he can talk and share. Now, he has the task of navigating the journey to sobriety. He obviously has some deeply seated issues to excavate. It isn't easy and it isn't overnight...and, it isn't always linear, either.
You are smart to realize that hope can blind us to reality...especially when we want something soooo much.
I think for Katchie...the issue still remains....so, what is Katchie going to do.
Change is a'comin. It is long past the time where things can stay the same as they used to be. How to meet that change is the question.
dandylion
Good that he can talk and share. Now, he has the task of navigating the journey to sobriety. He obviously has some deeply seated issues to excavate. It isn't easy and it isn't overnight...and, it isn't always linear, either.
You are smart to realize that hope can blind us to reality...especially when we want something soooo much.
I think for Katchie...the issue still remains....so, what is Katchie going to do.
Change is a'comin. It is long past the time where things can stay the same as they used to be. How to meet that change is the question.
dandylion
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Katchie...I am in alignment. I know that it is verry scary to show our tender underbelly after we have been hurt so much. It is a state of extreme vulnerability. Hence the nauseaus feeling. This is your sense of self-preservation kicking in.
Good that he can talk and share. Now, he has the task of navigating the journey to sobriety. He obviously has some deeply seated issues to excavate. It isn't easy and it isn't overnight...and, it isn't always linear, either.
You are smart to realize that hope can blind us to reality...especially when we want something soooo much.
I think for Katchie...the issue still remains....so, what is Katchie going to do.
Change is a'comin. It is long past the time where things can stay the same as they used to be. How to meet that change is the question.
dandylion
Good that he can talk and share. Now, he has the task of navigating the journey to sobriety. He obviously has some deeply seated issues to excavate. It isn't easy and it isn't overnight...and, it isn't always linear, either.
You are smart to realize that hope can blind us to reality...especially when we want something soooo much.
I think for Katchie...the issue still remains....so, what is Katchie going to do.
Change is a'comin. It is long past the time where things can stay the same as they used to be. How to meet that change is the question.
dandylion
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I agree that it's just one day at a time.
The funny thing about hope is that it's simultaneous with what will happen in the future. I try to not go that far forward because it suddenly becomes very consuming, for me.
I am glad that your husband opened up to you. He sounds A LOT like my husband as far as saying "no" goes, except that as he's learned more and more about boundaries this past year he's been starting to tell me "no" much more frequently and I think he likes it. LOL Lucky for him I don't mind being told no sometimes. As for him telling our daughters no…that's a whole different ballgame.
The funny thing about hope is that it's simultaneous with what will happen in the future. I try to not go that far forward because it suddenly becomes very consuming, for me.
I am glad that your husband opened up to you. He sounds A LOT like my husband as far as saying "no" goes, except that as he's learned more and more about boundaries this past year he's been starting to tell me "no" much more frequently and I think he likes it. LOL Lucky for him I don't mind being told no sometimes. As for him telling our daughters no…that's a whole different ballgame.
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I'm always going to be a fan of cautious optimism. I think it's important that no matter what, we don't let these experiences strip us of every ability to be positive or hopeful. Hope has it's place in the world, we need it.
Of course, I'm not going to base my plan around Hope & it sounds like you aren't either. One of the frustrating parts for me has been when my RAH has these AHA moments & verbalizes them & I want to jump up & down that "he's getting it!" (even just a little) but then it doesn't become a plan put into action..... when he still hmms & haws when it comes to making the changes. When he doesn't even see that he's doing it - he gets so much relief having the Big Awareness that he doesn't see how much deeper it goes, he stops right there on the surface.
That baffles me because I'm the opposite; I run the tape allll the way through as much as possible & examine all the ways it impacts my life..... so, I get impatient & start wanting to tell him how to run his recovery by pointing out these "flaws" in his process. (and that's not fair)
You are doing GREAT Katchie, keep up the amazing recovery work! ((((HUGS))))
Of course, I'm not going to base my plan around Hope & it sounds like you aren't either. One of the frustrating parts for me has been when my RAH has these AHA moments & verbalizes them & I want to jump up & down that "he's getting it!" (even just a little) but then it doesn't become a plan put into action..... when he still hmms & haws when it comes to making the changes. When he doesn't even see that he's doing it - he gets so much relief having the Big Awareness that he doesn't see how much deeper it goes, he stops right there on the surface.
That baffles me because I'm the opposite; I run the tape allll the way through as much as possible & examine all the ways it impacts my life..... so, I get impatient & start wanting to tell him how to run his recovery by pointing out these "flaws" in his process. (and that's not fair)
You are doing GREAT Katchie, keep up the amazing recovery work! ((((HUGS))))
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I think its a very difficult subject to discuss that he didn't want to adopt - and I get that he loves them and is glad now.
Going through some tough stuff right now myself with sick parents moving them and selling their house. Yesterday I just had enough of that and all the normal things than go wrong in regular life. My thought was "I'd like to just go up to the bar and have some drinks and forget about it". I probably would have if I wasn't with RAH, and be regretting it today as drinks and me don't bode well the next day. Anyway, I can see how the appeal is there just to catch a buzz and forget about it. Why for some it can be a point they remember as the spiral into alcoholism, and others don't get caught up that way boggles my mind.
Nonetheless, the revelation of a date and action as to when someone's drinking escalated - I don't know if I give that much significance. Certainly there are A's that there is no significant action that lead them to start consuming more. Its interesting - it poses the question in my mind are alcoholics born or are they made? In my younger years I drank like a fish yet I was never an alcoholic. Guess that's a subject for another thread.
I think its great he told you this and honestly pretty brave to admit. What I hope does not happen is that it becomes the justification for his alcoholism.
Going through some tough stuff right now myself with sick parents moving them and selling their house. Yesterday I just had enough of that and all the normal things than go wrong in regular life. My thought was "I'd like to just go up to the bar and have some drinks and forget about it". I probably would have if I wasn't with RAH, and be regretting it today as drinks and me don't bode well the next day. Anyway, I can see how the appeal is there just to catch a buzz and forget about it. Why for some it can be a point they remember as the spiral into alcoholism, and others don't get caught up that way boggles my mind.
Nonetheless, the revelation of a date and action as to when someone's drinking escalated - I don't know if I give that much significance. Certainly there are A's that there is no significant action that lead them to start consuming more. Its interesting - it poses the question in my mind are alcoholics born or are they made? In my younger years I drank like a fish yet I was never an alcoholic. Guess that's a subject for another thread.
I think its great he told you this and honestly pretty brave to admit. What I hope does not happen is that it becomes the justification for his alcoholism.
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As a recovering alcoholic (23 years) I know it doesn't matter why I'm an alcoholic, just that I am one and that I take steps to stay sober. I'm glad you feel better after the conversation and hope things get better. If you can, let go of expectations and pray for him.
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Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr
As a recovering alcoholic (23 years) I know it doesn't matter why I'm an alcoholic, just that I am one and that I take steps to stay sober. I'm glad you feel better after the conversation and hope things get better. If you can, let go of expectations and pray for him.
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Originally Posted by Katchie
hope can be false, it can be dangerous, hurtful, and not something to hang my hat on, but its there.
We place our trust on our HP that what is going to happen is what is supposed to happen.
It is our own expectations of how and what we think should take place that is dangerous and false.
We can have hope, faith and we can pray but we have no control. We can only pray that what we want it also God's will and if it is not, then we need to look at our expectations and to accept the outcome.
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Originally Posted by GracieLou
Hope is not these things, expectations are.
We place our trust on our HP that what is going to happen is what is supposed to happen.
It is our own expectations of how and what we think should take place that is dangerous and false.
We can have hope, faith and we can pray but we have no control. We can only pray that what we want it also God's will and if it is not, then we need to look at our expectations and to accept the outcome.
We place our trust on our HP that what is going to happen is what is supposed to happen.
It is our own expectations of how and what we think should take place that is dangerous and false.
We can have hope, faith and we can pray but we have no control. We can only pray that what we want it also God's will and if it is not, then we need to look at our expectations and to accept the outcome.
I do have hope and faith that God's will, not mine, will be done. I also know that my AH has free will to choose and at some point, God will be hands off until he surrenders. I will continue to pray for my husband to surrender to God. I will also continue to pray for my strength doing His will and not mine.
Thank you all for your caring thoughts!
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