AnvilheadII

too funny! last year my dear husband finally gave in to my not so sly manipulation to mow the yard and promptly mowed over a rock that shot out sideways and shattered the rear passenger window of my car!!!!! it was a million in one shot, you could never repeat it. boy did i learn MY lesson about attempting to get him to do what I WANT HIM TO DO!

so glad you didn't have get a new SNOWBLOWER!

lizatola

It's funny, but I accepted a LONG time ago that my AH doesn't see the house cleanliness the way I do. I let go of any expectations many years ago about him pitching in or getting up and vacuuming the living room, as Anvil said.

I can't seem to apply that same thinking to the idea that AH is going to drink again. Maybe not this week/day, but probably next. I struggle with acceptance in certain areas but have no problem with them in other contexts/situations or with other people.

I like what Anvil posted about questioning if we set ourselves up for the next 'drink'. What JessicaJoe posted about the text thing is exactly what happens in my own mind, stomach chewing 2 hours and all! My AH was out of town for a few days and I know he likes to tie one on every so often. I needed to find out if he was available to take our son to the orthodontist next week as I have plans that AM, as well. I called him twice in a one hour period and he never answered. My mind started thinking about whether he drank himself to death, whether he's so hung over he's cheating his employer, etc. I finally called the hotel and had them ring the room and he answered immediately. I told him I called him twice and his response was, "Oh, dammit. I turned my ringer off last night and forgot to turn it back on. I missed 3 work calls!" So, at least I got a chance to tell him to turn his ringer on, but my codie behavior was uncalled for. Granted I was getting pressure from my friend to see if I was available next Tuesday but it wasn't an emergency.

I have a long way to go. Thanks Hammer for starting this thread.

Hammer

My Next "First Drink."

Sane Moms/ Sane Wives.

If I were doing guy-talk bravado, I would score this as (in football announcer voice) "Yeah, there a some MILFs. heh - heh." But THAT is not what this is.

This just a big trigger to a Self-Pity party.

Down to school this morning. They have an award session every couple of weeks, and this was the Mid-Point of the school year. By myself, as Mrs. Hammer already headed out to crazy rehab land.

Our kids were getting some awards. Grades, Reading, that kind of stuff.

And there are all these "Sane Moms" there. Or at least I imagine them so. So I start the Self-Pity routine just going on and on in my head. All these sane moms, why did I get the crazy addict one who hates me? Our kids are great. Doing all the great kids things. Doing well in school. Scouts. Extra activities. Mostly nice to each other most of the time.

And by the time it is done I go dragging myself out of the school to parking lot all depressed and self-pitying, about having the crazy addict wife who hates me, instead of one of the Sane Moms, Sane Wife.

jessicajoe

Oh Hammer there are two ways I would look at it, either works.

You don't really know what goes on in these sane moms' lives. I looked like one of them at one time. Believe me looks can be deceiving. Ever hear the expression "if everyone hung their troubles on a tree you would choose your own and run"? Your story needs to be about you and how you can make your future brighter not based on your perception of other peoples lives.

The second way is the one you know is coming. We choose to live with the people we choose to live with and we ain't going to live with anyone else whilst we choose to live with them.

Chin up Hammer

MissFixit

You have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. Pretty terrifying stuff can be behind glossy exteriors. My dad is a very prominent community leader who is highly received in his field and was horribly abusive to me at home. People think the world of him and he nurtures that image, but it is just an image. Years ago I lived in the apartment above a very wealthy well-known couple. He cussed her out and threw tantrums on a daily basis. She is sweet as pie and puts up with it. I heard a LOT of it and was amazed that went on at their home. They do not seem that way in public. You just never know.

Now, about you... You are with Mrs. Hammer because (like many of us) you have a bad picker who chooses to be with a crazy person (so did many of us until we addressed it). Maybe you are comfortable with someone who is sick so you can feel superior or be the knight in shining armor. Maybe you like the drama. Maybe you have low self esteem. Maybe its a combo. None of us knows that or can tell you what drives you towards her.

For me I was with two men (one after the other) who are versions of my father. The ex before the exA was verbally abusive and I LOVED him. Thought he loved me and put up with way too much crap for years as I was used to being yelled at by my father who told me I was the problem and too sensitive. The next one, the exA, was very kind and generous but his brand of crazy was super deceptive and it almost drove me crazy trying to rationalize his nice, not nice, lies, truth, etc...it was exhausting. I took a few years off to work on me and WTF drove me to men who mistreated me but the world loved. Both guys have TONS of friends. The behind closed doors thing was really tricky and I only started wrapping my brain around it when I was removed from all of it and getting therapy and living my life moving forward. There wasn't one light bulb moment that caused me to see things clearly. But, as long as I stayed involved with the crazy I could NEVER escape it.

You seem to be really holding onto a dream version (in your mind) of Mrs. Hammer that from your writing doesn't exist. It super sucks to deal with reality like that, but the only way you are going to get healthy and move forward is by accepting what you are living with and that each day, YOU ARE CHOOSING to be with a very unhealthy person for you and your kids. There is no out thinking it or doing mental gymnastics that will fix it or make your situation better. It is what it is, and you volunteer for it each day and then seem to wonder why is she lying, or why am I discontent? You are trying to be happy and content with an unhealthy person...and it doesn't work, never will. But maybe it will? With 99.99999% certainty I can tell you, you cannot be fully mentally healthy and happy with an unhealthy person. Your wife isn't just an A, she has serious mental stuff too. It isn't going away.

Hugs

lillamy

First of all, I guarantee you that they're not all sane. Some of them are crazy as loons, some of them probably are addicts, some of them probably are the same kind of crazy we are.

I asked myself that question for years. Every sports event. Every school event. Every band concert. When I sat there alone because God knows those events are all at night and AXH couldn't attend anything that started after work because that would put off his drinking. I would have a stomach ache when I knew people would ask where AXH was and I felt like I had to make up a story because "he couldn't wait to crack open his Costco-size bottle of vodka" just didn't sound good.

You can pity yourself or you can divorce the crazy wife and try to find a sane one.

Or you can remember that there are other people in that crowd who go to Al-Anon or AA or pop a handful of Xanax before venturing out or wonder why everyone else has a spouse and they're divorced or sit there and hold back tears because their kid never wins any awards.

I'll tell you one thing: I don't think in my eight years in Al-Anon and here at SR that I've met a guy who is fighting harder than you to keep his family together. And you're not just fighting hard but you're fighting smart. I have a tremendous amount of respect for you. I'm just hoping you're not wearing yourself completely out in the process.

And I know that however things end up for you and Mrs. Hammer, you will be able to honestly say to yourself and your kids that you really did do everything in your might to make it work.

AnvilheadII

hammer....YOU got to attend this special honor for your kids. YOU were there for them in the audience. what a beautiful thing! it's not about who was NOT there.....it's about YOU being THERE, being present, giving testament to your love for your children.

and i wonder just how many of those moms were thinking....damn i wish my old man could be bothered to show up........

you didn't GET the wife you have like a lottery drawing...you picked her and continue to pick her. when we acknowledge that we shift from victim to volunteer....and that can be quite empowering because it gives back to you the power of CHOICE.

so YAY to you and YAY to your kiddos. maybe ya'll can have pizza tonite or go out for ice cream just to keep the specialness of the day going and commemorate it! hopefully you got some good new refrigerator art!!!

CodeJob

Hammer I admire how committed - dogged - you are in your recovery. Did you consider that your previous step sponsor was trying to get you to chill on your perfectionism? Was he/she trying to point out that doing things half assed at your level was still super human effort for the average Joe? Was this person recognizing that going full throttle on step work is just another sign of you trying to fix your marriage or avert blame?

In June you say you will reassess, when you finish the steps. You may be so serene you float in June but it sounds like there will be a grave mismatch between you and your wife's level of recovery. No matter what you do, she has a dual diagnosis - long term mental illness - which is a wild card that you can't engineer or work around.

I attended a curriculum night last week and looked the sane mom. I was still in work clothes and my presence meant I was concerned about my kid's education. But I have depression and am a bit numb most days so I am perhaps not wholly sane right now. Perfectionism and Type A has brought me success in my work, but has made me too tenacious in relationships. I don't know when to let go. I struggled in that meeting between wanting to push my son and letting him find his own path. I was a full throttle perfectionist in school but my son is not. Luckily for him I dealt with my Tiger Mom tendencies and went home and helped him register for his selected classes. I let go to let him find his own path.

Maybe you are striving so hard at recovery to avoid the fact that her cues (compulsive lying and hating you) and your gut instinct is it is time to let go. I wonder if you are just trying not to fail because you never fail. You try hard and harder as if the end result of recovery is a magical elixir which will save your wife. I fear you will find the elixir, but your wife will refuse it.

lizatola

I needed to read this today, because I know it's so fitting to ME. Sorry to hijack here, Hammer, but I know this is where I struggle. Being the perfect wife, the perfect mom, etc and knowing that maybe just maybe I still can fix it all by myself. Thank you for this gentle reminder!

Hammer

Sure I understand the motive of permitting Half-Ass. However, it failed and is likely to continue to fail as it does not consider then nature of the targeted person (me). I do have the self-awareness that full-throttle does tend succeed with me. Maybe think of Aircraft Stall Speed? If it is not going fast enough, it falls.

As far as fix or fail -- this is more like clearing the lane.

Here is the matrix of a Logic AND Gate.

The inputs in this are the "partners"

Either they each put in:

"1" ie, Fully They Fully Work their Program, or
"0" ie, The Do Not Fully Work their Program.

The output, or results are

"1" Things Work, or
"0" Things Do Not Work.

By the Table, as in Life, you ONLY get "Things Work" IF Both the Inputs are "1" or True.



I only control MY OWN input. So I will choose to Fully Work MY Program.

I am quite certain that ME NOT FULLY WORKING HAS NOT WORKED.

As for whether SHE Works Her Side? Not MY Problem, Not MY Concern.


And one I do not need to.

The "Don't Care" Variables are the Favored Ones.

Sure. Good for You. And him. Different Strokes for Different Folks.

Self-Paced is often the Best Pace for many.

I can and did "Hands Off" on troops, workers, students, the kids, and now Mrs. Hammer when it is the best path.

Again, this is NOT about controlling or directing anyone nor any outcome, other than what I choose to do with/for me.

================

As far as the Sane Mom daydream. It is a dream. Not a reality.

Same as from here -- in a discussion of "What Makes You Happy."

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post4378441

When Mrs. Hammer came back from Rehab, and would feel nutty and she would go sleep on the floor -- I would have pleasant dreams of her, and miss her.

Now she comes to bed -- and I have nightmares of her.


I "fail" often. It is sometimes even expected. My lead customer just spent millions, and I spent a year and half on their project, and they are building little to none of it. By the time I finish the Reliability Review, I may have to recommend shutting down what they do have. Some things you just cannot help.

Really (Really, Really, Really) NOT trying to cure her.

Comes down to the same thing they told me first day of Alanon -- Mrs. Hammer is Not My Problem.

Hammer

hmmm, well, it was not really a pick, but understand no complaint. So whacked I have not even really put the full story on here. But to me this is more a God Trip, and so having signed on, I continue the ride.

Yeah, maybe by the weekend or so.

Thank you.

AnvilheadII

so it wasn't your choice to marry her and now it's God's fault? if it wasn't a pick then what was it? don't tell me there's a mountain, a bush on fire and some stone tablets involved.............?

Hammer

naw. NOT a problem in that regard. Some projects are considered Green-Field. All open, clean, new construction. Some are Brown-Field. Stuff already there. Often worn-out, hazardous, or junk. Sometimes has some stuff worth keeping. Brown-Field (or metaphorically ourselves) that have existing messes and merit are generally much more work than Green-Field. I will get the Brown-Field issues of ME -- Cleaned up, trashed out, and ready to rebuild. Making a Mess IS PART of the Process.

Back when I used to "Max" (go past 100% on the ratings) the Military PT Tests -- Sometimes I would jog backwards across the finish line. Some folks loved that and would laugh. Some hated it. I just did it because that is the jackass I am. Same here, same now.

lillamy

Sorry I have to pull this out again because whether or not it's true for Hammer, it needs to be said. Over. And over. And over. I spent so many years feeling sorry for myself for being married to an ass. Until someone told me to my face that maybe I should consider what choosing to stay married to an ass made me?

Hammer

hmmmm, I think you are mis-reading something not there that I did not say, and said I had not said.

THAT was what this part is about -- So whacked I have not even really put the full story on here.

And you did not hear me say anything about fault for or about anyone anywhere, did you? Really just checking, because it is certainly not how I view things.

Mrs. Hammer has some Mental Illness -- I do not consider that God's Fault, nor My Fault, nor Mrs. Hammer's Fault, nor MIL Fault (but boy does she carry that one), nor anyone else's fault.

Have you ever heard THIS story? Some folks were asking about "Faults" and Illnesses --

===============

John 9:1-12
New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Heals a Man Born Blind

9 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4 As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

6 After saying this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man’s eyes. 7 “Go,” he told him, “wash in the Pool of Siloam” (this word means “Sent”). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.

8 His neighbors and those who had formerly seen him begging asked, “Isn’t this the same man who used to sit and beg?” 9 Some claimed that he was.

Others said, “No, he only looks like him.”

But he himself insisted, “I am the man.”

10 “How then were your eyes opened?” they asked.

11 He replied, “The man they call Jesus made some mud and put it on my eyes. He told me to go to Siloam and wash. So I went and washed, and then I could see.”

12 “Where is this man?” they asked him.

“I don’t know,” he said.

MissFixit

Hammer, what? Not following your God analogy at all.

Hammer

Yeah, sometimes my "Mixed Metaphors" just turn into Mixed-Up Messes.

What I was trying to say is that I do not really see all or maybe even most things as "faults."

Anvil had mused . . . it's God's fault? I am not seeing Mrs. Hammer's issues as needed to be a "fault" thing at all. Nobody's fault. Just what things are in the here and now (as folks' have been encouraging me to accept).

Like the Jesus thing with the blind guy -- folks were trying assign fault to this, or fault to that. Jesus says . . . ummm, neither -- this is just the run-up to a Miracle. and then Shazam.

A-dom can be the same way. Folks are probably tired of seeing it, but look at How It Works. Not a "fault" thing at all. Does not say be this genome marker indicates A, nor because the A was dropped on his head as baby . . . none of that "fault" crap.

Just yeah, that sucks -- now here is the path out -- the run up to the Miracle.

They just come to God . . . Like the Blind Man -- and are Fixed.

===========

How it works

RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided that you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it - then you are ready to take certain steps.

At some of these we balked. We thought that we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.

Remember that we deal with alcohol - cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power - that One is God. May you find him now.

Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon.

Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Many of us exclaimed, "What an order! I can't go through with it." Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we were willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection.

Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:

(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.

(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.

(c) That God could and would if He were sought.

How it works - Chapter 5, page 58-60 of the Book, Alcoholics Anonymous © Alcoholics Anonymous

MissFixit

Okay. I think I see where you are coming from. It isn't about faults. Don't think any of us think we or they or God or anyone is at fault. People have issues and they can choose to deal with them or not.

I think what everyone was getting at is that you choose each day to be with your wife. You post almost daily about frustrations you encounter with her related to her A disease side effects or another mental illness. What we are saying is that you know that she is ill -- not at fault exactly but she does choose to remain where she is-- not well. You choose to stay with a wife who is ill and chooses to not get well. You choose that each day by staying with her.

You know how she is and who she is at this point. None of her stuff is a surprise to you. You choose someone who cannot fulfill your needs/desires. The mental illness stuff alone impedes her from ever being an equal partner. That is reality. Waiting on her to get better or you to work the steps to accept her the way she is isn't going to solve anything. She will still be ill and you will still be wanting a sane wife which she cannot be. No matter how many steps you work, she will be sick and unable to be a real partner.

I think it is fine that you are working the steps, but I personally think that therapy would be beneficial to you where you are. I think you make excuses to stay married to someone who is unhealthy and getting to the bottom of why you are doing that and then NOT doing that would actually help you. I don't know how to phrase that in a non-advice giving way, so sorry. Using the kids as the reason you stay is an excuse that people have told you they used for a long time. I think you use that excuse too.

You can be married to a sane wife/partner, but you cannot be married to a sane wife and be married to Mrs. Hammer. Everyone is just using different ways to tell you that. But, I think you already know that. You just don't like it and are trying to figure out a way around it. There isn't a way around it.

Sorry this is so preachy..

Flavia2

"When Mrs. Hammer came back from Rehab, and would feel nutty and she would go sleep on the floor -- I would have pleasant dreams of her, and miss her.

Now she comes to bed -- and I have nightmares of her."


Same here. Have you figured out why this is so?

Regroup

I was that "sane mom" I was involved in my husbands unit FRG (family readiness group), I have 3 kids in lots of sports and after school activities. My oldest is on the honor roll, they always wore nice clothes and bows in their hair. I never leave the house without make up and dressed nicely. I always made sure the outside picture of our life was the picture perfect typical model family. If only anyone scratched the surface they would see how totally wrong first impressions are. This past summer my AH was deployed and in the true codependent fashion I found myself up to my neck in the middle of my friends divorce. She was the addict and as I found out WAY too late into the game I had gone from one addict (my husband) to another. I again tried to make everything ok for her kids while she drank and pop pills nightly and pass out in random places around her house. I wore myself out being her Enabler. I think seeing how huge the downward spiral went and how fast she dropped me when I no longer enabled her behavior made me take a closer look at my life. Fast foward a couple months my husband came home from deployment and I again started all of my codependent behaviors again. I am just at the beginning in MY road to recovery but I can see a large fork in the road... One where I stay in this endless cycle of self abuse and one where my girls learn that it's not ever ok for someone live the way I have been allowing him to treat us... There is light at the end of the tunnel of I choose that path!! I've had to realize that I have had to break this picture I create of our perfect family in my own head and some people close to us just to get the help I need for me and my kids and I will have to say admitting that my whole world and the core of my life is a wreck had been a VERY humbling experience.