This is a request for the As out there
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well, I know he stopped drinking while he was doing the 18 month rehab..since then I guess I don't. He says he has 4 yrs sober in Feb. I only have his word and as I say that I kinda laugh to myself...but really it doesn't matter. If we lived close and he had a relationship with our son I guess it would but we live 5000 miles apart and he has no relationship other then to send gift cards on bdays and xmas and the random phone call every 6 months or so....
I get it foolsgold...I have no control over this but I tend to think until I understand something there is nothing I can do about it and I know there is NOTHING I can do about this.
kflee...your story brought tears to my eyes...its is very similar to mine and I can remember trying my hardest to keep things together and just not knowing what I was doing wrong and feeling so frustrated.
I get it foolsgold...I have no control over this but I tend to think until I understand something there is nothing I can do about it and I know there is NOTHING I can do about this.
kflee...your story brought tears to my eyes...its is very similar to mine and I can remember trying my hardest to keep things together and just not knowing what I was doing wrong and feeling so frustrated.
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As a Alkie, I didn't read that as he choose to give up his wife and boys to get clean, but that it was a consequence of his addiction that made him choose sobriety.
That is a subtle but important difference. I don't know if that will makes sense to yall but that's my take on it.
That is a subtle but important difference. I don't know if that will makes sense to yall but that's my take on it.
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My take is that without a program of recovery, (such as AA, RR, etc), and/or addiction therapy, the recovered alcoholic may never address a lot of the issues they were drinking over. They might stay sober, but they don't develop personally.
Occasionally I meet a sober A who continues to do selfish things, still harms people, still is self-absorbed. Not surprisingly these folks often mention that they never needed to work the steps, or never needed to do a personal inventory, because they "never harmed anyone". Right.
Sure it's nice that they are sober, but it's a pity that they don't make any progress in their sobriety. Sounds like your ex hasn't grown much: he split up with you, not with his kids. It also sounds bizarre that a newly recovered alcoholic would hook up with a heavy drinker. Most newly recovered alcoholics would run like hXXl from a relationship with a drinker.
Occasionally I meet a sober A who continues to do selfish things, still harms people, still is self-absorbed. Not surprisingly these folks often mention that they never needed to work the steps, or never needed to do a personal inventory, because they "never harmed anyone". Right.
Sure it's nice that they are sober, but it's a pity that they don't make any progress in their sobriety. Sounds like your ex hasn't grown much: he split up with you, not with his kids. It also sounds bizarre that a newly recovered alcoholic would hook up with a heavy drinker. Most newly recovered alcoholics would run like hXXl from a relationship with a drinker.
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye13 
I think it is the just the spin he either tells others / or tells others and believes himself to make what he did more palatable to himself and his audience.
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Taking5 I saw that possibility too. He said she said who knows...
I'm not sure how much of a parent-child relationship there can be from 5000 miles away? How much relationship do you actually want your son to have with his father? I'm not sure this is necessarily even addiction-related. I've seen parents that wouldn't cross town to see their kids that aren't addicts. Some people don't have a parent 'gene' but have kids anyway.
I'm not sure how much of a parent-child relationship there can be from 5000 miles away? How much relationship do you actually want your son to have with his father? I'm not sure this is necessarily even addiction-related. I've seen parents that wouldn't cross town to see their kids that aren't addicts. Some people don't have a parent 'gene' but have kids anyway.
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I respect what you say. I also understand that you do not nor will never assume all blame falls on him. In my story I shared, I will admit I drove my ex crazy sometimes.. I can tell that you don't play the blame game and don't intend to use that as a tool against him. I admire that. And admire how you don't want to play the martyr role anymore. You seem to understand that everyone plays a role or part in your situation.
Although I have to give the best compliment. It's not about being "great mom" " great person", "staying strong" , etc. BUT...THE ONE THING you have done is join this network. You took the time to ask us advice and express your situation. I can tell that you just simply want to understand the reality of its entirety. The fact that you respect our words and other opinions from other As make me think right now in life YOU WILL FIND THE ANSWER you are looking for.
If I can shed any light on this situation I would say that you may be similar to myself in the sense of relationships. I only mean the sense of being in a relationship with two addicts that have left you and the kids. I myself found that I subconsciously was choosing men that would make me a martyr. Does that make any sense? Sorry if it doesn't. I have a natural gift to help people and actually I do help people for a living. I work full time Chiropractic/Orthopedic specialist now but my whole life I always fell into very similar patterns with relationships. Always men that needed fixing or some type of small tune up. This may not be at all what you are like, and you may disagree. But it was me and it took a while to figure it out. I fell madly in love with my ex because he was kind, sharing, but most important was that he madly in love with me. I grew up with an alcoholic father and I was very mature at 16 years old. For me I thought that was the norm. For me to be with a man because he needs me and I can help him. I watched my mother do it, so I just simply took on that role.
I just wanted to mention why I made the choices I made. Good luck with your situation.
Although I have to give the best compliment. It's not about being "great mom" " great person", "staying strong" , etc. BUT...THE ONE THING you have done is join this network. You took the time to ask us advice and express your situation. I can tell that you just simply want to understand the reality of its entirety. The fact that you respect our words and other opinions from other As make me think right now in life YOU WILL FIND THE ANSWER you are looking for.
If I can shed any light on this situation I would say that you may be similar to myself in the sense of relationships. I only mean the sense of being in a relationship with two addicts that have left you and the kids. I myself found that I subconsciously was choosing men that would make me a martyr. Does that make any sense? Sorry if it doesn't. I have a natural gift to help people and actually I do help people for a living. I work full time Chiropractic/Orthopedic specialist now but my whole life I always fell into very similar patterns with relationships. Always men that needed fixing or some type of small tune up. This may not be at all what you are like, and you may disagree. But it was me and it took a while to figure it out. I fell madly in love with my ex because he was kind, sharing, but most important was that he madly in love with me. I grew up with an alcoholic father and I was very mature at 16 years old. For me I thought that was the norm. For me to be with a man because he needs me and I can help him. I watched my mother do it, so I just simply took on that role.
I just wanted to mention why I made the choices I made. Good luck with your situation.
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foolsgold I think your right, its not totally addiction related...we moved 6 months ago because my son was acting out...to the point he was putting himself in danger with drugs and drinking, I believe, because his Dad would not step up and be involved in his life. He lived 4 blocks away from us and would go months and months with out seeing him. I would call him to come over and help me, support me as a parent when he would punch holes in the walls and he would not come. I could go on but it got to the point that I realized he was not going to step up and I needed to help my son. We moved to be closer to family..my mother uncle brother etc...it has helped tremendously.
Trust me when I say I still feel guilty for that at times, I did not want to take him away from his dad but I realized there was no dad to take him away from.
kflee...the comment that you fell in love with him because he was so in love with you....wow..that hit a nerve, that's how I felt about my X...I think he needed to be taken care of, my specialty and he was so crazy in love with me...thanks for that share.
I know ive been told on here before..when you dry out an alcoholic jerk what do you have left..a sober jerk. I just find it confusing that HE blames it on his sobriety and keeps it related to his drinking. maybe hes just a jacka#!. I don't believe there is any cure for that either.
Trust me when I say I still feel guilty for that at times, I did not want to take him away from his dad but I realized there was no dad to take him away from.
kflee...the comment that you fell in love with him because he was so in love with you....wow..that hit a nerve, that's how I felt about my X...I think he needed to be taken care of, my specialty and he was so crazy in love with me...thanks for that share.
I know ive been told on here before..when you dry out an alcoholic jerk what do you have left..a sober jerk. I just find it confusing that HE blames it on his sobriety and keeps it related to his drinking. maybe hes just a jacka#!. I don't believe there is any cure for that either.
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taking5..ive thought of it from that point, but I don't understand that either. His son all but begged for his attention. losing his son was not a consequence of his drinking..his son did not care and loved him unconditionally. He chose to withdraw from him (our son)and cut off all ties with our older boys. None of them shunned him, our middle son has sever disabilities and doesn't know the difference in if he is drinking or has a girlfriend...he just missed him..for a long long time. then he forgot about him.
If he is thinking that way...it is a punishment he has put on himself and the boys don't see it that way. They don't see it as THEY chose to not have a relationship with him anymore. They see it as he met another woman and cut all ties with all of them. They aren't angry at him they are hurt.
But I do see what you mean, HE could see it as a consequence ...if he does that I pity him for.
If he is thinking that way...it is a punishment he has put on himself and the boys don't see it that way. They don't see it as THEY chose to not have a relationship with him anymore. They see it as he met another woman and cut all ties with all of them. They aren't angry at him they are hurt.
But I do see what you mean, HE could see it as a consequence ...if he does that I pity him for.
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She told me that when her uncle (my XRAH) heard she was going into rehab he sent her a message and encouraged her and told her that he had to give up a lot for his sobriety including his wife (me) and his son but it was worth it and what he had to do to stay sober.
How is giving up your own son "worth it"? Don't understand that sentence.
Could be that she explained it poorly, and he said something like he had to lose a lot, including his wife and son, and had to give up a lot of things (maybe friends, etc) to stay sober but it's worth it.
Do you think that the niece is manipulative enough to twist his words to get a reaction out of you, so she can "side with you", agreeing that what he said was wrong...in order to manipulate you into giving her money (for drugs)?
I think I explained that poorly but hopefully you get the idea.
Those are the only things I can think of, other than the message was deleted correctly...in which case, eff him.
Peace.
Edit: I'm not an alcoholic. Recovered or active. Hope it's ok I posted my thoughts...hopefully I didn't offend by doing so.
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sadly OnawaMiniya I saw the message and saw for myself how it was said....his exact words were I gave up a lot to stay sober, my wife and my son ...why a person would have to "give up" your only child to stay sober is beyond me....and having to give me up to stay sober feels a lot like blaming me for his drinking.
As was said before in this thread...he may be sober but he definitely is not in any kind of recovery.
As was said before in this thread...he may be sober but he definitely is not in any kind of recovery.
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FMB,
I am separated from my AH too now for 1.5 years and we share a little daughter. So what I am about to say is something I have had much therapy and experiences with....but you have to cut those ties with his family in that manner.
I would rescue my husbands whole dysfunctional family because they are all addicts (with children who I love very much)even when we first were separated and they still come to me from time to time but you need to make that boundary to protect yourself. You shouldnt intermingle with people who contribute to the "he said/she said"...its too painful and doesnt allow you to heal. I understand there will be minimal contact because they are related to your children but keep it in minimal and politely say "I am just moving on from this".
You were hurt in such a major way you need to heal and take care of YOU and your boys. Get to a point where anything you hear through the grapevine won't fluster you and gain some distance...protect yourself.
I am separated from my AH too now for 1.5 years and we share a little daughter. So what I am about to say is something I have had much therapy and experiences with....but you have to cut those ties with his family in that manner.
I would rescue my husbands whole dysfunctional family because they are all addicts (with children who I love very much)even when we first were separated and they still come to me from time to time but you need to make that boundary to protect yourself. You shouldnt intermingle with people who contribute to the "he said/she said"...its too painful and doesnt allow you to heal. I understand there will be minimal contact because they are related to your children but keep it in minimal and politely say "I am just moving on from this".
You were hurt in such a major way you need to heal and take care of YOU and your boys. Get to a point where anything you hear through the grapevine won't fluster you and gain some distance...protect yourself.
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4MB --
My read between the lines is that after OW took him on she put terms of limiting contact with you all as part of making her claim on him.
Since she is apparently a sleazy A, and is aware he is a sleazy A, (else they would not be together, right?) she does not trust him. Takes one to know one, right?
So you and "your" kids had to be cut off. Just a day in the business of sleazy A-dom.
He is locked in by shame at this point. Not calling him any sort of victim at this point, but really you may all be much better off with this out of your lives.
My read between the lines is that after OW took him on she put terms of limiting contact with you all as part of making her claim on him.
Since she is apparently a sleazy A, and is aware he is a sleazy A, (else they would not be together, right?) she does not trust him. Takes one to know one, right?
So you and "your" kids had to be cut off. Just a day in the business of sleazy A-dom.
He is locked in by shame at this point. Not calling him any sort of victim at this point, but really you may all be much better off with this out of your lives.
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hi
i agree with hammer's take that she likely gave him an ultimatum about not contacting you and your kids including his son.
my ex (before the exA) now wife felt threatened by me (don't know why) and he was not allowed contact with me from their engagement forward. some women do that out of fear/control.
your ex's lady got him through cheating and deception, so that is how she will have to keep him.
i agree with hammer's take that she likely gave him an ultimatum about not contacting you and your kids including his son.
my ex (before the exA) now wife felt threatened by me (don't know why) and he was not allowed contact with me from their engagement forward. some women do that out of fear/control.
your ex's lady got him through cheating and deception, so that is how she will have to keep him.
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Sounds very odd to me. I wanted to get sober for my children so they could have a normal life. I did'nt turn my back on them when it happened. Perhaps he is just selfish and feels more at ease with a woman for whom he can pick up the pieces. He may like to have that kind of control over someone. You are better off without that sort of behaviour xxx
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Originally Posted by formyboys
sadly OnawaMiniya I saw the message and saw for myself how it was said....his exact words were I gave up a lot to stay sober, my wife and my son ...why a person would have to "give up" your only child to stay sober is beyond me....and having to give me up to stay sober feels a lot like blaming me for his drinking.
As was said before in this thread...he may be sober but he definitely is not in any kind of recovery.
As was said before in this thread...he may be sober but he definitely is not in any kind of recovery.
I can only hope he worded that poorly and leave more like he lost a lot.
But if his intention was to literally say he had to give you two up to stay sober, that is a giant QUACK.
(((((Hugs)))))
Peace.
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I choose to believe that he worded it wrong...he was never any good at articulating his feelings. Either way, He made his choices...he has to live with them. A real man can own them and except it.
I feel a lot of freedom from this lately, not as anxiety ridden and scared as I have been. I know my truth and I know he knows his to. I am not going to allow him to control my life anymore. He by no means deserves another second of my thoughts or my tears. I hope I can hold on to that.
I will continue to pray for him as the father of my son, and hope he can someday find some peace.
I feel a lot of freedom from this lately, not as anxiety ridden and scared as I have been. I know my truth and I know he knows his to. I am not going to allow him to control my life anymore. He by no means deserves another second of my thoughts or my tears. I hope I can hold on to that.
I will continue to pray for him as the father of my son, and hope he can someday find some peace.
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I am presuming an A is one who is or has been a problem drinker? Is it one of the abreviations they use in Al anon? I am not really familiar with all that. Never thought of myself as an A. It made me chuckle, don't worry, I wasn't offended at all. You learn something new every day ... all good. I thought I was quite wise and a long time sober, but I am learning so much of this forum 
Just move on with your life anyway. You haven't done anything wrong, that's the main thing. Good luck xxxxx
Just move on with your life anyway. You haven't done anything wrong, that's the main thing. Good luck xxxxx
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Originally Posted by KateL
I am presuming an A is one who is or has been a problem drinker? Is it one of the abreviations they use in Al anon? I am not really familiar with all that. Never thought of myself as an A. It made me chuckle, don't worry, I wasn't offended at all. You learn something new every day ... all good. I thought I was quite wise and a long time sober, but I am learning so much of this forum Just move on with your life anyway. You haven't done anything wrong, that's the main thing. Good luck xxxxx
Just move on with your life anyway. You haven't done anything wrong, that's the main thing. Good luck xxxxxAddict, Alcoholic, Anorexic, on and on.
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I do not know whether this can be explained by addiction alone. I think many of us were a little messed up before we started drinking and the drinking did not improve things to say it mildly.
I find it strange to say his recovery is dependent on not having contact with your children, that does sound messed up.
My own parents did divorce around I was twelve and I did not have much contact with my father, who was a drunk, after that. I think I talked to him on the phone a couple of times during my teens. I was very resentful regarding this and set out to meet him in my early twenties. I did had a score to settle. I was very surprised to meet him in bad health, torn down and anxious. I kind of felt that he stole the opportunity to settle the score by being so weak and miserable.
It is often just sad and miserable cases, I am not sure it is important what the motives are – I am pretty sure it is more weakness that strength – it is just not what a 15-16 year boy needs.
He is lucky to have you – you come a cross as being very sensible and balanced on this.
He can do without a father, that has been done – it would be great if the 3 brothers could use each other, that could help this teenager a lot I think.
I find it strange to say his recovery is dependent on not having contact with your children, that does sound messed up.
My own parents did divorce around I was twelve and I did not have much contact with my father, who was a drunk, after that. I think I talked to him on the phone a couple of times during my teens. I was very resentful regarding this and set out to meet him in my early twenties. I did had a score to settle. I was very surprised to meet him in bad health, torn down and anxious. I kind of felt that he stole the opportunity to settle the score by being so weak and miserable.
It is often just sad and miserable cases, I am not sure it is important what the motives are – I am pretty sure it is more weakness that strength – it is just not what a 15-16 year boy needs.
He is lucky to have you – you come a cross as being very sensible and balanced on this.
He can do without a father, that has been done – it would be great if the 3 brothers could use each other, that could help this teenager a lot I think.
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Thanks for the share Soberhawk...I also have a background of abandonment by my "father". I come from a family of 6 kids raised by a single mother. He moved my mother from Missouri with my 3 older siblings and they had 3 more before he left when I was 2 and never came back. No child support and never heard from him again. My mother raised us all alone with the help of her church and taught me to be very independent. It was tabo to even ask about him which I did not do until I was in my 30s. Im now 50 and just found out recently he died in prison where he had been for many years on attempted murder charges on his second wife. For all I know I have other siblings that I know nothing about.
obviously that is where my concern for my sons comes from. I know how it feels to be abandoned by someone who is suppose to love you unconditionally. I hate that unintentionally I have continued the cycle. My fear is that when he is older he will search out the relationship he did not get from his dad and be disappointed. I also fear that he will "leave me" and go to his dad. That is really hard for me to admit and I hate that side of me...I know its my whole abandonment issue and I do not lay this on him or ever bring it up but it is my worst fear.
Hes 16, hes going to leave eventually...I know this is my stuff and made worse by the fact that his dad left me and I am alone now. But I know all to well what having a parent leave you does to a person emotionally and mentally. I don't want him have the insecurities that I grew up with. The ones that more then likely were the reason I ended up with his father in the first place.
wow...this thread has brought a lot of things to light for me. Thank you ...all of you for taking the time to post your thoughts and share your stories. I really appreciate all of them.
obviously that is where my concern for my sons comes from. I know how it feels to be abandoned by someone who is suppose to love you unconditionally. I hate that unintentionally I have continued the cycle. My fear is that when he is older he will search out the relationship he did not get from his dad and be disappointed. I also fear that he will "leave me" and go to his dad. That is really hard for me to admit and I hate that side of me...I know its my whole abandonment issue and I do not lay this on him or ever bring it up but it is my worst fear.
Hes 16, hes going to leave eventually...I know this is my stuff and made worse by the fact that his dad left me and I am alone now. But I know all to well what having a parent leave you does to a person emotionally and mentally. I don't want him have the insecurities that I grew up with. The ones that more then likely were the reason I ended up with his father in the first place.
wow...this thread has brought a lot of things to light for me. Thank you ...all of you for taking the time to post your thoughts and share your stories. I really appreciate all of them.
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