This is a request for the As out there
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This is a request for the As out there
I know we have some pretty insightful As on our group...I would like some feedback from any of you that care to contribute their views or experience with this...
a recap on my story..married to an A for 17 yrs..we raised my 2 older boys together from young ages and had 1 son together, now 16. Divorce was final last year. I moved out after 15 yrs of tolerating his promises of stopping drinking and he entered an 18 month out patient rehab. Toward the end of that rehab I caught him with another woman. He decided he wanted to be with her and divorced me. That was over 2 years ago and has no contact at all with the older boys since...minimal contact at best with our son together. The OW has 3 teenage kids who he has become pretty involved with. From the stories my younger son has told she is a heavy drinker. He will have 4 years sober in Feb.
Recently the young niece of XRAH had her young child taken away from her and my in laws have been raising her. They are older and in poor health and didn't have anything for her so I have been sending packages when I can. Just clothes toys etc...and some presents at Christmas time for her. I admire them for taking it all on. The niece and I are in contact..she has asked for money and I had to turn her down since she was using it for drugs etc. but recently she has agreed to go into rehab which is awesome...she want to clean up and get her daughter back.
She told me that when her uncle (my XRAH) heard she was going into rehab he sent her a message and encouraged her and told her that he had to give up a lot for his sobriety including his wife (me) and his son but it was worth it and what he had to do to stay sober.
I don't understand this....it feels like he is still blaming me for his drinking. He did that in the beginning after I first caught him with this woman. He said he was not leaving for her he was leaving because his sobriety was more important and he had to be selfish. (although he never spoke of divorce until he met her..he actually was telling everyone he couldn't believe what he had put us through and was so thankful that his family was still around and wanted him and that was all he needed)
Why would anyone need to leave their children to stay sober?? That part I will never understand...leaving me, I guess that is a choice he made but actually saying he had to leave his son, and for that matter the boys he raised as his own for 17 years, I don't understand...
can anyone shed some light on this for me?
a recap on my story..married to an A for 17 yrs..we raised my 2 older boys together from young ages and had 1 son together, now 16. Divorce was final last year. I moved out after 15 yrs of tolerating his promises of stopping drinking and he entered an 18 month out patient rehab. Toward the end of that rehab I caught him with another woman. He decided he wanted to be with her and divorced me. That was over 2 years ago and has no contact at all with the older boys since...minimal contact at best with our son together. The OW has 3 teenage kids who he has become pretty involved with. From the stories my younger son has told she is a heavy drinker. He will have 4 years sober in Feb.
Recently the young niece of XRAH had her young child taken away from her and my in laws have been raising her. They are older and in poor health and didn't have anything for her so I have been sending packages when I can. Just clothes toys etc...and some presents at Christmas time for her. I admire them for taking it all on. The niece and I are in contact..she has asked for money and I had to turn her down since she was using it for drugs etc. but recently she has agreed to go into rehab which is awesome...she want to clean up and get her daughter back.
She told me that when her uncle (my XRAH) heard she was going into rehab he sent her a message and encouraged her and told her that he had to give up a lot for his sobriety including his wife (me) and his son but it was worth it and what he had to do to stay sober.
I don't understand this....it feels like he is still blaming me for his drinking. He did that in the beginning after I first caught him with this woman. He said he was not leaving for her he was leaving because his sobriety was more important and he had to be selfish. (although he never spoke of divorce until he met her..he actually was telling everyone he couldn't believe what he had put us through and was so thankful that his family was still around and wanted him and that was all he needed)
Why would anyone need to leave their children to stay sober?? That part I will never understand...leaving me, I guess that is a choice he made but actually saying he had to leave his son, and for that matter the boys he raised as his own for 17 years, I don't understand...
can anyone shed some light on this for me?
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i am not an A, but based on what you wrote this seems pretty clear (from outsiders perspective).
your exah is blaming you for everything, because he cannot face himself and take responsibility. blaming you is easier than looking inwards and acknowledging that he drank because he is an A and he cheated because he is a cheat. you are not those things, he is and he feels the need to build his own ego by putting you down. (maybe jealously, resentment?)
he is with a heavy drinker because he can feel superior to her. she feeds his ego. she doesn't challenge him the way you did. your kids are an extension of you, so he got rid of them too. her kids...etc...
why does he seem to support the niece and insult you? he can be the hero to the niece and passive aggressively diss you. two birds with one stone. he obviously knows you have been nice to her and her kid. he wants to be the nice supportive one (aka hero, have his ego fed), not you.
just from my outsiders view, (and maybe i am totally wrong) he is threatened by you and competitive with you. don't know why. he has issues below the surface.
your exah is blaming you for everything, because he cannot face himself and take responsibility. blaming you is easier than looking inwards and acknowledging that he drank because he is an A and he cheated because he is a cheat. you are not those things, he is and he feels the need to build his own ego by putting you down. (maybe jealously, resentment?)
he is with a heavy drinker because he can feel superior to her. she feeds his ego. she doesn't challenge him the way you did. your kids are an extension of you, so he got rid of them too. her kids...etc...
why does he seem to support the niece and insult you? he can be the hero to the niece and passive aggressively diss you. two birds with one stone. he obviously knows you have been nice to her and her kid. he wants to be the nice supportive one (aka hero, have his ego fed), not you.
just from my outsiders view, (and maybe i am totally wrong) he is threatened by you and competitive with you. don't know why. he has issues below the surface.
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[edit -- sorry, you asked for As. I R Not. This is just what I learned from Open AA Meetings while taking my kids to Alateen.]
Sure. Sort of covered in the opening of Chapter 5, How It Works, AA Big Book.
Big Book On Line - Table of Contents
Word that shows up an awful lot . . . .
Honesty, Rigorous Honesty, Honesty.
Some A's can get it, some cannot.
Yours (X, now -- ps, maybe put THAT on your gratitude list) does not sound like he has it.
Honesty, Rigorous Honesty, Honesty.
=============
HOW IT WORKS
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our directions. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a way of life which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
Sure. Sort of covered in the opening of Chapter 5, How It Works, AA Big Book.
Big Book On Line - Table of Contents
Word that shows up an awful lot . . . .
Honesty, Rigorous Honesty, Honesty.
Some A's can get it, some cannot.
Yours (X, now -- ps, maybe put THAT on your gratitude list) does not sound like he has it.
Honesty, Rigorous Honesty, Honesty.
=============
HOW IT WORKS
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our directions. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a way of life which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
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I think it is the just the spin he either tells others / or tells others and believes himself to make what he did more palatable to himself and his audience.
I know it hurts to hear such a thing but you know the truth and at some level so does he.
I would let it fall away from your heart as fast as possible.
Being really, really honest about the harm I caused when drinking was one of the hardest things about quitting.
I'm not sure everyone really gets through that part as deeply or as in depth as they perhaps need to. They sort of let it scab and scar over.
Just my take anyway formy--I didn't do anything as serious as what he did and continues to do by ignoring his children so perhaps I just don't get how tough it is to face such a thing.
I know it hurts to hear such a thing but you know the truth and at some level so does he.
I would let it fall away from your heart as fast as possible.
Being really, really honest about the harm I caused when drinking was one of the hardest things about quitting.
I'm not sure everyone really gets through that part as deeply or as in depth as they perhaps need to. They sort of let it scab and scar over.
Just my take anyway formy--I didn't do anything as serious as what he did and continues to do by ignoring his children so perhaps I just don't get how tough it is to face such a thing.
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formyboys---the light that I would shine on it says this: He is a trash-talking dry drunk. (if he is even sober?).
It is sad..very sad that he has ignored the boys. I know it hurts you.
You have no control over what he has done or what he will do.
I am hoping for you to complete your grieving so that your past does not destroy the future for you and your boys.
I also think it is wonderful that you have reached out for the young niece.
dandylion
It is sad..very sad that he has ignored the boys. I know it hurts you.
You have no control over what he has done or what he will do.
I am hoping for you to complete your grieving so that your past does not destroy the future for you and your boys.
I also think it is wonderful that you have reached out for the young niece.
dandylion
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I feel like Im coming to a place where I can look at things with a lot more clarity..Im not as core wrenching hurt as I was and am starting to see a glimmer of anger...LOL..I know probably not seeing as clearly through anger but a lot clearer then I was...
Im trying to see how I contributed to the implosion on our marriage, which obviously takes two...but I get stuck on this...the complete abandonment of kids. I may have been a difficult person to live with but I have never done anything that I knew would intentionally hurt my kids, any kids for that matter.
I thought maybe my pain was keeping me from seeing a side of this that was necessary...I truly want to understand my history so it is not repeated. My kids have been through so much. I don't want to be the cause of anymore pain to them.
jesus,...the shear agony an A must live with..to have to do what he has done to avoid dealing with it. I cannot even imagine. The man I knew will not be able to live with it. He may be able to shove it under a rug while his ego is getting stroked by this woman but as soon as it falls apart...and I have no doubt that it will...it may be years, he is able to be really complacent and just stay where he is at, but there is going to be a day where it all hits him. Or maybe he really is not the man I knew and it never will. Im am shocked as I sit here and am able to say....that is not my problem.
Im trying to see how I contributed to the implosion on our marriage, which obviously takes two...but I get stuck on this...the complete abandonment of kids. I may have been a difficult person to live with but I have never done anything that I knew would intentionally hurt my kids, any kids for that matter.
I thought maybe my pain was keeping me from seeing a side of this that was necessary...I truly want to understand my history so it is not repeated. My kids have been through so much. I don't want to be the cause of anymore pain to them.
jesus,...the shear agony an A must live with..to have to do what he has done to avoid dealing with it. I cannot even imagine. The man I knew will not be able to live with it. He may be able to shove it under a rug while his ego is getting stroked by this woman but as soon as it falls apart...and I have no doubt that it will...it may be years, he is able to be really complacent and just stay where he is at, but there is going to be a day where it all hits him. Or maybe he really is not the man I knew and it never will. Im am shocked as I sit here and am able to say....that is not my problem.
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Originally Posted by dandylion 
formyboys---the light that I would shine on it says this: He is a trash-talking dry drunk. (if he is even sober?).
It is sad..very sad that he has ignored the boys. I know it hurts you.
You have no control over what he has done or what he will do.
I am hoping for you to complete your grieving so that your past does not destroy the future for you and your boys.
I also think it is wonderful that you have reached out for the young niece.
dandylion
It is sad..very sad that he has ignored the boys. I know it hurts you.
You have no control over what he has done or what he will do.
I am hoping for you to complete your grieving so that your past does not destroy the future for you and your boys.
I also think it is wonderful that you have reached out for the young niece.
dandylion
*****sorry--I just realized that you asked for alcoholics---I'm not--but I sure have suffered from trash-talk! By the way---my children's father--my ex-Husband---more or less did the same thing to our children. He is a total narcissist (not alcoholic)---but, that can be just as bad. I had to remove that man from my thoughts and give him as little of my mental time as possible. Fortunately, they were able to have the love and attention from a wonderful step-father.
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I have to say I had something similiar happen to me with my first sons father. This is why your post caught my eye. First I want to say YOU are a very strong woman and good mother to stay as long as you did. I lasted 4 years before I left my husband..he sobered up for his son and I...started back up heavy and mean...stopped himself 4 months later..apologized, pleaded for me to come back..i came back...4 weeks later he cheated with an older woman...told my son and myself that I made him drink and do drugs etc..He also made his son who at the time was 8 years old that he needs to be alone to stay sober and he will come back for him....He is still with older woman and now doing major drugs and drinking severely. I did therapy for years cuz thought my fault...blamed myself..I am now remarried 6 years and he is great stepfather as well as father to our 6 year old we have together...
back to you...The fact that he is with a drinker, heavy drinker at that, he is lost. He is using you guys for his gain. I am only saying this because during my years of dealing I did get words out of my ex..we did group therapy and he admitted (only once, but sober and honest) that when he looked at us he connected it to his past. instead of taking us with him in his future he left his wife and child out believing we would bring him down. He said he harbored to much guilt and can barely stand to be around us. Not because he despised us,,but despised himself, and he knew he would start using again and he thinks subconciously pushed us out and cheated to make it easy for him to just leave and be free. That was the one and only time I know he was honest..
He could be blaming you, but it sounds like he is having problem looking at his past..maybe his own guilt is to strong when he looks at you guys. I just thought I could tell you my situation and that might shed light. For an A to put the blame on his family and you just means that he did not complete the twelve steps properly. He may have acted like it, but deep in his mind he has not forgiven himself so he needs to still put blame on someone else. Even if he accepted his wrongdoing in his past. The fact that he can say such strong and degrading theories about his family and sobriety just shows how he is not GETTING IT. He may never if this carries on. You sound like an amazing woman and that is nice that you help out the in-laws with your XRAH niece. He has selfish intentions and seems like he is stuck in a selfish state of mind. I am sorry and stay strong.
IT WAS NEVER YOU NOR YOUR FAMILY...Don't make the choice I did to deal and end up here on Sober recovery for myself years later.
Good luck beautiful momma
back to you...The fact that he is with a drinker, heavy drinker at that, he is lost. He is using you guys for his gain. I am only saying this because during my years of dealing I did get words out of my ex..we did group therapy and he admitted (only once, but sober and honest) that when he looked at us he connected it to his past. instead of taking us with him in his future he left his wife and child out believing we would bring him down. He said he harbored to much guilt and can barely stand to be around us. Not because he despised us,,but despised himself, and he knew he would start using again and he thinks subconciously pushed us out and cheated to make it easy for him to just leave and be free. That was the one and only time I know he was honest..
He could be blaming you, but it sounds like he is having problem looking at his past..maybe his own guilt is to strong when he looks at you guys. I just thought I could tell you my situation and that might shed light. For an A to put the blame on his family and you just means that he did not complete the twelve steps properly. He may have acted like it, but deep in his mind he has not forgiven himself so he needs to still put blame on someone else. Even if he accepted his wrongdoing in his past. The fact that he can say such strong and degrading theories about his family and sobriety just shows how he is not GETTING IT. He may never if this carries on. You sound like an amazing woman and that is nice that you help out the in-laws with your XRAH niece. He has selfish intentions and seems like he is stuck in a selfish state of mind. I am sorry and stay strong.
IT WAS NEVER YOU NOR YOUR FAMILY...Don't make the choice I did to deal and end up here on Sober recovery for myself years later.
Good luck beautiful momma
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He is a tool. Recovery is about growing up and taking responsibility among other thing, not abandoning your children. Not sure if he still drinking or not but he is definitely not recovering.
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I learned a great term from reading your forums: quacking. From context, it seems to mean the crap that flies out of an alcoholics mouth when we are trying to justify our drinking or bad behavior.
Recovery is all about facing our crap and doing what we can to make it right. I'm not a very good black and white thinker, but I can't think of a single situation where abandoning your own kid is acceptable in recovery. Taking time away to help yourself maybe, but noteave your family for another woman and hers. That is straight up abandonment and he scarred your son.
Whether your ex is sober or drinking, dude quacks like a duck.
Recovery is all about facing our crap and doing what we can to make it right. I'm not a very good black and white thinker, but I can't think of a single situation where abandoning your own kid is acceptable in recovery. Taking time away to help yourself maybe, but noteave your family for another woman and hers. That is straight up abandonment and he scarred your son.
Whether your ex is sober or drinking, dude quacks like a duck.
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As a side note...Im not out to be right or be told Im the "great mom" and hes the douche bag Dad. I want to learn from this experience in my life, like I never have before. Ive gone through my life telling myself that "they" are the one screwed up and Im a good person and haven't done a thing wrong.
Lets be real...Im the one common thread in my kids lives and I have 2 yes count them 2 exs who have walked out on their kids and have been addicts. obviously Im not perfect and honestly Im tired...tired of being the martyr. Its time to grow up and be accountable and I want to understand this whole situation so I can do that.
Lets be real...Im the one common thread in my kids lives and I have 2 yes count them 2 exs who have walked out on their kids and have been addicts. obviously Im not perfect and honestly Im tired...tired of being the martyr. Its time to grow up and be accountable and I want to understand this whole situation so I can do that.
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formyboys, I'm totally with you. For why they do what they do, I do agree with kflee. I was married twice also. My first left, tried contact I guess for a little while like 3 visits when she was about 2 years old. My second, the kids were older and out of the house. He kept in touch with them. Actually it seemed like he was trying to make me out to be a psycho, and that it was all my fault.
I also want to know why? Was it because I am a terrible picker? I tried to be agreeable, realizing a new relationship, need to make compromises. I tried to be understanding. I tried to say what I wanted and needed. I tried not to be a doormat, but I became that.
I was strong and self reliant before either of these relationships. I knew my family was dysfunctional, and I was trying to do things right. I had that people pleaser thing in me, even though I was a rebel growing up. I wanted my life to be different.
I would love to hear the responses here.
I also want to know why? Was it because I am a terrible picker? I tried to be agreeable, realizing a new relationship, need to make compromises. I tried to be understanding. I tried to say what I wanted and needed. I tried not to be a doormat, but I became that.
I was strong and self reliant before either of these relationships. I knew my family was dysfunctional, and I was trying to do things right. I had that people pleaser thing in me, even though I was a rebel growing up. I wanted my life to be different.
I would love to hear the responses here.
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formyboys----self-examination is good for ALL of us....and it takes courage to look honestly at ourselves. Just don't beat-up on yourself in the process. Yeah...I know...it's a fine line...LOL.
Welcome to the club...LOl
dandylion
Welcome to the club...LOl
dandylion
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Originally Posted by formyboys
As a side note...Im not out to be right or be told Im the "great mom" and hes the douche bag Dad. I want to learn from this experience in my life, like I never have before. Ive gone through my life telling myself that "they" are the one screwed up and Im a good person and haven't done a thing wrong.
Lets be real...Im the one common thread in my kids lives and I have 2 yes count them 2 exs who have walked out on their kids and have been addicts. obviously Im not perfect and honestly Im tired...tired of being the martyr. Its time to grow up and be accountable and I want to understand this whole situation so I can do that.
Lets be real...Im the one common thread in my kids lives and I have 2 yes count them 2 exs who have walked out on their kids and have been addicts. obviously Im not perfect and honestly Im tired...tired of being the martyr. Its time to grow up and be accountable and I want to understand this whole situation so I can do that.
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