giliji

I made sure they didn't see me looking for bottles. I think he was spreading out the liter over the day, but I'm not sure. Although I can see how they noticed when he was 'different'

I don't think he has had anything, or much, to drink since I asked him about it and he refused to talk to me about it. I'm waiting though. I don't think he can go much longer. He does have a very high tolerance. I was reading in 'Under the Influence' that someone with a high tolerance can drink alot and still appear 'normal'. So he may have been drinking. I don't know and I'm getting to the point where I don't care. As long as he doesn't affect my kids, it's his problem. I can't handle stressing about it anymore.

JustAGirl1971

Giliji, there wasn't abuse in my home either. I don't ever remember feeling unloved. They didn't physically abuse me... rarely even spanked me. No name calling or emotional abuse. My father just worked a lot (workaholic) and drank a lot of beer (alcoholic.) Dad was a happy or melancholy drunk. Never an angry drunk that I saw. My mother is a fierce mother bear. She will do anything (& everything) for her children. I always knew that if push came to shove, my mother would give her life for mine. But, the fact remains that I was affected, we just didn't recognize it when it was happening.

I repeated the cycle by marrying an alcoholic son of an alcoholic. AH repeated the cycle by marrying a crazy codependent (me.) Lots of alcoholism and codependency on both sides of our families. I can only hope that by getting help now, my children will choose differently. They're in counseling (as am I.) I'm also in al-anon and the kids are starting Celebrate Recovering (teen version) next week. I so hope they choose more wisely than AH & I chose.

JustAGirl1971

My children never saw me count (or look for) bottles either. But, then, I never saw DD counting either even though she was.

giliji

In what way were you affected? I want to look for any signs. I am also a fierce momma bear and my kids know it.

giliji

Good point justagirl. Another reason for me to quit looking for bottles. Thank you.

JustAGirl1971

As gently as possible, I'm going to suggest that you're already seeing the signs, just not acknowledging them as such. Re-read what you've written about your children.

As for my laundry list:

1. I fear failure to the extreme that I frequently won't even try in order to avoid failing.
2. I seek affirmation and approval from everyone, including people whose opinion should not matter to me.
3. I take on other people's feelings - If AH is sad, I'm sad.
4. I think it's my job to "fix" other people. Instead of just listening and being supportive, I try to find solutions for their problems. Not my job!
5. I have difficulty making choices and will frequently avoid doing so.
6. I put other people's needs and wants above my own. For example, if it's my b-day and I want to do X to celebrate, I will do Y instead if that's what someone else wants.
7. I'm a control freak. I don't even realize I'm doing it! I'll do something for someone (that they can/should do for themselves) because I think it's what they want. They usually don't appreciate it because they didn't even WANT it, I just thought it was what they needed.

I could go on and on. It's a fairly standard list of codependent traits. I had them before I married AH because I learned them growing up, just not to the extreme that I do now (at 42.)

SoaringSpirits

I could have written your post. I looked for bottles, too. I can count the number of times on 1 hand that my xah appeared classic 'drunk.' Mostly it was hidden, he was a master of that, and he just seemed medicated and withdrawn from me and the kids. I didn't even know the full extent of his alcoholism until a full 18 months after I asked him to leave our home.

I think the lowest point of my bottle searching was that I found a flask of vodka in our tool shed. I checked it daily and it went down, then up. Refilled. I was so angry. So I kept filling it up with --- ready for this --- my own urine. Yes, my xah was drinking urine and never noticed.

Finally I realized that the bottle hunting was in part because I *still* didn't really trust my own screaming inner voice that there really was a problem with booze. SR and Al Anon helped me get to that point where I could really admit there was a problem, and that I was powerless over it (step 1).

Almost three years later, when I drop the kids off a xah's condo, I still fight the urge to look in his recycling bin. Xah is still in denial, still says there's no alcohol problem, but I know if I looked in that bin, there would be empty vodka bottles. And what good would that do me, really?

Hugs. You are not alone.

hopeful4

I can see my little 8 year old turning into a little codependent. It breaks my heart. One more GREAT reason for me to move away from a toxic relationship. I do not want my DD to pick a man with any addiciton or to have codependent traits.

Hugs.

giliji

I'm pretty sure this is exactly why I was looking for bottles. I still have to fight the urge. Sometimes I give in and look in his usual spot. After I tried to talk to him again about it, the bottles disappeared and I don't think he's had much, if anything, to drink. Although I also think he's learned what is limit is that won't show outwardly.

hopeful4

Don't assume because you don't see the bottles they are not just hidden somewhere else. They are clever and find new spots. Not trying to be negative, just a very realistic person. It amazes me that you cannot tell? I can tell when my AH has had even 1 drink. He holds his hands in a certain way and is much more talkative. That being said, we have been together for a very long time.

Good Luck! I know it is hard. I learned a long time ago to always trust my gut feeling on this. It has not been wrong, not even one time.

hugs.

honeypig

I have never been able to tell when my A has been drinking, either, except for when he accidentally "overshot" w/his drinking, and we are married for nearly 17 years and together for 19. There are definitely others who have posted here and have the same situation. One of the hardest things for me has been realizing the extent of the deception, as I felt both stupid and unobservant. I almost felt at fault, in some weird way, b/c I hadn't been able to tell...like if I had been able to, I could have somehow changed the course of things or some similar crazy codependent idea.

Coming to SR helped with that, as I heard from others who had A's who were incredibly good at hiding their drunkenness. I stopped feeling as if I was a fool for not noticing something that was being hidden so very, very skillfully.

giliji, I don't find it difficult to believe AT ALL that you can't tell if he's been drinking. I hope you don't fall into the same hole I did and beat yourself up as stupid b/c you didn't notice then and still can't tell now. Those of us who have this type of A may be in the minority, but we are not alone.

m1k3

This!!

As an ACOA when I was growing up I knew something was wrong. In the beginning I didn't pick it up from my AH, I picked it up from my codie Mom.

His drinking is having an effect on you, and the children. Your concern about his drinking is having an effect on your children.

I not saying leave or not. I just would like you to know that they know something is wrong.

Your friend,

hopeful4

I want to clarify. In no way do I see this as your fault for not being able to tell. I can so clearly tell that it surprises me is all. I am truly sorry if it came across that way as I do not see drinking or the effects of it as anyone's fault but the alcoholic themselves. Sometimes I wish I could not always tell, although it is critical for my children to always know.

I am sorry for any confusion and sorry you are going through this.

NYCDoglvr

You should be aware that alcoholism is a progressive disease and no one can alter that.
While you can fix things with a band aid now, that won't last. It's a good idea to go to Alanon, where there's enormous help.

giliji

Because I can't tell most of the time, I wonder if he really is drinking. My gut tells me he is. I am going to my 3rd Al-Anon meeting Thursday. I am exhausted with all the conflicting emotions. I know my kids can pick up vibes from me, but they may not know it's from the alcoholism issues. I have BPD and they are very familiar with mom not always being on an even keel. Make sense? The other day I was crying and one of my kids asked why. I simply answered "you know me, I just cry sometimes" She completely accepted that.

I am really having a hard time with all of this. We just had our 29th anniversary. In my head I know I didn't cause his A, but in my heart I feel I did. I made some very bad life choices a few years ago.

Woodman123

One thing I'll say about the never ending search for bottles is that it grounds me. Yes, I totally agree that it is unusual, paranoid, and potentially destructive behavior (for me). But, ironically, it's the one thing that has kept me sane about the state of my wife's disease. I am constantly torn between my underlying distrust of her (carefully nurtured by her years of alcohol abuse and cover-up) and my desperate desire to believe her again. Sometimes it's obvious when she has been drinking- other times not so much. And when she's telling me with all the sincerity she can muster that she's beating the disease, she's doing OK, she's not drinking (quack, quack, quack), my heart bleeds to believe her. And I WOULD eventually fall into that trap and allow myself to look the other way or deny my suspicions- which just drives me insane because I get into a circuitous loop of seeing her behavior, listening to her excuse and then believing her, but not my gut. Then I'm eventually shown my gut was right and my hurt and anger deepens. So, finding the bottles along the way keep me grounded to the reality and allows me to see a clearer and more accurate picture of things. Just my two cents... but i'm still new to this and probably have a long way to go.

hopeful4

You do realize you do not have to make any decisions RIGHT NOW. This is no marathon. Time will tell if he is drinking or not. I think the important thing is to look at his behavior as a whole. Eventually if he is drinking it will affect your children and they will realize what is going on. Believe me, that will change what you are willing to tolerate or not tolerate.
For me,there is/was nothing horrible like seeing my children upset because of daddys addictions. Nothing quite like the resentment that builds in a marriage either. If you can work on detatchment you will do so much for you and your kids both. They will see you actually living your own life, not so caught up in counting and worry. They will also be able to demonstrate that healthier behavior as a reaction from learning it from you.

He has to live with his own decisions. One way or another, the truth has a way of coming out of the closet. You can choose to be miserable and let the worry eat you up or you can work on learning to detatch and move on with your life in a stable and positive way.

Hugs. It's so hard. I don't say any of this in a callous way because I do know how hard it really is. For me, the fear of the future was very powerful. I have learned to live in the moment much better now. Whatever happens I will deal with it as it comes in the healthiest manner I know how.

God Bless.

unsureoffuture

Giliji,

I was exactly where you are one year ago. I came on this message board wanting validation that I wasn''t crazy, it wasnt all in my head and I wasn't making a mountain out of a molehill. I too was counting bottles, looking for hiding places, studying him trying to figure out if he was drinking or not. My ADH is a closet or "garage" drinker and is also not argumentative, abusive, angry in any which way and the kids adore him. He is not the "falling down angry drunk" everyone pictures when they hear "alcoholic". In fact to my knowledge he has never once fallen. But.. the amount of bottles bothered me and so did a lot of other things when I started to really look back and examine the situation. He didnt eat dinner with us (buzz kill), he wouldnt go to restaurants that didn't serve alcohol, he skipped out or left early on the kids activities (to go or stay home and drink), I drove everywhere. He was present but not "involved" in our lives like other dads/husbands etc etc etc. Once I started reading and learning more about alcoholism, it all started making more and more sense.

I also figured out I was just as sick. I was codependent and I needed to check, monitor etc to control the situation. I somehow got enmeshed in the world of alcoholism and it plays mind games on you. I learned it really doesn't matter if he's had one or 100 drinks, if it bothers me, it bothers me. He also refuses to talk about it or admit there is a problem. Before, I could never tell if he had been drinking, now I can tell immediately. There are subtle changes, furrowed brow, slower responses, slightly slurred speech. I stopped counting because it makes no difference. Drinking everyday is not normal, having an eye opener every weekend morning is not normal, going through bottle after bottle every few days is not normal. Normal people do not hide their alcohol. I have young kids too. I used to think it didn't affect them but now I see it has. My 8 year-old is becoming a little codependent herself. I see it in her actions and her statements. She is very very protective of her father. I didn't think she even noticed her dad drinking since the changes are so subtle but after a talk with her last week, she has. They are so much more perceptive than we give them credit for. She has just been diagnosed with generalized anxiety and I am starting to see behavior outbursts in my 5 year-old. I thought I was protecting them from it, that they were oblivious to it, but now I think differently.

Educate yourself, read this board, join Al-anon. They even have online and facebook meetings. You don't have to leave him or do anything differently if you don't want to. The more you help your self, the better able you are to help him. The only person you really can change is yourself. Best of luck, you are not alone.

giliji

I wasn't going to but I checked again for this reason. However I didn't find any bottles. That doesn't mean anything to me.

Hopeful4, this really helps. I feel like I'm going crazy in my head trying to figure things out and what to do.

Unsureoffuture, thank you for you input. It's VERY helpful to me. I am going to my 3rd Al-Anon meeting on Thursday. There's another Friday night and I may go to it. Today is a good day for me to read your post. I have been crying most of the day. It's my 50th birthday and I feel the total opposite of how I thought I would feel. He turned 50 in Aug. I thought the future was bright and happy. Now I'm clueless.

unsureoffuture

Happy Birthday Giliji!! I'm sorry its not the one you were hoping for.

The best advise is to take a deep breath. Step back for a second. You don't need to decide everything right now. Take it one day at at time. Take time to focus on yourself and figure out what is wrong in your life and what needs of yours aren't being met. Find out what you need to make yourself happy and what has been missing. Alcoholism's toxic effects on the family have a way of weaving into your everyday life so much that it's hard to see where things went wrong or even how you have been affected until you take a step back. What has happened has already happened and you can't change it. The same as what is meant to happen will happen and we cant change it. Sometimes we just have to let go and let our HP (higher power) guide us. This has worked for me and I can say after a year things are so much more clear for me now. Detach, set boundaries. Give yourself room to heal and get stronger then you will be better able to do what you need to do next (fix your relationship or leave). None of us ever thought we would be here, but we are. Hang in there.