JustBarely

My RAH has been sober for only 5 weeks. I'm understanding more and more why a lot of marriages break up during this time. I actually told him last night that I'm done and that I want a divorce. The last thing he said to me was that if we broke up, he wouldn't and couldn't stay sober.
I'm tired of fighting. I know that he's trying to find his footing and who he is without alcohol, but he is driving me absolutely crazy. He can't sit still. He's always fidgeting and trying to come up with something that needs to be done, and then he gets mad at me when I don't help him come up with something; actually he gets mad over everything. I was originally upset that he keeps on trying to change things that he wanted no part of when he was drinking, and now he has the attitude of entitlement…like I owe him something for quitting drinking. He started trying to play this card when I asked him to try to relax a little and that maybe he needed to go to the Dr. to get something to settle him down along with the possibility of an antidepressant. I didn't view this as an insult since I've been on both for years, but apparently he did. He said that maybe I needed to start changing myself now to keep up with him; that AA is all about change and that WE (meaning ME) need to recognize this. Today it was an argument about the hours I sleep. I've kept the same hours our entire relationship, and now they are suddenly wrong because he has sober vision. He keeps saying that he quit drinking for me and the kids. I did give him the ultimatum of me and the kids or alcohol, however, I didn't expect to be at fault for trying to help him realize that he had a problem and how it was affecting all of us, not just him. Now that he realized that there was a problem by going to AA, now it's almost like he thinks he knows all the answers now and that he is somehow superior to me. He's been to 3 meetings, so I hardly think this makes him an expert.
Everyone owes him something, most of all me. I've put up with his drunkenness for 8 years, now I need to change? How does that work? I have a firm policy concerning someone thinking or expecting me to change. If you don't like me the way I am, then don't let the door hit you in the butt on your way out. I am uncompromising this way. I am who I am, and you either love me the way I am or your don't and you can leave. I accepted him and his alcohol. I accepted his drunken family and all of their interfering in our relationship. I accepted him for all of his personality flaws. In a sense, I took him the way he was and loved him as a whole. Am I wrong to expect the same? I don't think I owe him anything, if anything, he owes me. I don't expect it, obviously, but I don't understand his reasoning now for expecting me to adjust solely to him.
That's another thing. he has always been selfish by nature…one of those personality flaws I was talking about…but he is even more so now. Everything is supposed to revolve around him. While I understand that he needs to concentrate on himself to be successful, he has a wife and 2 very young children to think about too. All of this has affected us negatively too.
I'm ready to be done. I want to throw in the towel. I can't do anything right, and I'm sick and tired of feeling bad about myself because of it. Ideas/suggestions?
As a side note, however, I'm attending my first Alanon meeting tomorrow night. We'll see how it goes. Thanks in advance, guys.

CarryOn

Welcome to anger! AlAnon and counseling are great. You can post/read here, journal, talk to a trusted friend, etc. Get your feelings out and validated if possible. Early sobriety is hard - for the A and their loved ones.

A couple of slogans that really helped me during that period were "more will be revealed" and "don't just do something, sit there". I've heard a number of posters say that when they made the "final" decision about their relationship with their A it was a calm decision - not done in haste or anger.

I know you may not want to hear this right now, but you may need to make some changes. When I hit my bottom, both my counselor & my priest told me that my marriage - as I knew it - was dead, gone, etc. I had made decisions and behaved in ways that contributed to the dysfunction in my marriage & the alcoholic merry-go-round. Should our marriage continue, the way we related to one another would need to change. As I've learned, the only thing I can change is me. I like myself more now...and that is awesome.

Let it out...it's a good thing! Keep posting here, share as much as you want, and get to a meeting (or six!)

JustBarely

Thanks, CarryOn.
I know that I'm not perfect. God knows that there are things about myself that I need to change. I have no delusions of grandure. I know that I've enabled him, made excuses for him, etc. Honestly the truth is that I have no idea how to relate or deal with the new him. Without him drinking, I have no idea who he is. He was an A before I met him, so, essentially, he is a completely different person then the one I married. I have so many questions, the main one being if we can survive this. I love him, but we all know that sometimes that isn't enough. I do agree that our marriage, as I knew it, is dead. What's the best way to deal with it though? What's best for my kids, me and him? If it's not going to work anyway, should I just cut my losses now and start over?
I know these are questions that only I can can answer. The truth is that I don't know if I have it in me to start over with him. My co-dependent is telling me to stay because it has to get better, my brain is telling me to high-tail it out of here, and my heart is telling me both...stay because you love him AND leave because I'm going to get hurt.
I just feel like I'm stuck in limbo. I don't think I OWE him anything, but I do owe it to myself to explore ways that I need to change to be happy for ME. If we can change together, that's wonderful, but if not I'd rather just get on with things. I'm so frustrated with this whole process.

OnawaMiniya

He said that maybe I needed to start changing myself now to keep up with him; that AA is all about change and that WE (meaning ME) need to recognize this.

Now that he realized that there was a problem by going to AA, now it's almost like he thinks he knows all the answers now and that he is somehow superior to me. He's been to 3 meetings, so I hardly think this makes him an expert.

Everyone owes him something, most of all me. I've put up with his drunkenness for 8 years, now I need to change? How does that work?

I think that in general, alcoholics are selfish and use alcohol to cope with life, rather than deal with reality. When alcohol is removed, you are left with someone still selfish who can't deal with reality. Insecure, without alcohol to protect them, they attempt to make themselves feel better by clinging to something to believe/believe in, and get preachy and adopt a holier than thou attitude.

People who feel secure and confident don't feel the need to insist that they are superior. Immature, selfish people who can't cope with life aren't the types to be introspective.

They need to work on the reasons they used drinking to cope, work on their personality, their fears, etc.

It's irritating. Personally, my sympathy for the difficulty of quitting runs out fast. I have a very hard time having and maintaining empathy for people who choose to allow their pain to be used to hurt others on a consistent basis, to avoid the pain of looking at themselves.

I don't really suppose anything I've said is helpful in dealing with them. I'm sorry. I wish I had better advice for that end. They may never change. If they do, it will take a while. I suppose you just need to decide when you have had enough, what your limit is. You don't owe him anything simply because he's quitting...it also irritates me to think someone needs a reward for doing what they should be doing to begin with, while being selfish even!

What I said above is a generalization and of course doesn't apply to every single alcoholic.

Good luck to you Hon.

dandylion

Just barely---of course, go to alanon as planned--to get support for yourself for what you and the kids are going through!!! excellent move. Going to an experienced counselor who has hands-on experience with addiction in marriage to get a handle on things might help enormously--at l east, a couple of appointments.

I think that detachment in this first year is the handiest tool for allowing you the space--the mental space--to sort things out. Alanon and SR can help you with the concept of detachment.

If you think some geographic distance (which is a form of detachment) would help you, right now---how about talking to a lawyer to see what a temporary separation (or even permanent??) would entail. You would feel less "trapped" if you felt that there were options, I imagine.

dandylion

Hammer

Oh. Hell. Yes. It. Does.

hahahahaha



And I am just joking, of course.

[oh hell no I am not]



=============

ok that was fun. At least for me.

Back to the top.

In the hurricane, and wondering which way is to shore?

Aint no shore, it was washed out to sea, as well.

[Upfront -- THIS next part is NOT Alanon. Sort of annoys me that they (we) are not this straight forward. Instead it is usually some zen-ish mumbo jumbo about "more will revealed," or "when the cake is baked you may eat," etc.]

Real Deal --

His brain has been pickling for YEARS. 5 weeks dry time is JUST THE START. The crazy can on for months (and months). Figured someone needed to be straight up and tell you that.

Now for you. Ever see poop-throwing monkeys at the zoo? They poop in their hand/paw (whatever they call them), and then throw it at the folks who walk by -- or other monkeys.

For our purposes, consider your newly drying A is a poop throwing monkey. Even the strongest armed monkey has some limit to his range of how far he can throw his poop. Observe how far your monkey can throw his poop and stay outside that range.

That is sort of what we call "Detachment." Get you, the kids, physically and emotionally outside of his poop throwing range. Do the Alanon program and learn some of the poop avoidance and mitigation methods. After a few months, if the A is going to make it, the poop throwing greatly reduces as they learn better ways to behave.

Yes, they really are this stupid. Go back and read OnawaMiniya's post on that.

But that is no reason to take his crap.

hopeful4

This is why I don't think it is wise to live together while someone is in recovery, or at least as Mr. Hammer said....you have to learn to detatch so you can live YOUR life while he figures this out for him. He has to work this program. He has to figure out who he is under the addiction. He needs to prove himself over a course of a long amount of time. He needs a sponsor...and that is not you.

This is just my opinion and what I wish I had done for myself. I think if a person can find sobriety and stay sober for a long (and I mean a year plus) amount of time then you can see who you truly are and who they truly are and do you even want to pursue it at that time.

You need to work on you. Alanon or Celebrate Recovery is a great idea for you. The right group will help you with this so much. You will hear this alot. You did not cause it, you cannot control it, you cannot cure it.

Gentle Hugs.

iSPAZ

@Hammer
Too funny about the poop throwing Monkeys. My experience has been similar. Detachment was very tough for me but I found the circus is much easier to watch from a distance than being in the ring. The monkeys made my day. Thank you!!

Refiner

My $0.02.

lillamy

Did he go to rehab? Is he working a program? Three AA meetings doesn't count as working a program; it counts as three AA meetings.

If he's putting it on YOU that YOU are responsible for his sobriety, then he's got his brain on backwards here. He's doing it for YOU and the kids. He can't and won't do it if you don't do (x, y, z). Know what that reminds me of? A kid who says "OK Mom, I WILL clean my room, but only if you take me to get ice cream"

Sobriety doesn't work that way. You want to get sober, you get sober. End of story. You don't get sober to show someone you can or because someone pushed you.

OnawaMiniya

Heh heh heh...that's funny.

My initial reaction was laughter, then a brief moment of thinking how sad it actually is that this is a good comparison to how an adult human being behaves...

Oy.

Recovering2

If his "recovery" has consisted of 3 AA meetings in 5 weeks....that is NOT recovery. Most programs recommend 90 meetings in 90 days to get the alcoholic submerged into it. So he is "white knuckling" right now....and it's showing by how tense he is. Also if he had real recovery going on, he would have already been told it's not his job to take your inventory. Keep the focus on himself.

Sadly, if he got sober only because of you and/or the kids....it won't last. If he truly wanted sobriety, he would make it happen with or without you. Stay on your side of the street...and detach. Go to AlAnon and start working on YOUR recovery

POAndrea

Totally understand where you are, JustBarely, because I am standing right there beside you. My AH has not had any alcohol in about a month, and he is making me absolutely BATSH!T CRAZY. And angry. And resentful. And that makes me feel guilty, because shouldn't I be all happy-happy-joy-joy he's finally beginning to make some healthy changes? Instead, I just want to throat-punch him for the crap he's made us all eat for years. While I do understand, at least intellectually, how hard this thing he's doing is, I still have a hard time working up enthusiasm for all the praise he clearly needs. (And probably deserves.)
And that change thing? Yep, here too. The first time he brought up "the changes we need to make now that things are different", I was too shocked to process it, much less respond. The second time he said it, I was absolutely, utterly enraged. I mean, how dare he talk about more changes I need to make, considering how every aspect of our home, marriage, family, finances, social life, oh,--everything-- is now completely unrecognizable due to his drinking? I already made too many changes to accommodate his behavior so we can JUST GET BY. While they all may not have been satisfying, these changes worked and allowed the rest of us to function and have something resembling lives. We had to change along with our environment. That being said, he is right to a certain extent: WE have to make changes to reflect the new circumstances, but I don't have to change anything that makes me stronger. (Oh, and are you sure your AH isn't my AH's brother, what with the bedtime thing?) I made a commitment to taking better care of my health, and part of that is going to bed at a decent hour. Just because he can't fall asleep without a beer or ten doesn't mean I have to stay up all night with him and crappy tv. And I am not going to sleep in the old bed with him no matter how sober he is. (If I have a hankering to smell urine and sick-sweat, I'll stroll through the drunk tank on the way home from work, but I certainly don't want to lie down in it or on the mattress he's been soiling for years.)
I remain committed to our marriage, and I'll willingly make shared changes that pertain to and will improve our life together. But I can't undo the past, because some of the changes I personally made were very good for me. I have learned all kinds of nifty home-repair tricks, and I became physically stronger from the tasks I had to pick up. I am better at identifying the need for and setting boundaries, and I am kinder to those who are suffering. Before, I wasn't able to view someone separately from his bad behaviors, and I was vulnerable to defeatist, "apocalyptic" thinking. Now I know people and things aren't all bad, and that awareness has helped me more than just in the home. I hate the difficulties that made these changes necessary, but I am very proud of what I have accomplished, and I'm not willing to backtrack just because AH wants things to go back to the way they were. I'm very resentful he expects me to regress because he has this unrealistic fantasy that the world and people around him stayed exactly the same while he was drunk. We changed. A lot. It was hard, and some of the changes didn't necessarily work out well, but I made adjustments and made things better. I don't want to lose that growth, and I believe I will if "we" make the changes he advocates. The thought just scares the h-e-double hockeysticks out of me: what if I go back to the way things were and he goes back to drinking? I really, really don't want to go back there.

Leana

Background:
My husband is not an alcoholic or addict but he also gets "antsy" and is constantly looking for things to do. Every time this happens I CRINGE. I cringe because every "he" project becomes a "we" project. It doesn't matter if it is as small as cleaning out the fridge or as big as redoing the kitchen. This is typical of our house.

When I do something:
Me (to myself): I need to clean out the fridge.
Husband (later that day): Oh hey you cleaned out the fridge.

When my husband does something:

Husband (to me): This fridge needs to be cleaned out.
Me: Yes, I know but I am in the middle of huge project for work, it will have to wait until tomorrow. I do not have time to do this today.
Husband: I didn't say you had to do it, I'm gonna do it.
Me: CRINGE
Husband: "When did we have "Ham?", "Do you know we have 3 different bottles of brown mustard open? Why?" "Do you think this is still good"? "How do you take these shelves off?" "Can you JUST hold the flashlight while I put this piece back on?" "If you move the fridge out, I'll clean behind it?", "I think this broke!" "Why do you cook so much food, look what is being wasted".
Me: (Several hours later): "Where is the chicken I had defrosting for dinner.
Husband: I threw it out, I thought it was old.
Me: It was frozen- I was defrosting that for dinner
Husband: Well, I tried to ask you but you got ALL huffy, so it looked bad to me and I threw it out.

So...Some of what you are saying is marriage, other stuff is new sobriety, and other stuff is just...well....husbands.

AnvilheadII

oh gosh...too funny...hank is one of the most capable good with his hands kinda guy i know..........unless i come into viewing range. then suddenly the man doesn't know which end of the hammer to use, could use my help for JUST second, etc etc. if he has a project going, I HIDE. i dash past windows, dart thru halls, have to go all ninja in my own house so HE doesn't get a sudden attack of helpless.

back to the topic, 5 weeks is NO time at all. dry drunk, white knuckling OR attending 3 meetings a day. the body is undergoing a long and arduous healing process.....this includes the brain.....alcohol became assimilated, became part of the overall system, now that has been withdrawn and the body has to compensate for the former compensation it underwent for the alcohol.

B vitamins are shot. nutrition is upended. alcohol acts as a depressant, once the fog clears, the body can feel an sense of increased energy simply because the depressant is gone. he may have self medicated to KEEP calm.

and then there's the mind. it's boinking like crazy....like lotto balls the night of the big drawing. synapses are napsing again. maybe not in the right order or the right direction, but they are firing. he's probably feeling "better" in some ways, that is often called the pink cloud. 5 weeks out, feeling good, got this thing NAILED MAN! i'm all that and a bag of chips and i'm going to TELL you that. i'm gonna TALK the TALK and sound all good and hip to this sober scene.

if possible, don't listen. i mean don't take it to heart. not right now. he's still not well. he's changing tho. but i doubt, if he manages to stay quit, that this version you see today will last. take what he says with a grain of salt, don't engage in long winded drawn out convos or downright arguments....acknowledge and move on.

"oh that's interesting"
"i appreciate your sharing your views"
"hmmmm"
"i see"

sorry about the chicken.