DV- Please don't use the children
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
My own background is all abusive. I didn't know what was right or wrong. In the back of my mind I didn't feel right, but I didn't know what it was. First I really needed to get "me" back, because I wasn't there anymore, I was kind of brainwashed. I knew things weren't right, but I didn't know what "right" was. I had to become "me" again, before I could offer the oxygen mask to another.
This was my experience as well. I grew up with an alcoholic father and a paranoid schizophrenic/codependent mother. I had no idea what normal, rational, acceptable behavior looked like or what people meant by a healthy relationship. I just assumed the whole world was effed up and that I was somehow getting what I deserved because it was all I knew.
And I don't mean we shouldn't be honest with newcomers. I have posted my experiences as an ACoA on threads where I saw that it was relevant experience- the ones where someone is rationalizing "staying for the kids" or saying they don't think it affects their kids and sometimes where people will ask how and when does it start to affect the kids. But there's no call for harshness or threats to call CPS, etc. when someone is posting for the first or second time, desperate for that magic answer that everyone here has sought at one time or another.
This was my experience as well. I grew up with an alcoholic father and a paranoid schizophrenic/codependent mother. I had no idea what normal, rational, acceptable behavior looked like or what people meant by a healthy relationship. I just assumed the whole world was effed up and that I was somehow getting what I deserved because it was all I knew.
And I don't mean we shouldn't be honest with newcomers. I have posted my experiences as an ACoA on threads where I saw that it was relevant experience- the ones where someone is rationalizing "staying for the kids" or saying they don't think it affects their kids and sometimes where people will ask how and when does it start to affect the kids. But there's no call for harshness or threats to call CPS, etc. when someone is posting for the first or second time, desperate for that magic answer that everyone here has sought at one time or another.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Originally Posted by amy55 
And you may be right. My own background is all abusive. I didn't know what was right or wrong. In the back of my mind I didn't feel right, but I didn't know what it was. First I really needed to get "me" back, because I wasn't there anymore, I was kind of brainwashed. I knew things weren't right, but I didn't know what "right" was. I had to become "me" again, before I could offer the oxygen mask to another.
I was also into minimizing, justifying, denying. My ex could have killed me, and I would still have been doing the same thing. "Why", there are many reasons that you can't leave. My biggest problem I guess is that you got married, you don't get divorced, you work things out. I was raised that way.
Even though I quit that forum that I was reading then, "verbal abuse", I still to this day go back there, because I knew something was wrong. I just didn't participate in it. Just wished people happy birthdays.
I just really think that first, you need to get the persons trust. If it is an extreme case of abuse, then yell out, get the h3ll out of there. If not help them build there own self esteem, confidence, self awareness, they are mothers they will watch out for their children.
Then you have to think of the court system. No matter what you do, no matter how hard you try to protect your child, most likely they will get some kind of custody. So you feel defeated there. You feel like it is better if you stay, this way you can protect your child 100% of the time, but your not free, your children aren't free, you just aren't there to watch them.
So to me, what is the answer here? Mine would be to build up the person that is not an alcoholic so that they can do the best for their child.
I was also into minimizing, justifying, denying. My ex could have killed me, and I would still have been doing the same thing. "Why", there are many reasons that you can't leave. My biggest problem I guess is that you got married, you don't get divorced, you work things out. I was raised that way.
Even though I quit that forum that I was reading then, "verbal abuse", I still to this day go back there, because I knew something was wrong. I just didn't participate in it. Just wished people happy birthdays.
I just really think that first, you need to get the persons trust. If it is an extreme case of abuse, then yell out, get the h3ll out of there. If not help them build there own self esteem, confidence, self awareness, they are mothers they will watch out for their children.
Then you have to think of the court system. No matter what you do, no matter how hard you try to protect your child, most likely they will get some kind of custody. So you feel defeated there. You feel like it is better if you stay, this way you can protect your child 100% of the time, but your not free, your children aren't free, you just aren't there to watch them.
So to me, what is the answer here? Mine would be to build up the person that is not an alcoholic so that they can do the best for their child.
There are many variables that come into play, but if someone asks for help and you/me/we (or most people) can see what is up, then it is time to suggest taking the blinders off and listing out what might be going on...and ways to deal with it. Those ways are probably not what the person who asked the question want to hear though. No one likes to hear this stuff. I know that I didn't. But...if people kept glossing things over, I would not have gotten it. However, I am stubborn and need things repeated. That is how my mind works. As I have gotten older, I have learned to not take things personally, especially if those things are from strangers. Personally, I try to take away what I can and leave the rest but know that I might need "the rest" someday.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
I must say that I have told many people to run and to get out when there was physical abuse.
I stayed for the physical abuse so I will never be upset if someone does not leave and did not hear my "rightness".
I think sometimes you can tell how to deal with someone. If they do not want to take your suggestions the first time, do not beat them over the head with your "rightness". It's actually trying to control another person, and not getting them to do what you want.
In a way, with all the abuse that I have gone through, I know when to hold them and when to fold them. When to offer a shoulder, and when to give a kick in the a$$. Sometimes I think you need to listen, and take the lead from the person who is talking.
See where there head is at, at that time. Offer ES&H. Do not bash, do not diminish. Be a safe person, a sounding board for another person. I am not the smartest person in the world, and I will not project that onto another person, that my way is the only way. I will let them know that I know and I can feel what they are going through, but they have their own mind, and it is not my job to make decisions for them. I will just be there for that person, be a friend, be a shoulder for no matter how long it takes. It took me over 10 years. I can do that for another.
I stayed for the physical abuse so I will never be upset if someone does not leave and did not hear my "rightness".
I think sometimes you can tell how to deal with someone. If they do not want to take your suggestions the first time, do not beat them over the head with your "rightness". It's actually trying to control another person, and not getting them to do what you want.
In a way, with all the abuse that I have gone through, I know when to hold them and when to fold them. When to offer a shoulder, and when to give a kick in the a$$. Sometimes I think you need to listen, and take the lead from the person who is talking.
See where there head is at, at that time. Offer ES&H. Do not bash, do not diminish. Be a safe person, a sounding board for another person. I am not the smartest person in the world, and I will not project that onto another person, that my way is the only way. I will let them know that I know and I can feel what they are going through, but they have their own mind, and it is not my job to make decisions for them. I will just be there for that person, be a friend, be a shoulder for no matter how long it takes. It took me over 10 years. I can do that for another.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
Also, if we want to talk about children here I will. I think it is a lot better for a child whose mother or dad who is in a situation with an alcoholic, or someone who is abusive to be receiving help for themselves. We scare people away from coming on too strong we scare away the better parent.
That parent then starts to feel really bad about themselves. So how did we help?
Did we in fact cause additional harm or abuse?
That parent then starts to feel really bad about themselves. So how did we help?
Did we in fact cause additional harm or abuse?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
I just have one other thing to say about this or these situations with newbies. They come here and they tell you that they are not abused. But yet this guy or gal is drinking everyday coming home drunk and there is no emotional connection. That is abuse !!!!! Also, they are not telling you a lot of other things.
So, is it our job to beat them up, more then or equal to the emotional beating that they have already been taking???? Or should we give them a safe place to share, and then bring up other things once they get their emotional mind back to normal ??????
So, is it our job to beat them up, more then or equal to the emotional beating that they have already been taking???? Or should we give them a safe place to share, and then bring up other things once they get their emotional mind back to normal ??????
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
First I think it's important for me to state that I have been in an emotionally and verbally abusive marriage, but not a physically abusive one. Also, I have no children of my own. I want to be clear about what my personal experience has, and has not, been.
Over the years of my belonging to this community, I have seen many, sadly too many, abused women and men come here and share part of their story. I have read many stories from couragous survivors, those still 'in the trenches', and those who have just made that first, tentative attempt to reach out to others about the horrors in their homes. More than one member of our Administrative team are survivors of abuse.
People who have lived with abuse for a very long time have become so beaten down, degraded, insulted, told they are stupid, ugly, worthless, lazy, and unloveable that they come to accept the abuser's words as their reality--they have known no other for such a long time. Perhaps their whole lives. Reaching out for help for the very first time is often an act of monumental courage that I cannot begin to fathom because of the brainwashing they have received.
My greatest hope is that an abused person:
Over the years of my belonging to this community, I have seen many, sadly too many, abused women and men come here and share part of their story. I have read many stories from couragous survivors, those still 'in the trenches', and those who have just made that first, tentative attempt to reach out to others about the horrors in their homes. More than one member of our Administrative team are survivors of abuse.
People who have lived with abuse for a very long time have become so beaten down, degraded, insulted, told they are stupid, ugly, worthless, lazy, and unloveable that they come to accept the abuser's words as their reality--they have known no other for such a long time. Perhaps their whole lives. Reaching out for help for the very first time is often an act of monumental courage that I cannot begin to fathom because of the brainwashing they have received.
My greatest hope is that an abused person:
- will be lifted up by belonging to this community.
- will receive support and the truth spoken with love.
- will learn to trust and listen to the voices here who care because the words we use show that we respect the abused person's intelligence and capabilities.
- will realize that we think she or he is a valued human being worthy of dignity and respect.
- will come to realize that life does not have to be darkness, anxiety, and terror for them or their children--that there is a better way.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,066
Then you have to think of the court system. No matter what you do, no matter how hard you try to protect your child, most likely they will get some kind of custody. So you feel defeated there. You feel like it is better if you stay, this way you can protect your child 100% of the time, but your not free, your children aren't free, you just aren't there to watch them.
So to me, what is the answer here? Mine would be to build up the person that is not an alcoholic so that they can do the best for their child.
So to me, what is the answer here? Mine would be to build up the person that is not an alcoholic so that they can do the best for their child.
I agree wholeheartedly that mothers especially need gentle words. We all think we're protecting our kids when we get here. It's not until we're convinced that we need recovery and then start to actually seek it that we realize that we weren't protecting them much at all. Telling a mother bluntly that she's not protecting her children are fighting words, IMO, and you'll get one of two responses: fight or flight.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
((amy))
I think it depends on the person. Some newcomers are much further along than others. Its so important to hear what they are saying and to remember they need support just to get through today many times. Its just like the addict themselves, the partners dont change until ready and they need support not criticism during that time. Things can be said with kindness always. We who have been here for a while need to remember frequently how it felt in the beginning so we can be better in tune to supporting others. Just my opinion.
I think it depends on the person. Some newcomers are much further along than others. Its so important to hear what they are saying and to remember they need support just to get through today many times. Its just like the addict themselves, the partners dont change until ready and they need support not criticism during that time. Things can be said with kindness always. We who have been here for a while need to remember frequently how it felt in the beginning so we can be better in tune to supporting others. Just my opinion.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 23
Speaking as a newbie, teetering on the fence of what needs to be done and whether I actually gave the courage to do it... I loved the post. The first time I posted the responses I got were honest, but a bit brutal. Not something I was ready for at the moment. I know you all are everything I aspire to be, but I hope you remember that most of us newbies are logging in looking for support *at that moment* in our lives when everything else is crumbling and we have no firm ground to hold on to.
I found SR when I was looking for validation for all the things I already knew and was almost ready to take the step towards. From lurking all the time I see first timers who break my heart from their stories and I cringe when I see the tough love responses because I know how fragile they are. Sometimes we post our vents and sit for the next hour refreshing, waiting for anyone to respond with some understanding or just a freaking hug. But then I see some post with a real harsh post and it makes me sad, because i know what it feels like to think that no one understands or gets you. We are abuse victims who may just need some love at first.
I found SR when I was looking for validation for all the things I already knew and was almost ready to take the step towards. From lurking all the time I see first timers who break my heart from their stories and I cringe when I see the tough love responses because I know how fragile they are. Sometimes we post our vents and sit for the next hour refreshing, waiting for anyone to respond with some understanding or just a freaking hug. But then I see some post with a real harsh post and it makes me sad, because i know what it feels like to think that no one understands or gets you. We are abuse victims who may just need some love at first.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
My whole thing here comes down to this. Have respect for a newbie. They researched because they knew things weren't right. They came here and registered because they were seeking help. Some are more in denial then others, does that mean we turn are back on them because they don't see our "rightness"? We can only offer ES&H. That's it. Please remember people can take what they want and leave the rest.
If we can extend that olive branch and they take hold, that's good. If they feel supported here, that's better. There is always hope. I know many people stay here, I for one, to make sure that no one ever goes through what I went through. That's good. To beat someone over the head with our own "rightness", not good. We are then as bad as the person they are with or worried about.
If you befriend someone on here and they are not acting like you want them to, then leave them alone. They were looking for someone they can trust. If you can't do that them get them back to the forums for someone else they can lean on. I had to lean on someone for over 10 years before I got out. It wasn't the same people, but I leaned until I could stand. That's what this forum is about. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.
If we can extend that olive branch and they take hold, that's good. If they feel supported here, that's better. There is always hope. I know many people stay here, I for one, to make sure that no one ever goes through what I went through. That's good. To beat someone over the head with our own "rightness", not good. We are then as bad as the person they are with or worried about.
If you befriend someone on here and they are not acting like you want them to, then leave them alone. They were looking for someone they can trust. If you can't do that them get them back to the forums for someone else they can lean on. I had to lean on someone for over 10 years before I got out. It wasn't the same people, but I leaned until I could stand. That's what this forum is about. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 485
I think a big factor for me was isolation...when I found SR, I had been home with my babies (working from home part-time) for three years. By then, I was fully immersed in the chaos of life with an A and so very isolated. Makes me feel sad just thinking about it. Anyway, I was so alone because I didn't feel I could talk to anyone I knew without being judged, and I'd lost touch with most of my support network. The isolation is the worst part. It truly is like a brainwashing effect. For me, being listened to and being able to share the darkest details that I could never share with anyone I knew allowed me to get it out of my head and on "paper" and forced me to look at reality, but also, there is tremendous comfort in hearing "been there" from another person (talking to you Amy, and several others here).
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
Emmy,
Did I tell you today that I love you???? I think you are doing so great, with that new apt.
Also, no, I cannot judge anyone after what I went through, and how many times I stayed and etc, etc.
I'm just so happy that you are doing ok.
(((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))
Did I tell you today that I love you???? I think you are doing so great, with that new apt.
Also, no, I cannot judge anyone after what I went through, and how many times I stayed and etc, etc.
I'm just so happy that you are doing ok.
(((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
I think that's why we're encouraged to share our experiences instead of give advice, no?
I know that there was a time when I could not hear or understand that I was putting my children in danger. It wasn't that I felt judged by those suggestions -- I simply was unable to comprehend that living with an alcoholic and being exposed to harsh words from him was that bad. I was convinced that an intact nuclear family was more important than anything else.
I didn't know what emotional and verbal abuse was, or how detrimental it is -- to children and adults. But when those words were used about my situation, a seed was sown, and I started reading about emotional and verbal abuse, and step by step realized that yes, that was indeed what was happening inside my family. And yes, it was very traumatic and destructive for the children. And yes, the fact that I was also a victim of it probably prevented me from seeing quite how destructive it was.
My experience is that when I first came here, anything anyone said that wasn't simply stroking me the direction of my fur was offensive to me. As so many have said, part of living in an abusive relationship is that you have gotten so accustomed to the abuse that you see it as normal. For me, I needed those harsh truths to wake up. I needed people to tell me "Your situation is not NORMAL: your marriage is abusive, you are sick, and your children are suffering, and you are not doing enough to protect them, and that is your responsibility."
I needed to hear it. I hated it. And I was offended by it. But it was still the truth, and the truth did get through in the end. And for that, I'm grateful.
I know that there was a time when I could not hear or understand that I was putting my children in danger. It wasn't that I felt judged by those suggestions -- I simply was unable to comprehend that living with an alcoholic and being exposed to harsh words from him was that bad. I was convinced that an intact nuclear family was more important than anything else.
I didn't know what emotional and verbal abuse was, or how detrimental it is -- to children and adults. But when those words were used about my situation, a seed was sown, and I started reading about emotional and verbal abuse, and step by step realized that yes, that was indeed what was happening inside my family. And yes, it was very traumatic and destructive for the children. And yes, the fact that I was also a victim of it probably prevented me from seeing quite how destructive it was.
My experience is that when I first came here, anything anyone said that wasn't simply stroking me the direction of my fur was offensive to me. As so many have said, part of living in an abusive relationship is that you have gotten so accustomed to the abuse that you see it as normal. For me, I needed those harsh truths to wake up. I needed people to tell me "Your situation is not NORMAL: your marriage is abusive, you are sick, and your children are suffering, and you are not doing enough to protect them, and that is your responsibility."
I needed to hear it. I hated it. And I was offended by it. But it was still the truth, and the truth did get through in the end. And for that, I'm grateful.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
