Our role and responsibilities
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 80
Our role and responsibilities
I've been posting in the Newcomers board in the thread "I Don't Know How to Help My Brother." I've been reading the book "Co-dependent No Longer" and finding it helpful -- though there is a disconnect between what I know intellectually and what my emotions are saying. I've known for a long time that we've been letting Kevin and his problems control our lives, but the "caretaker" in me wants so much to make things better for him.
I have some questions still and am hoping for advice.
1) My brother has been driving my late father's pickup truck, which is in my mother's name. Since he's been on these anti-withdrawal meds, we haven't made the pickup available to him. Should we give him back the pickup? He has no transportation to work (about 15 miles away) without it -- but he hasn't been going to work anyway.
2) Should we intervene in his work situation -- talk to his boss to try to keep his job? We're worried about him losing his insurance coverage if he gets canned.
3) When he was out of work because of his back, my mom paid his insurance premiums. Should we do this again if it comes down to it?
4) In general, should we be supporting him financially? Feeding him? Buying his cigarettes?
5) If he stays in the house, do we have a right to go into his room, insist he not drink in the house, make him get rid of whatever "stash" he might have? (not that it's possible to prevent him from hiding stuff and drinking if he wants to, but to at least make the expectation clear that we don't want him drinking in the house)
6) We've been doling out his meds, afraid he might misuse them if left to his own devices. But should we be making him take responsibility for this himself?
7) Finally, should we insist that he leave the house and find somewhere else to live until he gets it together? It's so hard on my mom having him there (she's as much as controller/caretaker as I am), and I can't take time off work to be there to try to take care of both of them.
Any advice would be so appreciated. Thanks so much for the guidance you've already offered.
Kgm
I have some questions still and am hoping for advice.
1) My brother has been driving my late father's pickup truck, which is in my mother's name. Since he's been on these anti-withdrawal meds, we haven't made the pickup available to him. Should we give him back the pickup? He has no transportation to work (about 15 miles away) without it -- but he hasn't been going to work anyway.
2) Should we intervene in his work situation -- talk to his boss to try to keep his job? We're worried about him losing his insurance coverage if he gets canned.
3) When he was out of work because of his back, my mom paid his insurance premiums. Should we do this again if it comes down to it?
4) In general, should we be supporting him financially? Feeding him? Buying his cigarettes?
5) If he stays in the house, do we have a right to go into his room, insist he not drink in the house, make him get rid of whatever "stash" he might have? (not that it's possible to prevent him from hiding stuff and drinking if he wants to, but to at least make the expectation clear that we don't want him drinking in the house)
6) We've been doling out his meds, afraid he might misuse them if left to his own devices. But should we be making him take responsibility for this himself?
7) Finally, should we insist that he leave the house and find somewhere else to live until he gets it together? It's so hard on my mom having him there (she's as much as controller/caretaker as I am), and I can't take time off work to be there to try to take care of both of them.
Any advice would be so appreciated. Thanks so much for the guidance you've already offered.
Kgm
once in a . . .
Join Date: May 2004
Location: looking in / looking out
Posts: 1,214
(i realized when i got tot the end of this, that i'm talking to myself - - - i'm NOT trying to be harsh with you! Alcoholism is harsh.
Your brother is 45!
Let him grow up!
Check out "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews - it's written more for spouses, but it should still be very helpful - it's saved my sanity many, many times.
do you know how happy You could be if you only let yourself spend 1/10th of that energy on Yourself?!
No One wakes up one fine, sunny day and says 'What a great day!!! i think i'll get sober today!'
If *I* hadn't been 'allowed' to fall flat on my face, i would have Never even thought about getting sober! (1 have 12.5 yrs)
It's hard, but you have to love some one enough to let them make their Own mistakes
(currently, i'm "allowing" my beloved AH to fall on his face. He was sober 7yrs + decided one day that wasn't "fun" any more. He came home drunk, i made him leave, i have no clue where he is. he has no vehicle, no money, no job, and the clothes on his back. i am really really scared, but i KNOW that if i hunt him down, have him committed, make him get sober, that nothing will have been solved - been there, done that!)
NO!!!!
If for no other reson than the Owner of a vehicle CAN be held legally responsible (ie: sued) in case of an accident.
NO!
this is way bigger than him losing his insurance
NO!
Mom should go shopping and treat herself!
the woman recently lost her husband for goodness sakes! her son is 45yo!
HE should be taking care of HER!!!!
YES!
MY feeling is that if you live in MY house, you play by MY rules. If you are drunk, don't come home.
Sounds mean huh? well, in my mind, being in the same house with a drunk is ME being mean to ME!
if he lands in jail, well, at least he's in a safe place.
YES!
tho i totally understand how scary that is! BUT - if you don't let an alcoholic be responsible for their own actions, you are robbing them of an oppourtunity to finally figure it out!
YES!
Neither one of you should be "taking care of him"!!
Let him BE a grown up!
This is NOT a failure on your Mom's part OR yours!!!
i do NOT mean to imply that Any of this is "easy"!! it's Not!
You need to realize that you can only control your own actions.
This has to be done for YOU, NOT him.
You CAN make the decision to Let Go - AND - Be Happy.
None of this is easy!
Like any new skill (and it IS a "skill"!), it takes practice, mistakes, trying again, and more practice.
You + your mom need to be gentle with yourselves.
YOU ARE WORTH IT!
Let God take care of your brother. Human strength/willpower alone cannot do it. God can
with much love + understanding,
Blue
I've been posting in the Newcomers board in the thread "I Don't Know How to Help My Brother." I've been reading the book "Co-dependent No Longer" and finding it helpful -- though there is a disconnect between what I know intellectually and what my emotions are saying.
Let him grow up!
Check out "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews - it's written more for spouses, but it should still be very helpful - it's saved my sanity many, many times.
I've known for a long time that we've been letting Kevin and his problems control our lives, but the "caretaker" in me wants so much to make things better for him.
No One wakes up one fine, sunny day and says 'What a great day!!! i think i'll get sober today!'
If *I* hadn't been 'allowed' to fall flat on my face, i would have Never even thought about getting sober! (1 have 12.5 yrs)
It's hard, but you have to love some one enough to let them make their Own mistakes
(currently, i'm "allowing" my beloved AH to fall on his face. He was sober 7yrs + decided one day that wasn't "fun" any more. He came home drunk, i made him leave, i have no clue where he is. he has no vehicle, no money, no job, and the clothes on his back. i am really really scared, but i KNOW that if i hunt him down, have him committed, make him get sober, that nothing will have been solved - been there, done that!)
1) My brother has been driving my late father's pickup truck, which is in my mother's name. ... Should we give him back the pickup?
If for no other reson than the Owner of a vehicle CAN be held legally responsible (ie: sued) in case of an accident.
2) Should we intervene in his work situation -- talk to his boss to try to keep his job? We're worried about him losing his insurance coverage if he gets canned.
this is way bigger than him losing his insurance
3) When he was out of work because of his back, my mom paid his insurance premiums. Should we do this again if it comes down to it? ...
4) In general, should we be supporting him financially? Feeding him? Buying his cigarettes?
4) In general, should we be supporting him financially? Feeding him? Buying his cigarettes?
Mom should go shopping and treat herself!
the woman recently lost her husband for goodness sakes! her son is 45yo!
HE should be taking care of HER!!!!
5) If he stays in the house, do we have a right to go into his room, insist he not drink in the house, make him get rid of whatever "stash" he might have? (not that it's possible to prevent him from hiding stuff and drinking if he wants to, but to at least make the expectation clear that we don't want him drinking in the house)
MY feeling is that if you live in MY house, you play by MY rules. If you are drunk, don't come home.
Sounds mean huh? well, in my mind, being in the same house with a drunk is ME being mean to ME!
if he lands in jail, well, at least he's in a safe place.
6) We've been doling out his meds, afraid he might misuse them if left to his own devices. But should we be making him take responsibility for this himself?
tho i totally understand how scary that is! BUT - if you don't let an alcoholic be responsible for their own actions, you are robbing them of an oppourtunity to finally figure it out!
7) Finally, should we insist that he leave the house and find somewhere else to live until he gets it together? It's so hard on my mom having him there (she's as much as controller/caretaker as I am), and I can't take time off work to be there to try to take care of both of them.
Neither one of you should be "taking care of him"!!
Let him BE a grown up!
This is NOT a failure on your Mom's part OR yours!!!
i do NOT mean to imply that Any of this is "easy"!! it's Not!
You need to realize that you can only control your own actions.
This has to be done for YOU, NOT him.
You CAN make the decision to Let Go - AND - Be Happy.
None of this is easy!
Like any new skill (and it IS a "skill"!), it takes practice, mistakes, trying again, and more practice.
You + your mom need to be gentle with yourselves.
YOU ARE WORTH IT!
Let God take care of your brother. Human strength/willpower alone cannot do it. God can
with much love + understanding,
Blue
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Star's Hollow
Posts: 615
(((Hugs to you))))
As long as I kept "taking care" of my H, he kept letting me. It only led to me being frustrated and blaming him. I only reinforced what he believed - that he couldn't take care of himself. When I stopped, I was basically telling him "You are a grown man. You are perfectly capable of making your own choices and living with them. You are smart enough and strong enough to take care of yourself."
You might not want to try to change your universe today. Just pick one thing - anything you think you shouldn't have to do for him. Stop doing it. Once you discover that you can stop doing that one thing and the world won't end, you can move on to the next one. Whatever your mom and the rest of your family does is up to them. Don't spend your energy trying to convince them not to do something. Let them figure it out on their own. You can be an example of someone who has chosen to live her own life without the drama.
You are worth it. Your life is important. You don't have to be tangled up in this. It is not selfish. You don't have to feel guilty. He makes his choices and you make yours - it is as simple (and as complicated) as that.
Keep coming back and keep reading. It will get easier.
L
As long as I kept "taking care" of my H, he kept letting me. It only led to me being frustrated and blaming him. I only reinforced what he believed - that he couldn't take care of himself. When I stopped, I was basically telling him "You are a grown man. You are perfectly capable of making your own choices and living with them. You are smart enough and strong enough to take care of yourself."
You might not want to try to change your universe today. Just pick one thing - anything you think you shouldn't have to do for him. Stop doing it. Once you discover that you can stop doing that one thing and the world won't end, you can move on to the next one. Whatever your mom and the rest of your family does is up to them. Don't spend your energy trying to convince them not to do something. Let them figure it out on their own. You can be an example of someone who has chosen to live her own life without the drama.
You are worth it. Your life is important. You don't have to be tangled up in this. It is not selfish. You don't have to feel guilty. He makes his choices and you make yours - it is as simple (and as complicated) as that.
Keep coming back and keep reading. It will get easier.
L
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 80
Our role and responsibilities
Thanks for your candor. I do think my brother needs to be out of the house. But he has no wheels, no place to go (though he's been trying to sweet talk two different women into letting him live with them). Do we just tell him to pack a suitcase and walk out the door, and good luck?
Also, he CLAIMS to have been sober for a week (and we have no real evidence to the contrary). He has taken steps to help himself, including phoning the local chemical dependency center to set up a second appointment with them. He seems somewhat amenable to in-patient treatment and has said he will go to AA. Since he has only now come clean with us about the nature of his problem (after having been a closet drinker for years), we are hesitant to throw him out for fear he'll think we're rejecting and abandoning him. Surely he needs to know that we want to support him in his recovery.
Thanks again for the guidance.
kgm
Also, he CLAIMS to have been sober for a week (and we have no real evidence to the contrary). He has taken steps to help himself, including phoning the local chemical dependency center to set up a second appointment with them. He seems somewhat amenable to in-patient treatment and has said he will go to AA. Since he has only now come clean with us about the nature of his problem (after having been a closet drinker for years), we are hesitant to throw him out for fear he'll think we're rejecting and abandoning him. Surely he needs to know that we want to support him in his recovery.
Thanks again for the guidance.
kgm
Dancing To My Own Beat
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: I don't know what kind of state I'm in
Posts: 1,326
Hi Osakis,
Glad you joined us over here. One thing about Al-anon, they don't give "advice". The program is designed so that you take responsibility for your life and your decisions with help and guidance. For years I wanted someone to tell me what to do to be happy. I was raised with people who were controlling or leaches. I have always depended on someone else to make the decisions for me. Then if it didn't work out, I could blame someone else. Al-anon meetings offer support and encouragement, but it is up to the individual to decide what they need to do to recover. The program has helped me to learn what is best for me, what I want out of life, and how to go about getting that. It took a lifetime to get to the point I was at looking for help. There were no pat answers, and it took a while for me to understand that it is a process to heal and grow. One or two pat answers can't fix that. Keep coming back, keep reading(there is a great book list under the Power Posts at the top of the forum) and give yourself and recovery some time. There are many here that can share THEIR experience with you, but no one can ultimately tell you what YOU should do. We support the decisions YOU make for YOUR recovery. Hugs and prayers, Magic
Glad you joined us over here. One thing about Al-anon, they don't give "advice". The program is designed so that you take responsibility for your life and your decisions with help and guidance. For years I wanted someone to tell me what to do to be happy. I was raised with people who were controlling or leaches. I have always depended on someone else to make the decisions for me. Then if it didn't work out, I could blame someone else. Al-anon meetings offer support and encouragement, but it is up to the individual to decide what they need to do to recover. The program has helped me to learn what is best for me, what I want out of life, and how to go about getting that. It took a lifetime to get to the point I was at looking for help. There were no pat answers, and it took a while for me to understand that it is a process to heal and grow. One or two pat answers can't fix that. Keep coming back, keep reading(there is a great book list under the Power Posts at the top of the forum) and give yourself and recovery some time. There are many here that can share THEIR experience with you, but no one can ultimately tell you what YOU should do. We support the decisions YOU make for YOUR recovery. Hugs and prayers, Magic
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 80
Advice ...
Originally Posted by Magichappens
Hi Osakis,
Glad you joined us over here. One thing about Al-anon, they don't give "advice". The program is designed so that you take responsibility for your life and your decisions with help and guidance.
Glad you joined us over here. One thing about Al-anon, they don't give "advice". The program is designed so that you take responsibility for your life and your decisions with help and guidance.
This is just so far out of our realm of experience that we feel like we're drowning. I also feel some urgency to do SOMETHING in the short-term so we can buy ourselves some time to get educated and regroup physically and emotionally.
Keri
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Star's Hollow
Posts: 615
(((Keri)))
You sound like you are definately on the right track to me. Keep coming back and let us know how you are doing. Everyone is looking for answers and we have all felt like we were drowning. There is hope and experience here and with Al-Anon. I'm glad you've started your journey and I'm glad you found SR. It's a great place.
L
You sound like you are definately on the right track to me. Keep coming back and let us know how you are doing. Everyone is looking for answers and we have all felt like we were drowning. There is hope and experience here and with Al-Anon. I'm glad you've started your journey and I'm glad you found SR. It's a great place.
L
Dancing To My Own Beat
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: I don't know what kind of state I'm in
Posts: 1,326
(((Keri)))
You are moving in the right direction. If you need to take some drastic measure to ensure the safety and sanity of your family, then that is what you need to do. But that will only be a temporary reprieve unless you continue to seek recovery for yourself. If your family is anything like mine, they won't be as willing to quit enabling the A, and we become the bad guy. Just a guess. Like I said, it takes some time and willingness, but the payoff is a good one. Take care of you. You are worth it! Hugs, Magic
You are moving in the right direction. If you need to take some drastic measure to ensure the safety and sanity of your family, then that is what you need to do. But that will only be a temporary reprieve unless you continue to seek recovery for yourself. If your family is anything like mine, they won't be as willing to quit enabling the A, and we become the bad guy. Just a guess. Like I said, it takes some time and willingness, but the payoff is a good one. Take care of you. You are worth it! Hugs, Magic
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ayer's Cliff, Quebec
Posts: 803
Hi,
Any alanon meetings in your area? Time to get to a few.
Is your brother over 18?
If he is no reason to be doing anything for him if he's not doing anything to help himself.
Time to worry about yourselves and let him worry about himself. As long as you and your Mom do it for him he doesn't have to do anything for himself.
Ngaire
Any alanon meetings in your area? Time to get to a few.
Is your brother over 18?
If he is no reason to be doing anything for him if he's not doing anything to help himself.
Time to worry about yourselves and let him worry about himself. As long as you and your Mom do it for him he doesn't have to do anything for himself.
Ngaire
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 80
Our roles and Responsibilities
Originally Posted by myles1
Hi,
Any alanon meetings in your area? Time to get to a few.
Is your brother over 18?
If he is no reason to be doing anything for him if he's not doing anything to help himself.
Time to worry about yourselves and let him worry about himself. As long as you and your Mom do it for him he doesn't have to do anything for himself.
Ngaire
Any alanon meetings in your area? Time to get to a few.
Is your brother over 18?
If he is no reason to be doing anything for him if he's not doing anything to help himself.
Time to worry about yourselves and let him worry about himself. As long as you and your Mom do it for him he doesn't have to do anything for himself.
Ngaire
I acknowledge the importance of him taking responsibility for his problems, but he is not in a position to do much for himself -- he has no vehicle, he has no financial resources, he has no place to stay/live apart from our house. If he WANTS to go to work, WANTS to see a therapist, doesn't it behoove us to make that possible for him? What is the line between enabling/caretaking and supporting?
Keri
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Star's Hollow
Posts: 615
If his actions show that he wants to improve his life and take responsibility for his actions, I see no reason why you shouldn't support him in that. My H has been saying he's going to "do better" (whatever that means) for 15 years. I guess I'm just saying that, if he really wants to do these things, he'll be doing them. If he just talks about doing them, he doesn't really want to. He's just telling you what you want to hear. If he wants to go to rehab, he'll pick up the phone & find one. If he wants to find a job, he'll go out and get one. If he wants to go to AA, he'll find a meeting and go. If he doesn't want to, nothing in the world you can do will fix it for him.
L
L
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ayer's Cliff, Quebec
Posts: 803
I don't know what his crisis is so I can't comment.
Lorelai is right if he really wants to be doing those things he'd be doing them. A's have a habit of telling you what you want to hear.
Ngaire
Lorelai is right if he really wants to be doing those things he'd be doing them. A's have a habit of telling you what you want to hear.
Ngaire
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
First and foremost I always suggest that if you don't know what to do, do nothing. Yes, counceling, Al Anon and your priest could help to give you the knowledge you need to make those choices.
It is alway the details that get us stuck...we get the big picture but the details drive us nuts.
If he is serious about getting sober a good place for him might be a half way house where he would live with other's that would hold him accountable. They all insist on employment and participation in a recovery program. Some are stricter than others and some will GET them a job if they drag their feet too long. I have an open offer for my son to help him with the first month if and when he decides to go to one. In the meantime he cannot live here...period.
Hugs and luck,
JT
It is alway the details that get us stuck...we get the big picture but the details drive us nuts.
If he is serious about getting sober a good place for him might be a half way house where he would live with other's that would hold him accountable. They all insist on employment and participation in a recovery program. Some are stricter than others and some will GET them a job if they drag their feet too long. I have an open offer for my son to help him with the first month if and when he decides to go to one. In the meantime he cannot live here...period.
Hugs and luck,
JT
once in a . . .
Join Date: May 2004
Location: looking in / looking out
Posts: 1,214
I do think my brother needs to be out of the house. But he has no wheels, no place to go ... Do we just tell him to pack a suitcase and walk out the door, and good luck?
but the easier we make it for them to drink, the less reason they have to want to think about stopping -
it has helped me tremendously to decide what my boundaries are + then to "share" them with my AH at a moment when we ere both calm - the hard part comes when those boudaries are pushed - choose your boundaries carefully! your 'bluff' will be called!
MY boundary with my husband is Don't come home drunk!
it has taken years + years of hard work (on my part), to be able to say that, mean it, back it up and feel calm while doing it - (wow!)
Boundaries are FOR YOU - and so they should be what is at least semi-comfortable to you - boundaries are a way we work on taking care of ourselves - they're very different for different people, there's no hard + fast "rule" or anything -
that is wonderful that your brother has been in touch with the treatment center! that's a huge step for him! what's helped me, is to be SUPER SUPPORTIVE of behaviors like that - it IS abig deal!!!
(i never meant to imply that being supportive isn't a very good thing! just that we need to remember to take care of ourselves as well)
hang in there!
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
Osaki-
God we all know what we ought to do is be tough and not enable. It is so much easier said than done. Most of us have to take 1 step forward and 2 steps back. I would love to be able to disengage from my emotions long enough to make this advice which is very good work for me. Here's hoping that you can...
God we all know what we ought to do is be tough and not enable. It is so much easier said than done. Most of us have to take 1 step forward and 2 steps back. I would love to be able to disengage from my emotions long enough to make this advice which is very good work for me. Here's hoping that you can...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 80
Thanks so much to everyone for your encouragement and advice. I suppose we're "fortunate" in that we've never experienced some of the really catastrophic aspects of my brother's disease -- since he is the epitome of the "closet drinker," we've never had to deal with violence, anger, publicly embarrassing behavior, DUIs, accidents and all the other things that others here have described. The down side to this is that I'm afraid it will be harder for my brother to understand the importance of getting help, since he hasn't had to face any public consequences of his problem. He's been able to hide it -- and function -- for a long, long time.
kgm
kgm
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
Yes your happiness is just as important as your brothers recovery. I have 3 syblings who are crack addicts they use my mom and I could really just get sooooooooo angry and upset. But, it boiled down to me getting so involved that I go crazy and get used and ripped off or, I can find my own peace....
I choose to be at peace. My mom will not stop letting them use her as it makes her feel like she is in control HA!!!!! So I told her to just stop calling me until she is ready to stop letting them use her of course that probably won't be until she looses everything she has. I am sick of her whinning. This may sound extreemly harsh but, after 30 years of it I am ready to just be on my own and take my chances and make my choices. It has nothing to do with loving them cause I do love them so much but, I know and I mean really know that there is absoluty NOTHING i can do that will make them get help especially as long as they have mom to use.
Peace my sister in codieness
I choose to be at peace. My mom will not stop letting them use her as it makes her feel like she is in control HA!!!!! So I told her to just stop calling me until she is ready to stop letting them use her of course that probably won't be until she looses everything she has. I am sick of her whinning. This may sound extreemly harsh but, after 30 years of it I am ready to just be on my own and take my chances and make my choices. It has nothing to do with loving them cause I do love them so much but, I know and I mean really know that there is absoluty NOTHING i can do that will make them get help especially as long as they have mom to use.
Peace my sister in codieness
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 80
Helping Myself
Originally Posted by splendra
Yes your happiness is just as important as your brothers recovery. I have 3 syblings who are crack addicts they use my mom and I could really just get sooooooooo angry and upset. But, it boiled down to me getting so involved that I go crazy and get used and ripped off or, I can find my own peace....
Tonight I and my sister will attend our first Al-Anon meeting. My mom doesn't feel able to go yet. I hope she will be able to soon. Kevin is still considering in-patient treatment (I pray that comes to pass) and has said he will attend AA on Saturday. I'm afraid to set myself up for disappointment by hoping that things are improving, though. This past week has been such a hell that I'm feeling shell-shocked and paranoid.Keri
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
Dear Keri,
Good luck at your first meeting!!! I pray it will help you find the solutions you are looking for and that your mom will soon attend as well.
I totally understand that shell-shocked feeling.
Good luck at your first meeting!!! I pray it will help you find the solutions you are looking for and that your mom will soon attend as well.
I totally understand that shell-shocked feeling.
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