kasie

So...(ex?)(R?)ABF and I attended a therapist session the other week. Although he's sober at the moment (and has been for a few months) he's view is that he'll eventually drink again...and hopefully 'keep it moderated'.

My view: I've been on the merry go round too many times before that 'moderate drinking' ends badly. Whether or not it takes a day, a week or a few months, in the past it's always ended up in really bad binges, horrid withdrawals and detox.

So here's the big question: can alcoholics ever really drink again (normally)? I think not, but I'm here for other people's views and thoughts on the topic. If there's one thing I've learnt in AlAnon (and I'm going regularly, it's great), it's that I don't have all the answers, and I don't know everything - hence my post.

All comments and thoughts welcomed!

LexieCat

I tried mightily to moderate my drinking for four and a half years before I got sober. Not only did it not work, my alcoholism progressed during that time to the point where I went through withdrawals on a daily basis, and I had unpleasant withdrawal symptoms when I quit (no medical detox--I did it at home).

During those four and a half years I got to know hundreds of "problem drinkers" who were trying to do the same thing (part of an online support group designed for that purpose). In that time I encountered a handful (maybe 4-5) of people who appeared to have achieved long-term success with moderate drinking. For non-alcoholics who are drinking a bit too much that may be an option.

Since I've been in AA, though, I've met many, many people who started to drink again after years and years of sobriety. They all wound up, eventually, as bad off or worse than they were in the beginning. The years of sobriety did nothing to change their drinking or their response to alcohol.

Also, in my experience, anyone who is keeping the door open to "maybe" drinking again is pretty much a hundred percent likely to drink again--usually sooner, rather than later. Their minds are like the annoying little kid in the back seat, jumping up and down, "Are we there yet? Are we there yet?" IOW, they never REALLY get "sober" because they are just waiting for the chance to drink again. They never really experience how great life can be with alcohol completely out of the picture. They continually feel "deprived" because they can't drink. So eventually they do.

dandylion

Dear Kasie, my answer is "NO"---not for a true alcoholic. Not to my knowlege and I have never heard of it. I think it can "appear" to for various lengths of time--but, as you pointed out, the disease eventually takes over. The crux of alcoholism is the inability to control the consumption of alcohol.

I wish I could give you a better answer. I have heard that the dream of every alcoholic is to be a "controlled" drinker. Easy to understand why......

dandylion

Easyrider

My problem is that I can't moderate, for me that's what makes me an alcoholic. I can either drink or remain abstinent. Also, from an addicts point of view, moderation is pointless anyway.

Lifewillgetbet

Kasie. From experience NO. I have tried at least 50 times and it would always get carried away. I would have 1, then 6, 12, 24, bottle of booze. Then the alcohol disease monster takes over and the disease is unstoppable until something very negative happens.
It is a vicious cycle.

SoloMio

I think that what makes this question difficult is the support a drinker may get from well-meaning family and friends to just try to moderate. I've been amazed that my own family members are VERY resistant to encouraging AH to stop completely. One time I said to my brother that AH needs to quit. This was after my brother had brought AH and I to a hotel to check in. AH was extremely drunk and combative in the lobby and was verbally abusing me. Even so, my brother's response was, "He should just cut down." And my brother grew up in an alcoholic home with me, so he knows the score, which made me very surprised at his reaction.

It isn't as established in society that alcoholics need to be sober 100% of the time in order to recover, even if it seems like common wisdom in our AA/Al-Anon circles. I know that there was a founder and advocate of a "moderated alcohol" program who wound up in jail for killing a couple of people while driving drunk, so that's not very convincing evidence.

AnvilheadII

it really doesn't matter if any other alcoholic may or may not be able to moderate THEIR drinking, you aren't involved with them. what does your experience with THIS alcoholic tell you?

dandylion

On this subject, I think SoloMio makes a very, very good point! It is true that those of us who have been around or worked around alcoholism circles for a long time ten d to forget that most of what the general population knows of alcoholism is mostly myth---lots of misinformation!

I have, also, seen the most well-intentioned people suggest to just "cut down" or just "Cut Back". They simply do not know.

I have seen very good doctors--when confronted with a sick alcoholic--suggest that they "cut back" on the drinking. Again, they weren't taught about alcoholism in the ususal course of study. (Some have taken it upon themselves to study it, though).

WoW--I din't know about the founder of the moderate drinking program--and the driving incident!!

dandylion

LexieCat

For the record, Audrey Kishline, founder of MM, had the fatal collision after she had left MM (concluding she was unable to moderate) and was in AA. The collision happened during a relapse.

It doesn't "prove" anything one way or another, except that alcoholism is a deadly disease with deadly consequences.

ugghh

Kasie, you already know the answer to your question. Deep down you really already know. I know the answer even though I ask myself that same question everyday. I wish he could be a moderate drinker. But he just can't. I have been on that merry go round for so long. I am so dizzy I don't know which way is up. I'm slow-mo jumping off right now. I'm flailing. I'm not sure how I'm going to land. But, I know that moderate drinking is not an option. If it was, we wouldn't be here.

OhBoy

For an alcoholic no, for a non alcoholic most likely yes. Maybe the real question is whether he is an alcoholic? Another way to look at it.

Yurt

So how do you determine if your loved one is a heavy drinker or an alcoholic?
Mine is in the process of cutting down as well. Stopped buying boxes of wine and switched to bottles. He says that the boxowine iss too easy to drink. He also suggested that I had helped drink the last bwx since a 5 liter box was empty in 4 days.(I hate the stuff).

OhBoy

You don't determine it. That's for them to determine. You can determine if their drinking is affecting YOU though. If it is affecting you negatively then you can determine what you are going to do about it.

fluffyflea

[


Moderated drinking works for non-alcoholics. Period.





QUOTE=kasie;4028452]So...(ex?)(R?)ABF and I attended a therapist session the other week. Although he's sober at the moment (and has been for a few months) he's view is that he'll eventually drink again...and hopefully 'keep it moderated'.

My view: I've been on the merry go round too many times before that 'moderate drinking' ends badly. Whether or not it takes a day, a week or a few months, in the past it's always ended up in really bad binges, horrid withdrawals and detox.

So here's the big question: can alcoholics ever really drink again (normally)? I think not, but I'm here for other people's views and thoughts on the topic. If there's one thing I've learnt in AlAnon (and I'm going regularly, it's great), it's that I don't have all the answers, and I don't know everything - hence my post.

All comments and thoughts welcomed![/QUOTE]

liv1ce

Even after all these years and even after so many experiences that prove absolutely that I cannot dabble or moderate or "control" in any fashion whatsoever my drinking or drugging I continue to wish that there were some way in which I could. I simply love to get high and am unable to control it by any other means than abstinence.

So I guess my answer to your question is NO and as mentioned above I think you already know that.

unsureoffuture

In my opinion NO. My ADH tries to "cut back" and moderate his drinking and he is usually successful for a period of time. Sometimes many many months but it always ends up back in the same cycle of progression to more and more drinking. I have researched this same topic because I was curious too. I have heard one too many time "I'll cut back". I read that people who are not alcoholic but termed "problem drinkers" that havent progressed to the point of dependance on alcohol can be succesful at cutting back and moderating but once an alcoholic they cannot.

SparklingSeven

I tried for years and years. And years...

I REALLY tried. I SO wanted it to work. The odd night I managed to moderate my drinking it was rubbish. The rest of the time the usual chaos ensued.

dbaguy

Kasie -

I have yet to meet an alcoholic that can ever moderate their drinking. Besides my wife (who is newly recovering) I've known many friends who are alcoholics and in fact I just had coffee with a guy I've known for about 15 years last night. He's been an on-off recovery person for several years. He admitted to me that he gets sober for a while and then thinks he can control it, which he tries, and then (in his words) "I wake up after being drunk for 3 days". Everyone else I've known who has attempted this eventually falls back into drinking heavily. Maybe someone has achieved this as I don't think anything is impossible, but I think the odds are certainly stacked against someone.

ElegantlyWasted

" can alcoholics ever really drink again (normally)?

They way the vast majority of people here on SR define Alcoholic... No. I believe its easy to get hung up on the semantics of "addiction", "alcoholism" etc. I also believe the best way is to focus on a simple cause and effect analysis of what happens when said person drinks. I further believe that someone using the thought of drinking again as motivation to stop drinking in the short term can be a very dangerous mindset. Just my thoughts... Hope it gives some additional context for you to make good decisions. Knowledge is power; especially when used wisely, be sure to put yourself first.

As a side note: A good way to look at it is if a Person is miserable moderating (they're jonesing for for that BAC to spike to crazy levels)... That would be my best general definition. It can be sneaky too, some can do OK moderating for awhile then something (stressful event etc) sets of the bad stuff. That's why this stuff is so frustrating, controversial; why there are so many different (yet mostly valid) ways to look at this stuff. Generalizations, a theory of everything; does't hold for every situation and we get frustrated. So again; arm your self with knowledge; look at your own specific situation. You've got the tools to do the right thing.

CodeNameGiggles

Many a heavy drinker finds out they are really alcoholics in trying to moderate.

This hits too close to home for me this week, as my "non-alcoholic" husband had been moderating his way back to a fifth a day. His denial led to a another series of bad decisions with devastating consequences.