billp

Hello,

I just found this forum and I am finding many stories of people going through what I am (and FAR worse). It is relieving to read everyone's stories, but I would like to share my situation and hopefully get some insight.

I apologize in advance, this is going to be long.

I also want to say in advance that I absolutely love my wife and care for her more than I could ever say.

I am a 26 YO male, and I was just married last fall. My wife and I fell in love and got married in a short period of time (just over a year from when we started dating). As we were dating I knew that she had a bit of a problem with over indulging when it comes to drinking.

As 2 mid-twenties aged people, I think that it is somewhat common for people to drink and go to bars with friends on a fairly consistent basis. So I didn't look too far into the drinking issues, other than that it was probably just a lack of maturity.

Eventually her drinking started getting to the point that when she was "partying" she became the most wretched and vile person towards me. She would go off about ANYTHING. If I was having a conversation with another woman, if I was not paying enough attention to her, if I said something she didn't like, etc.

When she starts going off, she goes into complete crazy mode. There is no trying to reason or logic with her. She does and says the most uncontrollable things and is completely inconsolable. This happened once when we were driving back from a wedding and she literally ranted and raved for 2 straight hours in the car saying completely terrible and degrading things to me.

When we arrived at home she went berserk and acted like she was packing up to leave me. She drove away and drove back 3 separate times. Each time she came back she would come into the guest bedroom where I was trying to sleep and scream and yell and say terribly hateful things.

I tell this story because #1 it happens often and #2 during this particular "spree" I purposefully said nothing. Not a word. I did not engage in any of that madness because I know it gets me nowhere and I know she just wants a reaction out of me.

However, these types of events have happened more than I would care for in the past 9 months, than I would care for in a life time.

Recently it has really hit the fan. After my wife's latest episode, she broke down the next day, completely disgusted with her self. She could not believe her actions and was incredibly ashamed of herself (this happens like clock work EVERY TIME). She admitted she has a problem and said she was never going to drink again and how much it is affecting us (This also happens EVERY TIME).

The following cycle is literally exactly how each of these events plays out:

• Wife gets too drunk and absolutely loses all control
• Wife wakes up the next morning and is beside herself with grief about the way she acted towards me
• Wife resolves to NEVER drink again and fix the problem that is killing our relationship
• About a 4 days into the "NEVER drinking again period" - wife begins to express how she should just be able to have A drink
• Each day after wife states she should be able to "police" her drinking - she begins to twist the situation so that it is MY fault she has a drinking problem, and it is things I did to cause this
• Wife begins to drink "moderately"
• Moderate drinking leads to "I am able to have a few drinks and be OK"
• A few drinks leads to the major blow up that happened in the very beginning

It is truly amazing because once she starts talking about drinking again, she talks about it non stop. She manipulates every conversation about drinking into a fight. Each time, the fight evolves into it being someone or something else's fault that is causing the problems when she drinks.

Well, through this past series of events I started marking all of our vodka bottles that are in our house for "guests". One day I check on the bottles and low and behold, one of the bottles was missing. One of the other bottles (that was full) was over half empty.

I confronted her about the bottles of Vodka in a very calm and non aggressive manner. She told me one of the bottles fell down and broke and the other she had no explanation for. I said "OK, thank you for your honesty". She then proceeded to get incredibly upset for even asking about it, and that itself blew up into a huge fight.

Now, fast forward to last night:

She started trying to reason with me about having a couple of drinks (I do not know if this is right or wrong, but I NEVER tell her she can't drink. I just tell her that this is exactly how the situation plays out every time.).

For me this is truly maddening because the conversation / cycle is the EXACT same every time. Eventually, I was able to steer the conversation away from that topic and on the something else.

Towards the end of the night, she was off doing her thing and I was lounging on the couch. She came in to kiss me after a while, and WREAKED of booze. I nonchalantly asked her what she had to drink. She vehemently denied even having a drop of alcohol.

I told her again "I know for a fact that you have had something to drink tonight". She fought it and denied it but also would not let the conversation go. She was beside herself that I would even suggest she had something to drink.

So I went up to bed and she followed me very shortly after. As we were laying in bed, I told her that I knew about the Vodka and I knew that she was hiding her drinking from me. I told her that now was the time to just get all of this stuff off of her chest and out in the open. (Again, I was very calm and tried to sound safe so that she would be comfortable talking to me.)

After more denials, as we lay in silence, she finally opened up and told me she had a drink. She also finally admitted to hiding and drinking vodka. She tried to tell me that I was going to think the worst about the situation and that it isn't as bad as I am going to make it out to be in my head.

Now, I have known for a few weeks that she has been drinking and trying to hide it. I can tell when I get home from work - she is slurring her words, stumbling, easily gets agitated, etc. She is never the "numb" or "black out drunk" that I have read about on these forums, but drunk is drunk.

So once again we woke up this morning and she was crying and absolutely ashamed of herself. She kept asking me this morning if I was going to leave her. I told her that I was absolutely not going to leave her, but that this whole situation has gotten WAY out of hand and that something needs to change, or we are not going to go down a very good road.

Her mom and dad drink every night. They have a terrible relationship, her mom treats her dad the EXACT way she treats me. Her sister and husband drink every night and don't have the best relationship either. My wife grew up in an environment of drinking, verbal abuse, dad cheating on mom, a total lack of honesty within the family, and so on. I am worried that this issue is a VERY deep problem that is the result of living in a very dysfunctional environment.

I feel helpless.
I know that we are going to go right back through the cycle.
I have no idea how I am going to trust her.
I am terrified that this is going to get worse and eventually we are going to have kids and that all of this is going to get so wrapped up in a humongous ball of complication.
I wonder if there was something I could have done along the way to prevent this.
I wonder most of all how this can be fixed.

doggonecarl

Welcome to SR. Sorry for what brings you here. I'm the alcoholic in my marriage.

Wow, what a mess. The cycle you describe will continue, and it will get worse, and nothing you can do can change it. Only she can change things by deciding that she's got a serious problem and will do whatever it takes to quit drinking. Her problem won't be resolved by feeling terrible or "promising" that it won't happen again.

What you can do is work on you. That's all you can control.

If you are determined to stay with her, buckle up for a rough ride. However, staying is your choice. Don't bring children into this chaos. They don't have a choice and deserve a sober mom and a stable environment.

LexieCat

No, there is nothing you did to CAUSE it, you cannot CONTROL it, and you cannot CURE it.

I understand your wanting to reassure her that you care, but I would be careful about promising you will stay no matter what. Do you want to be living this way five years from now? Ten? Do you hope to ever have children? Do you want your children to grow up with an alcoholic, irrational mother?

Until she has decided SHE has had enough, she won't quit drinking. I strongly suggest you get to Al-Anon. You don't have to decide anything today, but you owe it to yourself and your own future to take good care of yourself.

m1k3

You should because you are, but surprisingly it's not a bad place to be when it leads to a moment of clarity like this.

Yeap, again and again and again. Nothing will change until one of you gets off the merry-go-round.

You can't. Active Alcoholics lie, all of them.

It is going to get worse. Alcoholism is progressive and no matter how bad you thing you have it, it will get worse.
And never have kids with an active alcoholic, never.

Nope, one of the biggest lessons I learned here was: I didn't cause it, I can't control it and I can't cure it. It's known as the 3 C's.

There is NOTHING you can do to fix this. It isn't your problem to solve, it is hers. You don't have any control or say in it. Her drinking, her problem, her solution.

I know these aren't the answers you wanted to hear but there is something you can do. You can start working on yourself. Alcoholism has a terrible impact on the partners and families of alcoholics as well. While there is nothing you can do to impact her recovery there is lot's you can do for yours. Please consider attending Al-Anon. I know it was a life saver for me.

And keep reading and posting here. There is tons of wisdom to be found here and it is a great place to vent. It really helps when you are "talking" to someone who understands.

Your friend,

Tuffgirl

welcome, bill.

If you have been reading here already, I hope you are paying attention to the statements that we - the loved ones of alcoholics - don't control this, can't cure it, and didn't cause it to begin with. If you can accept this, you are already ahead of the game.

She drinks because she has to. It's a compulsion, an obsession. It's not as simple as "just stop drinking". If it was, she'd have done that already, don't you think?

I recommend you read "Under the Influence". It explains the physiology and psychology of alcoholism very well.

And then come back here, read your post above, and maybe you might realize you are in a much bigger mess than you think today. And this is not a good time to be thinking of having children, either. I'd caution you to think about anything related to your dream future with her until she has made come steps in the direction of a solid recovery.

Peace,
~T

Florence

Hi and welcome. I'm struck by how much your wife's drinking pattern mirrors the "cycle of abuse" diagrams I've seen.

It is a very deep issue. You are right to be worried. From personal experience, once you're in the vodka-hiding, I-only-had-two-drinks, it's-not-as-bad-as-it-looks, it-will-never-happen-again-until-it-happens-again territory, you're already in bad territory. It's time to put your big life decisions on hold -- especially the ones that require ANYTHING of your wife, as a partner, a mother, and a wage earner. Find out everything you can about addiction and codependency, alcoholism, and what TRUE recovery looks like. Do this regardless of what your wife chooses to do with her life. Learn to detach from her using words and using behaviors. Learn to set aside your feelings about your wife and what you want together, in favor of making decisions based on facts about your wife and what you can reasonably expect from her as an active alcoholic.

billp

All,

Thank you very much for your responses.

You have all said the things that I dread hearing, but I know are true.

Just to clarify, I have ABSOLUTELY NO intention of having children with my wife any time soon at all. Regardless of this situation we both decided we wanted to wait a few years.

Now with all of this going on, I really don't know what that future will look like at all. There is no way at all I would ever subject a child to this type of environment.


It seems like the information I seeing from you guys is that I am basically supposed to treat my wife's problem as her own issue that she needs to figure out for herself? Disconnect myself from her? How can I expect to build a marriage like this? I am so confused by all of this.

I feel like I knew there was a problem, but now I am starting to reflect on so many more things. I am now seeing that this has been much more serious than I think I was willing to believe. It's just crazy that this is happening.

DreamsofSerenity

Hi Bill,

Welcome to SR. It is an amazing and supportive community, and we are all glad you are here.

You have already received wonderful advice so I'm just going to reiterate the most important thing everyone else already said: please do not, under any circumstances, have children with an active alcoholic. You will sentence them and yourself to a life of literal hell.

Unfortunately you are in an extremely difficult and serious position. The positive part of it is that you get to work on yourself now, and through that work you will become a stronger and wiser person. This strength and wisdom will support you through rough times for the rest of your life. So this really is a powerful opportunity for growth for you, and for your wife as well, if she chooses it.

Again, welcome!

Florence

I'm familiar with this. Sometimes I'm still amazed that this is my life, you know?

What I can say from experience is that a lot of us do everything in our power to try to convince the addict that it's worthwhile to quit using. We will try everything. Most of us won't feel good about ourselves until we've tried everything. At the same time, that means signing ourselves up for a lot of confusion and disappointment. For me, it took me a long, long time to realize that my AH was still drinking and lying to my face, long after he declared his commitment to recovery. The depth of the lies is astounding.

Seems like the opposite of a good marriage, no? Yes, this is absolutely her issue. The best thing you can do for her is to stop saving her or letting her eke out of the consequences of her drinking. Don't do anything for her that a grown woman ought to be able to do for herself.

The big question is what you're willing to put up with in a marriage and for how long. Look at your wife's family of origin -- it's a good mirror. People are able to escape their FOO's dysfunction, but it requires a lifetime of work and commitment. Based on what you've said, it seems like her commitment to quit drinking is more about roping you into staying another day than it is about her desires and quality of relationships.

DreamsofSerenity

Sorry, our posts crossed. I am relieved there are no plans for children.

Tuffgirl

I emphasize with the awakening to the craziness of addictions. That was a lousy day when my eyes finally opened to the realities of my situation.

But think about the concept of building a marriage. It takes two people willing to embark on that together, as partners and allies. If one person is addicted to a substance, this person is neither your partner or ally. This person's focus and attention lies elsewhere - firmly planted on a bottle of vodka. By disconnecting (or a better word - detaching) you give her the respect and dignity of coming to her own conclusions and developing her own path to sobriety (or more drinking with now a failed marriage to deal with). She is a grown up, after all.

You can't control her or her drinking. So what can you control? You and your own choices. Sounds like you've got some thinking to do. And again, I recommend educating yourself to what alcoholism is and what it means for you as well as for her. Makes the tough choices easier to make when faced with them.

DreamsofSerenity

Unfortunately it is more serious than you thought, and it is crazy. Alcoholism is a TRAGIC disease. And to be honest, I do not think it is possible to work on a marriage with an active alcoholic. All you can work on is yourself. If you try to save her from this, you will become as sick as she is yourself.

I realize it all sounds so negative, but as I said before, you are going to come out of this a better person.

m1k3

This is so true and I speak from experience. I have been separated from my AW for 2 years now. I am in a good place but it was a lot of hard work over that time frame to get here. Even now I have a slip every now and then and wonder what if. Of course I know it will never work but still those thoughts pop up now and again. Not surprising as we were married for 36 years before I left.

There are plenty of others here who will tell you the same time of story.

Your friend,

billp

Sorry to ask so many questions but how in the world am I supposed to approach this with her now?

As of last night, the cat is really out of the proverbial bag. Tonight I am going to the Alanon meeting by my work to see what it is all about. Do I tell my wife? What do I say when she comes home from work and wants to address all of this? How do I tell her how I feel? Do I tell her how I feel? Am I supposed to tell her any kind of expectation, or do I just say mum and let her figure it out?

FireSprite

Hi Bill, sorry you had a need for this board, but glad you've found us.

You've already gotten amazing advice, but I'll chime in in response to the part I quoted above.

Yes, you are basically supposed to treat this as HER problem, because it IS her problem. You are affected as collateral damage, but have no way of controlling or curing the root of the problem.

We call it detaching around here, and by that we mean a method of emotionally distancing yourself from the addict in your life in order to not get sucked more deeply into the disease with them. What happens to us "codies" is that we get wrapped up in trying to fix the addict's behavior & then we find that often our own behavior changes & we become slaves to the disease without the physical addiction. We end up doing so many things that we don't want to -getting drawn into arguments, making excuses for our A's to family & friends, checking cell phone & credit card records, tracking the circle of bad behavior (looks like you already reached this stage based on your 1st post), start giving in to suspicion & paranoia, making ultimatums we don't fully back up. In some ways, we become sicker than the addict. We slowly end up isolating ourselves away from healthy relationships until we're stranded with the one person we love most but (by that point) trust the least and we start to lose the ability to tell healthy from unhealthy relationships & everything just becomes about getting through each incident day to day..... sounds like you've already seen all the classic signs of this in your wife's FOO.

How can you expect to build a marriage like this? You can't, really, in the traditional way of thinking. But then again, you can't build a marriage around active alcoholism either.

BlueSkies1

Yes, go ahead and tell her you are going to alanon. It will be good for her to see that you are going to start changing your reaction to things. It will be good that you let her know that you are acknowledging she has a problem, even if she only acknowledges herself the mornings after, and then goes right back to her denial. If she attacks you about it, gently tell her that alanon is for people who have a relationship with someone who has a drinking problem, and that it is for you, and about you, not so much her. Notice I said drinking problem. This is because she may successfully go months even without and then the behavior could repeat.
Alcohol is a poison and changes people's thinking dramatically. As a non-alcoholic, I can tell you that it has been a learning experience to know how much and when to drink, and how to not let my personality change too much while under the influence. This is true for all of us, alcoholic or not. She may or may not be alcoholic, but she sure hasn't learned how to drink responsibly if she is not.
Is she alcoholic? Don't even get into this discussion with her. It doesn't matter. What matters is that she drinks, she becomes very abusive when drunk, it hurts you, and the cycle repeats.
Let me also say I am glad you are a husband, not a wife. As abusive as she sounds, it is good that she is probably not as physically strong as you are, seeing how verbal abuse usually escalates to physical abuse.

Btw, for you to know, not all those that use/abuse alcohol are mean drunks. She is a very mean drunk.
I suggest that you take yourself out of those scenarios. If you can get away from her on those evenings, do so. Leave the house. Stay with a friend. Get a hotel. Anywhere but where she is when she is a raving drunk.
And that pretty much goes the same for the next morning. If she wants to apologize, tell her that you're not interested in continuing this cycle, and that she needs to DO SOMETHING to change her behavior, and that these apologies aren't going to cut it. Don't listen to them anymore than you would listen to her rages. Isolate yourself from both of them.
The message to her is that you no longer want to be a part of her drunken behavior, and that includes her false apologies the next morning. Do you call them false to her? Absolutely not. Let's just keep that knowledge between you and alanon and us here, and not give her any ammunition to say things like that you are unforgiving. Try not to give her any ammunition at all. Do everything in your power for her to see that it is indeed her problem, and that you want no part of it except to be supportive in that she gets help.
Can you suggest any of the programs to help her with her problem? There are several. But beyond giving her a stack of brochures, I would tell her that she has to realize that this is within her control, and out of yours, and that you fully realize that you don't control her, only yourself. You could also suggest an addiction counselor.
Don't check up on liquor bottles. You'll just drive yourself insane. You know when she's acting different, and that's all you need to know to know to pull back from her during those times she seems intoxicated.
I am very glad to hear that you are going to hold off on the child-rearing. Do what you have to do to make sure there are no oopsies during this time.
I wouldn't promise someone that I wasn't going to leave them. If it gets too painful to stay, you will have broken a promise.

honeypig

Good for you for getting yourself to an Alanon meeting! Here's a link from the stickied posts at the top of the page about what to expect at Alanon. http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ings-like.html

I don't think you have to say a lot to your wife; perhaps just say that you're concerned about her drinking and you're going to Alanon to get some help for yourself. I'd keep it as simple and clear as possible, no need for a big drawn-out discussion at this point. You'll know more after your meeting and have a better idea of how to deal with things.

Please do post after the meeting and tell us how it went.

atalose

At this point there is no reason to explain you went to an al-anon meeting. First you need to address the issues and I suggest you use the word “I” and “me”often…

I feel your drinking __________________

Your drinking makes “me” ___________________________

Prepare yourself that she will become extremely defensive and combative. Denial is such a strong element with addictions.

I think you really need to think about what your own boundaries are, what are you NOT willing to put up with anymore and how you will go about NOT putting up with what ever it is you set for yourself.

Tuffgirl

Shoot - if this were me, I'd give myself some time to simply be in shock that I married an alcoholic to begin with. And I'd give her some time to think about her own behavior. Silence is action, too, ya know.

I think its easy to jump into the "apologies & promises" conversation. I know I did. Now I wish I had taken some time to allow the shock to wear off, so I wouldn't have been so easily inclined to believe the apologies & promises. Then I wouldn't have been so shocked after a couple of months to find he was right back to the same old same old.

grizz

Bill,
You are still a young man and have your life ahead of you. I know that are not supposed to on this site, but I would say cut your losses and RUN!!! However, Blueskies gave you some amazing counsel and you can run with that as well. I have been married 29 years and have been in this nightmare 6. It is my choice to stay at this point in time. But if I would have known at your age what I know now, my life would be completely different. The only saving grace I have right now is my 4 amazing children. They are your age and there is no way that I would wish on any of them what you are going through. That being said Bill, as the others have said Do not bring children into this hell of yours. At least your wife remebers what happened. My wife is blacked out 90% of the time so when I used to talk to her about it she would look at me like I am crazy.


grizz