"No More Letting Go"!?
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One of the most difficult and humbling things I learned about myself is that my desire to "help" came from a very self-righteous place. For years, even decades, I treated my AH as though he was incompetent, bordering on helpless. No surprise that the more I treated him like a child, the more he behaved like one. I had to get out of the role of "mother" before he could grow up and get out of the role of "child." All my telling him what to do, showing him how, presenting the "proper" choices, perpetuated this extremely unhealthy dynamic.
Separating and divorcing was without a doubt the most agonizing decision I have ever had to make. But, I recognized that being married to him was not only making me sicker, it was making him sicker as well.
L
Separating and divorcing was without a doubt the most agonizing decision I have ever had to make. But, I recognized that being married to him was not only making me sicker, it was making him sicker as well.
L
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I'm an RA and I still feel an A won't take advantage of recovery until THEY are ready. Yes, there are times that forced, or strongly-encouraged, treatment gets them to that point, but I'm also surrounded by A's, and it doesn't always happen.
As far as the disease concept, yes I believe that. However, as a grown adult I get to decide whether I want to treat my disease or not (I do). My dad has high blood pressure, borderline diabetes and was diagnosed with congestive heart failure because he is noncompliant with his medication.
I can't force him to take care of himself any more than he could force me into treatment when I was using. The DOCTOR couldn't force him to take medicines, even after he told him "if you had listened to your daughter and done what she said all along, you wouldn't BE here".
I was an RN for 12 years, and a raging codie. I couldn't save every patient, and I can't save every addict, but I can darned sure be a role model and support for those who DO want help.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
As far as the disease concept, yes I believe that. However, as a grown adult I get to decide whether I want to treat my disease or not (I do). My dad has high blood pressure, borderline diabetes and was diagnosed with congestive heart failure because he is noncompliant with his medication.
I can't force him to take care of himself any more than he could force me into treatment when I was using. The DOCTOR couldn't force him to take medicines, even after he told him "if you had listened to your daughter and done what she said all along, you wouldn't BE here".
I was an RN for 12 years, and a raging codie. I couldn't save every patient, and I can't save every addict, but I can darned sure be a role model and support for those who DO want help.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
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Lillamy, I'm so sorry to hear of the horrible life you led. It is so tragic. I don't excuse abuse, ever.
I'm simply quoting from a book on intervention. My mind is open to all avenues, including this one. Read it, see what you think. You'd have to read the book to get the full picture of what she and others are saying.
They're not saying that we can cause addiction, or cure addiction. They're simply pointing to a possible different way to approach addiction for families. Let's face it, it is a baffling, confusing, mind-field. I hope that as science and medicine advances new ways to treat it become available and that will include the families. It has to. We are their only life-line. And if a new approach is healthier, the family is going to need to adjust as well. But that applies to all kinds of inter-personal issues in life. We're all hopefully working to improve, grow, heal and mostly change ourselves. It's not just the other guy who needs to change . . . right?
And yes, I'll be first to say - my husband is different. I endured some pretty heavy junk in those few years at the height of his addiction - but I left. My boundary was > sobriety and treatment. He got both.
I'm a big believer in "redemption", in humans ability to change, evolve and grow. To heal an addiction, to change a marriage, to evolve a child-parent relationship. In our decision to leave an unhealthy life. But also in our choice to heal ourselves and find peace as opposed to choosing to stay mired in bitterness and anger. It's no one else's fault when we stay stuck in anger and rage. The initial feeling may not be a choice but staying there - is. We've chosen to stay angry. For whatever reason. The only one we imprison is ourselves. Addiction didn't do that.
I'm simply quoting from a book on intervention. My mind is open to all avenues, including this one. Read it, see what you think. You'd have to read the book to get the full picture of what she and others are saying.
They're not saying that we can cause addiction, or cure addiction. They're simply pointing to a possible different way to approach addiction for families. Let's face it, it is a baffling, confusing, mind-field. I hope that as science and medicine advances new ways to treat it become available and that will include the families. It has to. We are their only life-line. And if a new approach is healthier, the family is going to need to adjust as well. But that applies to all kinds of inter-personal issues in life. We're all hopefully working to improve, grow, heal and mostly change ourselves. It's not just the other guy who needs to change . . . right?
And yes, I'll be first to say - my husband is different. I endured some pretty heavy junk in those few years at the height of his addiction - but I left. My boundary was > sobriety and treatment. He got both.
I'm a big believer in "redemption", in humans ability to change, evolve and grow. To heal an addiction, to change a marriage, to evolve a child-parent relationship. In our decision to leave an unhealthy life. But also in our choice to heal ourselves and find peace as opposed to choosing to stay mired in bitterness and anger. It's no one else's fault when we stay stuck in anger and rage. The initial feeling may not be a choice but staying there - is. We've chosen to stay angry. For whatever reason. The only one we imprison is ourselves. Addiction didn't do that.
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Originally Posted by WishingWell 
We are their only life-line.
This world is full of resources for anyone and everyone seeking to make changes. All one has to do anymore is Google it, or pick up the phone.
Wishingwell, I to find some of your sentences on the offensive side, and I am trying not to react negatively, because I understand it is so easy to misinterpret things on a chat board. But you use a lot of "we" in your writing. Who are you referring to when you say "we"? Because if it is a general collective of family members who deal with or have dealt with addictions in the past, I don't think you will find consensus.
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Vicki, thoughts . . .
No More Letting Go - refers to the second book > Get Your Loved One Sober: Alternatives to Nagging, Pleading, and Threatening. She refers to that method, it's called CRAFT (Community Reinforcement And Family Training) as a form of intervention. One path to take. She writes about EIGHT different types of intervention.
Get Your Loved One Sober writes mostly about this one form. CRAFT offers a very different mindset for us, the family / friend. It doesn't focus as much on PUNISHMENT, BANISHMENT, THREATS. It focus's on behavior. Shining a light. Making healthy behavior rewarding. I think this idea is useful in life, period. It changes our fear - to action. To a new approach. We as a society tend to follow one ideal until it no longer works then slowly, very slowly new ideas take hold and society changes.
And really, for those right now mired in a loved one's addiction - what's the fear of exploring a new way? And for those who are already out, but haven't read either book - you can't judge the approaches if you haven't read the books or tried it. And again, what's the fear of possibly opening our minds to the thought that there might be a more healthy, more effective approach? That doesn't mean anyone is wrong only that research is evolving. Thank God.
I would hope IF there are better ways, the community of those who have suffered through a loved ones addiction would APPLAUD it, not feel personally attacked by it.
Just food for thought . . . don't we want to explore new ideas? Can't we all admit the old ones are not very effective? Wouldn't that prompt us to change?
No More Letting Go - refers to the second book > Get Your Loved One Sober: Alternatives to Nagging, Pleading, and Threatening. She refers to that method, it's called CRAFT (Community Reinforcement And Family Training) as a form of intervention. One path to take. She writes about EIGHT different types of intervention.
Get Your Loved One Sober writes mostly about this one form. CRAFT offers a very different mindset for us, the family / friend. It doesn't focus as much on PUNISHMENT, BANISHMENT, THREATS. It focus's on behavior. Shining a light. Making healthy behavior rewarding. I think this idea is useful in life, period. It changes our fear - to action. To a new approach. We as a society tend to follow one ideal until it no longer works then slowly, very slowly new ideas take hold and society changes.
And really, for those right now mired in a loved one's addiction - what's the fear of exploring a new way? And for those who are already out, but haven't read either book - you can't judge the approaches if you haven't read the books or tried it. And again, what's the fear of possibly opening our minds to the thought that there might be a more healthy, more effective approach? That doesn't mean anyone is wrong only that research is evolving. Thank God.
I would hope IF there are better ways, the community of those who have suffered through a loved ones addiction would APPLAUD it, not feel personally attacked by it.
Just food for thought . . . don't we want to explore new ideas? Can't we all admit the old ones are not very effective? Wouldn't that prompt us to change?
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((WW)) - I'm going on 6 years in recovery. I live with my dad and stepmom because of my consequences.
My stepmom takes everything she can get her hands on to get numb. My dad has become a raging codie who, one day raises hell about her being f'd up, the next takes her to get refills.
Neither of them WANT help. Sorry, but I've read a ton of books, and the only thing that helps ME is to detach and work MY recovery.
FWIW, I turned to drugs in the first place because I couldn't handle the fact that I couldn't help the A I was in love with after 20 years of trying. Twenty more years later, he's still drinking from what I've heard.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
My stepmom takes everything she can get her hands on to get numb. My dad has become a raging codie who, one day raises hell about her being f'd up, the next takes her to get refills.
Neither of them WANT help. Sorry, but I've read a ton of books, and the only thing that helps ME is to detach and work MY recovery.
FWIW, I turned to drugs in the first place because I couldn't handle the fact that I couldn't help the A I was in love with after 20 years of trying. Twenty more years later, he's still drinking from what I've heard.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
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TuffGirl, you're right - I'll use "I" more. That's a valid point and I apologize. Nothing is meant as an individual criticism against anyone. But I have to say, I see the same small group of posters, mostly those who are already OUT of their addicted relationship take offense at new ideas or approaches time and again. Take the idea of a different approach very personally. It makes it very nerve wracking to even mention a new way. As I'm willing to look at how I come across - I hope others will too. And I say that with kindness. It's the only way we grow.
I hope new people coming on here, will be able to hear about a lot of ideas and approaches. Not simply about all the ones that didn't work and ended in disaster. I think that's fair.
I have a different opinion about life-lines, I really do think that the people who love us, who care about us, who are vested in us ARE our primary lifeline. Sure, we can do it on our own and many have, but without love, without someone who gives a damn - it's extremely difficult. When we are in the grips of a disease - how many casual friends or acquaintances will help? I don't know, not many from my experience. But I bless those who have.
I hope new people coming on here, will be able to hear about a lot of ideas and approaches. Not simply about all the ones that didn't work and ended in disaster. I think that's fair.
I have a different opinion about life-lines, I really do think that the people who love us, who care about us, who are vested in us ARE our primary lifeline. Sure, we can do it on our own and many have, but without love, without someone who gives a damn - it's extremely difficult. When we are in the grips of a disease - how many casual friends or acquaintances will help? I don't know, not many from my experience. But I bless those who have.
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Here is a link to the CRAFT method that is used in the HBO Documentary series "Addiction". Very interesting!
HBO: Addiction: Treatment: Getting Someone into Treatment: CRAFT: An Alternative to Intervention
From the site>
FIVE THINGS TO KNOW ABOUT CRAFT
1. CRAFT is a motivational model of help based on research that consistently finds motivational treatments to be superior to confrontational ones.
2. More than two-thirds of family members who use CRAFT successfully engage their substance using loved ones in treatment.
3. Evidence suggests that substance users who are pushed into treatment by a traditional confrontational intervention are more likely to relapse than clients who are encouraged into treatment with less confrontational means.
4. Family members who use CRAFT experience greater improvements in their emotional and physical health than do those who use confrontational methods to try to help their loved ones.
5. People who use CRAFT are more likely to see the process through to success than those who use confrontational methods.
HBO: Addiction: Treatment: Getting Someone into Treatment: CRAFT: An Alternative to Intervention
From the site>
FIVE THINGS TO KNOW ABOUT CRAFT
1. CRAFT is a motivational model of help based on research that consistently finds motivational treatments to be superior to confrontational ones.
2. More than two-thirds of family members who use CRAFT successfully engage their substance using loved ones in treatment.
3. Evidence suggests that substance users who are pushed into treatment by a traditional confrontational intervention are more likely to relapse than clients who are encouraged into treatment with less confrontational means.
4. Family members who use CRAFT experience greater improvements in their emotional and physical health than do those who use confrontational methods to try to help their loved ones.
5. People who use CRAFT are more likely to see the process through to success than those who use confrontational methods.
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Vicki - this is it . . .
I think the next question becomes is there something I can do to make this situation better. And sometimes there is. The methods in GYLOS have been studied pretty extensively.
It took my brother a year and a half to get into treatment from our first conversation about it. And it was kind of a crazy ride. He'd reach out for help but then back off. He finally committed and has been sober for 6 years.
If your family had not opened their minds to a new approach, had not taken on the role of a "life-line" - the chances are, he wouldn't have made it. Will all make it? No. But for those who can it's worth trying, isn't it?
The successes are not talked about enough IMO.
I think the next question becomes is there something I can do to make this situation better. And sometimes there is. The methods in GYLOS have been studied pretty extensively.
It took my brother a year and a half to get into treatment from our first conversation about it. And it was kind of a crazy ride. He'd reach out for help but then back off. He finally committed and has been sober for 6 years.
If your family had not opened their minds to a new approach, had not taken on the role of a "life-line" - the chances are, he wouldn't have made it. Will all make it? No. But for those who can it's worth trying, isn't it?
The successes are not talked about enough IMO.
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Debra Jay's book is not new; she wrote it in 2006. I read it two years ago.
It's not that no one wants to hear "new" ideas. It's just that a number of folks simply disagree with Debra Jay's methods. My now ex husband being one of them. He found that stuff intrusive and disrespectful to him as a man, a person. He thought I was trying to "save" him, and he didn't take kindly to that at all.
That's how I can say in my first post on this thread - I tried it and it didn't work. I tired everything and nothing worked. Why? Because he is a human being who can make his own decisions, regardless of how bad they may be or how detrimental to his family they may be.
And keep in mind, this is a primarily Al-Anon based forum and Debra Jay's methods don't fit well into the 12 step model of allowing addicts to have the dignity to fix their messes themselves (or not).
And lastly - you are making a lot of assumptions that people wouldn't have made it without said interventions. I also find that to be a bit of magical thinking. No one can say what would have happened if...
And many people don't make it, no matter how much rehab, AA, interventions, bribes, pleas, consequences they have. Some people drink themselves to death. Even if they have strong and solid life-lines.
Said IMHO,
~T
It's not that no one wants to hear "new" ideas. It's just that a number of folks simply disagree with Debra Jay's methods. My now ex husband being one of them. He found that stuff intrusive and disrespectful to him as a man, a person. He thought I was trying to "save" him, and he didn't take kindly to that at all.
That's how I can say in my first post on this thread - I tried it and it didn't work. I tired everything and nothing worked. Why? Because he is a human being who can make his own decisions, regardless of how bad they may be or how detrimental to his family they may be.
And keep in mind, this is a primarily Al-Anon based forum and Debra Jay's methods don't fit well into the 12 step model of allowing addicts to have the dignity to fix their messes themselves (or not).
And lastly - you are making a lot of assumptions that people wouldn't have made it without said interventions. I also find that to be a bit of magical thinking. No one can say what would have happened if...
And many people don't make it, no matter how much rehab, AA, interventions, bribes, pleas, consequences they have. Some people drink themselves to death. Even if they have strong and solid life-lines.
Said IMHO,
~T
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2006 IS new. It's 6 years old as compared to the thousands and thousands of years people have been dealing with addiction. It's brand new and most people have yet to even hear about it.
Why is this primarily an Al-Anon forum? I thought this was primarily a forum for Sober Recovery. Of course Al-Anon is the largest and oldest method which might make it the dominant mind-set. But not always the only one.
I never said this method is for everyone OR the only way, you're reading words that aren't here. In fact here are MY words here:
It's a very delicate dance. And nothing works for everyone.
It was false hope for - you. I get that and understand. Many didn't find success.
It's a monster of a disease of that there is NO doubt.
My mind is open to all avenues, including this one.
I hope new people coming on here, will be able to hear about a lot of ideas and approaches. I really wonder about the massive push-back to even mentioning a different approach for those who haven't heard about it or tried it.
Don't they also deserve to hear about it and try it for themselves?
Why is this primarily an Al-Anon forum? I thought this was primarily a forum for Sober Recovery. Of course Al-Anon is the largest and oldest method which might make it the dominant mind-set. But not always the only one.
I never said this method is for everyone OR the only way, you're reading words that aren't here. In fact here are MY words here:
It's a very delicate dance. And nothing works for everyone.
It was false hope for - you. I get that and understand. Many didn't find success.
It's a monster of a disease of that there is NO doubt.
My mind is open to all avenues, including this one.
I hope new people coming on here, will be able to hear about a lot of ideas and approaches. I really wonder about the massive push-back to even mentioning a different approach for those who haven't heard about it or tried it.
Don't they also deserve to hear about it and try it for themselves?
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BTW
"It's just that a number of folks simply disagree with Debra Jay's methods. "
I never said Debra Jay's methods have to be agreed with. I wrote it was "food for thought". She refers to 8 different types of interventions that are not "her" methods but other organizations.
CRAFT, for instance, has nothing to do with Debra Jay.
Why is mentioning this so difficult?
"It's just that a number of folks simply disagree with Debra Jay's methods. "
I never said Debra Jay's methods have to be agreed with. I wrote it was "food for thought". She refers to 8 different types of interventions that are not "her" methods but other organizations.
CRAFT, for instance, has nothing to do with Debra Jay.
Why is mentioning this so difficult?
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12 step based recovery forum- for families, relatives, and friends whose lives have been affected by someone else's drinking. If someone close to you, such as a family member, friend, co-worker, or neighbor, has or has had a drinking problem you'll find support here.
This wording is under the link on the SR home page.
Wishingwell, this is nothing personal here, and I am not arguing with your right to share information. I am just saying that there is not consensus with Ms. Jay's methods, they tend to be exactly what many longer-standing and evidence-based models don't promote.
And I am sharing my experience that is did not work for me, and why that was.
For what its worth, I liked the book, a lot. But I havent' had any luck with her methods - and my ex husband is not the only alcoholic in my life, either.
This wording is under the link on the SR home page.
Wishingwell, this is nothing personal here, and I am not arguing with your right to share information. I am just saying that there is not consensus with Ms. Jay's methods, they tend to be exactly what many longer-standing and evidence-based models don't promote.
And I am sharing my experience that is did not work for me, and why that was.
For what its worth, I liked the book, a lot. But I havent' had any luck with her methods - and my ex husband is not the only alcoholic in my life, either.
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I'm sorry TuffGirl, no offense, but you're simply not hearing me or reading what I've written. I don't know why but I'll leave it at that.
If you look at the forums here, there are many avenues mentioned here. The other point, that is not being heard or comprehended - NONE of these books discount 12-Step methods. IN FACT - they are all about encouraging addicts to get into TREATMENT. The majority of treatment centers use 12 - step programs.
I'll leave this conversation with you at that and look forward to reading everyone's thoughts on this wonderful forum!
If you look at the forums here, there are many avenues mentioned here. The other point, that is not being heard or comprehended - NONE of these books discount 12-Step methods. IN FACT - they are all about encouraging addicts to get into TREATMENT. The majority of treatment centers use 12 - step programs.
I'll leave this conversation with you at that and look forward to reading everyone's thoughts on this wonderful forum!
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The Get Your Loved One Sober approach of R. Meyers and B. Wolfe that WishingWell has been talking about is called the Community Reinforcement And Family Training (CRAFT) approach. It is one of many components in the current continuum of addiction care in this country (see next post).
Here is a quote about CRAFT from Chapter 62 "Family Involvement in Addiction, Treatment and Recovery" in Principles of Addiction Medicine, Fourth Edition (2009), the leading treatise of the American Society of Addiction Medicine:
Half of Chapter 57 in that treatise is devoted to CRAFT.
Some alcoholics and addicts get no care and do not recover. Some loner As quit with only AA/NA. At the other end of the spectrum are ones who recover having the full backing of their families and the full range of addiction care.
Here is a quote about CRAFT from Chapter 62 "Family Involvement in Addiction, Treatment and Recovery" in Principles of Addiction Medicine, Fourth Edition (2009), the leading treatise of the American Society of Addiction Medicine:
"When the addicted person refuses any involvement in formal treatment, there is unilateral family therapy (56) and community reinforcement and family training (57-59), which trains concerned significant others (CSOs) to positively reinforce abstinence, reduced substance use, and recovery behaviors while negatively reinforcing continuing substance abuse.
The community reinforcement and family training procedure when tested in a randomized controlled trial with 130 CSOs of alcoholics found that 64% of their index patients engaged in alcoholism treatment, whereas the Johnson Institute Intervention engaged only 30% and Al-Anon facilitation only 13% (58). These results reflect the dominant themes of Al-Anon: disengage from alcoholic behavior (stop enabling); abandon hope of influencing the drinking behavior; take care of yourself." Page 863 (numbers in parentheses are footnote numbers).
The 12-session CRAFT approach PLUS weekly group "booster sessions" can increase the rate of engagement of unmotivated addicts to 76.7%. Chapter 25, page 366.The community reinforcement and family training procedure when tested in a randomized controlled trial with 130 CSOs of alcoholics found that 64% of their index patients engaged in alcoholism treatment, whereas the Johnson Institute Intervention engaged only 30% and Al-Anon facilitation only 13% (58). These results reflect the dominant themes of Al-Anon: disengage from alcoholic behavior (stop enabling); abandon hope of influencing the drinking behavior; take care of yourself." Page 863 (numbers in parentheses are footnote numbers).
Half of Chapter 57 in that treatise is devoted to CRAFT.
Some alcoholics and addicts get no care and do not recover. Some loner As quit with only AA/NA. At the other end of the spectrum are ones who recover having the full backing of their families and the full range of addiction care.
Meta-analyses and reviews of studies on family oriented treatment approaches have shown superior rates of engagement, treatment outcome, and participation in aftercare when compared with individual oriented care (63-66). The evidence fro the Stanton and Shadish (66) meta-analysis of 1,571 cases involving an estimated 3,500 patients and family members favored family therapy over individual counseling or therapy, peer group therapy, and family psychoeducation. It was effective for adolescents and adults. It can also enhance methadone maintenance and other medication assisted treatments. It promtes higher treatment retention, which improves outcome." Chapter 62, page 864.
Regardless of the care modalities employed (or not), a certain percentage of alcoholics and addicts will not sustain recovery. And domestic abuse and violence severely restricts the available avenues of care.
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From Principles of Addiction Medicine, Fourth Edition, Chapter 25, Figure 25.2, page 365:
Addiction Care Continuum.jpg
TSF = Twelve Step Facilitation approach
Ideally, of course, care ought to be custom-tailored to each individual and his or her condition and situation.
Addiction Care Continuum.jpg
TSF = Twelve Step Facilitation approach
Ideally, of course, care ought to be custom-tailored to each individual and his or her condition and situation.
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WW I am very interested in CRAFT. Perhaps it was you that suggested The HBO series on another forum recently? I have been watching it and really agreed with a lot of what was said.
I will look more into this I wasn't aware of it. Thanks for suggesting it.
I will look more into this I wasn't aware of it. Thanks for suggesting it.
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WW-
I need to put a caveat in this that I have really gotten a big awakening that detachment does not mean that I have not been impacted. Some of my thoughts on this are in response to the definition of detachment.
I am struggling reading this post not with the idea presented (and I loved the Addiction series on HBO), but on the failure I felt when it did not work for my loved one to get help.
I met and married my own A while I was healing from my own addictive process. I spent a lot of the time after I realized alcohol was in our marriage taking on all the problems and attempting to create a situation for help (I am not trying to say that I did it well, perfectly or according to CRAFT standards).
I think I am curious and asking, what happens if it does not work to the loved ones? I have not read the book and am just curious. Honestly this might have sent me into a downward spiral, if I had followed recommendations to the best of my ability and still had not seen "success." I am afraid it would have added one more thing to the weight of the world.
I will look into the book too. Thanks
I need to put a caveat in this that I have really gotten a big awakening that detachment does not mean that I have not been impacted. Some of my thoughts on this are in response to the definition of detachment.
I am struggling reading this post not with the idea presented (and I loved the Addiction series on HBO), but on the failure I felt when it did not work for my loved one to get help.
I met and married my own A while I was healing from my own addictive process. I spent a lot of the time after I realized alcohol was in our marriage taking on all the problems and attempting to create a situation for help (I am not trying to say that I did it well, perfectly or according to CRAFT standards).
I think I am curious and asking, what happens if it does not work to the loved ones? I have not read the book and am just curious. Honestly this might have sent me into a downward spiral, if I had followed recommendations to the best of my ability and still had not seen "success." I am afraid it would have added one more thing to the weight of the world.
I will look into the book too. Thanks
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Look...
...there's room for more than one kind of recovery. Each does not work for everybody and I'm all for whatever works for any given person. That said, this is a 12-Step forum so nobody should be surprised, when they talk about another form of recovery, that the parts of it inconsistent with the 12 steps are challenged. CRAFT, to me, seems to consist of patronizing addicts, not holding them 100 percent accountable for their own lives and recovery and, oh by the way, I could be a little more codependent in the process (they can't do it without me!").
Also, I'm with TG when it comes to people including me in their "we." I have a lot in common with many people who post here, and a lot we don't share too. I've made many of these mistakes, but not all of them. I've tried many of these things, but not all of them. I've had the same results a lot fo the time, different results some of the times, and often don't even know exactly why something did or didn't work.
At this point, 14 years in, I know a lot about how to live effectively, most of the time, with a specific alcoholic/addict. You, doing the same things I did, may or may not get the same result with yours. That said, I believe if you go to Alanon and work the 12 steps your life will improve no matter what.
Bottom line? Speak for yourself, and keep trying things until you find something that works for you. Share it, but if you share it here and it flies in the face of 12 step recovery know it will be challenged.
Take care everybody.
Cyranoak
Also, I'm with TG when it comes to people including me in their "we." I have a lot in common with many people who post here, and a lot we don't share too. I've made many of these mistakes, but not all of them. I've tried many of these things, but not all of them. I've had the same results a lot fo the time, different results some of the times, and often don't even know exactly why something did or didn't work.
At this point, 14 years in, I know a lot about how to live effectively, most of the time, with a specific alcoholic/addict. You, doing the same things I did, may or may not get the same result with yours. That said, I believe if you go to Alanon and work the 12 steps your life will improve no matter what.
Bottom line? Speak for yourself, and keep trying things until you find something that works for you. Share it, but if you share it here and it flies in the face of 12 step recovery know it will be challenged.
Take care everybody.
Cyranoak
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