Learn2Live

Narcissists and sociopaths have no sympathy or empathy either.

soberlicious

People with AS can feel emotions, they may just not be what others would consider "appropriate" emotions for a given situation. Again, there are behaviors associated with the disorder, but it doesn't mean that all behaviors are exhibited in every person with AS. Using these behavior sets as absolutes are what leads to stereotyping and misunderstandings. Many different disorders manifest with the same behaviors.

Spot on.
Exactly. Generally, those with APD and those with AS have completely different agendas.

onlythetruth

Very true.

When my mother was first diagnosed, I did a ton of research and spent a lot of time on an online forum for the children of people with Asperger's. I learned a lot about the disorder and how it manifests.

One important thing is that AS is on the autism spectrum. It can be mild or more severe. And while there are some symptoms that are nearly universal among people with AS (such as passionate interests and difficulty understanding social cues) there is also a lot of variation. When I was part of that online support group, it was interesting how the behaviors of the different parents varied. Some, for example, were extremely rigid and authoritarian in their parenting, where my mother was the opposite--absent, off doing her thing.

Stereotypes tend to be very unhelpful in understanding AS. As they say "if you've seen one person with AS, you've seen one person with AS".

ricmcc

I happened to have bipolar disorder, which is well controlled by meds (when I take them as Rxed, not always the case in the past, hopefully so in the future. I am also a recovering alcoholic, which is relevant only in that people with mental health issues tend to have higher rates of addiction issues as well. Owning to the above, I happened to join a support group called Depression, Anxiety, and Manic Depression--the use of the term manic depression is to allow the group to continue using the acronym, DAMD, which gives you a general idea of the nature of the group; while aware of the serious nature of such problems, they (we) are also aware that life is enhanced by having a bit of a sense of fun, so the group tends to be composed of very likeable, highly functioning people who tend to take their problems seriously, while not taking themselves so seriously as to allow that to become a problem on its own, which does seem to happen quite often. The reason I write is post is mention 2 or 3 things. The first is to congratulate the both of you in dealing with divorce in such a positive, constructive manner, a feat not often accomlished for which the two of you are to be commended. The second point is that by chance I happen to feel very close to a guy in my group who suffers from the condition you discribe, and find him to be quite delightful if at times somewhat quirky, but on the other hand, I would find a world where all people were exactly alike to be immensely boring. Being an animal lover, I do not agree with his position on the elderly cat, but have no problem with his holding such a position--when I say that his position could logically be extended to humans (and many healthy people are as emotionally attached to their pets as they are to most people) as humans also have a finite life span, he may well agree. And just because he holds views that some consider cold to be quite valid as they are quite logical does not made him a bad person, just a person having a value system different then my own. Certain quirks in other people I accept on the grounds that I am quite sure that I possess traits that others may find quite quirky. At any rate, that is my bit, for what it is worth. All the best to youand again congrats on your obvious ability to see the other POV, while not neccessarily agreeing with it; it is much like the fact that some used to find Gary Larson absolutely hilarious, others found him utterly horrid--as my mom used to say, it is the diffences in opinion that make horseraces (Sorry to state the obvious, but in all this I do not at all mean that i condone self-destructive behaviours such as continuing in addictions or taking meds at a fraction of their Rx'ed amount, as I used to do) Once again, all the best---Rick

cli

Yeah, this is what I was thinking too. Although, in both Aspergers and sociopathy, feelings aren't absent. Feelings are very present, just not the feelings of others. It's the lack of empathy that's the problem.

Surely anyone who knew that the cat had belonged to your sister would understand the extra significance. I got a bit teary, imagining how your mother must feel... Surely to her, it's not "just a cat". And even if was, it was still a friend and companion to her for 2 whole decades!

My exRABF never understood my sentimentality about things. He smashed a drawing my dear college friend made for me, and thought I was merely upset about the expensive wooden frame. I'm not sure if it was the booze or if he was just a jerk, but it seems it's actually all pretty typical. Total emotional disconnect, and again, a shocking lack of empathy.

You really shouldn't need to argue and/or explain these things to someone with a healthy brain. Plain and simple.

soberlicious

I love this! It's so true. My son has autism. Moderate to severe on the spectrum, but not all of "how he is" is due to his neurological differences. It would be impossible to tease out what drives each of his behaviors/reactions/interactions/perceptions. It is easy to put the "autism twist" on everything he does, but I don't. Some of his behaviors have nothing to do with autism and everything to do with being a 15 year old male. LOL

cli

Rick, OMG, your support group sounds really cool. I'm all for injecting a bit of lightness and comedy into mental health issues. I'm a bit nuts-o as well, and the stigma annoys me to no end!

I get your point about charming quirkiness, but we're not talking about just one man's view about one cat. He wasn't merely indifferent to a cat. He was indifferent to a woman who is grieving the loss of said cat, and perhaps symbolically the loss of her daughter as well...

Have you ever been depressed and had someone tell you to grow a spine and just snap out of it? Yeah... Me too... That doesn't make them a bad person either, but it certainly puts them on the low-end of the human sensitivity scale.

"Quirkiness" is not an excuse to chastise others for feeling their perfectly valid emotions for perfectly valid reasons, it is indeed a lack of empathy and thus a symptom of mental illness. No stigma -- it's just the truth!

soberlicious

I agree, but valid emotions and valid reasons and valid responses are all very subjective.

Disorder or not, human reactions are based on many variables...culture, gender, personality traits, and on and on...

cli

Yes, you're very right. There are all sorts of subtleties, and I certainly won't pretend I'm anything more than an armchair psychologist! I'm thinking more of one's reaction to witnessing the blatant suffering of another. Whether it's Asperger's, autism, sociopathy, narcissism, or just being a jerk, there is something wrong with getting angry and arguing at a 92 year-old woman for being sad that her beloved cat is dying. That seems pretty universally repugnant to me...

Thlayli

Does anyone watch Bones or Star Trek: TNG? Some of the things you are describing sound like the main character in Bones and like Data from TNG.

I would say that Antisocial PD people are VERY good at pretending they have feelings and empathy. I don't get the impression that people with Asp. are very good at that. I could almost envision that people with Asp. almost seem like they have achieved the detatchment that Buddhist strive for.

wantabe

Thanks, I love this and hadn't heard it before.

kricket68

Yes, ask me anything you'd like to know about Asperger Syndrome, I was diagnosed with it in January 1999. I am a 44 year old woman whom happens to also be dealing with alcoholism.

Also, both of my sons (ages 22 and 20) were diagnosed in the very early 1990's.

Regarding the cat. I had a very similiar experience when I was 15. My sister was wailing one morning because our beloved grandfather had died. I woke up, she told me...and I said "oh" and proceeded to pour a bowl of cornflakes. I never did cry because it was logical that he died. He was 75 and had suffered a major heart attack 6 months prior. I did miss him though. I can tell anyone how he was a wonderful man. At the funeral everyone was going so beserk that after a while I arranged for the guy at the funeral home to show me around there. My main place I wanted to see was where they embalmed bodies. It really interested me more.

One aside, I am human first and foremost. I kissed my grandfather on the cheek while he was in the coffin. I just remember thinking that he felt very icy cold.

Hope this helps a bit.

~Kricket

kricket68

Sorry but as someone with a diagnosis with AS, I vastly disagree. Asperger Syndrome is a neurological disorder and not classified as a mental illness.

Thanks,
Kricket

dancingnow

Thanks kricket for for providing your experience with AS. My RAH once exclaimed that he probably suffered from AS although he was never diagnosed.

Early in his drinking days, when it didn't seem to be a problem or at least I wasn't aware of his drinking he was warm and loving although there always seemed to be a veil of deception that I couldn't put my finger on.

Now that he is abstaining from alcohol, he seems to be mean and uncaring. He wants to make sure I understand he is a logical person and discounts my feelings and thoughts.

I am just curious what your relationship is like with the father of your sons and also in your experience how AS impacts that relationship.

I understand if you are not wanting to answer these questions but just wondering if you could provide some perspective.

onlythetruth

This is true: AS is not a mental illness but a neurological disorder. However, it IS listed in the DSM-IV-TR among the various mental illnesses, so it is understandable that people get confused on this point.

BrokenHeartWife

While AS may not be a mental illness, having a Dual Diagnosis (AS and alcoholism) makes things more complicated, just as having a Dual Diagnosis of a mental illness (bi-polar or personality disorder and alcoholism) makes things more complicated.

My AH has a personality disorder on the Cluster B spectrum (borderline, narcissistic) and it has made his alcoholic recovery more difficult because the problems with having a PD make it more difficult to cope without alcohol. it also makes it more difficult for him to deal with other people...especially those he's known for awhile. He seems to get along fine with those who are "new to him" (likely because he/they haven't yet encountered situations where his PD-responses get triggered), but he still has had some "run ins" at AA meetings.

onlythetruth

Also true. Having a dual diagnosis does complicate recovery from addiction, there's no doubt about that, and I'll go out on a limb and say that this is true no matter what the co-occurring disorder is. Mental illnesses, being on the autism spectrum, physical illnesses that cause a lot of pain...all of these things increase the challenge.

But the reality is that most people with addictions have something else too, some complicating factor....which is why I think its a shame that addiction treatment gets segregated from other forms of treatment. Addiction does not tend to occur in isolation and it makes no sense to treat it as though it does.

Romans

I taught special education until recently. Some of the people some of you believe to have aspergers may not have it. Your husband certainly doesn't sound as if he is anywhere on the spectrum. He just views animals and their passing differently than you expected. It is an interesting discussion. Far too many people are getting diagnosed with things they don't have.

Yurt

I probably shouldn't be dredging up an old post such as this, but I am most comfortable communicating on this forum. In my case, neither I, nor my STBEXAH are Aspy, but I suspect that one of my dear friends is. During the past year, I have leaned on this friend, who is a counselor for the school district where I work, and after leaving my AH, we have gotten a lot closer. Being over the age of 65, he has learned many of the skills that one needs to function well with others. Still...there are times that he can be perplexing. I don't believe that he is without emotion. Quite the opposite. When I finally had the opportunity to tell him how much I cared for him, he wept. He cannot seem to express those sentiments himself (verbally), but he has told me that it is more about what a person does than says. He is (almost) always kind and sweet to me, and although I have to be very direct with him at times, this relationship is much more fulfilling than the abusive one I have recently left.
No, I do not plan on moving in or getting too serious too fast, but I am in a pretty happy place right now with my friend.

dandylion

Yurt...to be very direct and honest with you.....if you find him perplexing and you aren't even in a committed relationship, yet......I would reconsider getting more deeply involved.
Anything that is a problem before committment or marriage doesn't get better---it tends to get magnified.
You are just getting out of one very difficult relationship-----and you don't need to settle just because it seem a little better.
You wouldn't want to find yourself 5yrs. down the road and in another unsatisfying relationship.

Why not date several other people and find out what a really good one with a normal healthy person feels like.
People tend to repeat the same pattern more often than not--and 2nd marriages fail more frequently than first marriages.

If I have said too much-----please ignore everything that I have said.......LOL.