FlyerFan

So many on the boards know me as an alcoholic myself, in recovery, I have almost 10 months now. I have worked at my place of employment for about 6 years and ever since day 1 I knew my boss had a drinking problem. However I never realized it was so severe until quite recently when I started seeing his health diminish very greatly. He is in denial, and so is the rest of the people at my place of employment. I am 99.9% sure he has cirrhosis of the liver. His stomach is bloated, his legs are bloated, and 2 days ago I witnessed him cough up blood in the office. Which he shrugged off as a side effect of his breathing medication. I know better.

As an alcoholic myself i KNOW the warning signs.I KNOW what classifies us as drunks, but looking from the outside in, is SO painful. I love this person and I have worked for them for years now and I have grown close and friendly to them and I know they're going to die very soon if they don't stop. They don't want to stop nor do they have any intentions. I've been praying and talking about it at meetings and with my sponsor, but I just can't let it go.

A friend of mine suggested I try alanon, which I am taking into consideration but I just wanted to get all this out of my head and into words, maybe I will feel better talking about it here. I appreciate you all taking the time to read this. I understand why I AM an alcholic, but damn is it hard to see other people suffer or what?

Pelican

I am a double winner ~ recovering alcoholic and recovering ex of an active alcoholic.

From this side of recovery (watching a loved one's downward spiral in addiction), I found the 3 C's to be helpful in knowing what I can/can not do to help my loved one.

3 C's:

I did not Cause it
I can not Control it
I will not Cure it

The addiction belongs to the adult with the problem.

I didn't want someone telling me how I should live my life. I was an adult, by golly, and I can live my life however I want! My ego with alcoholism also prevented me from accepting kind hearted concern from well meaning friends.

How about you? Do you think someone telling you that alcohol was killing you would have made a difference in your addiction?

I do believe it is a sign of compassion to share (gently) that you are concerned with your employers health. Let them know you are available if they need any support. But I would not point any fingers toward alcohol being the cause. Unless you are a medical professional, leave your personal diagnosis out of the conversation.

Then detach.
Their life. Their choice. Their control.

Also, from this side of recovery. Don't enable the alcoholic. Don't do work that is their responsibility. Don't cover up their mistakes. Allow them the dignity to deal with the consequences of their actions.

Congratulations to you on your own recovery!
Keep on keepin on!

dandylion

Dear FlyerFan, my heart goes out to you. It is sooo heartbreaking to watch a loved one destroy themselves.

The Serenity Prayer, my friend.

Sincerely, dandylion

Tuffgirl

Flyer Fan, I know the feeling of being helpless in this very situation, watching someone slowly kill themselves and knowing there is a way to change that. But Pelican is right about how hard it can be to get past the ego. I like her suggestion of kindly and gently expressing your concern, but don't force...it is his choice after all.

Prayers for you and your boss,
~T

Cyranoak

Dudette, Seriously, get thee to Alanon. It's critical at this juncture. Why in the world, knowing what you know about AA, would you be avoiding Alanon?

Seriously, try a few meetings. It will directly help you with this specific situation.

Take care,

Cyranoak

Freedom1990

I am the least likely to help my 34-year-old AD or anyone else close to me with addictions, including alcoholism.

I am a long-term recovering alcoholic/addict (22 years).

Alanon has been an invaluable resource for me. I would have lost my mind years ago had it not been for Alanon and its principles I practice daily in my life!

Sending you hugs of support.

NYCDoglvr

I've been going to AA for two decades and hear terrible stories. I've known people who went back to drinking and died. It's not uncommon. My reaction is to get on my knees and thank God I'm one of the lucky ones. I realize my recovery is a huge gift and that I must take care of it because "there but by the grace of God go I".

FlyerFan

Oh no I'm not avoiding it at all, it just never occurred to me before today that it may help me cope with this situation. I fully intend to check it out.

I have been praying and I know I can't help him. It is just very very sad that's all. He walked in last week with a black eye swollen shut and an egg on his head, fell getting out of his vehicle, he claims he was sober but I know him too well to believe that one. (we all know that one!)

thank you all for your kind words. I will keep praying and I will definitely check out alanon. (I also have other relatives who drink so I should have been attending years ago, I never knew it existed back then of course, lol)

FlyerFan

Well he's getting worse. (yes I have been taking care of myself and attenting alanon meetings, by the way) His skin is yellowing/greying and hes having more trouble breathing. But he continues to show up to work like nothing is wrong. He also continues to eat and drink very unhealthy so I have come to the conclusion that he is just trying to kill himself before his liver actually fails. I dont really know.

Anyway I am able to accept the situation, I just don't want to be the person who walks in one day and finds him laying on the floor, that would just haunt me forever. Ugh.

Does anyone know about how long it takes to die from this stage? Sorry if that question sounds messed up at all, but I want to prepare myself. I know that only a doctor can give a good estimate of time, but that isn't going to happen as he won't go see one.

Tuffgirl

Having just gone through this - here was my experience. My friend first had liver failure last year. But the luck of God, she survived and actually began to get better. She was sober for almost 5 months, relapsed last February, and made it another 7 months before getting very sick again. She checked herself into the hospital Sept. 27, and died yesterday (October 21st). Once the liver failed, the kidneys began to fail too. And there were other complications: blood clots, varicies, high risk for internal bleeding, etc. She developed severe ascites (sp?) which created painful edema in her extremities. She was jaundiced and also had some grey tinges to her skin.

No one knows for sure how long, but from what you describe, it could be a very short time before something happens that causes him to seek medical treatment (something severe enough to break through the denial). My hope is it won't be too late, like it was for my friend. Before we got word that there was nothing more that could be done to heal the liver, she was agreeing to enter a long-term treatment program. She wanted one more chance. It didn't happen.

Prayers to you today.

adamjet

Would a liver problem really cause him to cough up blood?

Learn2Live

If his skin is yellow and he is throwing up blood, his liver is failing. Everyone is different so I don't know how to tell how long he has left. It's weird, people come here and post about a person who died of liver failure at age 40, then I look at my dad who is in his 70s and has been drinking non-stop forever and is still alive and drinking.

When they throw up blood it is because the blood that normally goes to the liver can't so it backs up into the stomach and the esophagus. His legs and stomach are bloated because the fluid that is normally in the liver goes into the abdomen, the legs, and the lungs. It's called ascites.

When he gets scared enough, he may work up enough nerve to go the doctor. He really should be seen by a doctor. For your own conscience, maybe offer to take him to the doctor. It's what I do with my dad. He always refuses and then winds up going on his own, but at least I can say I tried.

Sad to watch. Sorry you are witnessing this.

FlyerFan

Yeah his skin is definitely yellowing and greying. mostly in the face at this point. He has gone to see doctors and has stopped. Because he says "they aren't helping". So he refuses to see anymore. I think he just does't care anymore at all and he just wants it to end.

it is just very sad to see someone slowly deteriorate like this. Tuffgirl I am so sorry for your loss. I have a feeling that he doesnt have long left, just because of the way he struggles to breathe. Yet he continues to live his life as if nothing is wrong. Its frustrating to the people around him. I have been keeping my distance because I don't like to see him in this condition.

Tuffgirl

I think my friend got to that point as well, before she checked herself into the hospital. I think she just quit caring.

Have you tried to talk with him yet? I know its hard to watch and go through - it was for me too, lots of tears shed over the last two weeks - but having someone there helps because I am sure underneath he is scared.

Learn2Live

When it gets bad enough, he'll go to the ER for relief.

FlyerFan

I have tried to talk to him, he won't hear any of it. And I really don't think hes going to go to the ER. He looks like he is going to drop dead any day now either of a heart attack or the liver will finally just go. I have met some stubborn people in my time but never like this. In my drinking days I finally had enough when I injured myself falling down stairs. This person has done that a thousand times and keeps on trucking somehow.

I mean at this point I am just expecting the very worst. Even if he were to go to the ER I know they're going to tell him he needs a transplant. And the sad part is, he has the money for any kind of rehab and care he could ever need. He just doesnt WANT it.

suki44883

That sums it all up. We cannot make someone want recovery. All the money in the world won't make a person want recovery. It's sad to watch, but there's nothing you can do for him.

Zee

I had ascites (toxic stomach swelling) & edema (toxic leg swelling) I couldn't even walk a couple of steps without being out of breath. It landed me in hospital for a month. I'm amazed he is still carrying on. When things go wrong with the liver, it happens pretty quickly, then all heck breaks loose. Scared me completely straight. Been over a year since I have drunk and I'm doing pretty well now. The throwing up blood is from varices in the esophigus (which I don't have thank goodness) because the blood in the portal vein can't get through the liver quick enough and backs up and causes veins to weaken and bleed. He needs to get to hospital pretty sharpish in my opinion because things don't sound so good from your posts It's such a shame when people don't think that this is their rock bottom!

FlyerFan

Yes, you are right, and I know this for a fact because it took me 5 times to stop drinking finally, because I didnt want it bad enough the first 4 times.

I'll keep prayin'. Thanks everyone for listening and sharing your experience. I'll keep you posted. I'm prepared for a death to occur, ill need all your strength to help me get through. I also plan on doubling up my meetings as well. I love you guys.

tomsteve

my friend, it has been awesome reading the progress you have made over this short period of time. it is awesome to read you trying to carry the message of AA.
it can be very hard to accept that we have to step over ones who fall by the wayside, but it happens. it has been hard for me to accept at times that i am powerless over whether other poeple want to get help or not. but at the same time, i dont want to go down with them.
please remember the family. you may be able to help them, even if is just helping them understand alcoholism a lil more. maybe you can offer them a copy of the big book and yer phone number so they have someone who has been there to talk to.