AH has done a 180 on me! Now what?
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,349
AH has done a 180 on me! Now what?
So, my AH has all of a sudden decided he wants to fix things. He sounds genuine, here's a copy/paste from his emails:
Thanks for the message. I appreciate you perspective. I will admit that Jason(the therapist) appears to be......rigid? I don't know if you get the same vibe. I will admit he does stay on point which I like. I know it may be unorthodox but we may want to consider talking to each other in addition to therapy. Unfortunately, I don't see our schedules meeting up and I'm not sure you trust me enough to talk one on one? That's not a jab. I understand that you may feel vulnerable or have so many thing on your mind that you may find it difficult to organize your thoughts and you may be concerned that I would not be willing to work through it with you. Well I am willing.
With all that said, I hope you know that I Love you............and G....he's alright...and my frustration has way more to do with what I feel about myself than how I feel about you. I truly love you with all my heart and the most painful thing for me is knowing how badly I make you feel.
I am sorry for the last years behavior. I am doing what I can to make things right.
Finally if you think switching counselors might help I'm on board. I think there are other issues that you feel might be helpful to get on the table but Jason is now like a dog with a bone and doesn't appear to be flexible Either way let me know what you'd like to do.
SOOOO, here was my response:
Not a jab, it's the truth. I don't trust you to handle my emotions with care and I think we're both too resentful to really get anywhere talking one on one. Our conversations go in circles and I come out of them feeling demoralized and feeling 'less than'. I get stuck and I fall further and further into this circular conversation filled with anger and crazy stuff and I get defensive and don't even know how to protect myself. Right now, it's best for me to just step back and not engage. It's pretty much the reason I didn't want to go on the trip, I was afraid of being emotionally vulnerable and not being able to handle myself alone with you.
I am working very hard at trying to build up my self esteem and trying to tackle MY problems. I am resentful, angry, emotionally abused, and just down right beaten down trying to compete with beer. I spend almost every single waking free moment in prayer. I truly believe this experience has brought me closer to God. I cry the minute I walk into church, I have to choke back the tears so Griffin doesn't see how silly mom is crying over a stupid worship song. If anything, I can thank you for helping me renew my spiritual life as it was dead for a long time. You may feel threatened by the things I'm doing with my life but I need to do these things for me. I need to find a way to be in God's will and to trust in Him. I have spent too long making our marriage and YOU, my false idols and gods. I have no idea how marriage counseling will go for us. I know you can't prove that you're not drinking but it's going to take a long time for me to trust you(in more ways than just the drinking). We can give Jason a few more rounds and see where he's going with things. At this point, it's probably better than nothing.
And, here's his response back:
I'll say this ..... Since Ive taken some time to think and with the small release of emotion at Jason's office, I was able/ willing to take a more pointed look at myself and decided how immature I've been. I know this is throwing you for a loop but once I put the idea of sex to bed I was able to more clearly see what a douche I've been. It's not an excuse but a realization.
I'd rather change now than later.
So that's where I'm at for now.
SOOOO, now what am I supposed to do with all of this? He sounds genuine but is he really going to do anything about it right? Actions speak louder than words at this point. Maybe this is just another tactic to get back in my pants? Or, maybe it's genuine but will he really be capable of change? Only time will tell. Honestly, all I hear is quacking at this point. My heart wants to believe him but my head says NOOOOO!
Thanks for the message. I appreciate you perspective. I will admit that Jason(the therapist) appears to be......rigid? I don't know if you get the same vibe. I will admit he does stay on point which I like. I know it may be unorthodox but we may want to consider talking to each other in addition to therapy. Unfortunately, I don't see our schedules meeting up and I'm not sure you trust me enough to talk one on one? That's not a jab. I understand that you may feel vulnerable or have so many thing on your mind that you may find it difficult to organize your thoughts and you may be concerned that I would not be willing to work through it with you. Well I am willing.
With all that said, I hope you know that I Love you............and G....he's alright...and my frustration has way more to do with what I feel about myself than how I feel about you. I truly love you with all my heart and the most painful thing for me is knowing how badly I make you feel.
I am sorry for the last years behavior. I am doing what I can to make things right.
Finally if you think switching counselors might help I'm on board. I think there are other issues that you feel might be helpful to get on the table but Jason is now like a dog with a bone and doesn't appear to be flexible Either way let me know what you'd like to do.
SOOOO, here was my response:
Not a jab, it's the truth. I don't trust you to handle my emotions with care and I think we're both too resentful to really get anywhere talking one on one. Our conversations go in circles and I come out of them feeling demoralized and feeling 'less than'. I get stuck and I fall further and further into this circular conversation filled with anger and crazy stuff and I get defensive and don't even know how to protect myself. Right now, it's best for me to just step back and not engage. It's pretty much the reason I didn't want to go on the trip, I was afraid of being emotionally vulnerable and not being able to handle myself alone with you.
I am working very hard at trying to build up my self esteem and trying to tackle MY problems. I am resentful, angry, emotionally abused, and just down right beaten down trying to compete with beer. I spend almost every single waking free moment in prayer. I truly believe this experience has brought me closer to God. I cry the minute I walk into church, I have to choke back the tears so Griffin doesn't see how silly mom is crying over a stupid worship song. If anything, I can thank you for helping me renew my spiritual life as it was dead for a long time. You may feel threatened by the things I'm doing with my life but I need to do these things for me. I need to find a way to be in God's will and to trust in Him. I have spent too long making our marriage and YOU, my false idols and gods. I have no idea how marriage counseling will go for us. I know you can't prove that you're not drinking but it's going to take a long time for me to trust you(in more ways than just the drinking). We can give Jason a few more rounds and see where he's going with things. At this point, it's probably better than nothing.
And, here's his response back:
I'll say this ..... Since Ive taken some time to think and with the small release of emotion at Jason's office, I was able/ willing to take a more pointed look at myself and decided how immature I've been. I know this is throwing you for a loop but once I put the idea of sex to bed I was able to more clearly see what a douche I've been. It's not an excuse but a realization.
I'd rather change now than later.
So that's where I'm at for now.
SOOOO, now what am I supposed to do with all of this? He sounds genuine but is he really going to do anything about it right? Actions speak louder than words at this point. Maybe this is just another tactic to get back in my pants? Or, maybe it's genuine but will he really be capable of change? Only time will tell. Honestly, all I hear is quacking at this point. My heart wants to believe him but my head says NOOOOO!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
Someone on this site, and I can't remember who, so I'll just echo his words, says,
More will be revealed.
Keep on your own path. The more you figure out who you are and what you want, the more clarity you'll bring to the relationship.
It is certainly hopeful to hear what your A is saying. Let him keep going on his own path, and if he really is getting it, you'll see his behavior change in good ways and stabilize there.
In the meantime, follow your own path on your own timetable.
Hugs and support coming your way,
BothSidesNow
More will be revealed.
Keep on your own path. The more you figure out who you are and what you want, the more clarity you'll bring to the relationship.
It is certainly hopeful to hear what your A is saying. Let him keep going on his own path, and if he really is getting it, you'll see his behavior change in good ways and stabilize there.
In the meantime, follow your own path on your own timetable.
Hugs and support coming your way,
BothSidesNow
And Presents For Pretty Girls
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 319
I agree wholeheartedly with Bothsidesnow.
Let him prove that he's really doing something and continue with your own recovery. It's too easy to hear what we want to hear, throw caution to the wind and jump right back in.
You need to take care of you first and foremost. He needs to take care of him.
Listen to your head for right now. It is seeing the truth that your heart can't see.
Let him prove that he's really doing something and continue with your own recovery. It's too easy to hear what we want to hear, throw caution to the wind and jump right back in.
You need to take care of you first and foremost. He needs to take care of him.
Listen to your head for right now. It is seeing the truth that your heart can't see.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ireland
Posts: 222
I agree with Freedom.
Talk IS cheap. My new motto is " Don't TELLl me, SHOW me "
They can talk until they are blue in the face as far as I'm concerned but unless I see action or changes, what the heck is the point.
Mind yourself Liz and keep your eyes on the prize- YOUR life.
In time you will see whether he means it or not.
From experience, my guess is not. Quack quack!
Talk IS cheap. My new motto is " Don't TELLl me, SHOW me "
They can talk until they are blue in the face as far as I'm concerned but unless I see action or changes, what the heck is the point.
Mind yourself Liz and keep your eyes on the prize- YOUR life.
In time you will see whether he means it or not.
From experience, my guess is not. Quack quack!
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
It is perfectly fine to just do NOTHING. Do you see how you are playing a game, whether consciously or not? He has just made a tactical move and now you are trying to come up with a strategy to counter his move. You can refuse to play the game. Just walk off the field and go shopping with your girlfriends. It's much more fun.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,796
I don't know...
Something about how some of these AH take all this time to write long emails about how they want to change and all that, makes me skeptical. I've read some others on here where the AH will be like writing a novel of an email about I don't even know what.
I'd take what he says with a grain of salt.
Something about how some of these AH take all this time to write long emails about how they want to change and all that, makes me skeptical. I've read some others on here where the AH will be like writing a novel of an email about I don't even know what.
I'd take what he says with a grain of salt.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Actions, not words. I once told my AH I could not hear what he was saying because what he was doing was drowning it out. It takes time to "fix things," not a big long diatribe in email.
L
L
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
What I always try to keep in mind whenever dealing with a NON_RECOVERED alcoholic is that they have a great need to maintain the status-quo with us enablers.
They desperately need those who (albeit, unknowingly) enable or are supportive in order to protect the ability to feed the "monster" inside their brains. The monster that constantly reminds them of their most important need---to feed the "monster" with alcohol.
When someone who enables or supports changes their own behaviors in a way that threatens the A's ability to carry on as usual---their deepest fears are triggered. Manipulation, the A's greatest tool, is then called into play to try to maintain the status quo. All A's in our intimate circle know where our "hot buttons" are and know (because we taught them) exactly what we want to hear.
It is sooo difficult. I think that when the A's say those things that we have longed to hear for so long---it is tantamount to passing a fresh steak in front of a hungry, homeless dog. Or, maybe like handing a can of beer to a struggling alcoholic.
When this happens, it is time to listen to the head (rather than heart). To remember all the "tools" that we are learning.
To remember that it is actions, not words, that count. To remember how cheap talk can be. To remember that alcohol matters more than any relationship--to the practicing alcoholic. That the alcoholic is not really in control of him/her self---the "monster" inside is fighting to keep control. To remember that our spirit and soul---our inner peace of mind is our birthright is the greatest gift that we have. That alcoholism doesn't CARE!!!
It is our focus on our own journey to recovery that will lead us to freedom and joy in
being alive.
These are the thoughts---and knowledge that have helped me when relating to my own beloved alcoholics.
dandylion
They desperately need those who (albeit, unknowingly) enable or are supportive in order to protect the ability to feed the "monster" inside their brains. The monster that constantly reminds them of their most important need---to feed the "monster" with alcohol.
When someone who enables or supports changes their own behaviors in a way that threatens the A's ability to carry on as usual---their deepest fears are triggered. Manipulation, the A's greatest tool, is then called into play to try to maintain the status quo. All A's in our intimate circle know where our "hot buttons" are and know (because we taught them) exactly what we want to hear.
It is sooo difficult. I think that when the A's say those things that we have longed to hear for so long---it is tantamount to passing a fresh steak in front of a hungry, homeless dog. Or, maybe like handing a can of beer to a struggling alcoholic.
When this happens, it is time to listen to the head (rather than heart). To remember all the "tools" that we are learning.
To remember that it is actions, not words, that count. To remember how cheap talk can be. To remember that alcohol matters more than any relationship--to the practicing alcoholic. That the alcoholic is not really in control of him/her self---the "monster" inside is fighting to keep control. To remember that our spirit and soul---our inner peace of mind is our birthright is the greatest gift that we have. That alcoholism doesn't CARE!!!
It is our focus on our own journey to recovery that will lead us to freedom and joy in
being alive.
These are the thoughts---and knowledge that have helped me when relating to my own beloved alcoholics.
dandylion
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Well .................................. yes, he sounds sincere. Is it quacking?
Not sure and neither are you.
As others have stated in different ways, I believe at this point, 1) do not
change your mind and go to Costa Rico, 2) continue to work your own
program, and 3) step back as you have been and WATCH his ACTIONS.
See if they start to match his words. Watch and see how he is changing,
if at all. What is he doing differently? etc
(((((Liz))))) you have come so far in a fairly short period of time, please
keep moving forward for you and your son.
Love and hugs,
Not sure and neither are you.
As others have stated in different ways, I believe at this point, 1) do not
change your mind and go to Costa Rico, 2) continue to work your own
program, and 3) step back as you have been and WATCH his ACTIONS.
See if they start to match his words. Watch and see how he is changing,
if at all. What is he doing differently? etc
(((((Liz))))) you have come so far in a fairly short period of time, please
keep moving forward for you and your son.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Posts: 693
You know how in the Charlie Brown cartoons when adults would talk it would sound like "Wah wah wah wah wah, wah wah wah."
That's how your husband's email sounds to me. It's just sounds with no meaning.
The meaning comes with time and action and real change.
That's how your husband's email sounds to me. It's just sounds with no meaning.
The meaning comes with time and action and real change.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,349
The good news is that I agree with all of you. He made mention to the fact that the therapist was like a bog with a bone and he was referring to the fact that the therapist wanted the drinking issue addressed first. Basically I need to see what he's going to do to address the drinking and how he behaves over the next few months.
No, I'm not planning on going to Costa Rica and I hope this isn't his ploy to get me to change my mind. I don't think I can be added to the trip anyway because his company already has the bookings done and set. I'm grateful for that because then I can't be tempted to change my mind.
We will be meeting with this therapist again on Thursday so we'll see how it goes,
No, I'm not planning on going to Costa Rica and I hope this isn't his ploy to get me to change my mind. I don't think I can be added to the trip anyway because his company already has the bookings done and set. I'm grateful for that because then I can't be tempted to change my mind.
We will be meeting with this therapist again on Thursday so we'll see how it goes,
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 209
Can we really ever believe their actions OR words?
They usually do or say what we want to get us hooked back in..
I hate to be so negative, but that's how I see it.
He'll reel you in and then BAM!! You're back to square one..
They usually do or say what we want to get us hooked back in..
I hate to be so negative, but that's how I see it.
He'll reel you in and then BAM!! You're back to square one..
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 329
It's always a hard place to be bc that's what we have wanted to hear for so long! I think your doing great....keep doing what your doing! Actions are the key here not talk! In my experience I heard talk...talk...talk! Never actions but I never required any bc I'd fall right back in with hope. Hope things will become different for you but one thing is certain .....if you stay on the path to recovery for You than one way or another you will be ok! He can either fall into that or not. Best wishes
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
I have a question because this line irked me:
Have you suggested switching counselors?
This is totally the tone and MO my AXH would use with me when he wanted to appear to be open to me making decisions while, at the same time, telling me exactly what decision he wanted me to make ("change counselors, because Jason is focused on my alcoholism and that's not the REAL problem here, that's just what YOU and JASON think the problem is").
Me? I wouldn't trust a single word. I would wait for action.
Finally if you think switching counselors might help I'm on board. I think there are other issues that you feel might be helpful to get on the table but Jason is now like a dog with a bone and doesn't appear to be flexible Either way let me know what you'd like to do.
This is totally the tone and MO my AXH would use with me when he wanted to appear to be open to me making decisions while, at the same time, telling me exactly what decision he wanted me to make ("change counselors, because Jason is focused on my alcoholism and that's not the REAL problem here, that's just what YOU and JASON think the problem is").
Me? I wouldn't trust a single word. I would wait for action.
I AM CANADIAN
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 2,578
Originally Posted by BothSidesNow 
More will be revealed.
Keep on your own path. The more you figure out who you are and what you want, the more clarity you'll bring to the relationship.
be patient with yourself...do what you think is right in your heart...
in AL ANON we say to wait 1 year until you have lots of meetings under your belt...
you dont need to do anything rash....
work on YOU, not him (if he sees the error of his ways...great, he can work on that HIMSELF)
but i so love YOUR WORDS...keep up the good work...HE SEES CHANGE(and its scaring him)
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