O/T the MILLION dollar question
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O/T the MILLION dollar question
WHY DO WOMEN HAVE SO LITTLE SELF-RESPECT FOR THEMSELVES!?! Men manipulate us, lie to us, and cheat on us yet we (yes i am including myself) try to salvage whats lefts of the relationship!? So many of us have been in these types of situations, with all signs pointing to RUN RUN B*TCH RUN, but we still try to make things work: not just with an A but a normie too. I just finished having a conversation with my bff and long story short: her boyfriend(not an A) slept with his ex on Independence Day after she and him had gotten into an argument the night before. Now, 4 days later (after shes had hours long convos with her boyfriend and his ex he slept with) she's telling me shes giving it another shot, they are going to therapy this week, hes getting tested for STD's tommorow and she doesnt want to "give up that easy...." This is not the 1st time he has slept with someone after 1 of their arguments and i highly doubt it will be the last, but i digress, this conversation with her is what spurred this thought in my mind: WHY DO WOMEN HAVE SO LITTLE SELF RESPECT!?!
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I can't answer that one...don't get it but guessing it's about self esteem or much of it. History too....invested so much giving up is more difficult. Either way not good for any of us. I am including myself. My mother always says, what we permit we promote.
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Well, I want to say that I don't think it's just women with this problem. I know men who keep going back to wives who cheat, wives with drinking problems, etc.
As for why people have no self-resect, I assume it's just the human condition. We have hope that things will change, we want to believe the words coming out of their mouths when they say it won't happen again, we have a belief system that believes the best in others, etc. I'm sure our childhoods play a part, as well.
My sister is married to a guy who is living with a girlfriend, has another girl in the wings, and still begs my sis to take him back!!! Seriously, the guy is psycho and thinks she'll take him back just because he's the father of their 2 boys. Oh, and he's not an A, either, but has some serious issues obviously! They can't even afford a divorce now because he lost his job after he moved in with the girlfriend because my sister wasn't there to wake him up in time for work so they fired him for ongoing tardiness!
I honestly believe that my low self esteem comes from my dad and how he treated us. We were always in his way, he belittled us in front of other people but then would turn around and praise us in front of other groups of people. I never knew if I was the good girl or the bad girl depending upon which group of people we were around. He made us feel like we were the dirt beneath his feet. He called me in college and told me that I should have been aborted and that I ruined his life(yes, he was drunk). It's things like this that make me realize that I had NO self respect or self esteem. I'd have s*x with guys just for attention back in those days, I was desperate to be 'seen' and to have someone just say something NICE about me. I've grown past all that but I still stay married to my AH, I still have fear and lack of confidence in myself. Yet, at this point, I am finally aware of it and I am taking steps to build my confidence and my self esteem. It's taken a lifetime to get to this point, I'm not expecting a miracle, but I finally believe that I am worthy. 42 years old and I finally believe all this. I like what sassy shared: what we permit, we promote. Short group of words, but so powerful!
As for why people have no self-resect, I assume it's just the human condition. We have hope that things will change, we want to believe the words coming out of their mouths when they say it won't happen again, we have a belief system that believes the best in others, etc. I'm sure our childhoods play a part, as well.
My sister is married to a guy who is living with a girlfriend, has another girl in the wings, and still begs my sis to take him back!!! Seriously, the guy is psycho and thinks she'll take him back just because he's the father of their 2 boys. Oh, and he's not an A, either, but has some serious issues obviously! They can't even afford a divorce now because he lost his job after he moved in with the girlfriend because my sister wasn't there to wake him up in time for work so they fired him for ongoing tardiness!
I honestly believe that my low self esteem comes from my dad and how he treated us. We were always in his way, he belittled us in front of other people but then would turn around and praise us in front of other groups of people. I never knew if I was the good girl or the bad girl depending upon which group of people we were around. He made us feel like we were the dirt beneath his feet. He called me in college and told me that I should have been aborted and that I ruined his life(yes, he was drunk). It's things like this that make me realize that I had NO self respect or self esteem. I'd have s*x with guys just for attention back in those days, I was desperate to be 'seen' and to have someone just say something NICE about me. I've grown past all that but I still stay married to my AH, I still have fear and lack of confidence in myself. Yet, at this point, I am finally aware of it and I am taking steps to build my confidence and my self esteem. It's taken a lifetime to get to this point, I'm not expecting a miracle, but I finally believe that I am worthy. 42 years old and I finally believe all this. I like what sassy shared: what we permit, we promote. Short group of words, but so powerful!
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For me it has been about realizing that I have options.
I learned what I thought was the "right" way to be when I was young.
Recovery has allowed me to see that the "right" way I learned is not the only way. Recovery for me has been about having choices and space to make those choices. It has helped me to see that I was not the problem....my lack of ability to see that I had a choice was.
That black pit in the middle of my stomach of doom and gloom has decreased as a result.
I learned what I thought was the "right" way to be when I was young.
Recovery has allowed me to see that the "right" way I learned is not the only way. Recovery for me has been about having choices and space to make those choices. It has helped me to see that I was not the problem....my lack of ability to see that I had a choice was.
That black pit in the middle of my stomach of doom and gloom has decreased as a result.
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I hear you beating yourself and you bff up.
It is an amazing idea that we would continue to go back, isn't it.
The human condition is a slippery slope.
I find in my own life, that until I learn the lesson, I tend to be in denial about the reality of things in life.
I think that things like fear, the idea of love, indecision, old wounds, things like that keep us in places we should probably move on from. It's not wrong or right, it just is what it is.
It is an amazing idea that we would continue to go back, isn't it.
The human condition is a slippery slope.
I find in my own life, that until I learn the lesson, I tend to be in denial about the reality of things in life.
I think that things like fear, the idea of love, indecision, old wounds, things like that keep us in places we should probably move on from. It's not wrong or right, it just is what it is.
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Great question and I had this talk the other night with a friend who does not take any sh&t from a man!
But tis true, women often are the ones being abused and staying with abusers.
If you would have asked me 15 yrs ago would I be with an addict or accept abuse, I would have laughed at the thought.
My poise and self esteem were stellar. My ex of 11 yrs never abused me or even crossed a line with me until the end.
I never let anyone walk all over me....
But with time, trauma's pain and then the ex of 11 yrs cheating on me in the most vile way, I started to waver in my beliefs, in my morals in my dignity.
My pain was like a jackhammer chipping away at my worth and like a fast downward spiral, I could not control it.
From that point, I started to date addict who were lairs, cheaters and abusive (3 of them) and each ended in horrible sick ways, and I still clung on to them and the hope for a better relationship.
With women, I think we are nurtures by nature and feel we need to "fix" and in the process lose out inner "b&tch".....there is a book called "why men marry b*tches" and of course no one should be a B, but as women, we need to never love too much, never give too much and never trust too much and treat men at arms length.
Sucks, but it's reality I suppose
But tis true, women often are the ones being abused and staying with abusers.
If you would have asked me 15 yrs ago would I be with an addict or accept abuse, I would have laughed at the thought.
My poise and self esteem were stellar. My ex of 11 yrs never abused me or even crossed a line with me until the end.
I never let anyone walk all over me....
But with time, trauma's pain and then the ex of 11 yrs cheating on me in the most vile way, I started to waver in my beliefs, in my morals in my dignity.
My pain was like a jackhammer chipping away at my worth and like a fast downward spiral, I could not control it.
From that point, I started to date addict who were lairs, cheaters and abusive (3 of them) and each ended in horrible sick ways, and I still clung on to them and the hope for a better relationship.
With women, I think we are nurtures by nature and feel we need to "fix" and in the process lose out inner "b&tch".....there is a book called "why men marry b*tches" and of course no one should be a B, but as women, we need to never love too much, never give too much and never trust too much and treat men at arms length.
Sucks, but it's reality I suppose
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O/T the MILLION dollar answer.....?
I cant speak for all women, but since neither I nor any of the women I know or with whom I associate are like this atall, perhaps it's just the women you know..................?
(o:
NoelleR
(o:
NoelleR
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I totally agree......
"We have hope that things will change, we want to believe the words coming out of their mouths when they say it won't happen again, we have a belief system that believes the best in others, etc. I'm sure our childhoods play a part, as well."
Society is WAY confusing now. We (esp as women) are getting all these mixed messages. We are told that now we can be anyone we want to be and that we don't have to settle. But in the same breath we are told that people deserve second chances and that compassion and love is the key.
It is very difficult to draw the line. Whom and what is deserving of forgiveness? When do we just walk away and how many can we walk away from before we are the ones wil commitment issues?
"We have hope that things will change, we want to believe the words coming out of their mouths when they say it won't happen again, we have a belief system that believes the best in others, etc. I'm sure our childhoods play a part, as well."
Society is WAY confusing now. We (esp as women) are getting all these mixed messages. We are told that now we can be anyone we want to be and that we don't have to settle. But in the same breath we are told that people deserve second chances and that compassion and love is the key.
It is very difficult to draw the line. Whom and what is deserving of forgiveness? When do we just walk away and how many can we walk away from before we are the ones wil commitment issues?
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Summerpeach, I read both the author's books and really took away a lot!! I highly recommend them, most of the author's message is about having enough respect for yourself to walk away from men who don't respect you. A lot of good stuff in there, it really opened my eyes and changed the way I approached relationships.
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In my experience, there is no single answer to this question. It is something each individual (if inclined) must dig deep to discover. For me, it took a lot of therapy, a lot of reading, and a ton of honest introspection. But none of that would have meant a thing without a sincere desire to do things differently. (As opposed to just wishing people would treat me differently.)
In my case, much of the issue came from conditioning I received, mostly from my mother, but also from other women in my family, that a husband/boyfriend/romantic partner is required. Not only required, but necessary in order to be a complete person with a complete life. When you are taught that being single is bad and less than being coupled, you tend to cling to relationships just for the sake of having one.
It took some time, and big changes in my belief system, but I no longer see having a relationship as mandatory. I think of it as dessert. A nice, sweet treat, but not at all on the level of something needed.
Ironically, I found that once I no longer needed a relationship, it came easy. Go figure.
L
In my case, much of the issue came from conditioning I received, mostly from my mother, but also from other women in my family, that a husband/boyfriend/romantic partner is required. Not only required, but necessary in order to be a complete person with a complete life. When you are taught that being single is bad and less than being coupled, you tend to cling to relationships just for the sake of having one.
It took some time, and big changes in my belief system, but I no longer see having a relationship as mandatory. I think of it as dessert. A nice, sweet treat, but not at all on the level of something needed.
Ironically, I found that once I no longer needed a relationship, it came easy. Go figure.
L
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I don't like the question ("women" are a huge group of people with hundreds of thousands of experiences that veer form the norm), but I'll hazard a guess.
Women are taught that the success of failure of the relationship is on their shoulders, because we are taught that men aren't responsible for communicating their feelings.
That's sexism, and men and women both suffer individually and in the aggregate because of it.
Women are taught that the success of failure of the relationship is on their shoulders, because we are taught that men aren't responsible for communicating their feelings.
That's sexism, and men and women both suffer individually and in the aggregate because of it.
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Men who are codependent have self-esteem problems too. I think self esteem is at the heart of all addiction, including co-dependency. When you value yourself you don't let others treat you poorly.
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Completely agree with you Sassy! I asked for womens perspectives on this because I am a woman but i know men go through these situations as well . Liz i can relate to your post in so many ways &i thank you for sharing! I do think it ultimately comes down to childhood & self esteem issues for me at least. I also agree that society is very contradicatory. Be strong & independent women but make sure to get married & have kids or your life wont be complete!? Im not so much beating myself up, its more like continuously asking myself, "when did you get so stupid!?" Before i dated my XABF i was very content being single and still am, its just the things i put up within the 4years we were together that im ashamed of myself for. Literally lowered every standard i have in the name of "love." It was not a good look &i continue to work to improve myself by keeping a clear mind so it never happens again. Id never wish the pain i put myself through on my worst enemy.
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I can answer for myself.
For me it is about such a great attachment to 'how I want it to be' or 'how it should be' that I can't see (or don't want to see, subconsciously) how 'it is'. The whole thing is automatic and unconscious. I avoid what I don't like (while framing it as if I am being an optimistic person) and that can lead to me ALLOWING people to mistreat me.
When I can get out of that cycle, I slow down enough to NOTICE I am avoidant, then allow the feelings to arise around the thing I don't like. If I can REALLY BE with those feelings, I can make new choices that are self protective.
Until I allow the feelings, I can't take new action because there is no action to take because I am in denial.
For me it is about such a great attachment to 'how I want it to be' or 'how it should be' that I can't see (or don't want to see, subconsciously) how 'it is'. The whole thing is automatic and unconscious. I avoid what I don't like (while framing it as if I am being an optimistic person) and that can lead to me ALLOWING people to mistreat me.
When I can get out of that cycle, I slow down enough to NOTICE I am avoidant, then allow the feelings to arise around the thing I don't like. If I can REALLY BE with those feelings, I can make new choices that are self protective.
Until I allow the feelings, I can't take new action because there is no action to take because I am in denial.
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I can think of 2 reasons right away. We live in a patriarchal society. It has improved a lot in the past few decades, but it's still a patriarchal society.
Second, there is a lot of social pressure on women to be in a relationship. That's improved a lot too, but there still is a lot of social pressure. That's why some women think they're nothing without a man. I can think of times in my life when people pretty much didn't pay attention to me, then when they found out I had a boyfriend, they were all interested.
Second, there is a lot of social pressure on women to be in a relationship. That's improved a lot too, but there still is a lot of social pressure. That's why some women think they're nothing without a man. I can think of times in my life when people pretty much didn't pay attention to me, then when they found out I had a boyfriend, they were all interested.
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there is a lot of social pressure on women to be in a relationship.
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I think a lot of it is cultural. Popular cultural. Consider:
~ Beauty and the Beast
~ Twilight
~ 50 Shades of Grey
Storyline: Woman meets troubled man but senses there is more under the surface than meets the eye. Feels sympathy/attraction/soulmateship with troubled man. Feels that she has the key to his problems and that if she just loves him enough, he will become the man of her dreams. And then he does. And they live happily ever after.
50 Shades of Grey is topping the NYT bestseller list right now. Over 21 million copies sold. See, every woman wants to find a troubled man that she can love the trouble out of. A soul mate. And she keeps coming back and trying even though he hurts her and even though she knows he's bad for her. But she can't imagine life without him.
After having lived one of those relationships in real life, those books and movies make me want to hurl.
~ Beauty and the Beast
~ Twilight
~ 50 Shades of Grey
Storyline: Woman meets troubled man but senses there is more under the surface than meets the eye. Feels sympathy/attraction/soulmateship with troubled man. Feels that she has the key to his problems and that if she just loves him enough, he will become the man of her dreams. And then he does. And they live happily ever after.
50 Shades of Grey is topping the NYT bestseller list right now. Over 21 million copies sold. See, every woman wants to find a troubled man that she can love the trouble out of. A soul mate. And she keeps coming back and trying even though he hurts her and even though she knows he's bad for her. But she can't imagine life without him.
After having lived one of those relationships in real life, those books and movies make me want to hurl.
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