Why I dont post here so much anymore...
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 386
Originally Posted by canuckch 
I still respect my AH in so many ways. And we have really good times together. Writing such words in this forum will get me lots of head shakes and murmurs of what utter nonsense and probably some "you are in denial posts." Then somebody will go back rummage threw my old posts to remind me of the misery I have been through, hold it up to me like a mirror and direct me back to the proper path.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Mpls., MN
Posts: 20
Hi Buffalo 66,
I can relate to what you said.
And as far as the spouse of the alcoholic doing more damage than the alcoholic, I don't agree with that. I know I have done harm by getting ill from not letting go and not detaching because I got to the point where I was not there for the last two children we had when they were in their teens or it felt like I was not as there. I also was workinig 70 hours a week as we were trying a new venture and it was an opportunity for us to have a bigger home and more room for our kids so that took it's toll over the last 13 years or so. So I guess I can take that stick out of my hand and stop beating myself up for being human. Although I have stopped working that many hours the last couple of years, I was a little nuts for working that much. And the other thing is that it took me fifteen years to get to Al-anon after I met my husband because I had no idea what alcoholism was, no one drank in my family growing up.
I also have been just sharing and then not looking back. If I want help with something than I will look back to see what others say about my share. Someone said this at a meeting once and I keep forgetting about it, it goes like this....What other people think of me is none of my business. I do read other posts and get a lot from different ones so I am thankful.
I have read a lot here and like they say in Al-anon, take what you like and leave the rest and I am the happiest when I remember to do that.
Glad you are back.
tiredoftryin
I can relate to what you said.
And as far as the spouse of the alcoholic doing more damage than the alcoholic, I don't agree with that. I know I have done harm by getting ill from not letting go and not detaching because I got to the point where I was not there for the last two children we had when they were in their teens or it felt like I was not as there. I also was workinig 70 hours a week as we were trying a new venture and it was an opportunity for us to have a bigger home and more room for our kids so that took it's toll over the last 13 years or so. So I guess I can take that stick out of my hand and stop beating myself up for being human. Although I have stopped working that many hours the last couple of years, I was a little nuts for working that much. And the other thing is that it took me fifteen years to get to Al-anon after I met my husband because I had no idea what alcoholism was, no one drank in my family growing up.
I also have been just sharing and then not looking back. If I want help with something than I will look back to see what others say about my share. Someone said this at a meeting once and I keep forgetting about it, it goes like this....What other people think of me is none of my business. I do read other posts and get a lot from different ones so I am thankful.
I have read a lot here and like they say in Al-anon, take what you like and leave the rest and I am the happiest when I remember to do that.
Glad you are back.
tiredoftryin
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 187
Hi Buffalo66,
Nice to hear from you. I got some tough too from a lot of folks here. Unfortunately, they were all right! I didn't want to hear it, we hear what we want to hear.
You should be able to get support here either way. A lot of people choose to stay, to live with the A. This should be a place where you can get help with staying and coping as well as with leaving.
Nice to hear from you. I got some tough too from a lot of folks here. Unfortunately, they were all right! I didn't want to hear it, we hear what we want to hear.
You should be able to get support here either way. A lot of people choose to stay, to live with the A. This should be a place where you can get help with staying and coping as well as with leaving.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
I think the way to look at questions like "Why do you stay with someone like that?" is - to look at it as a question to ask yourself.
That's how I see it: Not as judgment and condemnation, but as an honest question. That one hit home for me because that was one of the questions that made me start thinking about what I was getting from my marriage and whether that was enough for me, for the rest of my life, if nothing changed.
I'm not criticizing anyone for feeling hurt by responses - but I have in my six years here seen very little mean-spiritedness. So I can almost guarantee that even what we may sometimes interpret as judgmental is really someone's honest attempt at reframing a situation to help.
That's how I see it: Not as judgment and condemnation, but as an honest question. That one hit home for me because that was one of the questions that made me start thinking about what I was getting from my marriage and whether that was enough for me, for the rest of my life, if nothing changed.
I'm not criticizing anyone for feeling hurt by responses - but I have in my six years here seen very little mean-spiritedness. So I can almost guarantee that even what we may sometimes interpret as judgmental is really someone's honest attempt at reframing a situation to help.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Columbia MO
Posts: 1,127
I think Amy is right, as an ACOA I just wonder, how can you do this, I am not trying to be hurtful, or be a smart-ass, I am not trying to rub your face in your situation, I really want to know, how can you look at the mountain of evidence and make a conscious choice to jack up your kid, the person you profess to love more than anything in the world?
I asked my dad, why? Why did you leave us there, you had the opportunity to give us a better life and you just pretended everything was fine, he had no answer, be prepared to answer that question, I guarantee you it will come up, be ready!
I asked my dad, why? Why did you leave us there, you had the opportunity to give us a better life and you just pretended everything was fine, he had no answer, be prepared to answer that question, I guarantee you it will come up, be ready!
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
I think one of the biggest things I got from this forum was due to the tough love posts. That was, I had choices! Up until someone asked me one of those pointed questions I never even realized that I was allowed to take care of myself and to put me first.
So, even though I consider myself to be very strong in my recovery I still throw things out here so I can hear the collective wisdom of the group and to possibly be shown options that I hadn't even considered.
Another thing to consider is that sometimes the person posting was standing in your shoes in the past and made the same choice that you are considering making and how, at least for them, it was not a good decision at all.
Your friend,
So, even though I consider myself to be very strong in my recovery I still throw things out here so I can hear the collective wisdom of the group and to possibly be shown options that I hadn't even considered.
Another thing to consider is that sometimes the person posting was standing in your shoes in the past and made the same choice that you are considering making and how, at least for them, it was not a good decision at all.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
I had a hard time with some of the same things you are expressing Buffalo... In my experience though, in hindsight, I can see that the reason I felt so triggered by how things were said at times is bc I myself, deep down, was not happy and was confused and was aware that my situation was bad. Having that brought right to the surface was hard for me at times but it was helpful in the long run.
On the other hand, there are times when I have been weary, sad, and just needed to vent without tons of advice... Like Lillamy said... saying that right up front could help. People certainly are free to say whatever they will but I think most everyone would respect you asking specifically for what you need or don't need... And there is always the ignore button too if there are specific posters who are upsetting to you.
Glad to see you back
On the other hand, there are times when I have been weary, sad, and just needed to vent without tons of advice... Like Lillamy said... saying that right up front could help. People certainly are free to say whatever they will but I think most everyone would respect you asking specifically for what you need or don't need... And there is always the ignore button too if there are specific posters who are upsetting to you.
Glad to see you back
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
Hi Buffalo
I'm glad to see you here and totally know how you feel. I've had more threads locked here than anyone probably because my response to that sort of crap is to fight back and call it out. But, I also have PTSD and my fight or flight mechanism is stuck on "on."
Regardless, I'm back here too, asking for help. trying to be humble and working to be appropriate when I post as well. The wisdom and help here can be wonderful.
No one is perfect and the ability to sit behind a computer and spout off whatever comes to our minds without actual human contact breeds bullies, IMHO.
I'm glad to hear you're spouse is sobering up, really glad to see you here!
I'm glad to see you here and totally know how you feel. I've had more threads locked here than anyone probably because my response to that sort of crap is to fight back and call it out. But, I also have PTSD and my fight or flight mechanism is stuck on "on."
Regardless, I'm back here too, asking for help. trying to be humble and working to be appropriate when I post as well. The wisdom and help here can be wonderful.
No one is perfect and the ability to sit behind a computer and spout off whatever comes to our minds without actual human contact breeds bullies, IMHO.
I'm glad to hear you're spouse is sobering up, really glad to see you here!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
While I usually tend to be direct myself, I'm not a fan of 'tough love', not in the sense people use it on these boards. The thing to remember whenever someone tells you how to live your life is that they are usually just trying to validate their own lifestyle and values. People need to live in accordance with *their own* values, however, not someone else's, or they'll never be able to live with themselves.
If someone tries the 'tough love' thing and tells you how you should live your own life, especially if they sign their tirade with 'take what you want and leave the rest,' what you need to 'take' is that they are not, in fact, the paragon of 'serenity" that they purport to be, and then 'leave the rest'.
If someone tries the 'tough love' thing and tells you how you should live your own life, especially if they sign their tirade with 'take what you want and leave the rest,' what you need to 'take' is that they are not, in fact, the paragon of 'serenity" that they purport to be, and then 'leave the rest'.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 609
I can relate to near everything on this thread. I know people only can
speak from their experiences. Often times parts in both this section and the other F&F section are very triggering for me. It seems anytime I have tried to reply the OP changes a very important part of the story, making anything I wrote just a waste of time and space.
Only because this thread was made I'll finally state what's the worst thing I see here: where the original post is incorrectly read. I'd like to believe that's all it is. The ones in particularly that really bother me, are when the OP states how they've physically attacked another person. Yet for some reason, it gets twisted around to where they were the abused.
I've often gone back to read the OP several times after someone else write something that doesn't make any sense (like, did we read the same thing?)...trying to see what I've missed. Most every time, I've not missed a thing....I guess it's a case where you see what you want to see.
I've got to be careful of that myself....I see women as much more abusive than men. Both emotionally and physically.
Anyway, back to the OP: I'm really glad you made this post. So thank you for that....Because from my side of it, I want to give encouragement or offer a ear yet feel almost like that is frowned on here. Tough love never worked for me. Sarcasm, one liners, questions coming like bullets, can make a already bad situation worse. When you put yourself out here, looking for whatever, it can be really daunting to walk off feeling even worse.
I am sure most everyone is just doing the best they can. It's sometimes hard to not align the OP's posts with my personal experiences. To NOT give
advice.
Lastly - yeah, those old posts that can be pulled up as a "and what is different NOW", it's sometimes used pretty harshly. On the other hand, it's also really difficult to reply to
someone without knowing ANYTHING about their background.
---And that's why I like to live in the here and now and no longer read over someone's history. It depends tho' on what forum I'm in and what's my purpose for looking back.
eh....there's my thoughts. I also have a really hard time posting in general...so this
was very hard to write and not delete.
/hits Post fast.
speak from their experiences. Often times parts in both this section and the other F&F section are very triggering for me. It seems anytime I have tried to reply the OP changes a very important part of the story, making anything I wrote just a waste of time and space.
Only because this thread was made I'll finally state what's the worst thing I see here: where the original post is incorrectly read. I'd like to believe that's all it is. The ones in particularly that really bother me, are when the OP states how they've physically attacked another person. Yet for some reason, it gets twisted around to where they were the abused.
I've often gone back to read the OP several times after someone else write something that doesn't make any sense (like, did we read the same thing?)...trying to see what I've missed. Most every time, I've not missed a thing....I guess it's a case where you see what you want to see.
I've got to be careful of that myself....I see women as much more abusive than men. Both emotionally and physically.
Anyway, back to the OP: I'm really glad you made this post. So thank you for that....Because from my side of it, I want to give encouragement or offer a ear yet feel almost like that is frowned on here. Tough love never worked for me. Sarcasm, one liners, questions coming like bullets, can make a already bad situation worse. When you put yourself out here, looking for whatever, it can be really daunting to walk off feeling even worse.
I am sure most everyone is just doing the best they can. It's sometimes hard to not align the OP's posts with my personal experiences. To NOT give
advice.
Lastly - yeah, those old posts that can be pulled up as a "and what is different NOW", it's sometimes used pretty harshly. On the other hand, it's also really difficult to reply to
someone without knowing ANYTHING about their background.
---And that's why I like to live in the here and now and no longer read over someone's history. It depends tho' on what forum I'm in and what's my purpose for looking back.
eh....there's my thoughts. I also have a really hard time posting in general...so this
was very hard to write and not delete.
/hits Post fast.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
Thanks Buffalo...
...for this important reminder. I imagine I'm one of the people who often comes off that way. I'm trying to temper it, but in certain situations in which I'm truly trying to help but the person doesn't seem willing or able to understand I will probably still be direct.
I'm also direct with people, and you are definitely NOT one of them, who are as much of a know it all as me (or more-so), or who are as passive-aggressive as I used to be especially in their use of incredibly ironic oblique references on forums.
Regardless, I really appreciate your posts and your contributions-- especially this one.
Cyranoak
P.s. Take what you want and leave the rest!
I'm also direct with people, and you are definitely NOT one of them, who are as much of a know it all as me (or more-so), or who are as passive-aggressive as I used to be especially in their use of incredibly ironic oblique references on forums.
Regardless, I really appreciate your posts and your contributions-- especially this one.
Cyranoak
P.s. Take what you want and leave the rest!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 602
For what it's worth, one of the things I like best about this sub-forum is the critical mass of smart insightful people who can and will call BS whilst offering support. When I was going through hard times it was helpful to have people who've lived with alkies call me out on how I was kidding myself and point out some hard truths. Not that I ended up agreeing with everything, but I would a thousand times rather have that than a bunch of vague platitudes.
WRT people saying, "So what are you going to do about it?" or "How long are you going to put up with that?" At first I too inferred a pissy, derisive tone to these questions. With time, however, I came to think that most of these are honest questions, rhetorical ones you don't have to answer. It's just meant to provoke thought.
WRT people saying, "So what are you going to do about it?" or "How long are you going to put up with that?" At first I too inferred a pissy, derisive tone to these questions. With time, however, I came to think that most of these are honest questions, rhetorical ones you don't have to answer. It's just meant to provoke thought.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,118
I haven't posted much, either, for many of the reasons you spoke of, B66. I do lurk a lot. But sometimes I stop myself from posting, especially if I've had a tough day/weekend, because I anticipate the "why are you still with him" responses. To be honest, sometimes I don't post because I don't want to be faced with that question and forced to answer it. But other times, I don't really feel like having to explain my decisions, especially when I really feel they are the right ones for me at this moment.
When I read new posts from others, I like reading the tough answers and I think that in particular the newcomers need to be faced with the questions that we don't always like hearing, never mind answering. Sometimes I read the responses to those first posts and cheer on the tough love, knowing that it's so hard for us see our lives clearly, especially when you're in the thick of all the muck, and it really "takes a village" to hold the mirror up to motivate us to crawl out.
As I continue to post, I hope that I can be that mirror to some, without being judgmental or making assumptions that I know what's best for them.
Thanks for sharing how you feel--it's important for the community to hear it.
When I read new posts from others, I like reading the tough answers and I think that in particular the newcomers need to be faced with the questions that we don't always like hearing, never mind answering. Sometimes I read the responses to those first posts and cheer on the tough love, knowing that it's so hard for us see our lives clearly, especially when you're in the thick of all the muck, and it really "takes a village" to hold the mirror up to motivate us to crawl out.
As I continue to post, I hope that I can be that mirror to some, without being judgmental or making assumptions that I know what's best for them.
Thanks for sharing how you feel--it's important for the community to hear it.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 447
It's not that we are in denial.
We know what is coming. How our lives will be...it's just OUR addiction to our Alcoholic is SO strong. We can't let go.
We want to. and because we don't want anyone else in our pain we are sometimes hardcore... I personally openly tell posters to cut and run if they can. EVERY.SINGLE.TIME.
Not because I'm mean and heartless but because I want better for them.
I want better for ME...but I just can't cut the strings yet.
so do as I say..not as I do...so I won't apologize for continuing to push people to leave...as I gain strength from those who push ME to leave. Even though I'm not quite ready yet.
We know what is coming. How our lives will be...it's just OUR addiction to our Alcoholic is SO strong. We can't let go.
We want to. and because we don't want anyone else in our pain we are sometimes hardcore... I personally openly tell posters to cut and run if they can. EVERY.SINGLE.TIME.
Not because I'm mean and heartless but because I want better for them.
I want better for ME...but I just can't cut the strings yet.
so do as I say..not as I do...so I won't apologize for continuing to push people to leave...as I gain strength from those who push ME to leave. Even though I'm not quite ready yet.
Lord Have Mercy
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 242
This is a great thread. We are all riding a roller coaster of emotion. Some of us are on the upswing and some are going down hard. I do trust that everyone means well. For example, when I read a post like "I just met this girl and she drinks 2 bottles of wine per day, do you think she's an alcoholic and should I marry her?" -- I (having 17 years AW experience) want to say: RUN FOR YOUR LIFE. I don't know what makes me want to say it, but I sure do want to say it!
Also, some of us have escaped the bear trap of being married to an A -- and in the delirium of tasting sweet freedom -- we want other people to feel as good as we do!
It's all over the map. Take what you like, and leave the rest.
BTW, most of the tough comments I have received, have been right. But that didn't keep me from feeling resentful, like, "what do YOU know?!?"
This forum has more real situations and more honesty than any other resource I have ever found on or off the net, for a person who is married or attached to an A.
Lord have mercy on us all ...
Also, some of us have escaped the bear trap of being married to an A -- and in the delirium of tasting sweet freedom -- we want other people to feel as good as we do!
It's all over the map. Take what you like, and leave the rest.
BTW, most of the tough comments I have received, have been right. But that didn't keep me from feeling resentful, like, "what do YOU know?!?"
This forum has more real situations and more honesty than any other resource I have ever found on or off the net, for a person who is married or attached to an A.
Lord have mercy on us all ...
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 447
I get iritated when a recovering A comes on here and tries to justify their A behaviors...
and I don't mean..those who are sincere in their pain/suffering. Maybe because I just can't deal with my own anger and fear in my own personal situation...but it just really really bugs me...I see this as my safe haven from A's....I just don't like them posting here about their A exploits... as a Alanon type member yes, I am fine with that..but when it turns to being about their Alcoholism...it really annoys me.
I've gotten so I know certain posters by name and avoid their posts. I don't want to be mean...they are in their own pain...but I personally don't think THIS is the forum they should be seeking absolution.
and I don't mean..those who are sincere in their pain/suffering. Maybe because I just can't deal with my own anger and fear in my own personal situation...but it just really really bugs me...I see this as my safe haven from A's....I just don't like them posting here about their A exploits... as a Alanon type member yes, I am fine with that..but when it turns to being about their Alcoholism...it really annoys me.
I've gotten so I know certain posters by name and avoid their posts. I don't want to be mean...they are in their own pain...but I personally don't think THIS is the forum they should be seeking absolution.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 130
I know I've run into quite a few people who come across as very judgmental and condemning to me, too -- but I do try to bear in mind that they've been through the same types of pain and suffering that I've had, for very similar reasons, and in some cases it was much more out of control, lasted longer, or had a lot more negative consequences. Honestly, I stopped talking to a lot of my family about anything to do with alcoholism, because it was always, "You should, you should...why haven't you just thrown him out? You don't deserve that, you shouldn't put up with it, you need to change right now, you're being a horrible parent by loving that kind of man/" and so on...and I run into that here sometimes too.
I guess what has helped me here is to try to see past the really judgmental comments to what kind of experiences might have inspired them...and when I see "you should" I try to read it "I should have." That seems to be what people really mean..."I should have handled my life differently, and your situation sounds similar."
There are some people who have been incredibly helpful and supportive, and have really helped reinforce some of the good habits I've been trying to work on. The biggie for me has been abdicating any kind of control over the situation, as well as recognizing that his drinking isn't about me. For people who haven't been around alcoholics, it seems perfectly natural to say that, "You shouldn't put up with him treating you like that." Here, there are those who realize that he didn't have me in mind at all when he passed out before that holiday meal, or got so drunk he urinated in public, or fell and put a hole in the wall while drunk. I also try to bear in mind that there are people whose A turned extremely violent, or who had a life-threatening incident due to alcohol, or something else that was very traumatic to them, so it's hard not to draw a hard line for others who seem to be heading in the same direction.
And yes, I'm a parent who continually draws fire on here because I don't currently plan to leave my AH. However, only I know my situation, and only I can understand my boundaries. Beyond that, it's learning something about what has happened to others and trying to incorporate that into my big-picture thinking about the world, and trying really hard not to let the biting comments knock me down even further than I already am when I post already hurting.
Hope some of this makes sense -- it's 3:30 a.m., so I might be the only one who can decipher what I'm thinking. AH had his DUI hearing today, so my brain is all over the place :P.
I guess what has helped me here is to try to see past the really judgmental comments to what kind of experiences might have inspired them...and when I see "you should" I try to read it "I should have." That seems to be what people really mean..."I should have handled my life differently, and your situation sounds similar."
There are some people who have been incredibly helpful and supportive, and have really helped reinforce some of the good habits I've been trying to work on. The biggie for me has been abdicating any kind of control over the situation, as well as recognizing that his drinking isn't about me. For people who haven't been around alcoholics, it seems perfectly natural to say that, "You shouldn't put up with him treating you like that." Here, there are those who realize that he didn't have me in mind at all when he passed out before that holiday meal, or got so drunk he urinated in public, or fell and put a hole in the wall while drunk. I also try to bear in mind that there are people whose A turned extremely violent, or who had a life-threatening incident due to alcohol, or something else that was very traumatic to them, so it's hard not to draw a hard line for others who seem to be heading in the same direction.
And yes, I'm a parent who continually draws fire on here because I don't currently plan to leave my AH. However, only I know my situation, and only I can understand my boundaries. Beyond that, it's learning something about what has happened to others and trying to incorporate that into my big-picture thinking about the world, and trying really hard not to let the biting comments knock me down even further than I already am when I post already hurting.
Hope some of this makes sense -- it's 3:30 a.m., so I might be the only one who can decipher what I'm thinking. AH had his DUI hearing today, so my brain is all over the place :P.
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