"no one is giving him a chance"
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Hi XXXXXXXXX,
I have been where you and have some ESH for you... I read your previous posts and have a little insight into your core belief systems and how that may influence how you feel and think about this man.
Disclaimer: XXXXXXX is a Christian and her father is a pastor and so my responses to her are going to be in a Christian context but the message is universal so please feel free to exchange Jesus for your own HP ... but my anonymous HP is Jesus C. and what he taught is VERY HEALTHY stuff for believers and followers of all religions!
Our God is a Prodigal God... the God of second chances and third and fourth and fifth and on and on... however there is a huge difference between asking someone to forgive us and real repentence which is an about face change of direction in action and behaviors!
When God's people are in rebellion and sin he very often went NC... even let them get carried off into captivity by the bullies of the day... Babylonians or whoever. When they TRULY repented he would rescue them and once again SET BOUNDARIES that they were to live by.
God's people live in community and LOOK for fruit ... not talk. We love, do not judge the person but condemn the sin and point the way out of the destructive lifestyle and choices.
Fruit checking is a good thing. Don't know your guy but I know mine and he used to be born again lazy if he thinks he can get away with it... you know the kind... that thin veneer and got the christianeze down pat but doesn't live what he preaches. The yuck that turns many people off from some confessing Christians and "religion" even though they have no problem with the concept of a living God!
Well... long story short seperation and even DIVORCE can be redemptive and God can use it to bring someone to repentence through the valley or bottom.
My A got when he had a "dark night of the soul" while he was NC with me and just about everybody else... he had been in deep denail and drinking himself to death. After the night he surrendered he got in REAL recovery and REAL spiritual connection with his HP (Jesus C) and is now active in AA and working on his issues everyday. Had I not dumped him on his silly hard head he would happily kept trying to keep the status quo and his comfy spot on the couch sneaking booze whenever he could.
My letting him sink and God using that time in NC was INSTRUMENTAL in his calling out to God FOR REAL instead of all the con game he had been running... he was a Jedi Master of Manipulation!
So... if your A wants to REALLY get sober and REALLY get sober then there is path of HOPE ... which is SURRENDER to God completely absolutely and 150% and that means LETTING GO of you completely until he hears from GOD and you hear from GOD that you are supposed to consider reconciliation!
God believes in discipleship... which is the same as a SPONSOR who is spiritually mature. Does he have one? Does he go to Christian counseling? Is he attending meetings? AA or Celebrate Recovery? Is he reading books... lots of them? Like on relationship building.. addiction... self help?
HOw about the Bible?????? Is he is a bible study? Is he plugged into somewhere? I personally am a simple church person and am OK with house church or bible studies with mature grounded people helping eachother to be transparent and accountible? But if he is not doing that is attending a brick and mortar church somewhere?
We are to be salt and light... but Jesus was pretty darn salty. Cultural Christianity wants us to focus on all the comfy things Jesus said and did but he was a salty guy who dished out truth and peoiples lives were forever changed who FOLLOWED him and what He taught.
If we know Him and follow Him we would have fruit hanging around us... they are signs of true repentence and relationship. If we follow Him we are not selfish or we are working on CHANGING by a program of action!
READ THIS: "I'll change - I promise" and send it to him along with a copy of my post to you... see if he ready to REALLY change if it means whatever it takes!
''I'll Change, I Promise''
I have been where you and have some ESH for you... I read your previous posts and have a little insight into your core belief systems and how that may influence how you feel and think about this man.
Disclaimer: XXXXXXX is a Christian and her father is a pastor and so my responses to her are going to be in a Christian context but the message is universal so please feel free to exchange Jesus for your own HP ... but my anonymous HP is Jesus C. and what he taught is VERY HEALTHY stuff for believers and followers of all religions!
Our God is a Prodigal God... the God of second chances and third and fourth and fifth and on and on... however there is a huge difference between asking someone to forgive us and real repentence which is an about face change of direction in action and behaviors!
When God's people are in rebellion and sin he very often went NC... even let them get carried off into captivity by the bullies of the day... Babylonians or whoever. When they TRULY repented he would rescue them and once again SET BOUNDARIES that they were to live by.
God's people live in community and LOOK for fruit ... not talk. We love, do not judge the person but condemn the sin and point the way out of the destructive lifestyle and choices.
Fruit checking is a good thing. Don't know your guy but I know mine and he used to be born again lazy if he thinks he can get away with it... you know the kind... that thin veneer and got the christianeze down pat but doesn't live what he preaches. The yuck that turns many people off from some confessing Christians and "religion" even though they have no problem with the concept of a living God!
Well... long story short seperation and even DIVORCE can be redemptive and God can use it to bring someone to repentence through the valley or bottom.
My A got when he had a "dark night of the soul" while he was NC with me and just about everybody else... he had been in deep denail and drinking himself to death. After the night he surrendered he got in REAL recovery and REAL spiritual connection with his HP (Jesus C) and is now active in AA and working on his issues everyday. Had I not dumped him on his silly hard head he would happily kept trying to keep the status quo and his comfy spot on the couch sneaking booze whenever he could.
My letting him sink and God using that time in NC was INSTRUMENTAL in his calling out to God FOR REAL instead of all the con game he had been running... he was a Jedi Master of Manipulation!
So... if your A wants to REALLY get sober and REALLY get sober then there is path of HOPE ... which is SURRENDER to God completely absolutely and 150% and that means LETTING GO of you completely until he hears from GOD and you hear from GOD that you are supposed to consider reconciliation!
God believes in discipleship... which is the same as a SPONSOR who is spiritually mature. Does he have one? Does he go to Christian counseling? Is he attending meetings? AA or Celebrate Recovery? Is he reading books... lots of them? Like on relationship building.. addiction... self help?
HOw about the Bible?????? Is he is a bible study? Is he plugged into somewhere? I personally am a simple church person and am OK with house church or bible studies with mature grounded people helping eachother to be transparent and accountible? But if he is not doing that is attending a brick and mortar church somewhere?
We are to be salt and light... but Jesus was pretty darn salty. Cultural Christianity wants us to focus on all the comfy things Jesus said and did but he was a salty guy who dished out truth and peoiples lives were forever changed who FOLLOWED him and what He taught.
If we know Him and follow Him we would have fruit hanging around us... they are signs of true repentence and relationship. If we follow Him we are not selfish or we are working on CHANGING by a program of action!
READ THIS: "I'll change - I promise" and send it to him along with a copy of my post to you... see if he ready to REALLY change if it means whatever it takes!
''I'll Change, I Promise''
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Thanks, More have arrived, but I am not reading them. I changed my iphone setting so they will not just show up.
So just stay NO CONTACT, and not looking at his messages and deleting them without reading them.
Love and hugs,
Guest
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 609
Emails/texts/phone calls.
They are scary...as the more that come in means the more desperate someone is.
I wish I had changed those settings loooonnng before I finally did.
As it was....she was dead within 4 days of me changing the settings in my email and going NC.
The emails stopped then.
///edited to add - I walked away from this and thought "ummmm- I don't think I was able to articulate what I meant. It's just a sad/fearful memory."
What I really wish for you...is that you never answer another text and moreso, that you never feel fear. Stay strong and keep sticking with the people that have it together.
They are scary...as the more that come in means the more desperate someone is.
I wish I had changed those settings loooonnng before I finally did.
As it was....she was dead within 4 days of me changing the settings in my email and going NC.
The emails stopped then.
///edited to add - I walked away from this and thought "ummmm- I don't think I was able to articulate what I meant. It's just a sad/fearful memory."
What I really wish for you...is that you never answer another text and moreso, that you never feel fear. Stay strong and keep sticking with the people that have it together.
Last edited by Shining~Again; 12-30-2011 at 08:42 AM. Reason: clarity
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 283
Hopeworks,
I needed that post. Thank you so much.
This is what I had tried to explain to ex. I have found no fruit, only words.
When we we first started dating, ex attended church with me, he professed to be christian. We discussed that after I moved we would attend the church in his community. He did this for awhile, but after the drinking started, I was going alone with the kids (my daughter and his son).
After I left, he told me that he was attending church. He would even ask questions and talk to me about the sermon. I found though that he never went. His son was here visiting and I took him to church. He told me that he had not been to a service since I left No. Carolina.
The rehab that he went to in Atlanta was not 12 step. They do not recommend AA, and since leaving there he has attended SKYPE sessions and spoke to counsellors on the phone, but that is the only support system they provide. I talked to his counselor a few weeks ago and found that he has not been honest with them. He had reported that he had only drank a couple of times, and did not tell them about his arrest in August. He told me that he had talked to them about that.
Prior to this, he had made promises to go to AA. I printed the schedules for him and he never went. After I left, he told me that he was going to AA. Twice he called and said he had just left meetings, he was obviously intoxicated so if he did go, he went drunk or drank afterwards. I found a picture on his phone of the AA big book with 3 empties on top of it. He had taken that pic and sent it to a friend. All while telling me that he was sober and trying. No fruit.
Now that he has moved back to where I am, he has expressed that he is angry that I haven't invited him to my dad's church. I have explained that I haven't because he hasn't felt the need to go to any other church. The Church that he went to when he was a child is next door to his mother's home. She is there weekly and would love for him to go there. There would be about 100 other congregations he could choose in this county. I don't see a desire to worship or trust God or be around Christian people, I only see manipulation.
I pray. I pray that he will find true repentance, real change which will last. And I know that not allowing him to put this on me anymore is important too. If he were in recovery, I feel like I would know it. It would shine. This is not what it would look like.
I needed that post. Thank you so much.
This is what I had tried to explain to ex. I have found no fruit, only words.
When we we first started dating, ex attended church with me, he professed to be christian. We discussed that after I moved we would attend the church in his community. He did this for awhile, but after the drinking started, I was going alone with the kids (my daughter and his son).
After I left, he told me that he was attending church. He would even ask questions and talk to me about the sermon. I found though that he never went. His son was here visiting and I took him to church. He told me that he had not been to a service since I left No. Carolina.
The rehab that he went to in Atlanta was not 12 step. They do not recommend AA, and since leaving there he has attended SKYPE sessions and spoke to counsellors on the phone, but that is the only support system they provide. I talked to his counselor a few weeks ago and found that he has not been honest with them. He had reported that he had only drank a couple of times, and did not tell them about his arrest in August. He told me that he had talked to them about that.
Prior to this, he had made promises to go to AA. I printed the schedules for him and he never went. After I left, he told me that he was going to AA. Twice he called and said he had just left meetings, he was obviously intoxicated so if he did go, he went drunk or drank afterwards. I found a picture on his phone of the AA big book with 3 empties on top of it. He had taken that pic and sent it to a friend. All while telling me that he was sober and trying. No fruit.
Now that he has moved back to where I am, he has expressed that he is angry that I haven't invited him to my dad's church. I have explained that I haven't because he hasn't felt the need to go to any other church. The Church that he went to when he was a child is next door to his mother's home. She is there weekly and would love for him to go there. There would be about 100 other congregations he could choose in this county. I don't see a desire to worship or trust God or be around Christian people, I only see manipulation.
I pray. I pray that he will find true repentance, real change which will last. And I know that not allowing him to put this on me anymore is important too. If he were in recovery, I feel like I would know it. It would shine. This is not what it would look like.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Fruit check: all bad. rancid in fact.
That being said Jesus came to seek and save the lost and that includes the scalawags, the con men, the ragamuffins, the tax collectors, theives, and even the worst of the worst lying drunks.
And He will save him... if your A really wants to get free! If he really wants to surrender God is a just a whisper away from the start of new journey of recovery.
Isn't that freeing? Knowing that God is in control and we are not that powerful and God doesn't need us to save someone? He actually has billions of other people that he could place in your A's path that will be a lot more effective than you can be. He needs a crusty old big book thumper and good book thumper that he can't con or bs!
Pray about it. It sounds like the guy needs a dump truck of salt dumped on his head and a NC goodbye with clear warning about violating it.
If you tell him to stop texting and calling and he continues it is a criminal offense in most states. Just sayin...
That being said Jesus came to seek and save the lost and that includes the scalawags, the con men, the ragamuffins, the tax collectors, theives, and even the worst of the worst lying drunks.
And He will save him... if your A really wants to get free! If he really wants to surrender God is a just a whisper away from the start of new journey of recovery.
Isn't that freeing? Knowing that God is in control and we are not that powerful and God doesn't need us to save someone? He actually has billions of other people that he could place in your A's path that will be a lot more effective than you can be. He needs a crusty old big book thumper and good book thumper that he can't con or bs!
Pray about it. It sounds like the guy needs a dump truck of salt dumped on his head and a NC goodbye with clear warning about violating it.
If you tell him to stop texting and calling and he continues it is a criminal offense in most states. Just sayin...
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
You certainly don't deserve this. I suggest telling him he has to PROVE himself to you. He has to stay sober for six months and no contact until then. And ask him to stop texting you until then as well.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 283
Thanks,
The ones I hadn't read from this morning were beginning to sound angry. They asked If I really was going to ignore him, What happened to upset me, and why I had "strung him along" for the past few months (which I don't think is true).
I sent back one text that said that I didn't want to talk, I didn't want to text. I wanted to be left alone and have the peace that has been missing in the past year because his words do not match his actions and attitude. I told him that I was going to block his number this afternoon.
He texted back to ask if I was dating someone.
So maybe he will never get it.
I will hold firm to my NC, beginning right now.
The ones I hadn't read from this morning were beginning to sound angry. They asked If I really was going to ignore him, What happened to upset me, and why I had "strung him along" for the past few months (which I don't think is true).
I sent back one text that said that I didn't want to talk, I didn't want to text. I wanted to be left alone and have the peace that has been missing in the past year because his words do not match his actions and attitude. I told him that I was going to block his number this afternoon.
He texted back to ask if I was dating someone.
So maybe he will never get it.
I will hold firm to my NC, beginning right now.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Originally Posted by XXXXXXXXXX 
He texted back to ask if I was dating someone.
No contact. Yep. No contact.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Originally Posted by XXXXXXXXXX
Thanks,
I will hold firm to my NC, beginning right now.
I will hold firm to my NC, beginning right now.
... now that you have truly Let go you can let God... remember that it is a journey and that you can have the peace that surpasses all understanding... you just took the first step.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 168
[QUOTE=XXXXXXXXXX;3222967]Thanks,
He texted back to ask if I was dating someone.
QUOTE]
First thing my AH said when I told him I was done with the marriage due to alcohol was to accuse me being with someone else. I told him I couldn't figure him out so why in hell would I want another guy! I told him I'd rather be happy and alone than in a miserable marriage . Eventually he quit drinking and is recovered 3 years now, but please don't let him play mind games with you.
Stay the course - NC! You deserve a life of peace and joy and only YOU can create it!
He texted back to ask if I was dating someone.
QUOTE]
First thing my AH said when I told him I was done with the marriage due to alcohol was to accuse me being with someone else. I told him I couldn't figure him out so why in hell would I want another guy! I told him I'd rather be happy and alone than in a miserable marriage . Eventually he quit drinking and is recovered 3 years now, but please don't let him play mind games with you.
Stay the course - NC! You deserve a life of peace and joy and only YOU can create it!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 447
He's still got you if you're still reading his texts and giving him the attention he craves.
he has to find his own way.
you have made your boundaries clear but it's up to you to enforce them.
Go NC.
If he decided to get help, and do the work involved in recovery....THEN contacts you knowing who he is, how to handle his feelings and has his life in order...still while attending a program and working on recovery ....then and only then do you stand a chance at a healthy relationship with him.
GL! I am so proud of you for walking when it became clear that he wasn't going to change. Many of us wish we had.
he has to find his own way.
you have made your boundaries clear but it's up to you to enforce them.
Go NC.
If he decided to get help, and do the work involved in recovery....THEN contacts you knowing who he is, how to handle his feelings and has his life in order...still while attending a program and working on recovery ....then and only then do you stand a chance at a healthy relationship with him.
GL! I am so proud of you for walking when it became clear that he wasn't going to change. Many of us wish we had.
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