Learn2Live

Prayers to you and your family too Seek.
Yes, folks who like to live at a certain level like to have other around them who are also at that same level. What easier way than to teach your own children to be there with you always? It's a vicious cycle repeated generation after generation. The bad behavior becomes accepted and expected.

Learn2Live

I guess I should add to that last comment, that I personally do not exhibit acceptance or expectation around the children of ANY dysfunctional behavior and actually will verbalize my disagreement with it. No matter what. For instance, when my brother thought it "cute" that when the child was three, she would get him a beer from the fridge on command, I let him know how I felt about it. And now that the kids are grown, I let them know how I feel about things when they tell me, even if it goes against the grain.

seek

That is very good. I was in a position where I was marginalized and disrespected, so if I spoke up I was made fun of or shut down.

Speaking of which: Does anyone know what to do when someone tries to shut you down? At TK, I was talking over dinner and my daughter started waving her hands and saying, "No, no, we are not going to talk about that." I didn't want to make a scene, so I said nothing. In the past, I have said, "You can't control me," but it never has any effect on her. I am not good at thinking of what to do with irrational people in the moment.

Learn2Live

Nope, I just don't invite them to dinner. You must be getting bored with my responses huh? Seems you had two choices and you chose the one I would have, which is the QUIETER one. Alcoholics are weird.

Cassiopia

Being an alcoholic I tend to have knee-jerk reactions to things, especially sudden changes or information. I have learned the hard way that it is absolutely necessary for me to take a "time out" to settle down emotionally and figure out how I really feel about what has happened. This can range from several minutes to several days depending on how I have reacted. My family have gotten used to me telling them that I will get back to them about my feeling.

I am still working on not venting immediately though. That can cause so much damage in my relationship and is so annoying when I have to turn around later and apologise and then try and explain that I do not really feel that way about that subject. It is so much easier if I just remember to keep my mouth shut at first until I figure out how I really do feel.

dollydo

Wow! I agree, this is one confused situation.

I don't have anything to add to the others posts...hope this all works out for all concerned.

jessiec

Seek, I am "seeking" to learn this one myself! Reading Codependency No More and talking to a therapist are really helping me on the subject. I'm learning how to just take care of me -- I am the only person I am responsible for (truly, I don't have kids, etc.). As for feelings, I tend to be extremely sensitive, emotional and tend to overreact. I'm really trying to embrace the idea that "nothing is the end of the world, except the end of the world." I can acknowledge my feelings, but allowing them to take over, get blown out of proportion, worsen situations, etc. is not helping me.

LifeRecovery

Oh my "time out" is because my knee jerk reaction is to freeze...like a deer in headlights, and then suck it up like the worlds biggest sponge. Somewhere in there the anxiety and panic sets in of "how am I going to fix this."

Most of it is not mine, and taking it on does no one any good.

The pauses have allowed me to step off the road and not even go there. One part of the vicious circle is broken.

I realized after my previous posts that sometimes I say "ouch" out loud too. I know that sounds strange but often it is to when I am getting emotionally stepped on and I don't know what else to say....and the circle starts again. The "ouch" gets me out of myself even if I cannot say anything else coherent, I have verbalized that I am hurt.

Seek the example you just gave is when I have been using ouch on and that seems to help me.

Good grief everyone will know who I am...the one in the corner saying "Ouch" out loud and making the T signals with her hands.

seek

Brilliant! Now, if I could only remember ANYTHING!!!!

I was thinking that I need to stay busy - because I have a mind that will not stop . . .I would love to be able to volunteer and help people who really need the help at a base level, because I have some drive to help people . . . and better to help those who need it/might benefit from it than those who clearly are not benefitting from it . . .

Thank you very much for sharing what works for you or your thoughts on the subject. I have many tools but old habits die hard!

Learn2Live

What do you mean you have a mind that will not stop? That concerns me because I have chronic, recurring depression and one of the signs that I have to look out for is a racing mind, thoughts will not stop, which especially affects my sleep.

Learn2Live

That is pretty strange LifeRecovery, because I do the same thing. Even when something doesn't physically hurt, sometimes more than others I catch myself saying Ouch out loud. Thank God it's not just me!

seek

Learn2Live - I don't have depression. I am a "thinking type" (in Enneagram personality system) - some people operate from their guts, some from their hearts, and some from their heads. I am a head type. Head types tend to worry - there is underlying fear . . .I am also very analytical (MyersBriggs INTJ) - so I am a thinking type and thinking types think . . . non-stop. It's good when I am doing school work or writing, but when in crisis, it is sheer Hell! No fun. Does not stop.

That's also why I need to find some volunteer work that can keep me occupied with "helping," otherwise, I am thinking and wanting to nurture (have a strong mother archetype at this point in my life - didn't have it when I was raising my kids, unfortunately!) . . .

m1k3

Seek, just some stuff that has worked for me. The first was to accept the fact that the only things I can control in life are how I react to what is going on around me and my attitudes. This means that I am powerless over other people, places and things. It sounds horrible but when I got it I realized that I was no longer responsible for how anyone was behaving, how anyone reacted to it and that I didn't own the consequences of any of it. It was like having a huge weight lifted from my shoulders.

Next, the thinking that never stops. A big thing I realized was just because I thought it that didn't make it true. Another was just because I thought it didn't mean I had to react to it. I learned to look at the thought and then let it go.

Finally as a Buddhist I picked up a couple of tools that have allowed me to if not stop at least turn down the volume of the monkey mind screaming in my ear. One of the best was to simply count breadths when I noticed my brain spinning out of control. What that did for me was bring me back to my center and let things slow down. Another I use is to view whats going on as a hurricane blowing around me and I am sitting in the eye of the storm. I watch what is going on but I don't get caught up in the storm.

I hope this helps.

Your friend,

seek

I am having a very hard time with this - Thank you to everyone.

m1k3

What part are you having a hard time with?

seek

I was operating under the premise that "You are only as sick as your secrets." My AD told me this week not to talk to "x" relative about the situation. I saw that as her being in denial and trying to control me - so I reached out to some other relatives and tried to "get everything on the table." In the process, I betrayed many confidences (i.e., secrets) - there were lots of lies I exposed . . . You are not supposed to do this - the lies are supposed to stay intact . . .It was not my business to do this . . .the tricky part is that I was doing it under the premise of "exposing secrets" so we would all be on the same page.

I really need some insight on this. I have had to apologize to two people already today - and I have a fear that if my grandson or AD find out what I did, there will be Hell to pay . . . so it brought up fear of the wrath of the alcoholic(s) . . . it triggered my abandonment issues . . .if you keep the structure intact, then the lies can persist - and I tried to interfere with that process, but I am not God . . .it feels very complicated.

How do you not collude with lies AND mind your own business (in a family system) . . . are you supposed to just shut up and not mention the lies you notice that everyone else is taking at face value?

seek

Oh, and speaking of "monkey mind," (I don't affiliate with any religion, but I have studied Buddhism and have great respect for the principles) . . .I am literally obsessed with this issue . . .it is on my mind, continuously. It almost feels like a drug . . .I have done things to help (bodywork and other techniques), but it is there, under the surface at all times. This pisses me off and makes me feel helpless.

m1k3

My perspective on the lies. It is my experience that I do not have to take part in the lies. It is not my job to maintain secrets or to protect anyone from the truth. It is also not my job to expose the lies to anyone else. I am not responsible for maintaining the secrets or exposing them. I do not own them and they are not my responsibility.

<edit> If someone asks me about something I will tell the truth. I won't keep the secret for the other person.


As for monkey mind, there are several good books and articles out there on Mindfulness. They are not religious and have good techniques for dealing with obsessive thought patterns.

Your friend,

seek

Good advice on the lies . . . I evidently don't have the self control I should have.

akrasia

What does she think?

The trick is deciding when we're investing in something, giving because we want to give, or just simply draining ourselves dry because we're believing in something that isn't there. Seek, maybe try spending some more time alone each day, doing something for you...