I can't ever trust a man again
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by mizserenity 
:lol I am definitely a dog person over a cat person...so I'm blowing your armchair theory right there!! Cats are too complicated for me!!
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Aw really, ferrets?? I didn't know that!
SUPPOSEDLY... dogs are "female counterparts" (affectionate...) and cats are "male counterparts" (aloof and independent)
"Theory" that kind of makes sense but I really dislike it, as if human beings were black and white...
I have also read that people that like dogs are friendlier than cat owners, but cat owners are more open-minded and flexible.
Anyway, I dislike generalizations......... "men are" "women are" "cat owners are" ... lol
Each person is special
Each pet is special
And then we have those that have many different pets! in which simplistic box do we place them...? lol
I don't pay attention to my cats when I come back home. They see that as friendly because I give them space and in turn look for me! currently one is sleeping next to me and the other one is sleeping on top of me, on my back, lol. They like to be on my lap and sleep close to me and leave their toys in my entrance and in my bed, lined up, supposedly because they can't hunt so toys are their most cherished belonging. And they want me to have it. Awwww!!!
I don't remember a boyfriend that left me any gift on my bed. Nor I remember waking up to a boyfriend hugging me. Both cats had one paw across my tummy when I woke up today. And none has asked me to iron their shirts.
Cats score higher so far!!
All members in my family including me are independent and aloof sometimes, but when affectionate we are very affectionate with each other!!
Sorry for my rambling post!! but I see owning and taking care of pets is a humane trait, not toxic codependency, of course we all look for love and company....
SUPPOSEDLY... dogs are "female counterparts" (affectionate...) and cats are "male counterparts" (aloof and independent)
"Theory" that kind of makes sense but I really dislike it, as if human beings were black and white...
I have also read that people that like dogs are friendlier than cat owners, but cat owners are more open-minded and flexible.
Anyway, I dislike generalizations......... "men are" "women are" "cat owners are" ... lol
Each person is special
Each pet is special
And then we have those that have many different pets! in which simplistic box do we place them...? lol
I don't pay attention to my cats when I come back home. They see that as friendly because I give them space and in turn look for me! currently one is sleeping next to me and the other one is sleeping on top of me, on my back, lol. They like to be on my lap and sleep close to me and leave their toys in my entrance and in my bed, lined up, supposedly because they can't hunt so toys are their most cherished belonging. And they want me to have it. Awwww!!!
I don't remember a boyfriend that left me any gift on my bed. Nor I remember waking up to a boyfriend hugging me. Both cats had one paw across my tummy when I woke up today. And none has asked me to iron their shirts.
Cats score higher so far!!
All members in my family including me are independent and aloof sometimes, but when affectionate we are very affectionate with each other!!
Sorry for my rambling post!! but I see owning and taking care of pets is a humane trait, not toxic codependency, of course we all look for love and company....
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 255
I've had cats and dogs... right now, we have a dog that has characteristics of both. He's a Miniature Pinscher, and the only dog I've ever had who will not come when called... unless you have a treat in your hand.
Other than that, he's quite lovable and friendly, as dogs should be. He's also a great lap dog, once he gets past his spastic phase. I know that he could be trained to obey better, but in our dysfunctional household, that's not likely to happen. In any case, he's a pleasure to have around.
Other than that, he's quite lovable and friendly, as dogs should be. He's also a great lap dog, once he gets past his spastic phase. I know that he could be trained to obey better, but in our dysfunctional household, that's not likely to happen. In any case, he's a pleasure to have around.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
We just got a dog. She doesn't come when called either - unless we wave a begg'n strip :/
She is a really good dog and will be better once I get passed the issue of being able knit a whole new pet every evening from the dog fur I get off the carpet - :shudder:
The boys love her and I keep telling myself carpets can be replaced and houses can be de-furred someday, lol.
She is a really good dog and will be better once I get passed the issue of being able knit a whole new pet every evening from the dog fur I get off the carpet - :shudder:
The boys love her and I keep telling myself carpets can be replaced and houses can be de-furred someday, lol.
Programmaddict
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: God's Hands
Posts: 217
Originally Posted by TakingCharge999
Of course there are wonderful men! spiritual, healthy, deep, knowledgeable, traveled, artistic, responsible, funny, etc.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
And you don't have to...
Hi Wendy,
I understand what you are saying because I've felt the same way about women. In fact, one of the irrational reasons I stayed with my wife is that I figured better the poison you know than the poison you don't know.
Then I had an Aha moment in recovery and realized I don't need to trust my wife at all. All I need to do is be honest with myself about what I need and what I'm seeing. Do her actions mirror her words? Yes? No? That's it. When she's drinking they don't match even in moments of sobriety. When she's in recovery they do, even when she had a relapse.
When she had her relapse a few months ago I came home from work, took one look at her and knew she had relapsed. This time, instead of denial and anger she looked at me with the biggest look of despair I have ever seen on her face and ran over to me and held onto me for dear life even though we were still.
She asked me for help, but the help she was asking for wasn't money, it wasn't to clean up after her, and it wasn't to protect her from some dumb thing she had done. It was for help regarding recovery, and that's help I'll give anytime. We decided to sleep on it and, in the morning, she called her sponsor and admitted her relapse.
She hasn't had a drink since then in my opinion, but I can't prove that and can't tell you with certainty that she won't relapse again. What I can say is that her words and actions continue to match, I see her getting stronger and stronger every day, and I'm feeling my love for her all over again (which had been overwhelmed and crushed by anger and resentment). Not stupid ******** romantic love and not unconditional love, but love. Just love.
I don't know if this helped at all, but there you go. Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
P.s. Love dogs and cats but if I can only have one it's a dog. There's no such thing as a trail cat- they can't keep up with a mountain bike. :-)
I understand what you are saying because I've felt the same way about women. In fact, one of the irrational reasons I stayed with my wife is that I figured better the poison you know than the poison you don't know.
Then I had an Aha moment in recovery and realized I don't need to trust my wife at all. All I need to do is be honest with myself about what I need and what I'm seeing. Do her actions mirror her words? Yes? No? That's it. When she's drinking they don't match even in moments of sobriety. When she's in recovery they do, even when she had a relapse.
When she had her relapse a few months ago I came home from work, took one look at her and knew she had relapsed. This time, instead of denial and anger she looked at me with the biggest look of despair I have ever seen on her face and ran over to me and held onto me for dear life even though we were still.
She asked me for help, but the help she was asking for wasn't money, it wasn't to clean up after her, and it wasn't to protect her from some dumb thing she had done. It was for help regarding recovery, and that's help I'll give anytime. We decided to sleep on it and, in the morning, she called her sponsor and admitted her relapse.
She hasn't had a drink since then in my opinion, but I can't prove that and can't tell you with certainty that she won't relapse again. What I can say is that her words and actions continue to match, I see her getting stronger and stronger every day, and I'm feeling my love for her all over again (which had been overwhelmed and crushed by anger and resentment). Not stupid ******** romantic love and not unconditional love, but love. Just love.
I don't know if this helped at all, but there you go. Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
P.s. Love dogs and cats but if I can only have one it's a dog. There's no such thing as a trail cat- they can't keep up with a mountain bike. :-)
Originally Posted by Wendy1967
So here I am...it's 2am and the jerk is STILL up screaming and carrying on. He's out of alcohol and I'm hoping that he's having a very painful withdrawl. Anyway..that's why I'm up.
Since I was awake, I began chatting to a friend who is on my facebook. At least I thought he was a friend. I met him at my last job. He's always been a flirt but I never encouraged it. He let me know in no uncertain terms that if I ever get divorced ...well, he'd like a chance to make me happy.
When I told him about my crappy week, he asked if I'd like to come to his house to talk. I said that while it's a really nice offer, I look like crap, I feel like crap and my eye is swelled. His response? Oh well, I guess we'll talk next week when you look better. Huh?
I was dumbfounded...but at least I know how shallow HE is. I also discovered that there's no way in HELL I'm ever going to allow another man in my life. All they want to do is insult and hurt you to make themselves feel better. It's even worse when you get older and you lose your youthful beauty. They can't see past the outside anymore. Why is that? Why can a woman continue to love a man regardless of his looks all the way through death..but a man starts to lose interest when she turns 30?
Ok..I've only had one man in my life and I'm being to over generalistic. Its not fair to the good guys out there I guess. I'm just hurt and I guess I'm venting.
Just ignore the ramblings of this very tired and exhausted wife of an emotional vampire.
Since I was awake, I began chatting to a friend who is on my facebook. At least I thought he was a friend. I met him at my last job. He's always been a flirt but I never encouraged it. He let me know in no uncertain terms that if I ever get divorced ...well, he'd like a chance to make me happy.
When I told him about my crappy week, he asked if I'd like to come to his house to talk. I said that while it's a really nice offer, I look like crap, I feel like crap and my eye is swelled. His response? Oh well, I guess we'll talk next week when you look better. Huh?
I was dumbfounded...but at least I know how shallow HE is. I also discovered that there's no way in HELL I'm ever going to allow another man in my life. All they want to do is insult and hurt you to make themselves feel better. It's even worse when you get older and you lose your youthful beauty. They can't see past the outside anymore. Why is that? Why can a woman continue to love a man regardless of his looks all the way through death..but a man starts to lose interest when she turns 30?
Ok..I've only had one man in my life and I'm being to over generalistic. Its not fair to the good guys out there I guess. I'm just hurt and I guess I'm venting.
Just ignore the ramblings of this very tired and exhausted wife of an emotional vampire.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 204
I understand completely, at this stage in my life, completely exhausted, trying to work a bad job, going through a divorce, trying to raise two small kids, and having been completely traumatized by the 180 my AH's personality took, I can't imagine EVER being with a man again. But I know I may change my mind someday, I realize that. It just doesn't seem like a possibility at this point. I suppose that is natural.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: bay area, ca
Posts: 87
Ditto on Ladybug's "I understand completely, at this stage in my life, completely exhausted, trying to work a bad job, going through a divorce, trying to raise two small kids, and having been completely traumatized". I am not ready to trust a man and heck, I don't trust myself yet either (to have good boundaries, not to accept unacceptable behavior, to demand and get what I deserve).
For now, I am happy to just have my two little men (my kids) and be alone and PEACEFUL.
For now, I am happy to just have my two little men (my kids) and be alone and PEACEFUL.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
All I need to do is be honest with myself about what I need and what I'm seeing. Do her actions mirror her words? Yes? No? That's it.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 362
Originally Posted by Cyranoak
Do her actions mirror her words? Yes? No? That's it. When she's drinking they don't match even in moments of sobriety. When she's in recovery they do, even when she had a relapse.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 46
My ABF, who I love very much, is facing a possible 4 months in jail for a DUI he was arrested for in January, and he keeps bringing up how I will probably find someone else. He even said I might end up with one of his AA friends who will try to be there for me during the hard times while he is away.
He really is crazy. As if I have any energy left for any other man, let alone another A. I told him this, and I said that when it comes to A's, I am one and done. He took offense to that.
He really is crazy. As if I have any energy left for any other man, let alone another A. I told him this, and I said that when it comes to A's, I am one and done. He took offense to that.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
Awesome!
Good for you! How disrespectful that he doesn't think you'd set your sights higher-- MUCH HIGHER!
Cyranoak
Cyranoak
Originally Posted by Shirt423
My ABF, who I love very much, is facing a possible 4 months in jail for a DUI he was arrested for in January, and he keeps bringing up how I will probably find someone else. He even said I might end up with one of his AA friends who will try to be there for me during the hard times while he is away.
He really is crazy. As if I have any energy left for any other man, let alone another A. I told him this, and I said that when it comes to A's, I am one and done. He took offense to that.
He really is crazy. As if I have any energy left for any other man, let alone another A. I told him this, and I said that when it comes to A's, I am one and done. He took offense to that.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
Posts: 3,424
I am learning that I don't trust myself (and my intuition, stomach etc), around others.
I always go for what I am told and not what I feel. It is getting better, but right at the moment I am a little nervous about what I am "attracted" to. Though my exAH got me into my recovery from this portion of my life it is not only with him that I get myself into trouble and override my feelings. I do that with friends, have done it with my FOO a long time etc.
I really appreciate Cryanoak's post about if what someone says is matching with what someone is doing. That was part of my struggle...especially with my ex.
I am not trying to say everyone is trustworthy. However if I don't trust myself I am in a lot of hurt for trusting someone else.
This is where a lot of my growth is stemming from right now.
To quote Madea (I have this on a white board on my fridge right now): "I would rather be by myself in the corner with a goldfish and a puppy and be happy." For me right now that is enough.
I always go for what I am told and not what I feel. It is getting better, but right at the moment I am a little nervous about what I am "attracted" to. Though my exAH got me into my recovery from this portion of my life it is not only with him that I get myself into trouble and override my feelings. I do that with friends, have done it with my FOO a long time etc.
I really appreciate Cryanoak's post about if what someone says is matching with what someone is doing. That was part of my struggle...especially with my ex.
I am not trying to say everyone is trustworthy. However if I don't trust myself I am in a lot of hurt for trusting someone else.
This is where a lot of my growth is stemming from right now.
To quote Madea (I have this on a white board on my fridge right now): "I would rather be by myself in the corner with a goldfish and a puppy and be happy." For me right now that is enough.
Programmaddict
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: God's Hands
Posts: 217
My program has taught me that I have choices. Sometimes my choice is to limit my choices. A choice phrased such as this thread's title seems to be an unfortunate choice to be making primarily because of the words "can't ever" (that is, never).
Many times, my choice to limit choices is best served on a temporal basis rather than on an absolute basis. It may seem a pedantic form of semantics but for me the difference in perspective can make significant difference in perception.
Just as I say that today I will not drink instead of never again will I drink.
Here, my deepest intention is to NEVER drink again but my perspective is much more temporal and my perception is that the goal is infinitely more attainable.
In regards to trusting a sizable cross section of human beings I would find it far more helpful to revise my perspective to a temporal basis rather than the absolute of "never". Primarily because I should hope to once again trust and secondarily because the larger the population of people I take issue with the more likely the issue lies within rather than without.
Many times, my choice to limit choices is best served on a temporal basis rather than on an absolute basis. It may seem a pedantic form of semantics but for me the difference in perspective can make significant difference in perception.
Just as I say that today I will not drink instead of never again will I drink.
Here, my deepest intention is to NEVER drink again but my perspective is much more temporal and my perception is that the goal is infinitely more attainable.
In regards to trusting a sizable cross section of human beings I would find it far more helpful to revise my perspective to a temporal basis rather than the absolute of "never". Primarily because I should hope to once again trust and secondarily because the larger the population of people I take issue with the more likely the issue lies within rather than without.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
I realized I have not trusted a man before.
Good luck to me trusting one.
Goodbye savings in therapy and more therapy.
You know what bugs me? when some men say "if you look a certain way and act a certain way I will treat you like ^$%#$$ but if you act like a decent woman I will be a gentleman and treat you well"
OK we all teach others how to treat us
But what kind of one way thinking is that????? shouldn't a man treat all women with respect regardless of appearances or behaviors???? that thinking seems to be "I am a horny animal, only if you tame me will I behave like a decent human being"
Sorry.
I am in Mexico, home of machism and nauseated by it today.
Rant over, thanks.
Good luck to me trusting one.
Goodbye savings in therapy and more therapy.
You know what bugs me? when some men say "if you look a certain way and act a certain way I will treat you like ^$%#$$ but if you act like a decent woman I will be a gentleman and treat you well"
OK we all teach others how to treat us
But what kind of one way thinking is that????? shouldn't a man treat all women with respect regardless of appearances or behaviors???? that thinking seems to be "I am a horny animal, only if you tame me will I behave like a decent human being"
Sorry.
I am in Mexico, home of machism and nauseated by it today.
Rant over, thanks.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
PS Let me recap
1 Grandad, mom's side: died before I was born.
2 Grandad, dad's side: left the family, my dad never saw him for 30 years. The last time
was on grandad's deathbed. Gone a few weeks ago.
3 Dad: left when I was 3. Has sent money but that does not make a father.
4 Dad's wife dad: violent alcoholic, wife ended up in crazy ward, the kids ran away when they were 14 and never talked to their parents again.
5 Sister's husband: looked nice but I saw red flags about his selfishness. He just had a kid but at the same moment he also wanted to study a masters degree so my sis is the one who worries about $$. Due to his job he is moving to Turkey/he expected my sister to arrive there by herself, to an empty apartment and set everything up so he can arrive there afterwards. And my sis is not alone anymore, all this with a 1-month-old baby. Jerk.
6 My cousin's ex: well they did not even had a relationship for all I know; her baby has physical issues, her dad does not even know the baby or cares.
7 My mom's brothers: treat my mom badly, empty promises year after year. Have stolen from her.
8 On the other side of the family another uncle also stole from my mom's first salary. He is a good-for-nothing. Sees what he gets from others.
9 My other cousin's husband: mistreats pets - the poor dog was saved by my other cousin, a vet. I suspect this mans hits this cousin too. Or if he hasn't yet, she is next. Its just how the story goes.
So far examples of good men are: my friend Ed, and my dentist.
Sad.
NOTE: this is just my experience, not saying woe is me nor "everyone else is the same". Nope. Just what I have seen and known.
Sheesh. What a beautiful family
1 Grandad, mom's side: died before I was born.
2 Grandad, dad's side: left the family, my dad never saw him for 30 years. The last time
was on grandad's deathbed. Gone a few weeks ago.
3 Dad: left when I was 3. Has sent money but that does not make a father.
4 Dad's wife dad: violent alcoholic, wife ended up in crazy ward, the kids ran away when they were 14 and never talked to their parents again.
5 Sister's husband: looked nice but I saw red flags about his selfishness. He just had a kid but at the same moment he also wanted to study a masters degree so my sis is the one who worries about $$. Due to his job he is moving to Turkey/he expected my sister to arrive there by herself, to an empty apartment and set everything up so he can arrive there afterwards. And my sis is not alone anymore, all this with a 1-month-old baby. Jerk.
6 My cousin's ex: well they did not even had a relationship for all I know; her baby has physical issues, her dad does not even know the baby or cares.
7 My mom's brothers: treat my mom badly, empty promises year after year. Have stolen from her.
8 On the other side of the family another uncle also stole from my mom's first salary. He is a good-for-nothing. Sees what he gets from others.
9 My other cousin's husband: mistreats pets - the poor dog was saved by my other cousin, a vet. I suspect this mans hits this cousin too. Or if he hasn't yet, she is next. Its just how the story goes.
So far examples of good men are: my friend Ed, and my dentist.
Sad.
NOTE: this is just my experience, not saying woe is me nor "everyone else is the same". Nope. Just what I have seen and known.
Sheesh. What a beautiful family
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
TakingCharge, wow, just freaken wow.
Since I am male I will offer sympathetic smiles from a safe distance. Your family makes mine seem somewhat normal. But only somewhat. My father was around my whole childhood except when he was out drinking. But since he liked to drink as home he wasn't out as much as I would have liked.
I have a very good relationship with my adult daughters simply because I followed the rule of asking "what would my father do" and then doing the opposite, or at least something different.
Your friend,
Since I am male I will offer sympathetic smiles from a safe distance. Your family makes mine seem somewhat normal. But only somewhat. My father was around my whole childhood except when he was out drinking. But since he liked to drink as home he wasn't out as much as I would have liked.
I have a very good relationship with my adult daughters simply because I followed the rule of asking "what would my father do" and then doing the opposite, or at least something different.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
It runs in families...
...we aren't perfect, but the men in my family are good men. Pretty much the polar opposite of what you are describing. Believe me (or don't), what you are describing there is not the norm-- it's just the norm for you.
I have a bunch of guy friends and we like women as much as the next dude. Not one of us, at least that I know of, has cheated or cheats on his wife. Not one of us has been divorced (except me), and not one of us is an absentee father.
We love our wives, we love our children, and that's the norm.
Take care,
Cyranoak
I have a bunch of guy friends and we like women as much as the next dude. Not one of us, at least that I know of, has cheated or cheats on his wife. Not one of us has been divorced (except me), and not one of us is an absentee father.
We love our wives, we love our children, and that's the norm.
Take care,
Cyranoak
Originally Posted by TakingCharge999
PS Let me recap
1 Grandad, mom's side: died before I was born.
2 Grandad, dad's side: left the family, my dad never saw him for 30 years. The last time
was on grandad's deathbed. Gone a few weeks ago.
3 Dad: left when I was 3. Has sent money but that does not make a father.
4 Dad's wife dad: violent alcoholic, wife ended up in crazy ward, the kids ran away when they were 14 and never talked to their parents again.
5 Sister's husband: looked nice but I saw red flags about his selfishness. He just had a kid but at the same moment he also wanted to study a masters degree so my sis is the one who worries about $$. Due to his job he is moving to Turkey/he expected my sister to arrive there by herself, to an empty apartment and set everything up so he can arrive there afterwards. And my sis is not alone anymore, all this with a 1-month-old baby. Jerk.
6 My cousin's ex: well they did not even had a relationship for all I know; her baby has physical issues, her dad does not even know the baby or cares.
7 My mom's brothers: treat my mom badly, empty promises year after year. Have stolen from her.
8 On the other side of the family another uncle also stole from my mom's first salary. He is a good-for-nothing. Sees what he gets from others.
9 My other cousin's husband: mistreats pets - the poor dog was saved by my other cousin, a vet. I suspect this mans hits this cousin too. Or if he hasn't yet, she is next. Its just how the story goes.
So far examples of good men are: my friend Ed, and my dentist.
Sad.
NOTE: this is just my experience, not saying woe is me nor "everyone else is the same". Nope. Just what I have seen and known.
Sheesh. What a beautiful family
1 Grandad, mom's side: died before I was born.
2 Grandad, dad's side: left the family, my dad never saw him for 30 years. The last time
was on grandad's deathbed. Gone a few weeks ago.
3 Dad: left when I was 3. Has sent money but that does not make a father.
4 Dad's wife dad: violent alcoholic, wife ended up in crazy ward, the kids ran away when they were 14 and never talked to their parents again.
5 Sister's husband: looked nice but I saw red flags about his selfishness. He just had a kid but at the same moment he also wanted to study a masters degree so my sis is the one who worries about $$. Due to his job he is moving to Turkey/he expected my sister to arrive there by herself, to an empty apartment and set everything up so he can arrive there afterwards. And my sis is not alone anymore, all this with a 1-month-old baby. Jerk.
6 My cousin's ex: well they did not even had a relationship for all I know; her baby has physical issues, her dad does not even know the baby or cares.
7 My mom's brothers: treat my mom badly, empty promises year after year. Have stolen from her.
8 On the other side of the family another uncle also stole from my mom's first salary. He is a good-for-nothing. Sees what he gets from others.
9 My other cousin's husband: mistreats pets - the poor dog was saved by my other cousin, a vet. I suspect this mans hits this cousin too. Or if he hasn't yet, she is next. Its just how the story goes.
So far examples of good men are: my friend Ed, and my dentist.
Sad.
NOTE: this is just my experience, not saying woe is me nor "everyone else is the same". Nope. Just what I have seen and known.
Sheesh. What a beautiful family
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