I'm just dragging it out
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Originally Posted by coyote21 
Great new word: Obfuscation is the concealment of intended meaning in communication, making communication confusing, intentionally ambiguous, and more difficult to interpret. Wow.
How did I ever get through 13 years of alcoholic nonsense with knowing this word?
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
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I don't know how to express in words to you how truly sick I was when I let go. It took me two very desperate years to do it. I was the closest to death I have ever been in my life, during that time. Mired in the disease of alcoholism and addiction, I could not fully appreciate the danger I was keeping myself in. But somehow, by the grace of God, I was able to get better enough to leap. With the support of my family, my therapist, an anti-depressant, and Al-Anon I regained enough strength to be able to look at my self and to accept reality. I rebuilt my social supports, read a lot of self-help books, and honestly, watched Oprah every day. Sounds hokey but that woman's show is empowering. Then, I decided what I NEEDED to do for my life and my future and focused myself on THAT. A couple months later, I moved and never looked back. I left him and everything associated with him behind for good. And you know what? He is STILL exactly the same as when I left him. Dry drunk, dry crack addict, miserable, blaming, complaining, still moving from apartment to apartment some 14 years later. Same job, same problems, same bad attitude.
Not sure this is the kind of feedback you wanted but there it is. I remember the day I saw that woman on Oprah who said, "Leap and the net will appear." I typed those words into the computer, printed them out in large letters and have followed them ever since.
Set your sights on some new sunrise.
Not sure this is the kind of feedback you wanted but there it is. I remember the day I saw that woman on Oprah who said, "Leap and the net will appear." I typed those words into the computer, printed them out in large letters and have followed them ever since.
Set your sights on some new sunrise.
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I always knew he was private.
I always knew he had a "don't go there" box.
I always knew he could get impatient and snappy.
I knew from early on he had hid and lied about smoking.
I knew he was moody/depressive.
I just didn't say that doesn't work for me.
I have this voice, "People are human. They aren't perfect. You can't get someone without issues. You need to work on acceptance of others. Everyone has issues."
I am still working on the self definition to say, "Too bad. This is where I draw the line."
I was asking HIM where the line is between his actions and alcoholism.
I realize in this moment that where the line is for me is fuzzy, too!
My line is about how much sad can I tolerate. How much snappishness. How much defensiveness. How much lack of communication. How much in secrecy.
I don't know where those lines are or should be.
Where is health? Just in me? What feels acceptable? What if I don't know?
It is amazing how fuzzy I am about this.
I always knew he had a "don't go there" box.
I always knew he could get impatient and snappy.
I knew from early on he had hid and lied about smoking.
I knew he was moody/depressive.
I just didn't say that doesn't work for me.
I have this voice, "People are human. They aren't perfect. You can't get someone without issues. You need to work on acceptance of others. Everyone has issues."
I am still working on the self definition to say, "Too bad. This is where I draw the line."
I was asking HIM where the line is between his actions and alcoholism.
I realize in this moment that where the line is for me is fuzzy, too!
My line is about how much sad can I tolerate. How much snappishness. How much defensiveness. How much lack of communication. How much in secrecy.
I don't know where those lines are or should be.
Where is health? Just in me? What feels acceptable? What if I don't know?
It is amazing how fuzzy I am about this.
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Location: central coast, ca
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Lines get fuzzy when we are in craziness...has the physical seperation helped at all?Are you feeling more peaceful(in general), happier, like you can breathe?What if he stopped drinking, but his behaviors didn't change?Would that be enough for you?
No one is perfect that's for sure, but do you have a partner who is fully willing to do the hard work of rebuilding a marraige? Is there any surrender in either one of you...you over his actions, him over his"problem". What do you want for yourself given how he actually is, not what he could be?
No one is perfect that's for sure, but do you have a partner who is fully willing to do the hard work of rebuilding a marraige? Is there any surrender in either one of you...you over his actions, him over his"problem". What do you want for yourself given how he actually is, not what he could be?
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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Beside the obvious alcoholic scenarios, the desire to NOT be with him physically has been a huge red flag for me. Not only do I not want to be with him in that way, I really don't enjoy his company. With the lying, the hiding, the craziness - I am beside myself. I will always love him, but I certainly do not like him anymore. And it's beyond just liking - the alcoholism has torn apart anything that was good here. The desire to NOT to have him around is propelling me and giving me courage.
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[COLOR="red"]Lines get fuzzy when we are in craziness...has the physical seperation helped at all? Are you feeling more peaceful(in general), happier, like you can breathe?
Yes, of course. He makes me nutty. When he is not around, there isn't anything to be nutty over.
What if he stopped drinking, but his behaviors didn't change?Would that be enough for you?
No. That wouldn't do. It's all gotta go. The lying, hiding, defensiveness, lack of communication, lack of ownership of issues, lack of work on the relationship.
No one is perfect that's for sure, but do you have a partner who is fully willing to do the hard work of rebuilding a marraige?
No.
Is there any surrender in either one of you...you over his actions, him over his"problem".
Nope. Neither one of us has BUDGED!
What do you want for yourself given how he actually is, not what he could be?
Now, this is an interesting question because a friend of mine was saying I was playing both sides of the fence. I was both adopting many progressive, recovery-type ideas AND I was still codie-ly trying to CHANGE HIM/FIX HIM.
Ah, shucks!
I do still want him to change.
I'm not sure what I would even ask for that would be measurable and non-codie.
I want him to not be so defensive?
I want him to be more open?
I want him to acknowledge there is a problem?
I want him not to lie? (good luck measuring THAT!)
All of that comes across as I don't like you as you are.
I don't know what boundaries I would even set that would work.
No clue.
Guess this is still a growth area!
Yes, of course. He makes me nutty. When he is not around, there isn't anything to be nutty over.
What if he stopped drinking, but his behaviors didn't change?Would that be enough for you?
No. That wouldn't do. It's all gotta go. The lying, hiding, defensiveness, lack of communication, lack of ownership of issues, lack of work on the relationship.
No one is perfect that's for sure, but do you have a partner who is fully willing to do the hard work of rebuilding a marraige?
No.
Is there any surrender in either one of you...you over his actions, him over his"problem".
Nope. Neither one of us has BUDGED!
What do you want for yourself given how he actually is, not what he could be?
Now, this is an interesting question because a friend of mine was saying I was playing both sides of the fence. I was both adopting many progressive, recovery-type ideas AND I was still codie-ly trying to CHANGE HIM/FIX HIM.
Ah, shucks!
I do still want him to change.
I'm not sure what I would even ask for that would be measurable and non-codie.
I want him to not be so defensive?
I want him to be more open?
I want him to acknowledge there is a problem?
I want him not to lie? (good luck measuring THAT!)
All of that comes across as I don't like you as you are.
I don't know what boundaries I would even set that would work.
No clue.
Guess this is still a growth area!
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
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Now, this is an interesting question because a friend of mine was saying I was playing both sides of the fence. I was both adopting many progressive, recovery-type ideas AND I was still codie-ly trying to CHANGE HIM/FIX HIM.
Ah, shucks!
Ah, shucks!
I have to agree with your friend. Although we only hear what you say about your husband, you have given him more than the benefit of the doubt.
He does not want to work on these things.
I think you are such a kind and thoughtful person, you expect these things from a man who cannot return the kindness and thoughtfulness.
Please take care of yourself first.
All of that comes across as I don't like you as you are.
I don't know what boundaries I would even set that would work.
No clue.
Guess this is still a growth area!
I don't know what boundaries I would even set that would work.
No clue.
Guess this is still a growth area!
your husband would be growing in the direction you set for him?
you would be growing by accepting unacceptable behavior?
i am confused. i thought your trip to the national park had cleared your head.
Beth
PS, I still want that job, I am a veteran. tee hee
oh wait, i forgot, i am permanent and total. can't do anything.
shoot.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Hi,
I too spent years thinking about was I right or wrong to question him. I would always talk w him about my feelings and tell him what I needed. He would say he would try.
Several years away from that I see what I wish that I did differently and that was to leave before things got really negative. For me, I wish I did less negotiation w him and more action for me. There is nothing wrong with taking care of yourself and your needs, whatever those are. If he doesn't meet those needs, then you can change things in your life to meet them. That is the wonderful thing about our generation, we are not trapped to men. We can make changes to help ourselves and maybe even find a partner later on who is better suited to help us meet our needs.
I no longer believe in unconditional relationships. I think they are toxic and are fantasy based. To me, I think we all have to show our partners each day that they are special to us and we appreciate them. This works BOTH ways, btw. JMHO.
I too spent years thinking about was I right or wrong to question him. I would always talk w him about my feelings and tell him what I needed. He would say he would try.
Several years away from that I see what I wish that I did differently and that was to leave before things got really negative. For me, I wish I did less negotiation w him and more action for me. There is nothing wrong with taking care of yourself and your needs, whatever those are. If he doesn't meet those needs, then you can change things in your life to meet them. That is the wonderful thing about our generation, we are not trapped to men. We can make changes to help ourselves and maybe even find a partner later on who is better suited to help us meet our needs.
I no longer believe in unconditional relationships. I think they are toxic and are fantasy based. To me, I think we all have to show our partners each day that they are special to us and we appreciate them. This works BOTH ways, btw. JMHO.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
It's all gotta go. The lying, hiding, defensiveness, lack of communication, lack of ownership of issues, lack of work on the relationship.
I have had to leave many a partner behind because they were just not in the same place as me, saw no reason to advance themselves, and were going to stay at that level of development no matter what I wanted. Let's face it, the people we call "alcoholic," who "cause" us so much trouble, really are just way behind us in the self-actualization spectrum. Some people just stop at a certain stage and never go further. Sorry to say I have had to leave many folks behind. Keeping them in my life just holds me back from being who I have the potential to be. You too.
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When I said "this is a growth area", I meant for me to, as Missfixit said
less negotiation w him and more action for me and taking care of yourself and your needs, whatever those are.
What are my needs? Where are my lines? What is acceptable and what is not and where is the line?
This is very interesting exploration for me because it is so fuzzy.
Learn - darn it all. You're right. My list of what doesn't work for me (in him) is significant.
wicked - to be honest, your "what happened? I thought the trip to the park cleared your head" puts me on the defensive. I feel I have to justify my stuckness. One part of me knows I don't. Another will now attempt to justify myself!
my move to the park has been very positive for me. But we are complex beings, are we not? Going through periods of clarity and befuddlement. I have been doing great, I think, all things considered. AND I am in a period of challenge, as I am moving closer to divorce. This is bringing up yet unresolved stuff.
I am imperfect and slow moving to grow. Aren't we all?
peace
less negotiation w him and more action for me and taking care of yourself and your needs, whatever those are.
What are my needs? Where are my lines? What is acceptable and what is not and where is the line?
This is very interesting exploration for me because it is so fuzzy.
Learn - darn it all. You're right. My list of what doesn't work for me (in him) is significant.
wicked - to be honest, your "what happened? I thought the trip to the park cleared your head" puts me on the defensive. I feel I have to justify my stuckness. One part of me knows I don't. Another will now attempt to justify myself!
my move to the park has been very positive for me. But we are complex beings, are we not? Going through periods of clarity and befuddlement. I have been doing great, I think, all things considered. AND I am in a period of challenge, as I am moving closer to divorce. This is bringing up yet unresolved stuff.
I am imperfect and slow moving to grow. Aren't we all?
peace
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
I am imperfect and slow moving to grow. Aren't we all?
sigh......it's a shame because i am so close.
you know i just remembered, I went on a long FTX when I was in the Army and my resolve was firm. He was gonna leave, the kids would stay with me, he is ill and wont do anything about it but lie. In my head it was over.
But, when I go back the resolve melted like a snowball in hell.
Well, it took a while, and just imagining how it would be without him gave me more strength.
Beth
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live
You realize what you're saying here is that he needs to be a whole 'nother person?
That was kinda what I was going for with the question..you can't plan a future or even a NOW with someone being anything other than what they are..not what they used to be, want to be, might be..what they are.And from what you are saying he is not anything you want or need now.
Last edited by DesertEyes; 01-01-2011 at 09:36 PM. Reason: fixed broken quote
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Originally Posted by FindingPeace1
I have this voice, "People are human. They aren't perfect. You can't get someone without issues. You need to work on acceptance of others. Everyone has issues."
I am still working on the self definition to say, "Too bad. This is where I draw the line."
It is amazing how fuzzy I am about this.
I've had trouble in some of my relationships as an adult because I try too hard to accept people no matter what they do. No matter how I feel when I'm with them. I sometimes try to change myself so that they will be acceptable to me. "1234, you're just too rigid - people are flawed." or "Think of the pain they've been through. Give them love, and another chance." Sounds like what you wrote.
Things have to get pretty desperate for me to give up. (claw marks!) More than once I've felt my body sort of took control of the situation. In one relationship my body inhibited my sexual response with a lover before I could admit intellectually that it was over. In another relationship it gave me panic attacks. Honestly, my "intellect" does me no good in these situations. I whirl into very complicated rationalizations and projections when a simple approach might do me good. I think I intellectualize to avoid feeling my feelings. As soon as I start feeling them, I deploy the problem solving troops, and I'm living in the future instead of now - with my pain.
I've heard people talk about questions that they ask themselves:
Does this person bring out the best in me?
How do I feel after I'm with this person?
If I was meeting this person for the first time, and knew what I know about them, would I pursue a relationship with them?
In hindsight these are pretty illuminating for me. Moreso than what my brain did for me. I haven't really had a chance to apply them "in the field", though. I hope I'm learning to see some patterns.
I'm glad you posted. You're thoughts have helped me over the last year.
1234
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Hi,
I hope you feel good where you are.
Another thing frommy past that I remember is feeling very comfortable to have a companion. I like having someone I like and love "there" even if they drive me nuts. This is a pattern I am really trying to work on to stop and move forward into a healthier and more satisfying place. It isn't fair to me or them. I don't know what it stems from, but I see very similar patterns in others here. "I don't like xxxx, but I love him so I put up with it." I would hate for someone to feel that way about me, so why do I think it is okay to feel that way about another or keep them in that role in my life...just to keep my need for companionship met? That is selfish on my part and I am working on it.
I hope you feel good where you are.
Another thing frommy past that I remember is feeling very comfortable to have a companion. I like having someone I like and love "there" even if they drive me nuts. This is a pattern I am really trying to work on to stop and move forward into a healthier and more satisfying place. It isn't fair to me or them. I don't know what it stems from, but I see very similar patterns in others here. "I don't like xxxx, but I love him so I put up with it." I would hate for someone to feel that way about me, so why do I think it is okay to feel that way about another or keep them in that role in my life...just to keep my need for companionship met? That is selfish on my part and I am working on it.
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missfixit - its definately something I have struggled with before.
I live separate from him now and don't feel that way, but who knows - if/when we divorce, I may feel lonely THEN! It could be I feel "safe" because I am still married.
We'll see.
I live separate from him now and don't feel that way, but who knows - if/when we divorce, I may feel lonely THEN! It could be I feel "safe" because I am still married.
We'll see.
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Okay, I'll tell you what you already know. 
It's okay to not want a partner who lies and drinks. It's okay to not want a partner who can't be open and honest. It's okay to not want a partner you can't be open and honest with. All these things are okay. It doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't mean you are judgmental or demanding. It also doesn't make him a bad person that he isn't right for you. And, it's also okay that neither of you knew all this before. We (hopefully) learn and grow as life progresses, and sometimes two people grow in different directions or at different rates. It's all okay.
How will you ever find out what life has in store for you if you don't let go of what already happened?
The reason life is scary is because it's an adventure. You never know what's waiting around the next bend. But that's also what makes it exciting, no?
L
It's okay to not want a partner who lies and drinks. It's okay to not want a partner who can't be open and honest. It's okay to not want a partner you can't be open and honest with. All these things are okay. It doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't mean you are judgmental or demanding. It also doesn't make him a bad person that he isn't right for you. And, it's also okay that neither of you knew all this before. We (hopefully) learn and grow as life progresses, and sometimes two people grow in different directions or at different rates. It's all okay.
How will you ever find out what life has in store for you if you don't let go of what already happened?
The reason life is scary is because it's an adventure. You never know what's waiting around the next bend. But that's also what makes it exciting, no?
L
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