Help?? Detach or Go No Contact from Children?
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Help?? Detach or Go No Contact from Children?
Has anyone had to detach or go no contact from a child or teenager who is being affected by their alcoholic or addicted parent? Or has anyone ever witnessed a child who acts like a nasty alcoholic or addict? If so, how did it make you feel when the child acted that way?
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
I have had experience with many, many students (teenagers) who are either deeply affected by parents' addictions, or who are addicts themselves. Very few of them have been mean and nasty, but I can think of 3 or 4 offhand who were awful.
The mean and nasty ones will always push the limits (boundaries) of teachers in a classroom. I'm a very fair but firm teacher, and I have a lot of fun with my students, but my bottom line is when a student disrupts my classroom, they have lost their right to be there.
We have great principals who don't hesitate to back us up when we need to have a student removed. I have had to kick kids out a few times in the last few years. One was permanently removed because she was so vile (drug addict and incredibly mean) but the rest all came to respect my classroom boundaries and we ended up getting along very well.
How does it make me feel? I've learned to take none of it personally which helps me to enforce my boundaries. The greatest gift I can give them is to make them responsible for their behavior and show them how it affects not just themselves, but the people around them. Every kid in my classroom has a right to learn, and it's my responsibility to provide a safe environment for them. So, hey, Joe Schmuck, if you're going to be a jerk just because you've got a rough life, I'm sorry you're hurting, but I can't let you disrupt others rights just because you need attention.
I don't ever, ever lose my temper with a student like that. I stay calm. I let them know that I care about them, and that I have compassion and understanding but that they've lost their right to be in my classroom for the day, or longer if needed.
I don't know your situation, or if any of my experience relates, but I do know that kids who are hurting need a lot of love, or discipline handed out with love.
The mean and nasty ones will always push the limits (boundaries) of teachers in a classroom. I'm a very fair but firm teacher, and I have a lot of fun with my students, but my bottom line is when a student disrupts my classroom, they have lost their right to be there.
We have great principals who don't hesitate to back us up when we need to have a student removed. I have had to kick kids out a few times in the last few years. One was permanently removed because she was so vile (drug addict and incredibly mean) but the rest all came to respect my classroom boundaries and we ended up getting along very well.
How does it make me feel? I've learned to take none of it personally which helps me to enforce my boundaries. The greatest gift I can give them is to make them responsible for their behavior and show them how it affects not just themselves, but the people around them. Every kid in my classroom has a right to learn, and it's my responsibility to provide a safe environment for them. So, hey, Joe Schmuck, if you're going to be a jerk just because you've got a rough life, I'm sorry you're hurting, but I can't let you disrupt others rights just because you need attention.
I don't ever, ever lose my temper with a student like that. I stay calm. I let them know that I care about them, and that I have compassion and understanding but that they've lost their right to be in my classroom for the day, or longer if needed.
I don't know your situation, or if any of my experience relates, but I do know that kids who are hurting need a lot of love, or discipline handed out with love.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
I don't think I understand your situation..but I can say that my daughter has been very much under the sway of my XH and those x-laws and it has caused enough friction that I have detached.
Kind of easy considering she is not speaking to me until I do what she wants, which isn't going to happen.
LOL
I am okay with it. The first time, it tore me up...but this isn't the first time anymore.
I love her, I am hugely proud of her..but we can only pick a relationship back up when it is good for both of us.
and I figure she has a free pass at least until 30!
Kind of easy considering she is not speaking to me until I do what she wants, which isn't going to happen.
LOL
I am okay with it. The first time, it tore me up...but this isn't the first time anymore.
I love her, I am hugely proud of her..but we can only pick a relationship back up when it is good for both of us.
and I figure she has a free pass at least until 30!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 187
Originally Posted by Learn2Live 
Has anyone had to detach or go no contact from a child or teenager who is being affected by their alcoholic or addicted parent? Or has anyone ever witnessed a child who acts like a nasty alcoholic or addict? If so, how did it make you feel when the child acted that way?
It's sad that you'd have to treat a child, a victim, just like you'd treat an addict...this child is hurting so deeply and needs all of the help and outside influence he or she can get. I don't think detaching is the right approach with children, but that doesn't mean you need to put yourself in harm's way, and it doesn't mean you need to enable that kind of behavior either.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
I should clarify that my daughter is 27 years old, married, they built a beautiful home, she has a great job and two gorgeous boys.
I don't mind giving her space really...I know that when I was just a few years older than she is I had alot of issues in the mother/daughter relationship to work out and I was very angry for awhile.
I don't mind giving her space really...I know that when I was just a few years older than she is I had alot of issues in the mother/daughter relationship to work out and I was very angry for awhile.
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
The children I am concerned about are three children from different families between the ages of 10 and 15 who live with their alcoholic and addicted mothers. I know that the mothers are still drinking but am not sure if they are still drugging (cocaine and opiods). I don't have relationships with the mothers, but I do have relationships with the fathers (sorry for the ambiguity but I don't want to be too specific). They have gotten clean and are making good effort. The mothers are still stuck in unhealthy and toxic ways of thinking and behaving and I can hear their words come out of their children's mouths, and often the negativity and disgust are directed at me. It is very difficult for me to be the target and scapegoat of children who do not understand what is happening to them, whose mothers tell them details of ADULT relationships. They also want me to be involved with that mess and I do not want to be involved. I cannot take the toxicity, even if it comes from "only children." I do not like to be the alcoholic/addict's scapegoat through their children. 
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
I feel like I'm being manipulated by a child, who I KNOW is only repeating the awful words he has heard probably day after day from the still-actively-drinking parent. Ugh. It's so hard to wrap my head around this because I have never seen behavior like this from a child and it hurts to feel this way in reaction to a CHILD.
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 187
That is sad, and a terrible situation to be in the middle of. It sounds like these children do not belong in this household, a toxic environment for them indeed, and I would venture to say their mothers are unfit to raise them at the moment. You aren't doing the children any good by letting them manipulate you though...
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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Tough situation. Seems you already know what is right for you. Perhaps there is something you can do to make sure they are being taken better care of like call CPS (not sure if that is good advice not knowing the entire situation), but ultimately if it is bringing you down detaching might be the only way to restore your sanity. Best of luck to you.
2nd chance at a 1st cl*** life
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Jose, Ca
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Healingwillcome - I know exactly what you are talking about. I was one of those students and it sort of brought tears to my eyes to read that. I was the disruptive student or class clowns some put it. For me it started in the 8th grade. I had moved away from my moms house because she was getting very bad in her disease (alcoholism) and I couldn't stand to watch it. Living with my father wasn't any better, he too is an alcoholic but a functioning one. If he wasn't at the bar drinking he would be at home drinking. I felt that there was no love in our house being that it was just him and me and we didn't have the best relationship. I yearned for love and attention and I wasn't getting it at home, so I found other outlets to vent my frustrations and emotions. I started smoking pot and acting up at school. I was always a good student, honor roll active in school activities. I went from having a 3.5 average gpa in 7th grade and my first semester of 8th to a 0.5 gpa in my second semester of 8th grade. I was always getting reprimanded and my history teacher, who I can tell now actually cared had me go see the school counselor. I was to ashamed to speak about my problems at home, I was scared of what would happen. I remember distinctly one day in after school detention, which happened to be supervised by my history teacher, she had me stay late until everyone else left. She started talking to me about how I was hanging out with a different (bad) crowd of people and how my grades and class participation had completely declined. She commented about how I was one of her brightest students and it was a shame that I was not using my potential. The last thing she did before I stormed out of the room was she pulled out a copy of the school rules which we had to copy by hand in detention and she pointed at the word pot asked me if I was smoking it. I was scared that I had been found out and I truly really wanted to talk to someone about my problems but I didn't know how. I remember balling tears as I ran all the way home. I know that she cared and wanted to help but I didn't know that then. I know that the majority of teachers care about their students, that's why I think they are so admirable. I have 2 kids now and being that I've been down that road I'm actually somewhat fortunate. I'll know what signs to look for when they reach the age of curiosity. I'll know how to talk to them about it. I really wish I could find my 8th grade history teacher and thank her for caring and apologize for the way I behaved and for letting my grades drop the way I did.
Rising from the Ashes
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 451
What are the relationships like between the fathers and the children? Are the fathers concerned about their children and their home environment? Do you have access to the children through the fathers? If you have close enough relationships with the fathers, I would have a heart-to-heart with the fathers concerning the behavior of the children. The fathers may not be aware of the effects on the children caused by the mothers unhealthy and toxic environment.
You can always call the Children's Protective Agency if you feel the mothers' are unfit, or the environment is not suitable for the children to live in.
I would, at least expect the following important foundations to be instilled in the children:
1. Routine.
A reasonable routine of life’s daily essentials are important as being able to know where they are and what's expected of them makes them feel secure.
You know yourself that when you are unsure about any situation you may feel anxious etc. Kids (whatever age), know one thing for sure and that is that they are NOT in total control of their own life. However knowing what is expected of them does a lot to alleviate their anxiety, especially when they are at the age when they are ready to contribute etc.
2. Knowing the boundaries.
You might think it's a given, that they should know how far you can be pushed by now. When you ask them to do something or tell them, explain why it has to be done and what will happen if it is not done properly or at all, right from the start.
3. Learning Consequences.
It all goes back to sticking to your guns and making good on what you say, good or bad. If the children does what they are supposed to do, then they get good consequences, if not, bad.
4. Consistency.
Very important. More often than not you have to try and remain consistent in what your rules in your house are.
If the children don't follow these guidelines, then detachment or go no contact is probably best for yourself!
********************************
*****************************
If children live with hostility,
they learn to fight.
If children live with ridicule,
they learn to be shy.
If children live with tolerance,
they learn to be patient.
If children live with encouragement,
they learn confidence.
If children live with praise,
they learn to appreciate.
If children live with fairness,
they learn justice.
If children live with security,
they learn faith.
If children live with approval,
they learn to like themselves.
If children live with acceptance, and friendship,
they learn to find love in the world.
Dorothy Law Nolte, Ph. D.
You can always call the Children's Protective Agency if you feel the mothers' are unfit, or the environment is not suitable for the children to live in.
I would, at least expect the following important foundations to be instilled in the children:
1. Routine.
A reasonable routine of life’s daily essentials are important as being able to know where they are and what's expected of them makes them feel secure.
You know yourself that when you are unsure about any situation you may feel anxious etc. Kids (whatever age), know one thing for sure and that is that they are NOT in total control of their own life. However knowing what is expected of them does a lot to alleviate their anxiety, especially when they are at the age when they are ready to contribute etc.
2. Knowing the boundaries.
You might think it's a given, that they should know how far you can be pushed by now. When you ask them to do something or tell them, explain why it has to be done and what will happen if it is not done properly or at all, right from the start.
3. Learning Consequences.
It all goes back to sticking to your guns and making good on what you say, good or bad. If the children does what they are supposed to do, then they get good consequences, if not, bad.
4. Consistency.
Very important. More often than not you have to try and remain consistent in what your rules in your house are.
If the children don't follow these guidelines, then detachment or go no contact is probably best for yourself!
********************************
*****************************If children live with hostility,
they learn to fight.
If children live with ridicule,
they learn to be shy.
If children live with tolerance,
they learn to be patient.
If children live with encouragement,
they learn confidence.
If children live with praise,
they learn to appreciate.
If children live with fairness,
they learn justice.
If children live with security,
they learn faith.
If children live with approval,
they learn to like themselves.
If children live with acceptance, and friendship,
they learn to find love in the world.
Dorothy Law Nolte, Ph. D.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 985
Hi L2L
In my situation, my step-son's are adults and one had just become sober while the other was in his addiction. The problematic one gave his father he** and didn't want any contact with me - so I was basically ignored when present. But I often had to set limits in my home and how much time we spent together. At one point he became homeless and asked about staying and I had to say no (my AH was trying to stay sober and I thought it a bad combo)(luckily his brother supported the decision and all was well).
There were three grandchildren involved who seem fine, but they like with their respective non A parent.
It does seem to be a hard situation. And I think it is up to you to know what you want in your life and what your choices include. Mostly kids need boundaries and respect which I am sure you already know. It is also important to teach them how to treat you/others with the same when present.
In my situation, my step-son's are adults and one had just become sober while the other was in his addiction. The problematic one gave his father he** and didn't want any contact with me - so I was basically ignored when present. But I often had to set limits in my home and how much time we spent together. At one point he became homeless and asked about staying and I had to say no (my AH was trying to stay sober and I thought it a bad combo)(luckily his brother supported the decision and all was well).
There were three grandchildren involved who seem fine, but they like with their respective non A parent.
It does seem to be a hard situation. And I think it is up to you to know what you want in your life and what your choices include. Mostly kids need boundaries and respect which I am sure you already know. It is also important to teach them how to treat you/others with the same when present.
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Maybe this will make some folks here angry so I apologize ahead of time but I have been thinking....I am trying to make sense of MY situation and don't mean to insult andybody. Sometimes I think there are just some guys who are just not ever going to meet general expectations of fatherhood. At least not all of them. I hear (read) so many women on SR going thru all sorts of feelings, a lot of it anger, because their SO or XSO is not doing what they want them to do. I feel bad for the mothers and am so codependent I want to come over and help (which I actually did for many years, until I lost it).
But these kids. I feel so bad. Because it is their mothers' words and their mothers' anger that is coming from them. And I know what kind of people this home environment creates: People like us.
What angers me too is that these moms don't look at their own behavior. They think they are right because they compare and point their finger and continue to deny. And meanwhile their kids hurt. And I wonder if the fact that the mom's are drinking even has anything to do with it. To point at alcoholism would just be a diversion, I think.
But the little boy in my life? He is seething with anger and disgust at his father for the things he has been told his father has "done" in the divorce (which was not want one in the first place and gone broke in the process). He is being manipulated by his mother and does not even know what is being done to him.
And the older child in my life? I can just see that what she is going through right now is the end result of what has been happening to her all these years.
It doesn't matter who is "at fault" for what because in the end it is too confusing to sort everything out. It's just a distraction. I just wish everyone could just get along. But I know that is never going to happen
But these kids. I feel so bad. Because it is their mothers' words and their mothers' anger that is coming from them. And I know what kind of people this home environment creates: People like us.
What angers me too is that these moms don't look at their own behavior. They think they are right because they compare and point their finger and continue to deny. And meanwhile their kids hurt. And I wonder if the fact that the mom's are drinking even has anything to do with it. To point at alcoholism would just be a diversion, I think.
But the little boy in my life? He is seething with anger and disgust at his father for the things he has been told his father has "done" in the divorce (which was not want one in the first place and gone broke in the process). He is being manipulated by his mother and does not even know what is being done to him.
And the older child in my life? I can just see that what she is going through right now is the end result of what has been happening to her all these years.
It doesn't matter who is "at fault" for what because in the end it is too confusing to sort everything out. It's just a distraction. I just wish everyone could just get along. But I know that is never going to happen
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 985
L2L,
I am just going to respond as I can.
I do agree(but don't like it) that there are parents who either can't handle the responsibility, don't want it when they see what is required, don't want it but go along to please someone else, and don't know any thing else.
I agree with you that parents' issues should remain between the adults and not passed onto the children.
I recall ending my first marriage b/c of all the anger shed in the home and worried about its impact on the kids. It did affect them. But unfortunately we both continued it some after the D until one child spoke to me about it. He pointed out that I did the right thing in the first place to bring peace to the home - but then turned around and started up again at who? Someone who wasn't there anymore. He asked me to think about the role modelling for him and asked that I teach him something else. That woke me up!
I had to take responsibility for my own anger and the choices that I made. A wise person advised me that as parents - we are each to focus on our own relationship with the kids and not to speak for the other. In time, I heard my kids come to some of the same realizations without a word from me and opened a dialogue about how I coped with it.
I wish that everyone could get along too!
I am just going to respond as I can.
I do agree(but don't like it) that there are parents who either can't handle the responsibility, don't want it when they see what is required, don't want it but go along to please someone else, and don't know any thing else.
I agree with you that parents' issues should remain between the adults and not passed onto the children.
I recall ending my first marriage b/c of all the anger shed in the home and worried about its impact on the kids. It did affect them. But unfortunately we both continued it some after the D until one child spoke to me about it. He pointed out that I did the right thing in the first place to bring peace to the home - but then turned around and started up again at who? Someone who wasn't there anymore. He asked me to think about the role modelling for him and asked that I teach him something else. That woke me up!
I had to take responsibility for my own anger and the choices that I made. A wise person advised me that as parents - we are each to focus on our own relationship with the kids and not to speak for the other. In time, I heard my kids come to some of the same realizations without a word from me and opened a dialogue about how I coped with it.
I wish that everyone could get along too!
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Thank you so much for sharing Kassie. Makes me feel not alone. I tend to think what could I have done that I did not do, which is ridiculous because those were not MY marriages! I have been this way for a long time: Feeling guilt for things that are COMPLETELY out of my control, things I have had nothing to do with, things that have occurred in the world that could not be further removed from me. Still working on this.
I would just like to say WOW. Kids are truly amazing people sometimes. Can I please ask how old he was when he spoke to you about this?
one child spoke to me about it. He pointed out that I did the right thing in the first place to bring peace to the home - but then turned around and started up again at who? Someone who wasn't there anymore. He asked me to think about the role modelling for him and asked that I teach him something else. That woke me up!
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 985
My son was 14 or 15.
Both my kids are wise. Can't figure where they came from? Would say that important issues in parenting for me having grown up in a single parent hsehold with an addicted parent were open communication and respect.
I learned a lot from raising my kids and them raising me. I get quite frustrated with all that is going on in the world around us. I use the phrase, "we aren't in Kansas anymore" to put brakes on myself, but then maybe I am just getting old.
Both my kids are wise. Can't figure where they came from? Would say that important issues in parenting for me having grown up in a single parent hsehold with an addicted parent were open communication and respect.
I learned a lot from raising my kids and them raising me. I get quite frustrated with all that is going on in the world around us. I use the phrase, "we aren't in Kansas anymore" to put brakes on myself, but then maybe I am just getting old.
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
My son was 14 or 15.
Thank you Kassie and everybody who replied. This is helping me today. :ghug3
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
My kids got very hateful towards me after a very ugly divorce. One was 11, the other 14. Their dad and his mom told them all sorts of inappropriate and wrong things and poisoned their minds about me.
We had had a very good close relationship prior to that.
I just responded to them from the caring and loving mother place which they had counted on me before.
They were able to see I was still their mom and loved them and only wanted them to be okay and it smoothed over with time.
sort of. my daughter is going through another bout of it again..I did not engage in and refute the things they were told. I just came from "are you okay? Come here, I love you"
That won out..that and my actions.
We had had a very good close relationship prior to that.
I just responded to them from the caring and loving mother place which they had counted on me before.
They were able to see I was still their mom and loved them and only wanted them to be okay and it smoothed over with time.
sort of. my daughter is going through another bout of it again..I did not engage in and refute the things they were told. I just came from "are you okay? Come here, I love you"
That won out..that and my actions.
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