Last 24 hours have been rough
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 693
Last 24 hours have been rough
The last 24 hours have been a tad stressful.
Asked stbxah for our taxes so I can make copies and he basically emailed me bizarre incongruent allegations-nothing to do with me getting the taxes. Finally I just emailed him I was not going to pay my lawyer to get what I have every right to have and if he would not give them to me I would ask her to file an order forcing him to give them to me and asking the court to have him pay her fees. He emailed me back he had them and would give them to me.
Last night there were flash floods and the basement of my new house got half flooded. Nothing I could do but move stuff to dry places. This a.m. most of it had drained so I ran to the store and got stuff to clean and a dehumidifier (that I can't afford--but what am I going to do?) I'll deal with it when I get home from work.
Got a call from the preschool half an hour ago. My 5 year old slugged another child in the face and split his lip-WHAT? was all that I could say. Then they said he has been acting aggressively since last Friday. . am not sure what is going on. He has been having problems with the divorce but he cannot go around slugging people. He bloodied this little boy's lip and his mom had to come and get him. She is mad (I would be mad too) and said her son had been complaining my son had been acting aggressively toward him for the last couple days. The teachers say he has been sassy. Not sure how to handle this--he has a lot going on right now (he has RAD and PTSD on top of the other turmoil)-but he cannot just use his body when he is angry. I have been working on this at home--he has never done this outside of our house. I have a call in to his therapist and she should be calling back soon.
Called stbxah to talk to him about son's behavior and he did not call back so called him again (around noon) and he was just rolling out of bed. He could not deal with it because he had other things he needed to take care of (or as he put it, everyone wants a piece of me today). Told me he had to call the people who did his endoscopy because they called and said it was urgent that he call them back as soon as possible.
We have been talking about chaos lately and how many of us seek it out. I am not sure I am seeking it out in any of the above situations. What surprises me is that right now I would think my head was going to explode and it is not.
Thoughts are--you can't stop the flooding you can only clean up the mess afterward.
You are getting the taxes
Wait to talk to therapist about what to do about 5 year old son's violent attack on another child.
Not goint to do anything about the results of stbxah's tests (went down that road last week and things were pretty clear and what people said is definitely occurring--more health issues coming down the line). stbxah sounded very hung over--that is not my problem and he does not have the kids this weekend.
So the thing I am having the most difficulty with is son's behavior. I know he is very sad and mad that stbxah and I don't live together and he has finally figured out that divorce means we never will. There needs to be consequences for his behavior and they need to be fairly serious consequences with a large dose of love on top so he knows regardless of what he does I still love him--but that does not mean he gets away with it.
Has anyone else had problems with their kids to this degree? If so, what did you do?
Asked stbxah for our taxes so I can make copies and he basically emailed me bizarre incongruent allegations-nothing to do with me getting the taxes. Finally I just emailed him I was not going to pay my lawyer to get what I have every right to have and if he would not give them to me I would ask her to file an order forcing him to give them to me and asking the court to have him pay her fees. He emailed me back he had them and would give them to me.
Last night there were flash floods and the basement of my new house got half flooded. Nothing I could do but move stuff to dry places. This a.m. most of it had drained so I ran to the store and got stuff to clean and a dehumidifier (that I can't afford--but what am I going to do?) I'll deal with it when I get home from work.
Got a call from the preschool half an hour ago. My 5 year old slugged another child in the face and split his lip-WHAT? was all that I could say. Then they said he has been acting aggressively since last Friday. . am not sure what is going on. He has been having problems with the divorce but he cannot go around slugging people. He bloodied this little boy's lip and his mom had to come and get him. She is mad (I would be mad too) and said her son had been complaining my son had been acting aggressively toward him for the last couple days. The teachers say he has been sassy. Not sure how to handle this--he has a lot going on right now (he has RAD and PTSD on top of the other turmoil)-but he cannot just use his body when he is angry. I have been working on this at home--he has never done this outside of our house. I have a call in to his therapist and she should be calling back soon.
Called stbxah to talk to him about son's behavior and he did not call back so called him again (around noon) and he was just rolling out of bed. He could not deal with it because he had other things he needed to take care of (or as he put it, everyone wants a piece of me today). Told me he had to call the people who did his endoscopy because they called and said it was urgent that he call them back as soon as possible.
We have been talking about chaos lately and how many of us seek it out. I am not sure I am seeking it out in any of the above situations. What surprises me is that right now I would think my head was going to explode and it is not.
Thoughts are--you can't stop the flooding you can only clean up the mess afterward.
You are getting the taxes
Wait to talk to therapist about what to do about 5 year old son's violent attack on another child.
Not goint to do anything about the results of stbxah's tests (went down that road last week and things were pretty clear and what people said is definitely occurring--more health issues coming down the line). stbxah sounded very hung over--that is not my problem and he does not have the kids this weekend.
So the thing I am having the most difficulty with is son's behavior. I know he is very sad and mad that stbxah and I don't live together and he has finally figured out that divorce means we never will. There needs to be consequences for his behavior and they need to be fairly serious consequences with a large dose of love on top so he knows regardless of what he does I still love him--but that does not mean he gets away with it.
Has anyone else had problems with their kids to this degree? If so, what did you do?
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 693
Therapist called and said he gets pulled from school immediately because they will still be doing fun things at school and he should not be allowed. To let him know upon arriving at school that he is being taken out of school because he hit and hurt someone and that is never OK. There will be some chores done (pulling weeds, doing small chores around the house). No fun tonight and possibly no fun tomorrow. When he has finally figured out what he did was very wrong I am going to have him draw a picture or do something for the little boy he hurt.
It is very possible that the parents will say my son needs to be removed from the school. Pushing and shoving is one thing. Punching someone in the face and giving them a bloody lip is another. And my thoughts were where in the world would he even see something like this--and my guess is stbxah lets him watch violence on TV. Me--he gets to watch non-violent TV-WHEN I let him watch TV-which is not often.
I am still in shock that he did this. I know he is grieving but I need to make him understand that punching someone is not an appropriate way for him to deal with his anger.
Gotta go.
It is very possible that the parents will say my son needs to be removed from the school. Pushing and shoving is one thing. Punching someone in the face and giving them a bloody lip is another. And my thoughts were where in the world would he even see something like this--and my guess is stbxah lets him watch violence on TV. Me--he gets to watch non-violent TV-WHEN I let him watch TV-which is not often.
I am still in shock that he did this. I know he is grieving but I need to make him understand that punching someone is not an appropriate way for him to deal with his anger.
Gotta go.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Alexandria Township, NJ
Posts: 275
Dear W2K
All that punishment seems kind of harsh, he's only 5
My son didn't want to bathe and he HAD to wear the same clothes day after day UNWASHED. This went on for a while.
The teacher called - kids where complaining and didn't want to sit next to him cause he smelled so bad and then were calling him "stinky".
Yeah thanks lady like I didn't notice!
But I had be patient with him he was so fragile and quiet.
I think whether they act out or internalize their pain they respond best to just talking and being comforted, give them tons of love and just spend time making them feel important (even if the stench is crippling).
I think kids in these situations have suffered enough consequences.
Apologize on his behave and hug your child for like a whole day.
All that punishment seems kind of harsh, he's only 5
My son didn't want to bathe and he HAD to wear the same clothes day after day UNWASHED. This went on for a while.
The teacher called - kids where complaining and didn't want to sit next to him cause he smelled so bad and then were calling him "stinky".
Yeah thanks lady like I didn't notice!
But I had be patient with him he was so fragile and quiet.
I think whether they act out or internalize their pain they respond best to just talking and being comforted, give them tons of love and just spend time making them feel important (even if the stench is crippling).
There needs to be consequences for his behavior and they need to be fairly serious consequences with a large dose of love on top so he knows regardless of what he does I still love him--but that does not mean he gets away with it.
Apologize on his behave and hug your child for like a whole day.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Growing up, I hit (kicked, actually) quite a few people for the simple fact that they did or said something really rotten and pi$$ed me off. It worked each time (they never messed with me again and yes, of course, they were males) and I didn't turn into a violent criminal or anything. Not condoning violence but I agree with ChrrisT and Anvil. No parent or other authority figure intervened in any of these circumstances and everything was worked out between us kids.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
hi wife2kids-
i was grooving with you until you called stbxah. why did you do that? how is his endoscopy any of your affair?
if someone called me with an urgent message for xabf, i would tell this person to contact him themselves.
as for your son, i suppose if it was me, i would ask exactly why he punched the other little boy in the face. what was the other boy doing? and then i would talk to him about violence. i hear you when you say he was acting aggressive prior but perhaps there is a reason other than your divorce? as in perhaps he is in an environment where he feels he needs to defend himself? i would try to get the facts.
naive
i was grooving with you until you called stbxah. why did you do that? how is his endoscopy any of your affair?
if someone called me with an urgent message for xabf, i would tell this person to contact him themselves.
as for your son, i suppose if it was me, i would ask exactly why he punched the other little boy in the face. what was the other boy doing? and then i would talk to him about violence. i hear you when you say he was acting aggressive prior but perhaps there is a reason other than your divorce? as in perhaps he is in an environment where he feels he needs to defend himself? i would try to get the facts.
naive
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,913
W2K...I think you are handling all of this marvelously! I totally agree that there should be consequences for his actions. Taking him out of school for a few days or a week when he knows they are doing something fun sounds entirely fair to me. A calm conversation with him and appropriate behavior might be a good thing, too. True, the other kid may have somehow provoked your son, but even so, he needs to learn that he cannot use physical violence to retaliate.
Considering everything you've been through the past few days, I think you are doing a bang-up job! Kudos to you!
Considering everything you've been through the past few days, I think you are doing a bang-up job! Kudos to you!
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 693
naive-I have to tell stbxah all that is important-and the school called so I had to call him-even though he did not deem it important.
My kids have RAD/PTSD/ODD so what happens with them is generally very different than what happens with "normal" kids. It would take a long time to explain and tell you all that has happened in the time I have have my kids with me. They were severely neglected physically and emotionally the first year of their lives. So much of what they do--it is not on purpose. Their brains are not wired the same way because important neurologicial pathways that develop that first year of life-did not happen. So that is what I am trying to do. I became a therapeutic parent the day I found out what was going on with older DS. A googy way to explain it is they come with an entirely different set of operating instructions. I don't say this lightly or in jest. I love my kids from the depths of my soul and I hope to he** I will get them healthy. But, I also know what they are capable of due to thier issues and crazy lying, controlling everything and creating chaos is what they do.
Anyway, younger DS, after sitting in a chair saying nothing for 1 hour and 45 minutes said what happened-and it was as the teacher had said. So-bad thing is that he did it. Phenomenal thing-he admitted it. Took close to 2 hours but he did. How many 5 year old kids do you know who would sit in a chair that long saying nothing--just to keep being in charge--rather than just saying what happened.
BUT, I gotta say--although the "firsts" I have with my kids are different--they are huge. This is the first time younger DS has told the truth. So, not happy he did what he did-but very happy that he is getting better AND he knew what he needed to do to fix it.
My kids have RAD/PTSD/ODD so what happens with them is generally very different than what happens with "normal" kids. It would take a long time to explain and tell you all that has happened in the time I have have my kids with me. They were severely neglected physically and emotionally the first year of their lives. So much of what they do--it is not on purpose. Their brains are not wired the same way because important neurologicial pathways that develop that first year of life-did not happen. So that is what I am trying to do. I became a therapeutic parent the day I found out what was going on with older DS. A googy way to explain it is they come with an entirely different set of operating instructions. I don't say this lightly or in jest. I love my kids from the depths of my soul and I hope to he** I will get them healthy. But, I also know what they are capable of due to thier issues and crazy lying, controlling everything and creating chaos is what they do.
Anyway, younger DS, after sitting in a chair saying nothing for 1 hour and 45 minutes said what happened-and it was as the teacher had said. So-bad thing is that he did it. Phenomenal thing-he admitted it. Took close to 2 hours but he did. How many 5 year old kids do you know who would sit in a chair that long saying nothing--just to keep being in charge--rather than just saying what happened.
BUT, I gotta say--although the "firsts" I have with my kids are different--they are huge. This is the first time younger DS has told the truth. So, not happy he did what he did-but very happy that he is getting better AND he knew what he needed to do to fix it.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 197
First of all STOP.
Then BREATH.
And then LISTEN ... a lot ... to your son.
He's 5 years old for goodness sake, & while I certainly am not going to say punching another child in the mouth is acceptable or desirable behaviour, it's hardly the end of the world, nor necessarily the beginning of a career as an anti-social psychopath either. It's very easy to lose all perspective in these situations - it seems everyone has childhood & parenting under a pc microscope these days that is totally unrealistic & unnatural.
I also don't agree with suspension/isolation of your child from the rest of the class. Right now, his world is falling apart (& please be careful to let it be falling apart to the degree he thinks it is .. not that the adults think it is ... ie: try not to project the adults involved feelings onto him) & he needs support & acceptance & reassurance. The teacher is going to be pi$$ed, because this is pain in the neck for her, the other kids parents are going to be understandably angry & protective of their child, but try not to let other peoples reactions to it bully you into feeling/acting in a way that you might not have if you weren't already so stressed & vulnerable yourself.
The bottom line is that your son needs to be told firmly but kindly that we keep our hands & bodies to ourselves at all times & then to get on with positive, inclusive stuff with the class & the child involved ... stuff that teaches him about boundaries, sharing, taking turns, asking a teacher for help if he feels really angry about what another child is doing etc. Pulling weeds at home teaches him about gardening ... & being isolated. I'm not sure that's the outcome you want to achieve.
Last but not least ... the sooner you forget all about ringing Dad, & create an alternative support system for yourself of people who do give a damn, the less stressful & disappointed you'll be.
I know it doesn't feel like it now, but this is really a storm in a teacup. Try & relax & give it a little time & space. And take care of yourself ... that's really important right now. Go outside tonight & frighten all the neighbourhood cats with that new glow in the dark hoop of yours
Then BREATH.
And then LISTEN ... a lot ... to your son.
He's 5 years old for goodness sake, & while I certainly am not going to say punching another child in the mouth is acceptable or desirable behaviour, it's hardly the end of the world, nor necessarily the beginning of a career as an anti-social psychopath either. It's very easy to lose all perspective in these situations - it seems everyone has childhood & parenting under a pc microscope these days that is totally unrealistic & unnatural.
I also don't agree with suspension/isolation of your child from the rest of the class. Right now, his world is falling apart (& please be careful to let it be falling apart to the degree he thinks it is .. not that the adults think it is ... ie: try not to project the adults involved feelings onto him) & he needs support & acceptance & reassurance. The teacher is going to be pi$$ed, because this is pain in the neck for her, the other kids parents are going to be understandably angry & protective of their child, but try not to let other peoples reactions to it bully you into feeling/acting in a way that you might not have if you weren't already so stressed & vulnerable yourself.
The bottom line is that your son needs to be told firmly but kindly that we keep our hands & bodies to ourselves at all times & then to get on with positive, inclusive stuff with the class & the child involved ... stuff that teaches him about boundaries, sharing, taking turns, asking a teacher for help if he feels really angry about what another child is doing etc. Pulling weeds at home teaches him about gardening ... & being isolated. I'm not sure that's the outcome you want to achieve.
Last but not least ... the sooner you forget all about ringing Dad, & create an alternative support system for yourself of people who do give a damn, the less stressful & disappointed you'll be.
I know it doesn't feel like it now, but this is really a storm in a teacup. Try & relax & give it a little time & space. And take care of yourself ... that's really important right now. Go outside tonight & frighten all the neighbourhood cats with that new glow in the dark hoop of yours
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
Originally Posted by Wife2Kids 
The last 24 hours have been a tad stressful.
Asked stbxah for our taxes so I can make copies and he basically emailed me bizarre incongruent allegations-nothing to do with me getting the taxes. Finally I just emailed him I was not going to pay my lawyer to get what I have every right to have and if he would not give them to me I would ask her to file an order forcing him to give them to me and asking the court to have him pay her fees. He emailed me back he had them and would give them to me.
Last night there were flash floods and the basement of my new house got half flooded. Nothing I could do but move stuff to dry places. This a.m. most of it had drained so I ran to the store and got stuff to clean and a dehumidifier (that I can't afford--but what am I going to do?) I'll deal with it when I get home from work.
Got a call from the preschool half an hour ago. My 5 year old slugged another child in the face and split his lip-WHAT? was all that I could say. Then they said he has been acting aggressively since last Friday. . am not sure what is going on. He has been having problems with the divorce but he cannot go around slugging people. He bloodied this little boy's lip and his mom had to come and get him. She is mad (I would be mad too) and said her son had been complaining my son had been acting aggressively toward him for the last couple days. The teachers say he has been sassy. Not sure how to handle this--he has a lot going on right now (he has RAD and PTSD on top of the other turmoil)-but he cannot just use his body when he is angry. I have been working on this at home--he has never done this outside of our house. I have a call in to his therapist and she should be calling back soon.
Called stbxah to talk to him about son's behavior and he did not call back so called him again (around noon) and he was just rolling out of bed. He could not deal with it because he had other things he needed to take care of (or as he put it, everyone wants a piece of me today). Told me he had to call the people who did his endoscopy because they called and said it was urgent that he call them back as soon as possible.
We have been talking about chaos lately and how many of us seek it out. I am not sure I am seeking it out in any of the above situations. What surprises me is that right now I would think my head was going to explode and it is not.
Thoughts are--you can't stop the flooding you can only clean up the mess afterward.
You are getting the taxes
Wait to talk to therapist about what to do about 5 year old son's violent attack on another child.
Not goint to do anything about the results of stbxah's tests (went down that road last week and things were pretty clear and what people said is definitely occurring--more health issues coming down the line). stbxah sounded very hung over--that is not my problem and he does not have the kids this weekend.
So the thing I am having the most difficulty with is son's behavior. I know he is very sad and mad that stbxah and I don't live together and he has finally figured out that divorce means we never will. There needs to be consequences for his behavior and they need to be fairly serious consequences with a large dose of love on top so he knows regardless of what he does I still love him--but that does not mean he gets away with it.
Has anyone else had problems with their kids to this degree? If so, what did you do?
Asked stbxah for our taxes so I can make copies and he basically emailed me bizarre incongruent allegations-nothing to do with me getting the taxes. Finally I just emailed him I was not going to pay my lawyer to get what I have every right to have and if he would not give them to me I would ask her to file an order forcing him to give them to me and asking the court to have him pay her fees. He emailed me back he had them and would give them to me.
Last night there were flash floods and the basement of my new house got half flooded. Nothing I could do but move stuff to dry places. This a.m. most of it had drained so I ran to the store and got stuff to clean and a dehumidifier (that I can't afford--but what am I going to do?) I'll deal with it when I get home from work.
Got a call from the preschool half an hour ago. My 5 year old slugged another child in the face and split his lip-WHAT? was all that I could say. Then they said he has been acting aggressively since last Friday. . am not sure what is going on. He has been having problems with the divorce but he cannot go around slugging people. He bloodied this little boy's lip and his mom had to come and get him. She is mad (I would be mad too) and said her son had been complaining my son had been acting aggressively toward him for the last couple days. The teachers say he has been sassy. Not sure how to handle this--he has a lot going on right now (he has RAD and PTSD on top of the other turmoil)-but he cannot just use his body when he is angry. I have been working on this at home--he has never done this outside of our house. I have a call in to his therapist and she should be calling back soon.
Called stbxah to talk to him about son's behavior and he did not call back so called him again (around noon) and he was just rolling out of bed. He could not deal with it because he had other things he needed to take care of (or as he put it, everyone wants a piece of me today). Told me he had to call the people who did his endoscopy because they called and said it was urgent that he call them back as soon as possible.
We have been talking about chaos lately and how many of us seek it out. I am not sure I am seeking it out in any of the above situations. What surprises me is that right now I would think my head was going to explode and it is not.
Thoughts are--you can't stop the flooding you can only clean up the mess afterward.
You are getting the taxes
Wait to talk to therapist about what to do about 5 year old son's violent attack on another child.
Not goint to do anything about the results of stbxah's tests (went down that road last week and things were pretty clear and what people said is definitely occurring--more health issues coming down the line). stbxah sounded very hung over--that is not my problem and he does not have the kids this weekend.
So the thing I am having the most difficulty with is son's behavior. I know he is very sad and mad that stbxah and I don't live together and he has finally figured out that divorce means we never will. There needs to be consequences for his behavior and they need to be fairly serious consequences with a large dose of love on top so he knows regardless of what he does I still love him--but that does not mean he gets away with it.
Has anyone else had problems with their kids to this degree? If so, what did you do?
I couldn't believe it, and I was mad. This had been an ongoing problem, and during 2nd grade she was almost kicked out of the program. The Head lady and her head supervisor had to meet with me and LMC, and I think they just let her stay out of compassion for her/our circumstances. They knew she was seeing a therapist and I was doing all I could. Actually she had hit kids 2 or 3 times in 2 or 3 years, but still, they have a zero tolerance.
It seems to me the world has gone crazy in lots of ways, but mainly in school. A kid can torment another relentlessly, and if the picked on kid wallops them, THEY get in trouble. Then once the other kids all know one kid is an easy mark, it makes it worse. IDK.
Here's what I did, but LMC was 8, not 5. I met with the Head lady again, with LMC sitting right there (openness and transparency) and told her that we knew hitting other kids was ABSOLUTELY not allowed. And that I'd appreciated her letting LMC stay in the program before, but if it EVER happened again we would be leaving, and that I trusted she would give me enough time to find the oldest, meanest lady I could find to watch LMC. And that I would insist on NO television, electronics, toys, etc. Just a room with the door closed and books to read for 3 hours till I got there at 6pm. That I knew LMC would miss the company of the other kids, but I didn't know what else to do.
I addition to that, I suggested that if LMC can't be trusted to not hit other kids, she not be given an OPPORTUNITY to hit other kids, after all they have a right to be safe. So she was segregated for 5 days. Wasn't allowed to play, no toys, DS's, could only read books.
At home she was also in "lock down". We came home, she took a bath, she ate dinner, and went straight to bed. No T.V., (her most valuable commodity, so best currency), no electronics, only books to read.
We (aftercare and I) did this for 4 days, at which time she was given a reprieve for good behavior, so her punishment ended a day early at home and school. She has always accepted her consequences with "grace", and that's something I praise her for heavily. I believe it shows strong character.
Oh and I don't punish on weekends for transgressions during the school/work week. The weekends are for enjoyment/chores, consequences are only enforced Sunday through Thursday nights with weekends "off".
I will add this last thing in the spirit of honesty, I do believe in corporal punishment, and she got a very controlled (on my part) spanking when she got home. Spanking is taken very seriously in our home and not given unless warranted.
That being said, LMC is a very SPIRITED little girl (I think it is a good thing and I am very proud of that), and as such has varying consequences on a REGULAR basis. But averages about 1 spanking a year.
I HATE THEM, and although spankings are my least favorite parental duty, I believe they serve a purpose. I've gone to great lengths to make LMC aware of my feelings. I hope that last one is the last one.
One final thought. When LMC's mom and I divorced I felt extremely guilty. I let a lot of bad behavior slide because I felt sorry for her.
After about a year it dawned on me, if I let her get away with things JUST because she is from an alcoholic/broken home, I do her a much greater disservice, in preparing her for life in the real world. If I allow this, I've damaged her twice.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
P.S. If LMC's punishment sounded severe, remember, it wasn't "her 1st rodeo". It was her 3rd or 4th, and as such the consequences were ramped up! Also, that particular problem wasn't revisited again.
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
Originally Posted by Helenlee
First of all STOP.
Then BREATH.
And then LISTEN ... a lot ... to your son.
He's 5 years old for goodness sake, & while I certainly am not going to say punching another child in the mouth is acceptable or desirable behaviour, it's hardly the end of the world, nor necessarily the beginning of a career as an anti-social psychopath either. It's very easy to lose all perspective in these situations - it seems everyone has childhood & parenting under a pc microscope these days that is totally unrealistic & unnatural.
I also don't agree with suspension/isolation of your child from the rest of the class. Right now, his world is falling apart (& please be careful to let it be falling apart to the degree he thinks it is .. not that the adults think it is ... ie: try not to project the adults involved feelings onto him) & he needs support & acceptance & reassurance. The teacher is going to be pi$$ed, because this is pain in the neck for her, the other kids parents are going to be understandably angry & protective of their child, but try not to let other peoples reactions to it bully you into feeling/acting in a way that you might not have if you weren't already so stressed & vulnerable yourself.
The bottom line is that your son needs to be told firmly but kindly that we keep our hands & bodies to ourselves at all times & then to get on with positive, inclusive stuff with the class & the child involved ... stuff that teaches him about boundaries, sharing, taking turns, asking a teacher for help if he feels really angry about what another child is doing etc. Pulling weeds at home teaches him about gardening ... & being isolated. I'm not sure that's the outcome you want to achieve.
Last but not least ... the sooner you forget all about ringing Dad, & create an alternative support system for yourself of people who do give a damn, the less stressful & disappointed you'll be.
I know it doesn't feel like it now, but this is really a storm in a teacup. Try & relax & give it a little time & space. And take care of yourself ... that's really important right now. Go outside tonight & frighten all the neighbourhood cats with that new glow in the dark hoop of yours
Then BREATH.
And then LISTEN ... a lot ... to your son.
He's 5 years old for goodness sake, & while I certainly am not going to say punching another child in the mouth is acceptable or desirable behaviour, it's hardly the end of the world, nor necessarily the beginning of a career as an anti-social psychopath either. It's very easy to lose all perspective in these situations - it seems everyone has childhood & parenting under a pc microscope these days that is totally unrealistic & unnatural.
I also don't agree with suspension/isolation of your child from the rest of the class. Right now, his world is falling apart (& please be careful to let it be falling apart to the degree he thinks it is .. not that the adults think it is ... ie: try not to project the adults involved feelings onto him) & he needs support & acceptance & reassurance. The teacher is going to be pi$$ed, because this is pain in the neck for her, the other kids parents are going to be understandably angry & protective of their child, but try not to let other peoples reactions to it bully you into feeling/acting in a way that you might not have if you weren't already so stressed & vulnerable yourself.
The bottom line is that your son needs to be told firmly but kindly that we keep our hands & bodies to ourselves at all times & then to get on with positive, inclusive stuff with the class & the child involved ... stuff that teaches him about boundaries, sharing, taking turns, asking a teacher for help if he feels really angry about what another child is doing etc. Pulling weeds at home teaches him about gardening ... & being isolated. I'm not sure that's the outcome you want to achieve.
Last but not least ... the sooner you forget all about ringing Dad, & create an alternative support system for yourself of people who do give a damn, the less stressful & disappointed you'll be.
I know it doesn't feel like it now, but this is really a storm in a teacup. Try & relax & give it a little time & space. And take care of yourself ... that's really important right now. Go outside tonight & frighten all the neighbourhood cats with that new glow in the dark hoop of yours
Yes.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
Originally Posted by Helenlee
It's very easy to lose all perspective in these situations - it seems everyone has childhood & parenting under a pc microscope these days that is totally unrealistic & unnatural.
It was our first year w/o mom, and despite being a raving drunk, she was semi-organized. Well, compared to me anyway.
I was somehow caught flat footed by some 5 day school holiday I wasn't expecting, I think I thought the after care was going to be open or something.
Any way, I had to scramble to find a place to keep LMC for me. This one place had an opening so there she went. But she didn't know anybody and that didn't sit so well with her.
On Wednesday, I got a frantic call from the director, I could hear LMC in the background pitching a prize winning blue ribbon fit.
This grown woman, who owned/ran this daycare mind you (many years of experience), told me she had had to call 911 and I should come get LMC ASAP. 911!
I told the woman, she's 5.......control her. Geez, 911.
Any way, the kinda funny part is the DC is at the church where LMC and I have been going to Alanon for 4+ years now. From time to time, the director of the DC is there and LMC is still gets "big eyed" when she hears the womans voice. Despite the fact that we went and talked to her and kind of made amends.
I think if you are a grown up and can't handle a 5yo throwing a fit w/o calling the police, it may be time to change careers. IDK. Of course it could be that I'm just used to LMC.
Come to think of it, she is quite a "force to be reckoned with". Ha!
That's my girl.
I wonder what the 911 operator thought?
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 693
helenlee--I say this with no disprespect but I am not over-reacting and perhaps this is not the right venue for me to very serious emotional problem. I spent 3 years listening to people tell me exactly what you have just told me in reference to my older son--and as a result he went untreated for 3 years--and as a result he is stuggling. It is hard to explain. I sure did not understand it until I was living right in the middldiscuss some of the issues that surround my kids. There are spirted kids and kids that are hard headed. My children are neither. They suffer from a very real and e of it.
Let me give you 2 brief examples and what finally led his pediatrician to stop telling me the things you are telling me. He was 4 at the time. I asked him to come into the bathroom to brush his teeth. I saw the shift. He was going to do it-then said no. I did another thing the doctor told me to do-say I would take his favorite toy--he threw his favorite toy out the door at me. Then he threw every and I mean every single toy in his room out the door at me and told me I could not make him brush his teeth. The next day the ped finally believed me and I was introduced to the world of reactive attachment disorder. I wept when I met the therapist we go to because she did not react as you did-she did not think I was over-reacting because I am one of many many parents who have been told they are over-reacting. One nurse told me I did not love my son enough.
Younger DS was abused--about a year after he got home he would wake up in a dissociative state screaming and begging me to make them stop hurting him. He acted as though he was going through the same physical and emotional pain he had suffered somewhere by someone.
This will sound odd-but there are children younger than my son who have attachment disorder who have killed family pets. I met one child who had gone into her 18 month old brother's room and stuck pins in him (she was also 4 years old at the time). They had grown up in a very abusive home and had been removed. These 2 children were lucky to have been adopted by parents who did not go running and screaming away-but have worked hard to heal them.
My concern about my younger son's actions are more because violence (whille it may have been a reactiion to what was going on) is also a symptom. I knew my other son was starting to heal when I started to see empathy in him. When I took him at the age of 5 to the attachment therapist he did not know the difference between happy, sad, mad-most of what he felt was intense sadness and rage.
Another reason I did not leave stbxah sooner is a woman who ran the attachment therapy camp told me if I divorced him--I would lose my older son. He would never attach and would never heal. He would never learn to trust. This killed me because he was in so much emotional pain at the time we went to this intensive. She told me if I left stbxah--that older DS would think that since his dad had done wrong and I left him that I would also leave him too--because he had done bad things to me. It scared the crap out of me. Again, I cannot explain the pain of watching my older son struggle--wanting so much to give trust and being terrifiied to do it at the same time.
HP was there that week as my son screamed in rages that could probably be heard for miles because he did not want to be loved. I thought I was going to break myself because I felt like a complete failure as his mom-until every other parent surrounded me and picked me up and helped me because they had all been at the place of despair I was and their children had been at the place of despair my son was. That night I cradled my 5 year old son like an infant while he wept for hours and just told him over and over that I loved him and always would, that he was going to be OK, I was never going to leave him or hurt him like other people had. The next day, during our therapy session with the horses my son looked in my eyes and the therapist asked him what he saw and he looked completely confused and then he started to cry again and told her--I can see love. My mom loves me. A first that will live in my soul forever.
I gotta go. I am a bit of a mess right now. Kids are in bed and I need to do the same. Please do not judge me as harsh. I am not trying to be PC with my kids. I am trying like hell to heal their hearts. The therapist I have now told me this was going to be hard and that some scary things could happen--but that staying would pretty much guarantee that they would never get better. My younger son is in a pretty precarious place--so an outburst of violence is not something I take lightly. He punched another little boy in his face as hard as he could because that little boy would not do what he told him to do. For a child who is just having a rough time due to a divorce-people think cut him some slack. That is a very slippery slope in my situation.
Let me give you 2 brief examples and what finally led his pediatrician to stop telling me the things you are telling me. He was 4 at the time. I asked him to come into the bathroom to brush his teeth. I saw the shift. He was going to do it-then said no. I did another thing the doctor told me to do-say I would take his favorite toy--he threw his favorite toy out the door at me. Then he threw every and I mean every single toy in his room out the door at me and told me I could not make him brush his teeth. The next day the ped finally believed me and I was introduced to the world of reactive attachment disorder. I wept when I met the therapist we go to because she did not react as you did-she did not think I was over-reacting because I am one of many many parents who have been told they are over-reacting. One nurse told me I did not love my son enough.
Younger DS was abused--about a year after he got home he would wake up in a dissociative state screaming and begging me to make them stop hurting him. He acted as though he was going through the same physical and emotional pain he had suffered somewhere by someone.
This will sound odd-but there are children younger than my son who have attachment disorder who have killed family pets. I met one child who had gone into her 18 month old brother's room and stuck pins in him (she was also 4 years old at the time). They had grown up in a very abusive home and had been removed. These 2 children were lucky to have been adopted by parents who did not go running and screaming away-but have worked hard to heal them.
My concern about my younger son's actions are more because violence (whille it may have been a reactiion to what was going on) is also a symptom. I knew my other son was starting to heal when I started to see empathy in him. When I took him at the age of 5 to the attachment therapist he did not know the difference between happy, sad, mad-most of what he felt was intense sadness and rage.
Another reason I did not leave stbxah sooner is a woman who ran the attachment therapy camp told me if I divorced him--I would lose my older son. He would never attach and would never heal. He would never learn to trust. This killed me because he was in so much emotional pain at the time we went to this intensive. She told me if I left stbxah--that older DS would think that since his dad had done wrong and I left him that I would also leave him too--because he had done bad things to me. It scared the crap out of me. Again, I cannot explain the pain of watching my older son struggle--wanting so much to give trust and being terrifiied to do it at the same time.
HP was there that week as my son screamed in rages that could probably be heard for miles because he did not want to be loved. I thought I was going to break myself because I felt like a complete failure as his mom-until every other parent surrounded me and picked me up and helped me because they had all been at the place of despair I was and their children had been at the place of despair my son was. That night I cradled my 5 year old son like an infant while he wept for hours and just told him over and over that I loved him and always would, that he was going to be OK, I was never going to leave him or hurt him like other people had. The next day, during our therapy session with the horses my son looked in my eyes and the therapist asked him what he saw and he looked completely confused and then he started to cry again and told her--I can see love. My mom loves me. A first that will live in my soul forever.
I gotta go. I am a bit of a mess right now. Kids are in bed and I need to do the same. Please do not judge me as harsh. I am not trying to be PC with my kids. I am trying like hell to heal their hearts. The therapist I have now told me this was going to be hard and that some scary things could happen--but that staying would pretty much guarantee that they would never get better. My younger son is in a pretty precarious place--so an outburst of violence is not something I take lightly. He punched another little boy in his face as hard as he could because that little boy would not do what he told him to do. For a child who is just having a rough time due to a divorce-people think cut him some slack. That is a very slippery slope in my situation.
Curled up in a good book...
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,542
I don't have kids, so I guess I'm not really 'qualified' to say but Wife, I think you're amazing. This bit made me cry!
You're so brave to take on the job of healing these children.
Originally Posted by Wife2Kids
HP was there that week as my son screamed in rages that could probably be heard for miles because he did not want to be loved. I thought I was going to break myself because I felt like a complete failure as his mom-until every other parent surrounded me and picked me up and helped me because they had all been at the place of despair I was and their children had been at the place of despair my son was. That night I cradled my 5 year old son like an infant while he wept for hours and just told him over and over that I loved him and always would, that he was going to be OK, I was never going to leave him or hurt him like other people had. The next day, during our therapy session with the horses my son looked in my eyes and the therapist asked him what he saw and he looked completely confused and then he started to cry again and told her--I can see love. My mom loves me. A first that will live in my soul forever.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
coyote-
i do not agree with spanking children. do you think anyone learns from violence? there are other ways to communicate boundaries which are more effective and less alienating to a child. i was spanked as a child and speak from my own personal experience.
naive
i do not agree with spanking children. do you think anyone learns from violence? there are other ways to communicate boundaries which are more effective and less alienating to a child. i was spanked as a child and speak from my own personal experience.
naive
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
don't mean to hijack this thread but i have more to say about spanking...
in my therapy, my psychiatrist and i both feel that because i was hit by my father as a child, that this contributed to me staying in a phyically abusive situation as an adult.... as i had confused hitting and loving in my young psyche.
food for thought, coyote.
naive
in my therapy, my psychiatrist and i both feel that because i was hit by my father as a child, that this contributed to me staying in a phyically abusive situation as an adult.... as i had confused hitting and loving in my young psyche.
food for thought, coyote.
naive
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Wife2Kids, are your kids adopted? Sorry I am not following your posts too well because I don't understand what you are saying about the first years of their lives. Thanks. Hope things get a little easier soon. 
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 35
Wife2Kids - I am sorry for the mess, but please sit down and just let it all go for a few minutes. Don't waste another moment of your time being frustrated with your STBXAH - he's an ass, and you don't need constant validation. You don't need a copy of your taxes RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT. Try to avoid unconsciously setting up situations that allow your STBXAH to validate your opinion of him.
Regarding your son - why label him? He's simply a child working hard to deal with his emotions. A teeager that strikes another teenager is a big deal. A 5 year old punching another child needs to be addressed but it is not a crisis. A 5 year old has not developed the coping mechanisms to deal with his emotions. His immature mind thought a punch would work, and it probably did release his frustration. Now you need to provide him with healthier ways to deal with his frustration. I would sit down with him and explain that you understand his frustration and how upset he is, but that hitting is NEVER an option. You cvan then talk about alternatives. I would suggest counseling for each of your children to help deal with a divorce. There are vast array of free counseling available for chldren starting with school. Children can come out of divorce more resilient, but they can also develop lifelong challenges. A healthy divorce is actually better than a stressful marriage that remains intact.
I will keep you, your children and your STBXAH in our prayers.
Regarding your son - why label him? He's simply a child working hard to deal with his emotions. A teeager that strikes another teenager is a big deal. A 5 year old punching another child needs to be addressed but it is not a crisis. A 5 year old has not developed the coping mechanisms to deal with his emotions. His immature mind thought a punch would work, and it probably did release his frustration. Now you need to provide him with healthier ways to deal with his frustration. I would sit down with him and explain that you understand his frustration and how upset he is, but that hitting is NEVER an option. You cvan then talk about alternatives. I would suggest counseling for each of your children to help deal with a divorce. There are vast array of free counseling available for chldren starting with school. Children can come out of divorce more resilient, but they can also develop lifelong challenges. A healthy divorce is actually better than a stressful marriage that remains intact.
I will keep you, your children and your STBXAH in our prayers.
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
Originally Posted by naive
coyote-
i do not agree with spanking children. do you think anyone learns from violence? there are other ways to communicate boundaries which are more effective and less alienating to a child. i was spanked as a child and speak from my own personal experience.
naive
i do not agree with spanking children. do you think anyone learns from violence? there are other ways to communicate boundaries which are more effective and less alienating to a child. i was spanked as a child and speak from my own personal experience.
naive
I will not spend one more moment trying to justify or explain or change your mind.
The last thing I will say on the topic is that I do not consider 3 swats on a child's rear violence.
Main Entry: vi·o·lence
Pronunciation: \ˈvī-lən(t)s, ˈvī-ə-\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 a : exertion of physical force so as to injure or abuse (as in warfare effecting illegal entry into a house) b : an instance of violent treatment or procedure
2 : injury by or as if by distortion, infringement, or profanation : outrage
3 a : intense, turbulent, or furious and often destructive action or force <the violence of the storm> b : vehement feeling or expression : fervor; also : an instance of such action or feeling c : a clashing or jarring quality : discordance
4 : undue alteration (as of wording or sense in editing a text)
I could go on and on about the removal of corporal punishment in schools and how the "inmates are running the asylum", but I wont.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 693
L2L-yes, my kids are adopted. They spent the first year of their lives in a Russian orphanage. Well younger DS was in a Russian hospital 75% of the time-which believe it or not is worse for orphans than the orphanage because children with no parents are often thought to not matter. So they are not fed much and if they mess themselves they are left to lie in it. If they are scared and cry, no one comes to pick them up. In one hospital a nurse who could not stand their cries taped the mouths of infants shut. Fortunately a mother who was there visiting her own child heard something strange, opened the door and saw the horror. She photographed it and took it to the police.
Children-all I can say is you don't get it. The work I do with my kids is going on 24/7. What you have told me, in all honesty would be parenting 101 and right now I am at the graduate level when it comes to working with kids with attachment disorder and PTSD. What you are telling me assumes that my children's brains developed like a child who did not live like they did. My children's brains never developed the ability to self regulate--to calm themselves down--because no one picked them up. I don't know if you have kids. If so, look at them and then imagine them laying in a crib the first year of life and being completely ignored. The label is just a name of what they have--just like the label alcoholic is the name of what the disease is my stbxah has. Emotion regulation is just one of several things that their brains do not know how to do. I don't want to teach a lesson in neuroscience right now.
Like I said, this is not the venue to discuss my kids and how to deal with them and quite honestly I should have realized that. I am sorry for posting it here.
Children-all I can say is you don't get it. The work I do with my kids is going on 24/7. What you have told me, in all honesty would be parenting 101 and right now I am at the graduate level when it comes to working with kids with attachment disorder and PTSD. What you are telling me assumes that my children's brains developed like a child who did not live like they did. My children's brains never developed the ability to self regulate--to calm themselves down--because no one picked them up. I don't know if you have kids. If so, look at them and then imagine them laying in a crib the first year of life and being completely ignored. The label is just a name of what they have--just like the label alcoholic is the name of what the disease is my stbxah has. Emotion regulation is just one of several things that their brains do not know how to do. I don't want to teach a lesson in neuroscience right now.
Like I said, this is not the venue to discuss my kids and how to deal with them and quite honestly I should have realized that. I am sorry for posting it here.
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