Courage to Change; Page 37
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Originally Posted by Summerpeach 
page 37 does not say to wait for anyone else to solve our problems. It says to make a move when your mind is clear enough to solve our own problems.
It is likely I would have used it to rationalize and justify staying in a situation that was unhealthy for me simply because taking the action I needed to take was painful and difficult.
L
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That's it for me. I want the situation to feel comfortable.
The idea of standing up for my needs (with follow through) doesn't feel comfortable (because he doesn't like it, because he'll be mad, because it will hurt him - whatever)
So, I think: maybe I am missing something. Maybe it's not a good idea. Maybe it's not the right choice. Maybe, maybe, maybe.
All because I have 2 secret rules (just two? LOL!) that say
1. My choices should feel comfortable all the time.
2. My comfort depends on the people I care about feeling comfortable.
And if my comfort and his comfort are in conflict?
My habit has been to back off!
Boy, it takes courage to STAND UP FOR MYSELF!
So, the idea "when in doubt, don't" is good on the one hand, for people like me that doubt myself consistently, I need a phrase that says, "when in doubt, look to what you feel you want/need/deserve and TAKE ACTION despite the doubt!"
The idea of standing up for my needs (with follow through) doesn't feel comfortable (because he doesn't like it, because he'll be mad, because it will hurt him - whatever)
So, I think: maybe I am missing something. Maybe it's not a good idea. Maybe it's not the right choice. Maybe, maybe, maybe.
All because I have 2 secret rules (just two? LOL!) that say
1. My choices should feel comfortable all the time.
2. My comfort depends on the people I care about feeling comfortable.
And if my comfort and his comfort are in conflict?
My habit has been to back off!
Boy, it takes courage to STAND UP FOR MYSELF!
So, the idea "when in doubt, don't" is good on the one hand, for people like me that doubt myself consistently, I need a phrase that says, "when in doubt, look to what you feel you want/need/deserve and TAKE ACTION despite the doubt!"
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 464
Making rash life changing decisions...stepping into the unknown...all scary stuff..weighing up the pros, an cons of what,s best...its not easy...decided to stick by and stay sober..try changin to bein more tolerant of my a/w..cutting the arguments an bickering often of petulance like its your turn to change the cat litter tray..or your on baby/child mindin duty...many a petulant detail can be a repetitive day of mental battles..the courage to change..is the big issue..and stopping playing the blame game..i think the advice of another poster .on giving 6 months of full on effort and change..an see were we are both at...in the process again..best part of a week of no drinking..wife still drinking...like many others here also i want it now...patience also passed me by...but is an essential in progressing for sure...takin up a couple of hobbies, started walking a lot again..were we live there are some really nice beaches,and cliffs..all the seabirds are nestin up..was down last few nights gettin some good shots on camera...at the same time fishin some crab pots..off the lower cliffs...been catchin a few...caught a decent lobster as well last night...so thats the combination hobbys...long walk to location...good pics to take...catch crab, the odd lobster..home cook up tea..or freeze the booty...come on here...have a good ol nosey...tea/coffee..bed. i cant bring myself to boiling these things alive...so been expiring them in fresh water in a bowl...keepin busy the whole day long an half the night...no time to think of booze..all good..tx.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: uk
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i can totally realate to the control thing here..Anvil an i can see the moulding into one..with wanting the other to do all as you see..because you know better than...guilty of a bit o that for sure....personally the best times we are really happy...and i suspect a whole lot of others here are..is when she does her thing..an i do mine...come together for an hour or two a day an bingo hunky dory...harmonious marriage..some blokes are less family orientated than others..some woman are less maternally minded than others..most importantly in all of this..child is happy...beaming smile upon waking..full of mischeif an adventure to contend with...
tx.
tx.
Curled up in a good book...
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by anvilhead
we spend a lot of time revising the IF, THEN, BUT chart....if i do this, then he'll think that, so i better say this, and then he'll respond with that and THEN everything will be OK. we crave OK.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Control is a human survival instinct. We must go against all instinct in order to determine which control is needed and which isn't
A lot of "codie" issues are based in natural human instinct. The deal with codies is that we let them penetrate our beings, where as someone who isn't codie can just feel hurt and walk away.
I like this message from page 37, because it sort of puts us in control. To act when ready (unless the situation is critical).
I went to a weekend group thing a while back and many of the participants were still with their addicted partners who were all in recovery. And it came back to, once the codie changes, their addicts changed.
But of course, no one changed in order to control their partner, the addict changing was a bonus.
My momma always said "you do things right only when you're ready"
A lot of "codie" issues are based in natural human instinct. The deal with codies is that we let them penetrate our beings, where as someone who isn't codie can just feel hurt and walk away.
I like this message from page 37, because it sort of puts us in control. To act when ready (unless the situation is critical).
I went to a weekend group thing a while back and many of the participants were still with their addicted partners who were all in recovery. And it came back to, once the codie changes, their addicts changed.
But of course, no one changed in order to control their partner, the addict changing was a bonus.
My momma always said "you do things right only when you're ready"
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wild West, USA
Posts: 407
It's hard to balance the risk of action versus the risk of indefinitely doing nothing, and I don't know a black and white way of figuring out when to ACT! and when to WAIT!
Still, while patience and avoidance might look the same to the observer, but to the person experiencing them, they couldn't be more different. In my life, avoidance tends to be brought to an end by outside circumstances. I avoided dealing with my feelings about my separated alcoholic husband, and with our marriage in limbo, and eventually he found someone else. At that point I dealt with it and it was horrible. At the time, I don't think I could have handled it any better, though.
Patience, however, tends to result in good things and good decisions slowly unfolding in my life. I stayed in a job I disliked for several years, and finally quit it when I got a tiny bonus for doing someone else's job for a week, and didn't get one for a huge project at which I was successful. It finally sank in that my work wasn't valued, that was the last straw, and I left. A new, much better and better paying job has landed in my lap... one that I could not have gotten if I quit the old job earlier. Not forcing that decision paid off. The saying, "you'll know when you've had enough" applies to many situations.
Sometimes I'm not strong enough to confront my own avoidance. I know it, and am slowly getting to be OK with it.
Why the heck does it take so long to learn this stuff? Argh! Speaking of avoiding... must go pay bill for car repairs. I love Courage to Change, I'll flip through it tonight...
Still, while patience and avoidance might look the same to the observer, but to the person experiencing them, they couldn't be more different. In my life, avoidance tends to be brought to an end by outside circumstances. I avoided dealing with my feelings about my separated alcoholic husband, and with our marriage in limbo, and eventually he found someone else. At that point I dealt with it and it was horrible. At the time, I don't think I could have handled it any better, though.
Patience, however, tends to result in good things and good decisions slowly unfolding in my life. I stayed in a job I disliked for several years, and finally quit it when I got a tiny bonus for doing someone else's job for a week, and didn't get one for a huge project at which I was successful. It finally sank in that my work wasn't valued, that was the last straw, and I left. A new, much better and better paying job has landed in my lap... one that I could not have gotten if I quit the old job earlier. Not forcing that decision paid off. The saying, "you'll know when you've had enough" applies to many situations.
Sometimes I'm not strong enough to confront my own avoidance. I know it, and am slowly getting to be OK with it.
Why the heck does it take so long to learn this stuff? Argh! Speaking of avoiding... must go pay bill for car repairs. I love Courage to Change, I'll flip through it tonight...
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
That's the $20,000 Question, isn't it? (remember when that was an ungodly amount of money? 
When to continue waiting for guidance, and when to say, "Okay, I've been patient and it looks as though I could be patiently waiting for an answer twenty years from now....time to overcome my fear and try something else."
I can only speak for myself: I chose to leave when I realized that I was unable to detach sufficiently from the damaging parts of my relationship despite my very best efforts, and when that damage threatened to become permanent. (I was developing physical symptoms from the stress that I would not have been able to reverse easily, if ever)
Then I knew that I had to switch tactics, and patiently wait for guidance OUTSIDE the relationship. My body and my spirit were precious gifts that I wasn't willing to risk.
Very personal decision, though.......
Agree too about humans controlling. We don't have fangs or claws, only our minds and wits to control our own personal safety zones. I think recovery is all about learning what we can and can't, should and shouldn't try to control. And again -- maddeningly enough -- there are no one-size-fits-all answers.
Wish life were easier! (or do I?)
When to continue waiting for guidance, and when to say, "Okay, I've been patient and it looks as though I could be patiently waiting for an answer twenty years from now....time to overcome my fear and try something else."I can only speak for myself: I chose to leave when I realized that I was unable to detach sufficiently from the damaging parts of my relationship despite my very best efforts, and when that damage threatened to become permanent. (I was developing physical symptoms from the stress that I would not have been able to reverse easily, if ever)
Then I knew that I had to switch tactics, and patiently wait for guidance OUTSIDE the relationship. My body and my spirit were precious gifts that I wasn't willing to risk.
Very personal decision, though.......
Agree too about humans controlling. We don't have fangs or claws, only our minds and wits to control our own personal safety zones. I think recovery is all about learning what we can and can't, should and shouldn't try to control. And again -- maddeningly enough -- there are no one-size-fits-all answers.
Wish life were easier! (or do I?)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,292
Originally Posted by GiveLove
That's the $20,000 Question, isn't it? (remember when that was an ungodly amount of money? When to continue waiting for guidance, and when to say, "Okay, I've been patient and it looks as though I could be patiently waiting for an answer twenty years from now....time to overcome my fear and try something else."
I can only speak for myself: I chose to leave when I realized that I was unable to detach sufficiently from the damaging parts of my relationship despite my very best efforts, and when that damage threatened to become permanent. (I was developing physical symptoms from the stress that I would not have been able to reverse easily, if ever)
Then I knew that I had to switch tactics, and patiently wait for guidance OUTSIDE the relationship. My body and my spirit were precious gifts that I wasn't willing to risk.
Very personal decision, though.......
Agree too about humans controlling. We don't have fangs or claws, only our minds and wits to control our own personal safety zones. I think recovery is all about learning what we can and can't, should and shouldn't try to control. And again -- maddeningly enough -- there are no one-size-fits-all answers.
Wish life were easier! (or do I?)
When to continue waiting for guidance, and when to say, "Okay, I've been patient and it looks as though I could be patiently waiting for an answer twenty years from now....time to overcome my fear and try something else."I can only speak for myself: I chose to leave when I realized that I was unable to detach sufficiently from the damaging parts of my relationship despite my very best efforts, and when that damage threatened to become permanent. (I was developing physical symptoms from the stress that I would not have been able to reverse easily, if ever)
Then I knew that I had to switch tactics, and patiently wait for guidance OUTSIDE the relationship. My body and my spirit were precious gifts that I wasn't willing to risk.
Very personal decision, though.......
Agree too about humans controlling. We don't have fangs or claws, only our minds and wits to control our own personal safety zones. I think recovery is all about learning what we can and can't, should and shouldn't try to control. And again -- maddeningly enough -- there are no one-size-fits-all answers.
Wish life were easier! (or do I?)
I just pictured you saying this, looking into the camera, with an eyebrow raised and the music goes "bummm bummm bummmm"
Humans are control freaks, but you know, animals by nature are control freaks, What sets apart from them is our ego. Our egos tell us we cannot or should not control each other. But really, we are being controlled daily and we don't even know it....(bummmmm bummm bummmmm)
today4me
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 311
Originally Posted by Summerpeach
I went to a weekend group thing a while back and many of the participants were still with their addicted partners who were all in recovery. And it came back to, once the codie changes, their addicts changed. But of course, no one changed in order to control their partner, the addict changing was a bonus. My momma always said "you do things right only when you're ready"
The one thing I feel or experience after each meeting is a peace. It's like I'm at peace with myself and I think it's mostly because I can talk and know I cannot them. Sorta like an acceptance from HP and other in the meeting. I know the answer from God has been peace also, every time I pray. Who knows what the future has and that I Believe is the key understanding to retain.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
I just pictured you saying this, looking into the camera, with an eyebrow raised and the music goes "bummm bummm bummmm"
We are wired to be control freaks because that's how we kept from dying in horrible ways long ago when we ate roots and snakes and when having a mate to stand with you might make the difference between living and dying.
When I'm having a control attack, I have to force myself to look at things this way: We've evolved as a species to where we (mostly) now refrain from whacking each other with clubs over mates, staking out territory, and other things we "had to do" back then to survive. We've gained a modicum of control over our animal instincts; hanging on to a particular mate is no longer a life-or-death issue in most relationships unless we're physically helpless. It's almost purely optional, a luxury.
I'm slowly working through my cro-magnon instincts through counseling and working on myself
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go make some brontosaurus burgers....
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
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I've been contemplating this some more, and I've decided the important message here for me is not the "waiting," but the "not forcing." I notice when I start trying to come up with solutions, I feel anxious and uneasy. But when I just allow that there is something needing a solution, and pay attention, then the right solution usually comes.
But, I also think the paying attention part is important. In other words, if I have a solution in mind, and I'm just waiting for it to "feel" right, I'm missing the point. I have to be patient with an open mind because the best solution might be something I haven't considered yet.
I don't know if I'm articulating this very well, but I hardly ever do when I have these AHA's.
L
But, I also think the paying attention part is important. In other words, if I have a solution in mind, and I'm just waiting for it to "feel" right, I'm missing the point. I have to be patient with an open mind because the best solution might be something I haven't considered yet.
I don't know if I'm articulating this very well, but I hardly ever do when I have these AHA's.
L
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
That makes sense to me.
I still struggle with this because when I read that book I didn't like it. I'm still having such a hard time with this. I took it back to the library and did not feel much better, I may have even felt a little worse. Like I should still be able to live with my situation if I just did a mental shift, or waited, or....????. I doubted myself even more if that was even possible.
I got way more out of Co-Dependant no more.
I'm just having a hard time in general right now. Maybe that is it.
I still struggle with this because when I read that book I didn't like it. I'm still having such a hard time with this. I took it back to the library and did not feel much better, I may have even felt a little worse. Like I should still be able to live with my situation if I just did a mental shift, or waited, or....????. I doubted myself even more if that was even possible.
I got way more out of Co-Dependant no more.
I'm just having a hard time in general right now. Maybe that is it.
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
I'm not a great fan of courage to change, partly its the format, I don't get on well with the "thought for the day" snippits. Similarly, I don't like melody beattie's language of letting go, though I loved Codep. no more.
perhaps I need my help spelled out to me and elaborated upon!
But I also get a kind of 1950's vibe from it sometimes.
perhaps I need my help spelled out to me and elaborated upon!
But I also get a kind of 1950's vibe from it sometimes.
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Originally Posted by Thumper
I took it back to the library and did not feel much better, I may have even felt a little worse. Like I should still be able to live with my situation if I just did a mental shift, or waited, or....????. I doubted myself even more if that was even possible.
I think there is a definitely a middle ground between acting impulsively and being stuck in fear and doubt. I know I've done both, and neither was good for me.
L
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
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What a topic. so much to say and yet I have few words. It speaks to me and about me. I tried so hard to change him and then change me so that he would change and got myself caught up and stressed out.
Somewhere in there I learned the lesson of not trying to change someone. I realized all our arguments were about me trying to change his thinking.
When we first separated I realized that I needed time to stop and heal before trying to make decisions and move on. It is a stop and go thing but my favorite line is, " Be Still and Know that I am God". This phrase and the Serenity Prayer were given to me when I was young to help cope with the losses in my life. Recently, a relative sent me a book mark with that phrase on it just to remind me to stop and be clear through prayer. So I am.
Somewhere in there I learned the lesson of not trying to change someone. I realized all our arguments were about me trying to change his thinking.
When we first separated I realized that I needed time to stop and heal before trying to make decisions and move on. It is a stop and go thing but my favorite line is, " Be Still and Know that I am God". This phrase and the Serenity Prayer were given to me when I was young to help cope with the losses in my life. Recently, a relative sent me a book mark with that phrase on it just to remind me to stop and be clear through prayer. So I am.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
Hmm. I spent a good lot of time (years), energy, etc. trying to change him and change our situation. In the end I was mostly trying to change me to be OK with the situation, to work and live around it. To let it go without really going. To find some sort of peace with detachment. I did not even have words for that at the time because I had not gone to alanon or read anything.
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Originally Posted by GiveLove
I love that your posts have a soundtrack sometimes, peach
We are wired to be control freaks because that's how we kept from dying in horrible ways long ago when we ate roots and snakes and when having a mate to stand with you might make the difference between living and dying.
When I'm having a control attack, I have to force myself to look at things this way: We've evolved as a species to where we (mostly) now refrain from whacking each other with clubs over mates, staking out territory, and other things we "had to do" back then to survive. We've gained a modicum of control over our animal instincts; hanging on to a particular mate is no longer a life-or-death issue in most relationships unless we're physically helpless. It's almost purely optional, a luxury.
I'm slowly working through my cro-magnon instincts through counseling and working on myself
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go make some brontosaurus burgers....
We are wired to be control freaks because that's how we kept from dying in horrible ways long ago when we ate roots and snakes and when having a mate to stand with you might make the difference between living and dying.
When I'm having a control attack, I have to force myself to look at things this way: We've evolved as a species to where we (mostly) now refrain from whacking each other with clubs over mates, staking out territory, and other things we "had to do" back then to survive. We've gained a modicum of control over our animal instincts; hanging on to a particular mate is no longer a life-or-death issue in most relationships unless we're physically helpless. It's almost purely optional, a luxury.
I'm slowly working through my cro-magnon instincts through counseling and working on myself
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go make some brontosaurus burgers....
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,292
Originally Posted by tpen
I have to admit, the two al anon meetings I have been two have been focused on changing myself to change her. I don't want this and hope it goes away after more meetings.
The one thing I feel or experience after each meeting is a peace. It's like I'm at peace with myself and I think it's mostly because I can talk and know I cannot them. Sorta like an acceptance from HP and other in the meeting. I know the answer from God has been peace also, every time I pray. Who knows what the future has and that I Believe is the key understanding to retain.
The one thing I feel or experience after each meeting is a peace. It's like I'm at peace with myself and I think it's mostly because I can talk and know I cannot them. Sorta like an acceptance from HP and other in the meeting. I know the answer from God has been peace also, every time I pray. Who knows what the future has and that I Believe is the key understanding to retain.
I realized, I needed a lot of shaping up myself.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,292
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
I've been contemplating this some more, and I've decided the important message here for me is not the "waiting," but the "not forcing." I notice when I start trying to come up with solutions, I feel anxious and uneasy. But when I just allow that there is something needing a solution, and pay attention, then the right solution usually comes.
But, I also think the paying attention part is important. In other words, if I have a solution in mind, and I'm just waiting for it to "feel" right, I'm missing the point. I have to be patient with an open mind because the best solution might be something I haven't considered yet.
I don't know if I'm articulating this very well, but I hardly ever do when I have these AHA's.
L
But, I also think the paying attention part is important. In other words, if I have a solution in mind, and I'm just waiting for it to "feel" right, I'm missing the point. I have to be patient with an open mind because the best solution might be something I haven't considered yet.
I don't know if I'm articulating this very well, but I hardly ever do when I have these AHA's.
L
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