he agreed to go to therapy
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 63
The first thing that came to mind when reading your post was "so drive your own car." That's how we literally live at our house. Nobody likes the way my husband drives so we don't get in his car. Relationship decisions are more complicated but similar. I just try to avoid the behaviors I don't want to be around. Wish I could say that always worked. But for now, It's the best I can do.
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
Wow. Thank you for this thread. It's honest and difficult and helps me as well as the other posters and lurking lurkers.
For me, I remember doing all of this same searching and wondering, I remember those conversations that were quite simply just justifications from my AH about his drinking and an attempt to blame me because I wanted him to stop. and right before I moved out I remember having the realization that our entire relationship truly was like mental gymnastics. I felt like I was living with an emotional contortionist. The harder I tried to understand and communicate, the more twisted and confused I felt. So sad. I was gut wrenched.
We had an ongoing affair (his) thrown in, and I also wanted him to stop talking to the OW, but his method of "communicating" was the same. All over the board, defensive, hurt, angry, loving. The opposite of clear, trustworthy, open or stable.
It's truly astonishing how the depths of my denial prevented me from seeing the basic science. Massive amounts of alcohol consumption=a very confused and unstable person.
Wife, I'm so glad you're here. thank you for your honesty and posts.
For me, I remember doing all of this same searching and wondering, I remember those conversations that were quite simply just justifications from my AH about his drinking and an attempt to blame me because I wanted him to stop. and right before I moved out I remember having the realization that our entire relationship truly was like mental gymnastics. I felt like I was living with an emotional contortionist. The harder I tried to understand and communicate, the more twisted and confused I felt. So sad. I was gut wrenched.
We had an ongoing affair (his) thrown in, and I also wanted him to stop talking to the OW, but his method of "communicating" was the same. All over the board, defensive, hurt, angry, loving. The opposite of clear, trustworthy, open or stable.
It's truly astonishing how the depths of my denial prevented me from seeing the basic science. Massive amounts of alcohol consumption=a very confused and unstable person.
Wife, I'm so glad you're here. thank you for your honesty and posts.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
Thank ALL of you. Great stuff from EVERY REPLY!
Takingcharge - Anyway I'm learning for any relation to work , BOTH need to be BRUTALLY HONEST with themselves, if one of them is not, it will all go down the drain eventually.......
I feel that way. Recently, someone posted about Dr. Phil saying you should be able to do everything you do - in front of your partner. I really like that; that's brutal honesty with self AND other. The problem? My husband is VERY, VERY PRIVATE. He was when I met him. It took ages to learn him deeply (that should have been a clue!). So, I have overlooked the hiding because I want to respect his privacy. If I want "brutal honesty", that is, I think, not possible for him, as it would require such a fundamental change...so I am trying to figure out if there is a way I can request my "minimums" and still respect his privacy. The problem is, I now don't trust him, so any privacy on his part looks like secrecy. I'm pretty stuck on this issue.
at least I know I would be more interested in what the other says than in the ways I boycott myself .... I would be more interested in finding out if the other is honest or not..... than in sorting out what is it that I WANT.... and that's the basics, right?? knowing what one is REALLY after in the general picture?? what feeds your SOUL? isn't that the main topic???
Beauteous. Thank you. Right on.
Transform - Thank you! I am just trying to survive my life!
But honestly, the rational part of me knows that if I am worrying over something this much, the deed is done. I have major problems I just have to accept. I've seen it in my past in relationships. It's just SO HARD to have perspective on your own life! Put another way, it's hard to accept WHAT IS. It's stupid how much I don't want to. Ridiculous. LUDICROUS. Amazing. Breathtaking, really.
Coffee- my replies (this is getting quite intricate, no?
These are his issues, they are deeply rooted and they CAN be addressed. That's the reason we go to therapy.
If he goes just to pacify me, does it matter?
When you say "matter", does it really mean he's not doing what you want? Going for the reason you believe he should be going?
I mean, will he get anything out of it for himself? Or do I just get to prove to myself (again) that he doesn't want to communicate? (I know, we can't predict the future!)
~~~
I wanna say I feel for you, and this is hard stuff. But you are making progress and we can keep our fingers crossed that your husband will too. That thing about this being the beginning of your future divorce, is just fear talking. Take that as a good sign.
What's good in that?
Good because I think your marriage is important to him. I think he has sat up and taken notice.
(wife scowls darkly) not sure it will CHANGE anything. I KNOW he loves me. He said he "considered" suicide the first time I went away for a few weeks to think things through (he won't discuss that now). (Not that that is a HEALTHY sign of love; It's totally JACKED! He's as codie, if not more, as me!) I just think he doesn't want to move an inch. Again, I know, I need to figure out what my bottom line requests are. I am going to journal more about that today.
~~
And the comment about you buying the VW Beetle and now wanting a Camry (or however he put it) -- that's his fear too.
I think you are talking about someone else here...buying the VW Beetle? What?
Sorry bout that, I always go off on these analogy things. I meant it's like you bought this swayback ol' mare when you married (him), but now you are angry because it's not a steed. (you want him to be better, a different model). Does that one make any sense?
LOL! Yep. You're right. I'd hate to have someone say "you're not good enough", too, and that's how he feels. But, I have to remember: it is okay to ask for what you need.
~~~
If he loved chocolate cookies when you got married, but now he has heart disease and diabetes and is overweight....well, wouldn't you have to address that? It was ok with you that he had a chocolate cookie habit 10 years ago because YOU DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS GOING TO CAUSE SUCH TERRIFIC PROBLEMS.
Weird because he DID get diabetes (Type 1, without the weight and heart disease), but this touches on another thing.
What if he doesn't eat right or doesn't wear his seat belt or abuses himself with alcohol. It impacts me, as his partner, but its HIS body. How do I balance the two? He feels its not my business. Is it, in any way, my business? And if so, how?
I think it's back to what you are willing to have in your life. If you just can't handle him driving without wearing a seatbelt, you tell him. "I love and care about you, but I need someone who cares about himself too. I need to know that when you're in a car you wear your seatbelt, and if you do not, I think I have to move on. It's too hard on me"
It makes sense in theory, but having to move on because of a seat belt seems a little...extreme. And not driving together...well...we live in a remote place where a trip to the big store takes 6 hours, round trip. Driving wo cars is impractical, to say the least...
Of course, I am just arguing, aren't I? Shucks. Sometimes we just have to CHOOSE a direction, huh? Just CHOOSE! Choose the thing we are complaining about or choose to fix it and accept the consequences. I think I sit looking at Door A and Door B and worrying. Complaining about the one, nervous about the other. Stalling. Stuck in a life eddy. We gotta go through a door, sooner or later.
Takingcharge - Anyway I'm learning for any relation to work , BOTH need to be BRUTALLY HONEST with themselves, if one of them is not, it will all go down the drain eventually.......
I feel that way. Recently, someone posted about Dr. Phil saying you should be able to do everything you do - in front of your partner. I really like that; that's brutal honesty with self AND other. The problem? My husband is VERY, VERY PRIVATE. He was when I met him. It took ages to learn him deeply (that should have been a clue!). So, I have overlooked the hiding because I want to respect his privacy. If I want "brutal honesty", that is, I think, not possible for him, as it would require such a fundamental change...so I am trying to figure out if there is a way I can request my "minimums" and still respect his privacy. The problem is, I now don't trust him, so any privacy on his part looks like secrecy. I'm pretty stuck on this issue.
at least I know I would be more interested in what the other says than in the ways I boycott myself .... I would be more interested in finding out if the other is honest or not..... than in sorting out what is it that I WANT.... and that's the basics, right?? knowing what one is REALLY after in the general picture?? what feeds your SOUL? isn't that the main topic???
Beauteous. Thank you. Right on.
Transform - Thank you! I am just trying to survive my life!
But honestly, the rational part of me knows that if I am worrying over something this much, the deed is done. I have major problems I just have to accept. I've seen it in my past in relationships. It's just SO HARD to have perspective on your own life! Put another way, it's hard to accept WHAT IS. It's stupid how much I don't want to. Ridiculous. LUDICROUS. Amazing. Breathtaking, really.Coffee- my replies (this is getting quite intricate, no?
These are his issues, they are deeply rooted and they CAN be addressed. That's the reason we go to therapy.
If he goes just to pacify me, does it matter?
When you say "matter", does it really mean he's not doing what you want? Going for the reason you believe he should be going?
I mean, will he get anything out of it for himself? Or do I just get to prove to myself (again) that he doesn't want to communicate? (I know, we can't predict the future!)
~~~
I wanna say I feel for you, and this is hard stuff. But you are making progress and we can keep our fingers crossed that your husband will too. That thing about this being the beginning of your future divorce, is just fear talking. Take that as a good sign.
What's good in that?
Good because I think your marriage is important to him. I think he has sat up and taken notice.
(wife scowls darkly) not sure it will CHANGE anything. I KNOW he loves me. He said he "considered" suicide the first time I went away for a few weeks to think things through (he won't discuss that now). (Not that that is a HEALTHY sign of love; It's totally JACKED! He's as codie, if not more, as me!) I just think he doesn't want to move an inch. Again, I know, I need to figure out what my bottom line requests are. I am going to journal more about that today.
~~
And the comment about you buying the VW Beetle and now wanting a Camry (or however he put it) -- that's his fear too.
I think you are talking about someone else here...buying the VW Beetle? What?
Sorry bout that, I always go off on these analogy things. I meant it's like you bought this swayback ol' mare when you married (him), but now you are angry because it's not a steed. (you want him to be better, a different model). Does that one make any sense?
LOL! Yep. You're right. I'd hate to have someone say "you're not good enough", too, and that's how he feels. But, I have to remember: it is okay to ask for what you need.
~~~
If he loved chocolate cookies when you got married, but now he has heart disease and diabetes and is overweight....well, wouldn't you have to address that? It was ok with you that he had a chocolate cookie habit 10 years ago because YOU DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS GOING TO CAUSE SUCH TERRIFIC PROBLEMS.
Weird because he DID get diabetes (Type 1, without the weight and heart disease), but this touches on another thing.
What if he doesn't eat right or doesn't wear his seat belt or abuses himself with alcohol. It impacts me, as his partner, but its HIS body. How do I balance the two? He feels its not my business. Is it, in any way, my business? And if so, how?
I think it's back to what you are willing to have in your life. If you just can't handle him driving without wearing a seatbelt, you tell him. "I love and care about you, but I need someone who cares about himself too. I need to know that when you're in a car you wear your seatbelt, and if you do not, I think I have to move on. It's too hard on me"
It makes sense in theory, but having to move on because of a seat belt seems a little...extreme. And not driving together...well...we live in a remote place where a trip to the big store takes 6 hours, round trip. Driving wo cars is impractical, to say the least...
Of course, I am just arguing, aren't I? Shucks. Sometimes we just have to CHOOSE a direction, huh? Just CHOOSE! Choose the thing we are complaining about or choose to fix it and accept the consequences. I think I sit looking at Door A and Door B and worrying. Complaining about the one, nervous about the other. Stalling. Stuck in a life eddy. We gotta go through a door, sooner or later.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
Originally Posted by anvilhead 
are you old enough to remember Bill Cosby's Chicken Heart schtick???? little kid is home alone and listening the radio and it's the story of The Chicken Heart, boom boom, boom boom, and the chicken heart gets bigger and bigger and it's eating everything, boom boom, boom boom, and the little kid is TERRIFIED, convinced the Chicken Heart is coming to get him, boom boom, boom boom, and then his brother comes in, the radio is blasting The Chicken Heart and the little brother is coming unglued...ahhhhh, the Chicken Heart is coming to get me, help..........and the older brother says....
TURN OFF THE RADIO.
click.
i never thought of that.
sometimes we can get SOOOOO transfixed on "our" Chicken Heart that we forget it's not "real" and that we CAN do something about it.
TURN OFF THE RADIO.
click.
i never thought of that.
sometimes we can get SOOOOO transfixed on "our" Chicken Heart that we forget it's not "real" and that we CAN do something about it.
But, but...
you're probably right.
Funny, 'cuz he really loves the scary radio programs that scare him. Then it gets too scary, but he's SO engaged with the story that he forgets its just a story.
Deep, really.
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
I'm sitting here smiling because I get it (and this will hereafter be known as "Anvil's Chicken Heart Detachment Analogy" I want you to know), but I also know how hard it is to turn off the radio on our thoughts.
It's like the d@mn thing is encased in lucite sometimes, and I can't get to the "off" button.....LOL
It's like the d@mn thing is encased in lucite sometimes, and I can't get to the "off" button.....LOL
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
Originally Posted by anvilhead
ok, somebody just missed the point.......i'm not talking about HIM dear....
<sigh> I am dense sometimes, but that one made sense.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,207
OMG! I love the Chicken Heart story! It reminds me of summers when my little ones start gasping for breath in the baby pool. I go hold them above water and say over and over til they get it:
Put your feet down. There is just no need to panic in 18 inches of water. "Put your feet down."
Put your feet down. There is just no need to panic in 18 inches of water. "Put your feet down."
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