Kassie2

Mitsy,

It is so true that some A's seem to get away with a lot of bad behavior - or as I see it - DrJekell/Mr Hyde behavior. And I agree that it seems many enable - even when they know the truth.

What I resent the most is that the normal consequences don't seem to phase them like they do me. He walks out on me - starts an argument - acts badly and apologizes and expects me to forgive in a split second without any comprehension of how he hurt me. But let me disagree - ask him to stop drinking or leave - apologize for inappropriate behavior and he can't get over it. Double standards. I drives me crazy.

But eventually the consequences add up - I imagine that RAH will end up alone and drink himself to death and never understand that things could have been different. The hard part of that scenario is that I have to let him go b/c I can't get through to him. I lose too and that part hurts. And it goes without saying that I could end up alone trying to stand by him and wait for him to see what he has right in front of him.

Kassie2

L2L,

hi again, reality check? inconsistent in behavior.... now there's a concept ... and then you point out the problem is that he hasn't made his mind up to stay sober... perhaps you are right again. He seemed so certain and believeable until recently- his behavior changed overnight and we havent' been able to get back to the good part. He admitted one slip when I refused to let things "just go back to the way they were" without more work. He supposedly has been going to meetings since then - but my gut says "no he hasn't" and after tonight's convo - I wonder again. I have seen old behavior for the past three weeks - and maybe that slip turned into a relapse -earlier tonight he was asking me why I would want to be married to a man like him? Told me he cancelled MC tommorrow, "but not therapy" whatever that means? - and blames on me for not calling earlier in the week to confirm that I was going? I ask how was I supposed to call him when he asks me not to call him all week and save the talk for MC. He's not making sense again -which should tell me something.

Kassie2

Mitsy,

I am going to agree again. I have heard the stories too of how spouses have waited it out and things turned around really well. I thought I could do that - but not so sure - like you I want more -think about being alone being better - but I have had enough of being alone in life and that should tell you all about where I am at - between a rock and a hard place. I want to have hope.

Kassie2

Can anyone give encouragement for a tired old woman who is afraid of losing while I am losing anyway.

Reality points the direction but it stings.

LaTeeDa

It might be easier if you just take him out of the equation for now. Start contemplating what you want out of life--with or without him. What's important to you? How do you want to live? Work on figuring those things out for now. Let him figure out his own. Then, after some time has passed, it will be easier to see if you and he are on the same page. Let go of the death grip you have on his outcomes and start working on your outcomes. I know from experience that it's much easier to obsess over someone else than it is to face the hidden chambers of your own soul. However, the rewards are worth it.

L

Kassie2

That it why I am here - to figure me out and my life. Everything is how I want it except for the relationship. So do I make a choice to end the M ( it is only 3 years old) and my )second one - and look again (not that I want to consider looking again) or face life alone which is the one thing I don't want anymore. Dilemma.

Mitsy

I just turned 49 a couple weeks ago but I don't think I look it & have been told I could pass for much younger.

Mitsy

Unfortunately, I think the consequences hit the alcoholic when the people in their lives have given up and some have moved on w/their lives as I'm trying to do right now. I actually sat and hoped in vain that my ex-guy would see the light. I kept thinking OK, NOW he's hit rock bottom when something else would happen. At one point when he called me at work & told me again how sorry he was for being hateful on the phone (AGAIN) during the time we were talking daily in June & he was supposedly off the booze, I told him that his apologies did not mean anything anymore. He'd said he was sorry and that he'd never yell at me again SO many times that it didn't mean much because he refused to get help for what caused it which was his drinking. He has known all along that I'm right but bottom line, he does not want to give it up. SO, he will likely die alone and he will have no one to blame but himself. He can't blame his Mom or one of his last bad relationships or someone who took advantage of him as the reasons to stay drunk.

As far as worrying about the future? I likely have some of the same worries you do. I have never married & I'm 49. I have no children. I have my Mom & sister and my sister doesn't live near me. I have quite a few friends, 2 jobs, and am involved in my church. But, I've yet to meet a man I had some attraction towards who also treated me right. My former guy (Robert) was 8 years younger than me. It was not an obvious age-spread as I don't think I look my age. But, one thing I keep in mind is just how miserable my life would be if I had stayed in this sad roller coaster ride any longer. I try to imagine even if he got sober what marriage would be like to him. I do believe he had personality quirks that were not becoming that were not related to the booze. He has a lot of anger in him about issues he should have sorted out long ago. So, the Jeckyl/Hyde personality totally fit Robert once his drinking got really bad. I could not believe I tolerated his anger so many times and accepted apologies only for him to do the same thing weeks later.

I have had to hold on to a measure of anger towards him and use that in order to keep my heart from falling for his pitiful phone message he left last week. I have to remember the sleepless nights & the heart palpitations and the anxiousness that I always had that I KNEW was not normal in a good relationship. It was not normal or good whatsoever. Perhaps there is some of this that you can relate to. Being alone is a LOT better than allowing a guy to disrespect us because he is screwed up and addicted to booze. I also hope to find someone someday who will make me wonder why I held on to Robert for so long. But having peace and some contentment in my life (even though it's lonely at times) is a lot better place to be than what I had with Robert. Keep that in mind as you work through your thoughts on this. I know Al-Anon had a huge impact on my thinking & there are many who have dealt with these same issues. Hope this helps.

LaTeeDa

Well, it seems to me you're putting a lot of weight on "relationship." This one or another one. If everything is truly how you want it-except for the relationship-then you would be content without a relationship. This one or another. So, it seems you have some work to do in figuring out why having a relationship holds so much weight with you.

FWIW, I have found that I don't have to look if I am in a good place with myself. Healthy people seem to find me if I am healthy. I have a romantic relationship right now, but I can honestly say that I would be just fine without it. My life is much bigger and more important than one person who I am with.

L

Kassie2

I will look at what you are saying. I didn't think I was putting a lot of weight on any "relationship" per se. I was just making the point that it was the only things that I haven't worked out yet for now. There's a lot I could say to defend how and why I feel this way but i don't want to bore anyone.

I have only been married for 3 years and my kids juscook and clean up. I need the down time. But there have been times when bad things happen at home and I can't fix them myself - or times when I have fallen and seriously harmed myself etc. If I have a problem - its up to me to solve it - sometimes I don't know t left home. I was looking forward to having time alone with my spouse. I didn't expect him to have this problem and to go through what we are going through. I thought when RAH got sober that things would get better and they did but then they didn't. It feels like a mystery to me.

It is partly where I am in life and partly the kind of life I had. I get afraid sometimes. I was never that way before. I was always a fighter but the fight is gone but not so much in a bad way. I wonder what will become of me sometimes. I guess I always thought that someday things would be good and i would be enjoying my life. I never imagined it going on the same way. I can't complain too much - nothing is awful - it just doesn't seem like it is supposed to be.

Ok, I am getting way too philosophical. Update today is that RAH called to make peace today. He has realized that holding onto resentments and seeking resolution over impossible situations is a waste of time and energy and doesn't get anybody closer to what they want. So we will try a date tommorrow at the park. I am not sure about this but I will see how it goes. I take being married seriously, but being married to an A is the worst test of a relationship.

Kassie2

Today's update: RAH cancelled the date. Said something about still wanting to work on the M but not today - can't get past things today. Said he would call later or I could call him.

My response right now is to stay away from the phone. I don't get how he makes the bad choices to cancel plans to move in and/or dates, and somehow he is too hurt and blames me for it. Rarely takes responsibility for his choices. Altho the difference today is that he said just not today - maybe later or tommorrow when he is feeling better which is not the same as "I'm out of here" and "this R is over".

What I don't like is that my responses aren't much better right now - I want to tell him how much hurt he has put on me and /or tell him I'm done. But in reality, I am looking at myself and my feelings sorting out what I want to do and what would be best for me. I want to move forward and can't until I am able to let go of my anger which is not as easy as I try to make it.:praying

LaTeeDa

I don't want you to think I am picking on you, and please don't feel like you have to defend yourself to me. I only want to try and show you a new perspective. If it clicks--great. If not--oh well.

And just how are things "supposed to be?" Who wrote those rules you are trying to model your life after? What would it be like to let go of the preconceived ideas you have about what life is "supposed to be," and just accept it for what it is? How would it feel to stop struggling to get somewhere and just be at peace with where you're at?

All rhetorical questions, of course. Please don't feel the need to answer me. Just something to think about--or not.

L

Kassie2

LaTeeDa,

Not to worry - I don't feel picked on at all. I am considering the questions put forth to see what is helpful. It is just a feeling I have - I am not following anyone's rules in particular - just being me. Not that I don't like being me - I don't like some parts of it - and kind of thought that at this point in my life things would be smoother.

Thanks for taking out the time to show me that someone cares and someone hears me living my life - (its the "witnessing my life" stuff).

LaTeeDa

"Shall We Dance?" Great movie.....

L

Daisy30

I have a couple of thoughts and forgive me if they don't fit in completely or maybe have already been stated

Have you educated yourself about the disease? I found the book "Marriage on the Rocks" very helpful along with the "Getting Them Sober" books.
Alanon has been very helpful in my life as well. It has given me that different perspective like LTD said.

I thought all of my issues were around my AH's drinking. I could have been quoted as saying "We only fight about one thing in our marriage". I thought everything was "peachy keen". I thought If he would only knock - it - off already.

But when I changed my focus from what He was doing to what I was doing....WOW it made a huge difference. I could set boundries, I was able to figure out my likes and dislikes all over again, I was able to stand firm in a decision that I had made (right or wrong) and not let others sway me. But I had too look at me. I was the answer/solution to the problem

((((hugs))))

Startingover2

Hey Kass....Some people are just chronically unhappy. Probably seen more in the alcoholics as its been such a crutch for them to drink in the first place.

Hope you had a good weekend. Look forward to an update today!

Mitsy

I will add another post about relationships and say that I do understand what Kassie is saying. A relationship should NOT be as hard as it is. I have had several relationships that did not work out. The first guy I stayed with for way too many years (something I regret) and he had no substance abuse issues whatsoever. What I have found is that there are few men who are what I'd call "mature" and "responsible". I have always had a tendency to want guys a few years younger than myself but even those the same age had maturity issues. It was different scenarios, but in the end, the guy turned out to be fickle, phony or otherwise didn't want to make the effort to make the relationship work. My mistake was working too hard when I saw things going downhill.

On the flip side of the coin, I will also say that if I had not made some effort in the past, then I would have had ZERO dates during the last 10 years or so. I had NO ONE calling or asking me out. I wasn't a hermit by any means but when you live in a fairly small town, it's hard to find eligible single men. I even did online dating and got disappointment and games. I had more than a couple men I was really interested in through the online dating process who turned out to be game-playing jerks. One guy claimed to be such a "Christian" & he ended up being a bigger game player than the rest.

It sort of jades a person. I can be happy to a degree on my own. But in the end, if we don't want to live our lives by ourselves, we must admit that if we sit back & say we're happy without someone, then we are only fooling ourselves. I believe that it isn't distorted or weak or needy to want to have a relationship. If we make no effort, men aren't going to come knocking...at least that has always been the case for myself. But, I think there's a line of definition here as far as accepting someone who has substance issues, maturity issues, or is simply not suited for us as the "option" of choice over going it alone. I know for myself, I would rather be by myself for the rest of my life than spend it with a man who continues to abuse alcohol and blame others for his own shortcomings.

LaTeeDa

I've done the same thing. And I had to ask myself why. What was so important to me about having a relationship? What was I afraid of?

True. I live in a small town also. Did the online thing also. The main thing I noticed is that "looking for a relationship" puts a whole different spin on things than "looking to meet someone I enjoy spending time with."

I think most people would prefer to have a significant other in their lives. I don't agree that not having one means "living your life by yourself," but I do understand what you're saying.

The different perspective I have come to is that I don't have control over whether my relationships last a lifetime, a few years, or a few weeks. I cannot know in advance if someone will change, I will change, or we both will change together. Recognizing red flags is important, but none of us can accurately predict the future.

I have come to be okay with that. If I end up without a romantic partner, then so be it. My life will not be complete or incomplete based on the presence or absence of someone else. I trust that I am exactly where I am supposed to be right now, and whatever comes my way in the future will also be exactly as it should. I'm not in charge of the plan. My job is to make the best of the time that is given me.

I can prefer to have a romantic partner in my life without demanding that the universe provide me with one. And that little change in attitude makes all the difference as to how I feel about whatever happens.

L

LaTeeDa

And, just to add to my original point, if I am set on and idea of how things "should" be, then I am setting myself up to feel disappointment, anger and resentment if things don't end up as I thought they "should."

On the other hand, if I accept the idea that I'm not the one in charge, and there is no "should," only what is, then I end up feeling grateful for what I have rather than cheated out of what I thought I "should" have.

L

Mitsy

I know what you're saying & I think it's hard to know how much effort to give or not. I have my own set of regrets from the past, but who knows, maybe I was not meant to find someone until later in life, but at 49, I kind of feel like it should have happened by now. At the very least, I know it was NOT my plan for things to turn out as they did with my last boyfriend. I truly did love him and a small part of me still loves him, but there is a point where we have to love ourselves enough to know we deserve better.

Most generally, being alone is still so much better than dealing with the drama and abuse of someone else's addiction. I sometimes also kid myself into believing that my ex-guy is going to magically get sober & become the guy I wanted him to be AFTER he's found someone else. However, past experience has taught me that if they have severe character defects, they aren't going to change for someone else. In the case of addiction, the odds are likely even smaller for that to happen. If they don't want to get sober for themselves, they don't want to get sober for someone else. I just need to remember that.