wanting

Hi, I have been lurking for a long time...finally posting.

My husband has been an alcoholic for a long time, and finally quit drinking almost 4 months ago. I had considered leaving him so many times before that, and finally had hope that things would work out after all. He attended AA for about a month and then stopped going. There are so many other things to add to this. After he quit drinking, he still stayed out until 4 a.m., hanging out with a group of single girls, and I really didn't like it. His response was basically, "First it was the drinking, now it's who I hang out with. You'll never be happy."

Anyway, about a month ago, he decided that he wanted a divorce. He says he doesn't have any feelings left for me, that he always imagined himself being married to someone "fun and spontaneous," and that he didn't want to try marriage counseling.

I've been through an emotional rollercoaster over the past month. I was completely devastated, then angry, then guilty, now slowly moving on to acceptance. I attended my first al-anon meeting 2 weeks ago. It was extremely hard, because for the first time, I saw my part in why things went wrong. I saw that I had treated my husband really terribly when he was drinking, almost like he wasn't human. It was so hard, that I didn't go back to al-anon last week. I went to a counseling session last Friday, and the counselor helped me to see that I had valid complaints in the marriage too. It was a real eye-opener. It's been this huge journey over the course of just a few weeks.

Anyway, I guess I was just wondering if this has happened to anyone else. I see a lot of people on here who have been left while the alcoholic is still drinking and a lot of people who have left the alcoholic. Has anyone been left by their newly sober partner? I just can't help but feel like his decision is not being made with a clear head. He seems to have amnesia about any good times we've had, and he seems to think that leaving me is the key to his happiness.

isurvived

From what I can glean from your husband's behavior... is:

He's "sober, but not attending AA" - which means he won't be sober for long.

As for him wanting to leave the marriage - I think you could compare it to another well known denial tactic called "geographical cure" - except your AH is seeking to replace his wife for another woman (or women) rather than a location to start over. Geographical cures don't work, and his new relationship cure won't either.

I guess if it were me, I'd use his "cooperative exit the marriage mood" to my best advantage - financially. Get all you can and get out while the getting's good!

PrettyViolets

I sympathize. This was my biggest fear for my husband when he was recovering. He would go through a couple of months of recovery, and then he would relapse.

And then I would go to his AA meetings, and there would be divorced people or even good looking girls there. I just had to have confidence that I was a good looking girl but I had my life together (and he knew that he was only going to be in my life if he was sober and had a job).

I am lucky though. My inlaws really like me, and a lot of his recovery was in their home town. So being that he was around his parents who have been married for a long time, it kept him accountable.

I have a good looking husband. He is tall, dark and handsome. He was so angry when we were first married. He has had to work more on being a better husband. It is good that he now recognizes when he gets angry, and he holds himself more accountable. And it helps him to stay sober by cleaning, gardening, drinking coffee, etc.

When you are dealing with an alcoholic, it is like you are dealing with Dr. Jekyl and Mr Hyde. And when he is at his worst, it was easy for me to decide that the marriage would not work out, but when he was at his best, I just wanted to try to hold on to the marriage because I had so much time put into it.

Now that he is sober, and we are living together again. He is really great. We have a good friendship, and a cute bear collection. It is not just one way. Sometimes he will go shopping with me and watch some of my favorite television shows like Hallmark channel. But I also try to do things that he wants to do. I recently expressed that I want a WII sport, because he has an Xbox 360 and I thought there were more girl games.

Sometimes you just got to let them go and have confidence in yourself now. And if they come back, then it is your decsion if you take them and you are in control. If they do not come back, it is another path that you will need to go down, but in the end it may be a healthier path than if he had stayed.

I talked to a woman this weekend who was divorced. And her concern was that her previous husband was not faithful and got in trouble with the law. They had a little boy. And now ex husband is in prison. And she really cannot discuss with her young boy where his father is (he is six). But I think that she feels better that she is dating another guy who is better for her, and he has kids--she seemed so happy--and we just chatting and just enjoying the party that we were at. That is what you have to look forward to is a life where you can really enjoy life for what is really is.

kv816

Someone posted on here not too long ago about a conversation she had with an old friend who was in recovery.

He gave her a list of things to expect and one of them was that many alcoholics will leave a relationship once sobering up. It's not so much a love thing (or a lack there of) but they realize all the hurt and pain they've caused and it becomes too much for them to deal with. Apologizing is hard to do--even if you know you owe one.

But I agree with Trying. If he's sober but not attending AA.....than he won't be sober long. Do you think all these people he's hanging out with until 4 in the morning aren't drinking? Do you think any of them understand the disease? One may not hurt you or me. But for an alcoholic, one always turns into two and then three and so on and so forth until it's four in the morning.

Ago

Welcome to the site

Quote:

My husband has been an alcoholic for a long time, and finally quit drinking almost 4 months ago.

Congratulations, now things get different though

Quote:

Anyway, about a month ago, he decided that he wanted a divorce. He says he doesn't have any feelings left for me, that he always imagined himself being married to someone "fun and spontaneous," and that he didn't want to try marriage counseling.

When I was in this position while I was deeply sorry for the pain I had caused I was DEEPLY angry for how I perceived I had been treated. One of the things not discussed on this forum too often is the damaging behavior goes both ways, an alcoholic dynamic frequently becomes two people hurting each other in so many many ugly ways, when the alcoholic gets sober, frequently this stuff starts coming up, and the alcoholics gets P1SSED, right or wrong, chicken or egg, there was two people getting hurt in this dynamic, regardless of WHO "started it" as it were.

Couples counseling/Therapy was the only thing that got me through this frankly.
Congratulations for getting help, it is a roller coaster

Well, that goes two ways, once again there are two parts here, not just "all" you, nor "all" him, admitting your behavior and the fact you have/had a part is the first step in recovering, most people go through their entire life blaming and finger pointing and not accepting responsibility for their own behavior, I can't congratulate you enough and let you know this is the beginning of recovery is recognizing your own behavior and taking responsibility for it, then moving forward and making the necessary changes. They say only a fraction of alcoholics recover, judging from the population of AA as opposed to the population of Alanon meetings I'd say less codies get into recovery, so for you to go to make changes for yourself and attend alanon is HUGE.

Marriage counselors are so empowering aren't they? They help you see your part but empower you to make changes at the same time. awesome.

:ghug3


It's being made with an absolutely clear head, it may be an anger based decision but it's his, and needs to be respected.

He's as angry as you are.


In nearly twenty years of attending meetings and working with others I have NEVER ever ever heard this as a reason for ending a relationship, nor even heard it brought up in meetings. I may go as far as to call complete and utter BS on this one, the entire purpose of the program and the steps is to deal with this stuff, not run from it.



OK, All that being said, my experience is it may or may not be over, frequently there ARE bumps, ups and downs and frequent break-ups in early sobriety, sometimes there is reconciliation, sometimes there isn't, the best thing I can say is continue with your own recovery for oh so many reasons.

Congratulations and :ghug3 for your journey

bluejay6

Welcome Wanting,

My feeling is that your husband is still quite the alcoholic....my guess is that if he isn't secretly drinking, he will be openly drinking very soon. Four months is a wisp of a moment in sobriety, and as you say, he was an alcoholic for a long time. You did not mention rehab. And apparently he has simply visited AA.

That being said, he is a full blown alcoholic in my opinion, and with that comes the emotional damage he will purposely attempt to inflict on you. Addicts are fueled by resentments, and they create resentments out of thin air, and I believe that in his puffed up addict egomania, he has decided you simply aren't worth his trouble. Meaning, he is unwilling to do the mature work of repairing a deeply damaged relationship and earning back your trust and respect. He is TOO SELFISH to do so and my feeling is that he is very unlikely to change, given his lackluster commitment to recovery.

I have to say, I do not feel you owe him ANY apologies for extreme behavior or language from you which was caused by HIS ABUSE. Addicts ABUSE PEOPLE, and I am constantly angered when I hear beaten down spouses saying they owe their ABUSER an apology.

I do believe your responsibility is to look at yourself and acknowledge that you probably engaged in ongoing denial and rationalization of the reality of your marriage and made yourself put up with loneliness and emotional hardship you did not deserve. The reason you did so was in large part because you were affected by his addiction and his abuse. But there may be other reasons from your life history which gave you the message that you were not worthy of a more worthy man. And those will be important to understand and to heal.

Wanting, read all you can about addicts. It will protect you with a rock solid wall against his insidious need to hurt you.

Bluejay

naive

hi wanting-

if he says he wants a divorce, the translation is : he wants to get on with his drinking.

your husband thinks it's unreasonable that you don't like him hanging out until 4AM with a bunch of single girls?

he's blaming you for not being fun and spontaneous?

that's ridiculous! are you sure he's not drinking?

i hope you continue to go to alanon. the fact that it brought up a lot of personal issues is good! that's a positive sign that you are entering your own recovery, even if he isn't.

keep moving forward with your self-accountability and i would grant him his divorce. a non-contested divorce should fly through the court system. when i divorced in the states, i did mine myself. i went to the divorce office in the court building with my husband, filled in the papers together, signed them and paid $45. we had a court hearing scheduled a month later, both went and then went out to lunch. it was so easy!

if i was a betting person, i would wager a bet that if you say "great, let's get that divorce." he'll pack pedal. it's a typical bluff.

i don't think much of this has to do with you and everything to do with continuing to drink and manipulate you.

hope you call his bluff!

naive

totfit

Best thing that will ever happen to you.

Freedom1990

For me, sobriety is threefold-physical (abstinence), emotional, and spiritual in nature.

Abstinence only is not sobriety.

It sounds like all he has done is quit drinking, and that's it.

The immaturity, irresponsibility, disrespect, and a host of other things are still there.

He thinks his happiness lies in outside resources, when in fact it's very much an inside job.

I know how badly you are hurting. I had to leave my EXAH when I got clean/sober because he was still active using/drinking and was abusive in every sense of the word.

I had to save myself.

:ghug2 :ghug2

kv816

I am sorry, I should have worded that different. I didn't mean YOU as in you Wanting owe an apology. I meant you as in people in general. I agree with BlueJay, YOU don't owe him ANY apologies.

Will I ever get any of the apologies I always wanted? No. Because he'll never work the program and never get to the part where he makes his list of people he had harmed and make amends to them. Because until he does work the program, he'll never think he's done anything wrong and therefore never THINK he owes an apology.

Learn2Live

Wanting, honey, you know exactly what he is doing with the single girls until 4AM, no matter WHAT he says (LIES) or who he blames (YOU). He does not care whether or not his behavior is appropriate, reasonable, hurtful, selfish, or damaging-to himself, to you, or to anybody else. It has NOTHING to do with you, your worth, your marriage, his vows, his loyalty. NOTHING but the pursuit of a good feeling from moment to moment.

Often, things like going to counseling, seeing psychiatrists, and going to support groups like Al-Anon go hand-in-hand. It's important to recognize that Al-Anon is a support group of MANY people and functions to reveal yourself to you in a non-threatening manner. At the same time, the counselor is ONE person who can provide you specific feedback and perspective on what you learn about yourself in Al-Anon. The more people you have surrounding you during this time, the better. Don't give up on Al-Anon. But it's OK to go at your own pace. :O)

I am so glad to hear that you see it is a journey. So many people never get to this understanding. This journey is called your life. And it leads progressively to self-actualization. I hope it is a long and productive journey for you.

Yes, many many people.

wanting

I'm positive he's not cheating (in the technical sense) and I'm positive he's not drinking. But the not cheating doesn't make me feel any better - he doesn't care how his actions make me feel. It's hard to imagine him actually drinking again (not that it's an impossibility), although I can see him just being miserable forever. He didn't go to rehab, just decided to quit drinking one day and went to AA. He kind of went in a huff after peeing in our bed for the 497th time after a night of drinking while his drunk friend was visiting from out of town. He really liked it at first, but then replaced the meetings with hanging out with friends. After a few months of no meetings, he finally went to one last week and had nothing but negative things to say - the people are dumb, the God stuff is dumb, all people do is whine about their lives and dry-hump the program. All stuff that tells me that he doesn't want to work on his problems. It has gotten easier over the past few weeks to see that I really don't have a lot to lose if we get divorced. At first, I felt like I was losing my best friend, my soulmate, my perfect life. Then I realized - oh, I've been alone this whole time. I went to my second al-anon meeting last night. I didn't mean to indicate before that I'd never go back. I just needed a couple of weeks to process all that I'd learned and felt at the first one. Last night's was good - I learned a lot.

It's still so hard for me to understand the selfish mind of an alcoholic, though. It's really fascinating, all of the irrational justifications for behavior. Did you know that my husband drank because I made him miserable? This means that he had the amazing psychic ability to see 10 years into the future and start drinking to get a head start before marrying me!

PurpleWilder

It has gotten easier over the past few weeks to see that I really don't have a lot to lose if we get divorced. At first, I felt like I was losing my best friend, my soulmate, my perfect life. Then I realized - oh, I've been alone this whole time.

Sad, but essentially true when living with addicts of any kind.

Don't you think it is funny that we end up running everything in their lives - food, shelter, medical care, rehab, appointment, houses, childcare, etc.... and yet somehow always seem to doubt we can survive on our own? By that time we could probably successfully run a military coup! What a contradiction!

I think it is obvious he is working what my recovering friends used to call "Step Zero". He has no program, no plan for recovery, zip. But that doesn't appear to be the case for you.

Keep going to those Al-Anon meetings. They can feel awkward at first, especially the sharing part. When you are used to trying to keep things quiet about your life because you are wondering what people will think (shame) it is hard to share. Just go and sit. Go and cry. Go and share. But make sure you go.

TakingCharge999

wanting

I hope you realize you are, have always been and will continue being the strong mature one.

I laughed when my therapist told me that, but he is like a kid, oh don't wanna play MY game? you are out, ha ha ha !!

"Fun and spontaneous"=A doormat who I can abuse and will drink the same as me and make me feel I dont really have an issue and can provide sex whenever I want to without asking anything in return and compliment me and give up anything for me and inflate my ego

Keep moving forward... its great you see your own side of things!

Still Waters

I think that needs to be repeated again. This is not someone making decisions with anything near what we would consider a clear head - but, we can't control their actions and decisions whether they are sober or not.

StepZero, I like that Dirtmagnet!

killingmesmalls

I'm the alcoholic in my marriage of 6 years. I have 8 days clean, and I am trying to work the AA program. We have 3 small children together, and I have made many many excuses over the years to not really work a program for sobriety - I would stay abstinent for a stint and then be back to where I started. When I met me husband I was on ant-abuse - which for the time being worked great simply because I could not cheat on it - the medication stayed in your system for 3 weeks after taking a pill, meaning I couldn't all of a sudden decide I just wanted to go out drinking that night. It worked well for staying off alcohol, but eventually I started to smoke pot instead - shortly after that I went off it. It never really got to the root of what was going on.

Anyway my husband would argue that I wasn't an alcoholic, and that I just got carried away some nights - I am a binge drinker. We've had many fights over the years - mainly about that he didn't understand why I couldn't just stop or keep it to a few like he did. I think he didn't want to be with someone that was at the extremes - either full blown drunk or completely sober - black or white. So we rarely went out, through the years I have become a shut in for lack of a better word - where I drink either with him or by myself. He wouldn't invite me out because like me he wants to keep this part of our life secret or was fearful of an scene in public, or simply wanted to hang out with the guys. There has been a huge amount of guilt on my part, for what I have put him through & also for being the mom that has the issue. I have been so afraid all these years to come clean about what was really going on because I was afraid I would ultimately loose my children. It kept me in a very dark place that was easier to cope with when I drank - it makes me literally sick that I am this way. I hate it, and that is why I am here.

I have fears about what will happen now that I am working on sobriety. I think a lot about my relationship with my husband, and how he has used my drinking problem as an excuse for himself to to whatever he pleases. I love him and he is great in many ways - but I have always felt like he has used this issue as a pawn in our relationship. I hope I am wrong and just looking at it from a really off perspective. But it is in the back of my mind - where will our relationship go now that this is not factoring in? Like the fact that he stayed out until 3 AM the night I told him I was going to AA meetings. I don't know if I was jealous that I wasn't invited, that I admitted to myself that I can't handle drinking situations anyway, that he didn't want to stay home, or really that he refused to compromise at all about going out - unwilling to come home at any pre-determined time or care much what I thought about it. I know that it is me that has to deal with this issue, that no one else can fix me but myself - but damn he is so detached from it all, sometimes it just doesn't seem like he want to be part of it at all. As long as I am cleaning, cooking, having sex with him - he wants to be involved and basically served - and I just feel very alone in dealing with this part of my life. I fear that I won't want to stay with him because I no longer dull down my feels with drinking. I really hope this is not the way it plays out.

I am not trying to be full of self pity, when I write it down it sure sounds like it though. I guess I am replying because I don't know what the future holds and your post really stuck out to me. I empathize with your situation with your husband, and agree with most replies that you should go through with a divorce; but also realize that it is not always that simple. Even if drinking wasn't a factor - you deserve better in a marriage than having a husband stay out all night with whoever. There are many parts of what you say that I can relate to as the woman in the relationship, and there also parts I can relate to as the alcoholic in the marriage. I wish you the best and agree that you should keep going to meetings. It's been astonishing to me to find so many people going through the same on this site. I try to remember that things happen for a reason, it might not always be clear at the time that they happen; but down the road what might have seemed like the worst thing you have faced was actually the best unwished for blessing you could imagine.

Ago

Well, you've gotten some great advice here

You were advised:

to take the money and run, there are a lot of words to describe this type of behavior, I just can't think of any flattering ones off the top of my head at the moment

You were told:
or words to that effect repeatedly, or that he is only leaving you to be able to drink, that he WILL drink again, I think it's great we have so many mind readers that can see the future here at SR
I would like to compare that statement to this one, posted by the one person that actually has experience getting sober on this thread besides myself on this thread

The reasoning however behind an alcoholic such as Freedom leaving a spouse when she gets sober has been given as:


and:
I don't believe either of these reasons apply to Freedom for example, and quite frankly to make the assumption they apply to your husband is a stretch at best, irresponsible at worst. To say these are the only reasons an alcoholic would leave is....just...no comment.

To also make the assumption that the only reason he is leaving you is to:


That's making quite a leap, the only reason he is leaving you is to inflict pain on you?

That's OK, you were told although you:

Quote:

I saw that I had treated my husband really terribly when he was drinking, almost like he wasn't human.

You don't need to apologize nor be sorry for treating another human being like an animal, that this is considered acceptable behavior to treat alcoholics like animals here on F and F evidently.

Personally, I agree with you, I was MORTIFIED by my behavior and regardless of what had "been done to me" MY RECOVERY DEMANDED I SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT, not everyone agrees, that's actually OK, I don't 'want what they have", I want recovery, I want to be happy, joyous and free, and for me, I learned that it was only possible by cleaning up my OWN side of the street.

Freedom was also treated "like an animal" did she deserve to be treated like that? Does she deserve an apology? Is she entitled to being treated with human dignity? To make her own choices? Did she leave her relationship to manipulate her husband? just to inflict pain on him?

Sometimes newly sober alcoholics leave relationships because they are unhealthy.

The bottom line is I DON'T know the whole story, nor does anyone replying, the only thing I can say I needed to seek help, I needed to go to meetings, I needed to keep going to a therapist, I needed to work the steps and clean up my side of the street and get clear on what my part was if I wanted to be free from it, if he is in fact abusive, then it's good it's the parting of the ways, for me, I needed TONS of help and support because I had a huge case of Stockholm Syndrome.

The bottom line for me was to seek help from people who had what I wanted, to find people who were happy, joyous and free, and go where they go, do what they did, because I wanted what they had, if I wanted to learn to be bitter, blaming, angry and vindictive, I know where to go to learn how to do that too.

Well we have an entire thread here taking his inventory, that's great, now this is just for me, but if I wanted to recover I had to find people that would help me take MY inventory, so I could be clear of what my part was in order to be free of it and learn to not put myself in that position again.

I say keep going to alanon and therapy, find happy people who have actually recovered and go where they go, do what they do, and you will get what they have.

It's your life, your choices.

Have a great day

Still Waters

Ago,

We gave our opinion based on our experiences, so did you. I don't believe that you are a mind reader any more than we are.

You don't know that.

You don't know that either.

I'm sorry that our opinion, thoughts, shares aren't what you think they should be.

campsurf

I agree.. but be grateful for any sobriety... almost 5 yrs ago I confronted my wife with her pain pill addiction ... plus she had started drinking again.. I offered treatment or she had to move out... she started screaming that it was all my fault... blah.. blah...blah... she is still drinking and using today.. she had over 10 yrs of active recovery...

The is no understanding the mind of an alcoholic... know that you are not alone.. it does get better..

Jim

Freedom1990

Seriously, be glad you don't understand. The only way you could is to be an alcoholic yourself.

I didn't even understand most of what I was doing while still in active alcoholism, though I tried to rationalize it like crazy.

He sounds perfectly miserable, to be honest. He will reap what he sows in the end, guaranteed.

I wish you health, happiness, and peace of mind! :ghug2