Just starting a long road
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 63
Sorry....I just misinterpreted when I read in your other post "short of losing one of my three gorgeous daughters."
One of those quirks about English....you can take stuff different ways.
Back to the A behavior.
My ah's dad's health is not good and he's 76.
I know that if my ah's drinking caused or resulted in his own death....it would literally kill his dad....and his mom is a very strong woman....but losing a child, regardless of the child's age, is one of those things you can't predict a parent's reaction to.
It's one of the most frustrating things to explain to the A....is how many people's lives they would gravely affect if they died as a result of the drinking...whether the wife says it or a parent, adult child, or sibling.
We've already known that would fall on deaf ears while they're still drunk....
When the A is potted and beligerent......they don't Care what their behavior is doing to others......and their drinking "friends" are no help whatsoever.
It has been made clear to my ah when sober, that the drinking is extremely destructive....and he did listen.....didn't say anything argumentative.
When he came in last Wed. intoxicated, but that time it was Mildly intoxicated....he was up at noon Thursday on his way to meet a business partner for lunch (one who Doesn't drink).....and had plans to use the tractor that afternoon.
I did something I had never done before....when he is leaving for the day.
I didn't say anything and I didn't ask one question about what he was doing.
I also didn't call his cell phone one time that day.
He finally called me about 920pm (sober) and asked if everything was Ok....saying, "You usually call me during the day, checking on me".....
I said "I just decided not to bother you at all."
(I had just spoken to a local al-anon sponsor the afternoon before and I was practicing "hands off/no reaction/no help".)
When he came home later Thurs. night he was still sober.
He was sober when he came in Friday night.
Last night he'd had several beers and when he came home he apologized and said "I'm sorry, I know I over-indulged."
Now, I know about empty apologies......but he NEVER apologized before....and it wasn't a response to anything I said....it was unsolicited.
So I will continue the no reaction/no help/no comments.
I'm sorry.....I just started rambling on about all that....
One of those quirks about English....you can take stuff different ways.
Back to the A behavior.
My ah's dad's health is not good and he's 76.
I know that if my ah's drinking caused or resulted in his own death....it would literally kill his dad....and his mom is a very strong woman....but losing a child, regardless of the child's age, is one of those things you can't predict a parent's reaction to.
It's one of the most frustrating things to explain to the A....is how many people's lives they would gravely affect if they died as a result of the drinking...whether the wife says it or a parent, adult child, or sibling.
We've already known that would fall on deaf ears while they're still drunk....
When the A is potted and beligerent......they don't Care what their behavior is doing to others......and their drinking "friends" are no help whatsoever.
It has been made clear to my ah when sober, that the drinking is extremely destructive....and he did listen.....didn't say anything argumentative.
When he came in last Wed. intoxicated, but that time it was Mildly intoxicated....he was up at noon Thursday on his way to meet a business partner for lunch (one who Doesn't drink).....and had plans to use the tractor that afternoon.
I did something I had never done before....when he is leaving for the day.
I didn't say anything and I didn't ask one question about what he was doing.
I also didn't call his cell phone one time that day.
He finally called me about 920pm (sober) and asked if everything was Ok....saying, "You usually call me during the day, checking on me".....
I said "I just decided not to bother you at all."
(I had just spoken to a local al-anon sponsor the afternoon before and I was practicing "hands off/no reaction/no help".)
When he came home later Thurs. night he was still sober.
He was sober when he came in Friday night.
Last night he'd had several beers and when he came home he apologized and said "I'm sorry, I know I over-indulged."
Now, I know about empty apologies......but he NEVER apologized before....and it wasn't a response to anything I said....it was unsolicited.
So I will continue the no reaction/no help/no comments.
I'm sorry.....I just started rambling on about all that....
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Baghdad
Posts: 2,822
Originally Posted by starflier 
If you want to read the letter, I'll post it here as I would really value the critique and support.
Thank you so very much!
I don't know if our reading the letter will help, most of the folks here have experienced most everything you have, if we posted our individual stories you would be struck by that sense of recognition. You will find an enormous amount of support, experience, strength, and hope in these forums to help you to get your own life back.
Last edited by sailorjohn; 06-29-2008 at 02:14 PM. Reason: typo
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 172
Originally Posted by starflier
I've been reading all your posts for the past few days, and you've given me the courage to tell my story. I'm sorry it's so long. At the end, I have a few questions if you could be so kind to help me.
My partner and I have been together for 17.5 years. She's 10 years younger than me. I'll be 53 next month. How to put a lifetime into just a few words? I grew up in a very disfunctional family, six kids, abusive mother and distant father, but no alcohol. I knew I was gay by the time I was about 10 years old, but back in those days there wasn't the support there is today.
I ended up marrying a man who was almost 18 years older than me and very abusive. Basically, I married my mother in terms of his personality and behavior. He drank a lot and smoked a lot of pot, and a couple of years into our relationship, he started doing even harder drugs. By the time our first child was born, my EXH was in a pretty bad place. Then, he got religion. Even though this was a strange cult-like form of Christianity, the positive changes it wrought in my EXH were so enormous, I agreed to join as well. He was no longer drinking or doing drugs, and he was much calmer.
Hard to keep this short, but during the course of the next 14 years we stayed in this cult and we had a total of 5 children, but one died of crib death. Meanwhile, my EXH was still abusive, even with the religion. He punched me in the face whenever I disagreed with him, even if I was holding a baby. He was verbally and emotionally abusive as well. What finally gave me the courage to leave him was that I fell in love with my best friend and we had an affair. For the first time in my life, I knew what it felt like to be loved. She had a family and her own problems, so our affair was brief, but just that understanding that I was worth way more than my EXH wanted me to know, gave me the strength to leave him and the religion. When you have been abused that long, and you have four children and no career, leaving is hard.
A few months later, I met my present partner. I was 35 years old, but extremely naive. My partner (I'll call her AP) was only 25, very worldly and experienced. I was astonished that every activity with her had to be accompanied by alcohol. My life had been devoid of alcohol for so long, that I couldn't recognize her behavior was extreme. But, after a couple of weeks, it became clear to me that she was an alcoholic. I broke up with her. She began coming to my apartment and banging on my windows, climbing the downspouts, and bothering my neighbors. Stupid me, I let her back into my life.
When I think back over all the years we've been together now, I am still amazed that I've been so innocent. I was obviously primed for this relationship by all my previous experiences, so incidents that would horrify a normal, whole person, I just process with equanimity and the idea that "tomorrow will come and it will be better." And, almost without fail, throughout my life, tomorrow is better. My AP stuck with me through some pretty bad life moments, like the drowning death of my oldest child, and I have always felt that I needed to stick with her through her problems. Difference is that most of her problems were of her own making.
I'm sure none of you need a litany of my experiences with my AP. You can picture the wrecking of vehicles, the DUIs, the disappearing on weekends when she was supposed to help me at our business, the embarrassment in front of children, the inability to tell the truth, but always the constant lovabilty and the support of my hopes and dreams that continued to make me feel valued. It didn't matter what I wanted to do, start a new business, move a thousand miles away, start another new business, whatever it was she supported me and made me feel like I could do it. As she was almost constantly drunk all these years, it's surprising to me how much energy she had to physically help me in those endeavors as well as just tell me how much she believed in me.
Many times I have realized that I am her enabler. I make sure all the bills get paid, if she's passed out drunk, I make sure the trash is out at the curb. I drive the car and buy the groceries. She does some things, like laundry, dishes, etc., but there's no consistency. I never know what she'll do or not. If she's drinking heavily on a weekend, she may move all the furniture and clean the baseboards, or she might disappear and I might not see her for a couple of days as she "slums it" and wastes money with her crack friends.
I think the worst thing I do is that I buy the wine that is stocked in the house so she won't get in trouble going out to get it. I lie to myself that having wine in the house will stop her from going out in public drunk. It's not true. Two days ago she spent the morning at home getting drunk, then rode her bike down a busy hill road, crashed at the bottom, and a woman I know called the fire department. Then, the woman recognized my AP, and called me. I take the bus to work, so I took a cab home, got my car, and picked up my AP and her bike. It was extremely embarrassing.
When we got back home, I know better than to talk to a drunk person, but it was very irritating to listen to her talk about how much fun that all was. I told her, "No, that was not fun. That was the exact opposite of fun." Still no apology, and I know it won't happen. She looks on those experiences as adventures, and seems incapable of seeing how they affect me and has no embarrassment of how she appears to others.
Okay, I'll wind this down, as I could go on for too long. After all these years, good times and bad, we have stuck together, sometimes one doing more financial support than the other, but I've always known she wouldn't let me down in the end. I love her terribly. But, I know that I deserve a better life. I deserve an equal partner. I have a long road to go to heal myself, and I need to get started.
I told her two weeks ago when she disappeared overnight that if she ever does that again, I will leave her. I am unsure how to progress to make that happen, but I will do it. She's been home every night since then.
I have prepared a letter to give to her that says in order for us to stay together she must stop drinking and begin an honest recovery program. She's tried a few things over the years, but allowed herself to fail. I don't want any more excuses this time, just results. In my letter, I say that we need to talk about how this all happens. What the boundaries are and what happens if they're crossed. In the letter, I say that all alcohol must disappear from the house and I will no longer buy it. I haven't given her the letter yet because I need some help in knowing if it's written properly and also how to carry through with the steps.
If my AP agrees to stop and says she will go into recovery, I need some help understanding how to enforce what the letter says. One major problem is that her half-brother is arriving to stay with us for the summer. He's from overseas, 22 years old, and speaks very little English. My AP barely knows him, and is excited about getting to know him. She says he is a light drinker. How do I handle the fact that if she agrees to stop drinking she's going to say she wants to start after her brother leaves? I know she's going to need some detox time and it will be hard while he's here, but I'm not convinced it's impossible. It might even be the best time for her to start recovery because he'll be here to distract her.
If you want to read the letter, I'll post it here as I would really value the critique and support.
Thank you so very much!
My partner and I have been together for 17.5 years. She's 10 years younger than me. I'll be 53 next month. How to put a lifetime into just a few words? I grew up in a very disfunctional family, six kids, abusive mother and distant father, but no alcohol. I knew I was gay by the time I was about 10 years old, but back in those days there wasn't the support there is today.
I ended up marrying a man who was almost 18 years older than me and very abusive. Basically, I married my mother in terms of his personality and behavior. He drank a lot and smoked a lot of pot, and a couple of years into our relationship, he started doing even harder drugs. By the time our first child was born, my EXH was in a pretty bad place. Then, he got religion. Even though this was a strange cult-like form of Christianity, the positive changes it wrought in my EXH were so enormous, I agreed to join as well. He was no longer drinking or doing drugs, and he was much calmer.
Hard to keep this short, but during the course of the next 14 years we stayed in this cult and we had a total of 5 children, but one died of crib death. Meanwhile, my EXH was still abusive, even with the religion. He punched me in the face whenever I disagreed with him, even if I was holding a baby. He was verbally and emotionally abusive as well. What finally gave me the courage to leave him was that I fell in love with my best friend and we had an affair. For the first time in my life, I knew what it felt like to be loved. She had a family and her own problems, so our affair was brief, but just that understanding that I was worth way more than my EXH wanted me to know, gave me the strength to leave him and the religion. When you have been abused that long, and you have four children and no career, leaving is hard.
A few months later, I met my present partner. I was 35 years old, but extremely naive. My partner (I'll call her AP) was only 25, very worldly and experienced. I was astonished that every activity with her had to be accompanied by alcohol. My life had been devoid of alcohol for so long, that I couldn't recognize her behavior was extreme. But, after a couple of weeks, it became clear to me that she was an alcoholic. I broke up with her. She began coming to my apartment and banging on my windows, climbing the downspouts, and bothering my neighbors. Stupid me, I let her back into my life.
When I think back over all the years we've been together now, I am still amazed that I've been so innocent. I was obviously primed for this relationship by all my previous experiences, so incidents that would horrify a normal, whole person, I just process with equanimity and the idea that "tomorrow will come and it will be better." And, almost without fail, throughout my life, tomorrow is better. My AP stuck with me through some pretty bad life moments, like the drowning death of my oldest child, and I have always felt that I needed to stick with her through her problems. Difference is that most of her problems were of her own making.
I'm sure none of you need a litany of my experiences with my AP. You can picture the wrecking of vehicles, the DUIs, the disappearing on weekends when she was supposed to help me at our business, the embarrassment in front of children, the inability to tell the truth, but always the constant lovabilty and the support of my hopes and dreams that continued to make me feel valued. It didn't matter what I wanted to do, start a new business, move a thousand miles away, start another new business, whatever it was she supported me and made me feel like I could do it. As she was almost constantly drunk all these years, it's surprising to me how much energy she had to physically help me in those endeavors as well as just tell me how much she believed in me.
Many times I have realized that I am her enabler. I make sure all the bills get paid, if she's passed out drunk, I make sure the trash is out at the curb. I drive the car and buy the groceries. She does some things, like laundry, dishes, etc., but there's no consistency. I never know what she'll do or not. If she's drinking heavily on a weekend, she may move all the furniture and clean the baseboards, or she might disappear and I might not see her for a couple of days as she "slums it" and wastes money with her crack friends.
I think the worst thing I do is that I buy the wine that is stocked in the house so she won't get in trouble going out to get it. I lie to myself that having wine in the house will stop her from going out in public drunk. It's not true. Two days ago she spent the morning at home getting drunk, then rode her bike down a busy hill road, crashed at the bottom, and a woman I know called the fire department. Then, the woman recognized my AP, and called me. I take the bus to work, so I took a cab home, got my car, and picked up my AP and her bike. It was extremely embarrassing.
When we got back home, I know better than to talk to a drunk person, but it was very irritating to listen to her talk about how much fun that all was. I told her, "No, that was not fun. That was the exact opposite of fun." Still no apology, and I know it won't happen. She looks on those experiences as adventures, and seems incapable of seeing how they affect me and has no embarrassment of how she appears to others.
Okay, I'll wind this down, as I could go on for too long. After all these years, good times and bad, we have stuck together, sometimes one doing more financial support than the other, but I've always known she wouldn't let me down in the end. I love her terribly. But, I know that I deserve a better life. I deserve an equal partner. I have a long road to go to heal myself, and I need to get started.
I told her two weeks ago when she disappeared overnight that if she ever does that again, I will leave her. I am unsure how to progress to make that happen, but I will do it. She's been home every night since then.
I have prepared a letter to give to her that says in order for us to stay together she must stop drinking and begin an honest recovery program. She's tried a few things over the years, but allowed herself to fail. I don't want any more excuses this time, just results. In my letter, I say that we need to talk about how this all happens. What the boundaries are and what happens if they're crossed. In the letter, I say that all alcohol must disappear from the house and I will no longer buy it. I haven't given her the letter yet because I need some help in knowing if it's written properly and also how to carry through with the steps.
If my AP agrees to stop and says she will go into recovery, I need some help understanding how to enforce what the letter says. One major problem is that her half-brother is arriving to stay with us for the summer. He's from overseas, 22 years old, and speaks very little English. My AP barely knows him, and is excited about getting to know him. She says he is a light drinker. How do I handle the fact that if she agrees to stop drinking she's going to say she wants to start after her brother leaves? I know she's going to need some detox time and it will be hard while he's here, but I'm not convinced it's impossible. It might even be the best time for her to start recovery because he'll be here to distract her.
If you want to read the letter, I'll post it here as I would really value the critique and support.
Thank you so very much!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 172
Originally Posted by laurie6781
Starflier, let me say WELCOME to SR. You have found a really great place with lots of experience, strength and hope (ES&H).
Let me tell you what happened to me. I am both a recovering alcoholic and a recovering codie.
When I was 29 the Doctors told my husband and parents that if I did not quit drinking I would be dead by the time I was 30. Did that stop me? NOPE.
When I was 33 1/2 (and divorced) my parents told me in no uncertain terms that they would have no more contact with me until I took care of MY PROBLEM. You know what? They meant it. If I called on the phone they hung up, if I appeared at their door it was shut in my face.
It took me another 2 1/2 years to get sober and the last 1 1/2 years was living on the streets of Hollyweird. She will survive with or without you, but.....................will you?
Later in recovery when my Mom and I sat down and talked, she said that they just couldn't help me any more and watch me deteriorate that if they did they would end up in padded rooms speaking babble. I understood then, I didn't understand when I was drinking and their abandonment of me just gave me another excuse to keep drinking at first.
Do what you need to do for YOU. She will survive.
Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing, we do care very much!
Love and hugs,
Let me tell you what happened to me. I am both a recovering alcoholic and a recovering codie.
When I was 29 the Doctors told my husband and parents that if I did not quit drinking I would be dead by the time I was 30. Did that stop me? NOPE.
When I was 33 1/2 (and divorced) my parents told me in no uncertain terms that they would have no more contact with me until I took care of MY PROBLEM. You know what? They meant it. If I called on the phone they hung up, if I appeared at their door it was shut in my face.
It took me another 2 1/2 years to get sober and the last 1 1/2 years was living on the streets of Hollyweird. She will survive with or without you, but.....................will you?
Later in recovery when my Mom and I sat down and talked, she said that they just couldn't help me any more and watch me deteriorate that if they did they would end up in padded rooms speaking babble. I understood then, I didn't understand when I was drinking and their abandonment of me just gave me another excuse to keep drinking at first.
Do what you need to do for YOU. She will survive.
Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing, we do care very much!
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 172
Originally Posted by twistedruby
Sorry....I just misinterpreted when I read in your other post "short of losing one of my three gorgeous daughters."
One of those quirks about English....you can take stuff different ways.
Back to the A behavior.
My ah's dad's health is not good and he's 76.
I know that if my ah's drinking caused or resulted in his own death....it would literally kill his dad....and his mom is a very strong woman....but losing a child, regardless of the child's age, is one of those things you can't predict a parent's reaction to.
It's one of the most frustrating things to explain to the A....is how many people's lives they would gravely affect if they died as a result of the drinking...whether the wife says it or a parent, adult child, or sibling.
We've already known that would fall on deaf ears while they're still drunk....
When the A is potted and beligerent......they don't Care what their behavior is doing to others......and their drinking "friends" are no help whatsoever.
It has been made clear to my ah when sober, that the drinking is extremely destructive....and he did listen.....didn't say anything argumentative.
When he came in last Wed. intoxicated, but that time it was Mildly intoxicated....he was up at noon Thursday on his way to meet a business partner for lunch (one who Doesn't drink).....and had plans to use the tractor that afternoon.
I did something I had never done before....when he is leaving for the day.
I didn't say anything and I didn't ask one question about what he was doing.
I also didn't call his cell phone one time that day.
He finally called me about 920pm (sober) and asked if everything was Ok....saying, "You usually call me during the day, checking on me".....
I said "I just decided not to bother you at all."
(I had just spoken to a local al-anon sponsor the afternoon before and I was practicing "hands off/no reaction/no help".)
When he came home later Thurs. night he was still sober.
He was sober when he came in Friday night.
Last night he'd had several beers and when he came home he apologized and said "I'm sorry, I know I over-indulged."
Now, I know about empty apologies......but he NEVER apologized before....and it wasn't a response to anything I said....it was unsolicited.
So I will continue the no reaction/no help/no comments.
I'm sorry.....I just started rambling on about all that....
One of those quirks about English....you can take stuff different ways.
Back to the A behavior.
My ah's dad's health is not good and he's 76.
I know that if my ah's drinking caused or resulted in his own death....it would literally kill his dad....and his mom is a very strong woman....but losing a child, regardless of the child's age, is one of those things you can't predict a parent's reaction to.
It's one of the most frustrating things to explain to the A....is how many people's lives they would gravely affect if they died as a result of the drinking...whether the wife says it or a parent, adult child, or sibling.
We've already known that would fall on deaf ears while they're still drunk....
When the A is potted and beligerent......they don't Care what their behavior is doing to others......and their drinking "friends" are no help whatsoever.
It has been made clear to my ah when sober, that the drinking is extremely destructive....and he did listen.....didn't say anything argumentative.
When he came in last Wed. intoxicated, but that time it was Mildly intoxicated....he was up at noon Thursday on his way to meet a business partner for lunch (one who Doesn't drink).....and had plans to use the tractor that afternoon.
I did something I had never done before....when he is leaving for the day.
I didn't say anything and I didn't ask one question about what he was doing.
I also didn't call his cell phone one time that day.
He finally called me about 920pm (sober) and asked if everything was Ok....saying, "You usually call me during the day, checking on me".....
I said "I just decided not to bother you at all."
(I had just spoken to a local al-anon sponsor the afternoon before and I was practicing "hands off/no reaction/no help".)
When he came home later Thurs. night he was still sober.
He was sober when he came in Friday night.
Last night he'd had several beers and when he came home he apologized and said "I'm sorry, I know I over-indulged."
Now, I know about empty apologies......but he NEVER apologized before....and it wasn't a response to anything I said....it was unsolicited.
So I will continue the no reaction/no help/no comments.
I'm sorry.....I just started rambling on about all that....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 169
Originally Posted by sadandhopeless
I would love to see your letter as i would like to write one for my husband as well. You should advise her brother there is no drinking in your home.
The Long Climb
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 120
I just now stumbled upon this thread.
Welcome to SR, starflier. As you've seen, you'll find a lot of support here.
You are a truly amazing woman....An inspiration. Your story really touched me....
I hope your AP realizes what she stands to lose if she can't give up the booze.
Keep us updated!
-Rae
Welcome to SR, starflier. As you've seen, you'll find a lot of support here.
You are a truly amazing woman....An inspiration. Your story really touched me....
I hope your AP realizes what she stands to lose if she can't give up the booze.
Keep us updated!
-Rae
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 169
Originally Posted by RayRayRay
I hope your AP realizes what she stands to lose if she can't give up the booze.
Keep us updated!
-Rae
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