quickkick

If this isn't 'done,' please let me know. I'm new to this. I wanted to give some specific examples to give a flavor of what's been going on.

Some background...have been married fourteen years. When we met, it was obvious I had met the guy I was in love with. Not the man of my dreams, but the guy who had my heart. He felt exactly the same way, at exactly the same moment. It is obvious that he loves me.

Four kids, two from my first marriage, two from this marriage. Ages 18 down to 10. My husband has not committed any of the egregious Big Offenses...no infidelity, works hard, stopped drinking when I asked him to. That took a few tries, but he has completed that task. I didn't have too much problem with drinking, because it wasn't inappropriate. It's just that he would drive drunk, despite my pleas for him not to. I would offer to come get him, but the one time he called me I found him passed out in the truck in the front seat with the keys in the ignition, which I believe would have been a DUI. An extreme one. I brought him home, but chewed him out over sleeping in the car with the keys in the ignition. After that, I was branded as non-supportive.

Finally, he drove drunk with our sons in the car. It was bad enough that the boys were trying to figure out a way to get him sober enough to drive. They didn't realize they should call me and come get them all.

He wound up admitting that when he drank he quit caring whether he could drive or not and agreed, after some intense discussion, that he would not drink anymore.

His greatest asset is that, if I ask him to change something, he does. Not always easily, frequently with a lot of shouting, and not always obviously, but he does (Sometimes I wake up and realize...hey...he quit doing x.) . He is an absolute sucker for my daughters. If they ask for *anything* they get it. To their credit, they don't abuse that knowledge. He is super to our sons (his bio children). He spends a ton of time on scouts with them. He will go to counseling at the drop of a hat, if I ask for it.

His greatest liability is that he's an adult child of an alcoholic and frequently it. is. just. unbearable.

His default setting is suspicious and wary.

He has no idea about things like connotation or tone. In a recent exchange with the 18yo daughter, he told her that, because she is his 'subordinate' she has to respect him. He had no idea why she and I both flew off the handle, but our daughter responded perfectly: "Oh. I see. Here I always figured you were my dad, and treated you as such. But 'subordinates' aren't family, so you aren't my dad. This is some sort of business relationship."

If I ask him for help with a task, he will help, but then knocks everything over, runs things into me because he's not looking (I took it in the neck with a painstick last night). If I complain about that, he throws his hands up in the air and says, "You obviously don't need me," and stomps off. Well, yes, I needed help, not being knocked over.

When I realized he was letting his chores around our house slack off in favor of doing the same chores for our neighbors, I protested over a long enough period of time so that he has quit doing that. Question: why do I have to protest over that? Why couldn't he see that that was the same thing as me stepping over a huge pile of laundry to go to the neighbors' and do theirs, leaving our family to wear dirty clothes?

Worse, when we discuss this later, he proclaims, "I stopped doing that. I NEVER do that anymore because YOU WANTED IT." He's obviously hacked about this limit I imposed (and I never said, NEVER do it. I just said, "Not every weekend. Please. One out of four weekends? Get your own stuff at our house done fairly regularly!") Why is it all or nothing? Yes, you changed that behavior, but it is clear that you felt I was a colossal shrew about it.

Annoying habit of his: sleeping in the middle of our queen-sized bed, thus causing me to teeter on the edge to sleep, which makes it difficult to sleep soundly. No matter what I do, he winds up in the middle. He is a very affectionate sleeper and I need more space, so I know that if we got a king-sized we'd have the same problem.

With all of these things, if you complain about it, he decides (sometimes quite loudly) that he can't do anything right and so he will do nothing. He can't understand why he shouldn't say 'subordinate' to an eighteen year old girl about to start college, so he won't talk to her at all.

He quit drinking without going to AA, and I suspect that I have a dry drunk running around here. Hanging around him feels like I'm hanging around with his dad for any length of time (the alcoholic DH is the adult child of). It's like living with a roll of sandpaper.

If there is any personality type that would work well with his, I must not be it. I frequently feel pushed to the edge, just like in our bed. More than anything, I want to feel the way I used to about him, but it feels like I've been worn down, and the best feeling I have for him is the way you feel during a long race....one foot after another...one foot after another...

I bought the ACOA book, but it doesn't really give me good coping skills. I'm going to go to Al-Anon; the more I read in here the more I see I need that.

Any and all insight, even including what I'm doing wrong, is appreciated.

Rella927

Welcome to SR! Glad that you found us!

Please check out the stickies at the top of this forum as they are filled with a lot of information that will help you along too.

Sorry that you are going through this! Al-Anon was a good start for me and of course
a lot of knowledge that I have gained was from SR-from all party's involved here-Our A's especially!

Yeah sorry about that we can be kind of pesky and unbearable at times! When I began my recovery I found that when I stopped focusing so much on others-that I was the one with a lot of problems of my own! I do not drink but I'm sure at times growing up with Alcohol, drugs and mental illness it may have appeared that I did!

Al-Anon has taught me to live my life on my terms! Among an abundance of other tools to live my life and focus on ME!

IMHO reading the Adult Childrens book is not what is going to give you coping skills....Al-Anon and coming here will!

Good Luck and glad you are here! Keep posting

tryingtofly

Sorry I don't have any help to offer, although when I was looking at books on Amazon.com yesterday I saw this one: Amazon.com: Loving an Adult Child of an Alcoholic: Douglas Bey, Deborah Bey: Books It's called Loving an Adult Child of an Alcoholic and got good reviews.
I'm sure someone will be along shortly with better advice!

quickkick

Oh, thank you both for the welcome and the book recommend!

I think that another thing that makes this difficult is that he really, really resents any identification with the entire community of alcoholics or children of alcoholics. I honestly don't get it. If I were in pain, and I have been, and someone said, "Here. This might be the reason," and it looked like it was right and it looked like a path to not being in pain, I was all over it. Even when it meant admitting that I'd been behaving badly.

I know I can't make him accept any of this, but sheesh. The denial is almost as bad as the condition.

Barbara52

Sometimes bad behavior is just bad behavior.

As an ACOA, it took a long time before I understood just how many ways growing up in that environment screwed up my thoughts, behaviors and choices in life. I wasn't easy to choose to look into myself and start dealing with my issues. I'm still working on it! But, for me at any rate, being an ACOA is not an excuse for bad behavior, for hurting others, for acting like an azz. I don't buy Any ism as an excuse for bad behaviors.

Yes, denial is as bad as the underlying ism, whatever it may be. But you can't make him do the work he may need to do. Only he can chhose to work on himself. From what you've written he hasn't dealt with any of it although he has stopped drinking.

GiveLove

Hmmmm, yeah, I'm afraid I'm seeing a similar thing. This may or may not have anything at all to do with alcohol. This may just be a lot of miscommunication and misunderstanding between the two of you, social clumsiness on his part, and a need for some marriage counseling to see if your incompatibilities can be ironed out. It doesn't have to be labeled dry drunk or ACOA or anything else: it sounds like you two are just on different wavelengths and maybe you need to talk it all over with a professional to see if it can be solved.

On this labeling business: Personally, I would resent it like crazy if every time my husband and I had a disagreement over chores, communication, social skills, he blamed it on me being the child of alcoholics. He's trusting. I'm not. He's clumsy with tools, sucks at home repair, and I know to steer clear of him when he's wielding anything heavy or sharp I suck at housework, but am meticulous about tasks. We have to keep chore lists (in writing, with frequencies and responsibility) to make sure everything gets done fairly and regularly. We have two bedrooms for when one of us just can't sleep because of the other one's odd sleeping habits. Sometimes things come out of our mouths (i.e. "subordinate") that make the other go, "Alright, what am I missing here? Where did your brain get that?"

But we're crazy about each other, and recognize that we're both crazy in our own ways. It's worth working out, even if the methods are unorthodox. I don't want to control him. I just want to live my happy life, and have him live his, and I don't personally care how we get there.

I'm also focused on me, and not on him. I guess that helps.

A counselor might be able help you guys get back into alignment -- whatever the cause for the misalignment, ACoA, latent alcoholism, whatever -- and learn to treat each other with tenderness and patience again. No one should live in a home that makes them crazy.

Anyway, good luck.

i4getsm

I think you need to look into the book called Codependent No More by Melodie Beattie (sp?). The Adult Child of an Alcoholic is a book for your AH. You need to start focusing on you. You sound EXACTLY like me when I was still with my STBXAH. I make request after request for X. He eventually does X but I am still steamed that I had to battle for it to get done. And, everyone calls my XH a bull in a china cabinet because he does the same things like running into me because he's not paying attention.

My STBXAH was really just going through the motions. Even when he was sober for 6 months, it was a dry drunk and never really resolved any problems. Eventually it all started back up again, and at that time, I said enough and asked him to leave. Can you sit down and talk to him? If he's so agreeable, would he go to counseling or AA? I think you may need a separate counselor who will help you focus on you. You are the only person you can help. Your children may also need some support as they see what is going on in your home and are learning about relationships by watching the two of you.

quickkick

To recent posters...

I checked out the first chapter of the recommended Bey book, and I'd say that 95% of the behaviors listed are my husband.

That being said, I don't mention this at all to him, other than to say that if you're committing felonies while drunk driving (kids in the car in our state = child endangerment) and admit that you were too drunk to really care, I'm thinking you qualify. I never talk about any of the other stuff in our interaction. It's always case by case, focusing only on the behavior. If I *did* bring it up, I don't think it would be productive.

I hope I mentioned that one of his best qualities is that he will always go to counseling.

Oh, and when I ordered the Bey book, I ordered the Beattie set as well, both CDNM and the followup. I've read the first book, loved it, saw myself, and am anxious to re-read it and read the second book.

Thank you all so much for your input.

Barbara52

That's all very nice. Does he actually do the hard and painful work on himself that makes going to counseling worth something? Without the effort on his part, going to counselling is throwing one's money away.

cmc

Hi,
Like many of us here, I learned that there is a huge difference in what I thought I could control and what I could not. The _only_ thing that I can control, whether it's related to recovery issues or not...is myself. That said, the only way to find peace and self respect was for me to stop allowing others to ignore me, my needs or to otherwise treat me badly.

Making excuses for bad behavior, trying to understand bad/rude/destructive behavior will not stop it. It stops with me. Once I began to realize just how pervasive my own issues were....I saw some incredible changes with how I live and feel.

In many ways, growing up the way that I did set me up to be like that frog in the pot of water who doesn't realize that 'Hmmmm..it's getting a tad warm in here' before he's fully cooked.

It's taken therapy, alot of meetings, reading and coming here to fully realize just how much power I really do have to stop the kind of nonsense that I was conditioned to just ignore and allow.

Whether he loves you or not is not the issue. His actions towards you and the kids are consistently selfish and cruel. This is what the untreated disease of alcholism can be like....or maybe it has nothing to do with alcoholism. It doesn't really matter why- because ultimately, he is the only one responsible for his actions.

What it does have to do with is you and your kids. You can do something about that...and you've already made huge strides in that direction by attending meetings and by coming here and sharing your life with us. I'm really glad you decided to post in this forum.

You don't have to do this alone, there are alot of us here who care and will be glad to share what has worked for us.

quickkick

This is reply to the question about his willingness to go to counseling:

I don't know the answer to that. Overall, I'd say there's progress over the course of our relationship. Definitely.

It's very gradual, but when I consider fairly, I'd have to say 'yes.'

Barbara52

As someone who has done serious hard work on my own issues, I don't see progress in what you have described. I see someone gling thru the motions of change but not actually making changes.

When I started making changes, those changes were obvious and marked in my actions and words.

quickkick

The problem I keep running into is the practical application of your excellent advice...

Do I leave? If I don't, what is the best way to deal with each incident when it happens?
When he drove drunk with the kids, I said he was out of here. I could not tolerate that behavior. He asked if there was something he could do to change my mind. I did feel that if he quit drinking, which would eliminate drunk driving, that we could go on.

I can't keep packing my bags. I need to be able to address each incident of weirdness (all these things that don't include drinking) in a productive manner that doesn't include divorce. Because each incident isn't *that* big on its own. When I start to contemplate the entirety, I get tired and really don't want to do this anymore.

I know that you all have probably already covered this ground and you are very kind to be patient with me.

abcdefg

i can't be sure if i read your post correctly because i get a little overcome regarding this topic. so if i misunderstood you, i apologize and forget what i'm about to say.

if you are saying that this man is presently driving drunk with your/his children in the car, make no mistake about it: his drinking is beyond serious, as is your denial.

your respective diseases are now life-threatening.

the fact that no one has died YET is not an indicator that this situation is under control, manageable or below critically urgent.

quickkick

I guess I'd have to walk you through all fourteen years, almost minute by minute, to illustrate what I mean.

In some ways, no...not a lot. In other areas, lots. When I remember the man I married, in so many ways he does not do the same things. But he's a lot less suspicious of strangers. He holds jobs until a truly better opportunity comes along (and hasn't changed jobs in over five years), as opposed to getting mysteriously and serially laid off. That kind of thing.

Has he found new ways to make me crazy? Yes. For example, the drinking was a relatively new behavior.

And I imagine that everyone approaches recovery and self-improvement at various speeds, no? Let me put it this way: while he is driving me crazy right now, I have been aware that he has made changes and should recognize at least that. I understand that you don't want me putting on blinders, but I've been a harsh critic of the man; I feel I need to give him credit where it's due.

I do appreciate the input.

quickkick

Does it matter that he has quit drinking completely since that incident? The word 'presently' isn't accurate, as far as I can tell. ETA: it's been three months since the incident.

cmc

People that I knew had become accustomed to me, those that wanted to take advantage knew _every_ button to push and could probably manipulate me quite easily. That is really funny to me as I type this because the when it came to my qualifiers for my own program..."probably manipulate me'' a remnant of my own denial about how bad things were. I was an easy mark, all the while thinking that I was so helpful, caring and handling things that didn't belong to me.

So how I change is bit by bit, in ways that I know that I can follow through with. Going to meetings helps with this as does coming here and hearing all the different versions of the same story...over and over and over. That's what I still do today; continue to work on myself and be involved with those, who like me, struggle with codependency issues.

LaTeeDa

This is very true. I spent many years trying to force recovery and self-improvement on others. I had the idea that his behaviors were causing my unhappiness. It wasn't until I finally started my own recovery and self-improvement, that I realized I was causing my own unhappiness. I was expecting him to be someone else.

People change. He is never going to magically revert back to someone you married years ago. Just as you are never going to be the same person you were years ago. It all starts with here and now. Are you happy with your spouse just as he is? If he was to remain exactly as he is right now, would you be willing to remain in the marriage? Is your happiness contingent on him changing? These are the questions to ask yourself.

This is not to say that you cannot address particular behaviors that bother you. Communication in relationships is crucial. Making him aware that something bothers you is good communication. Expecting him to change in order to make you happy is your problem, not his.

L

GiveLove

Driving drunk with your children, passing out in his truck drunk, these things are clearly not something you want to put up with. Putting your life, your kids' lives, your financial future in jeopardy clearly isn't acceptable to you, nor should it be.

I guess a question I'd have is: Is it 100% clear in his mind what will physically happen next if he ever chooses to do these things again? Is it clear in yours? Are you able to communicate this to him, in no uncertain terms? Sleeping in the middle of the bed is annoying as hell; endangering peoples' lives is another thing entirely.

Maybe this is what you're trying to find out for yourself. What is a deal-breaker, and what isn't? What can be helped with negotiation/compromise, and what can't? It sounds from this perspective like he's made some serious mistakes, but he is actually trying, and sounds like you've made progress in your relationship. Putting some firm boundaries in place -- perhaps with the help of an impartial third party/professional -- might give you some degree of relief from the emotional exhaustion you're feeling.

You might still be on the journey then, but at least you'll have a map, and you'll be driving your own bus. Make sense?

Wishing you strength and peace of mind to find the right way for yourself & your kids.

quickkick

Yes. He understands that we will split. I understand that we must split. I know I spelled it out to him (I actually did it in writing) in no uncertain terms, and I believe, and his actions in this regard since then support, that the communication was successful.