carolineb

Keep it up...........

Alcoholics may be manipulative.....but underneath it all they are sad, scared and pathetic.

Once they know you know the truth, they lose power over you.

Way to go Teree. I see all green lights..........

LaTeeDa

I was just going to say something like this. You may think you have an agreement, but don't count on it. And try not to be surprised when he twists everything around again. IMHO, the best thing you could do right now is get an attorney, get everything down on paper and signed. Even then, I wouldn't expect to much in the form of cooperation or following through on agreed to terms.

Sorry it's come to this.

L

denny57

Amen!!!!!!!

queenteree

You know, from reading here at SR and posting and listening to all your stories, that is what keeps me strong and wise. I was thinking last night when he laid all that manipulation on me that that's exactly what it was - manipulation. If I had never come here to SR or gone to Alanon, I really would have felt like I had to get into a dialogue about each and every thing and prove my point that it was untrue, then we would have gotten into the blame shifting game and then he would have drank "because of me". So many of your stories are so similar to mine, and even now, while it is true that we have an "agreement", I know that "agreement" will not stand, he will not be out in two weeks (it's a ploy to make me get scared and think that "maybe he really will leave me, oh no, what have I done now??, lost the best husband in the world!!" cause in the mind of an alcoholic, they truly think we will think that) And you know, maybe in the past I may have. Not now, not any more. Even if he were to go to a 90 day rehab and live in a sober house for a year (no chance of any of that, but I'm just saying "if") I still would not want to be married to or be with him. I never want that threat of relapse hanging over my head, and while alcoholism may be a lifelong disease, it isn't my disease, it's his. I don't have to live with it. I chose to live with it, and now I choose not to. MY choice for MY life. I readily expect that things are not going to go as planned. They never do when dealing with an alcoholic. But I still will keep putting one foot in front of the other, get out of this relationship and will never again have alcoholism be a part of my intimate relationships. That I can say with certainty. And thank you all so much for reading and responding to my posts. You're the greatest!

Oh, by the way, I have an appointment w/a lawyer tomorrow night with my list of many questions to ask him, have all my financial info (which I never had before, AH pays all the bills) and will know my rights.

Barbara52

You sound so strong! How wonderful for you. Keep it up! {hug}

denny57

I am happy for you, QT.

queenteree

Thanks guys - trust me, I'm playing dumb, and I'm really good at that. He would never think that I would have all this in me. Anvil - what did you mean by give up the farm and livestock? Trust me, I'm getting everything I am entitled to.

queenteree

Thanks Anvilhead for mentioning that. If he was to keep my car, he would have to sell his truck and give me half. I guess I forgot to mention that to you all. No, I am going to make sure that I have all my bases covered, but thank you so much for pointing that out just in case I didn't think of it. My first marriage to an abuser, I just "let" him have the new car, the money he stole out of the bank, etc., just to be rid of him. So it could very well have happened this time too since not only do I want to be fair, I WANT TO BE RID OF HIM even more than my first husband. Again, thanks, you're so wise. Teree

Pajarito

QT- I am drawing a lot of inspiration and strength from your strength. Keep on truckin'. Paj

keepingmyjoy

(((((Teree)))))

OMG...I just got caught up on your post! You are one amazing woman! You went from agony and hurt to strong and clear headed at lightning speed.

I am in total awe of you!

Let us know how the lawyer appointment goes! I agree with Anvil...don't disclose too much...after what he did, he cannot be trusted with ANY info.

You are my hero!

melbar4

:bouncefrom you. I too am going through a divorce from an AH that walked out on me and my kids nearly three weeks ago. I am not having to deal with him trying to stay in the marriage just the occasional pretending to care dad to the three boys. He hasn't spoken to our 11 yo daughter but of course she knows way too much. He isn't able to charm his way back with her quite so quickly. Stay strong girl. I am learning from you!
Melissa

sodetermined

As I'm reading through this post, I realized how very much you are like me, I am also a codependent, been living with my abf for almost 3 years, well off and on anyway.

Anyway, I go to another forum and this was posted and was helpful to me. So I'm posting it for you. It's from a book written by Toby Drews called "Getting Them Sober".



Here's another Chapter in the book "Getting Them Sober" (I've condensed it a little)

Let the Crises Happen

They might save his life
They will save your sanity

A crisis occurs for the addict when his disease is in trouble-when his disease cries out for you to intervene and help. These crises happen so often that you probably live in a constant state of excited misery.

What does happen when the wife lets a hurtful thing happen to the addict, without stepping in and rescuing him. like she used to?

She feels guilty
The addict gets angry and threatens her. ((((((Very angry, especially when I say “No” I don’t have any money))))))

That’s when the real crisis begins----for her.
If she can go through with her plan to do what she knows is necessary for her, him, and the children, despite his threats, and despite her feelings of fear, anger and depression-and act self-protectively in the process-then the wife is well on the road to her own recovery from his insane behavior.

DO’S AND DON’TS
Let his crises happen to him. Let him---not you--- take the consequences of his disease. Don’t pick up the pieces of his falling-apart life. If he loses his job or his driver’s license—rejoice! It means he’s getting sicker, quicker. It means that maybe he won’t be able to stand up to that disease much longer.

Don’t’ get scared if he seems to recuperate quickly from his crises and “looks good” afterwards, like nothing’s happened. He may even smile and whistle and act like he’s getting better instead of sicker! Don’t be fooled by that! It’s all part and parcel of his denial system. Inside he’s scared to death, because his disease is progressing, if he isn’t recovering.

What do you do when other people rescue him after you’ve stopped? This commonly happens! Others very often feel sorry and believe the lies his disease creates. His mother, sister, brother, his boss, his “friends” who drink with him-many people get sucked in and cooperate with him, not realizing they are being manipulated and are helping to keep him sick. The addict usually has a whole string of patsies who belive his half-truths, his innocent understatements of what he really does, his denial system (((((yep, my ex found 2 other “girl” “friends” that believe everything he says))))).

What can you do?

(1) Try to remember that if those others must-for their own guilt or need to control-rescue your husband, they will probably get tired of his “junk” just like you did. They will probably see through him eventually, especially if you keep your hands off.

Nothing seems to “fire-up” a new rescuer more than an irate wife who insists that the person is a fool!

Don’t give such people a chance to get mad at you and try even harder, therefore, to show that they’re right---not you!

Remember these things. They’ll help calm you when you’re furious and scared. Do what you have to do.

If he chooses to get well, he will drop all his sick friends and be your husband, not a cripple who needs twenty mommies.

If a crisis happens, help my perspective to remain clear and my emotions to be strong.

sodetermined

have been reading this book (did not even know I had - not sure where I got it) but it's called "Getting Them Sober" - It's about living with alcoholics -- but I've substituted addict and it's really been helping me - so I thought I'd share some...Especially because for some reason (maybe the holidays) some of us have REALLY been missing our loved ones...Here goes...

This chapter deals with what I call the "closet fear." If anyone were to ask me to name one thing that I believe stops most spouses of alcoholics from making changes in their relationships - changes they know will help- it's the fear that the alcoholic partner will leave.

I've once heard it said most succinctly: "I was afraid of being rejected by a reject." Most of the audience winced when they heard that-they thought no one else had ever had that terrible thought. It seemed so dastardly to think those thoughts-but that's one of the most nautral, normal feelings the spouse of an alcoholic has.

For years you've been told by the alcoholic that "you're the cause of it all, "that you never do enough or do it right. You feel lower than a worm (except for the few times you feel like a saint). What could be worse than him leaving you especially when you're invested all those years and expended your energy in an effort to help him?

And what do you get for it? He has you scared to death that he will leave you at the drop of a hat if you don't continue to do as he wants.

Which brings us to an interesting point: who is really controlling your relationship? I'll bet you've been called the manager-the mommy. And the poor alcoholic is just shoved around by you, especially when he's feeling ashamed of past acts and slinks around the house, "taking abuse" from you.

But let's take a second look. Who is controlling whom-from behind-the-scenes? Who has whom revolving her life around him twenty-four hours a day? Who is thinking, worrying, stewing about him all the time? Neglecting your children, your hair, your mental condition, your intellectual improvement-everything? Who has you thinking that a million women "out there" are waiting for him? One alcoholic's wife has this to tell "I left Joe for ten whole days-just to show him who needs whom. Do you know what? When I came home, he didn't even know I'd been gone!"

How do you deal with this? First you remember two very important facts:
1) The alcoholic is an addict-a very dependant person. His dependence is not just on alcohol-he is very dependent on you.
2) The alcoholic is a denier-he denies his alcoholism. He denies he is dependant on you. He says instead that you need him. He has you fooled into believing that you need him more than he needs you. Knowing this- internalizing these truths-is very important, especially at the beginning of your recovery. It can give you the courage you need to start to make changes.

What happens if you do lose him? Some alcoholics do storm out. Most come back, if you want them. But the way your relationship is now, you could probably replace your alcoholic with 1,000 others in one day by placing this ad in your Sunday newspaper: "Wanted: one mate, can be drunk 50 percent of the time; come and go as you please. Grateful family waits at home. All your housework done. Very few responsibilities expected to be met. You may interview family at your convenience to see if we meet your requirements."

You see, once you make these changes, you'll start to feel so good about yourself that you won't worry about him leaving you. You will like yourself so much that the "new you" will know she deserves a husband who respects her, likes her, and treats her well. And when you begin to believe that and act like you believe it, your husband will treat you that way. I know it's difficult to believe now; but trust me that it's true. I know it is - but you have to take a little step of faith and start making some changes-and then you'll see it's true.

God, help me to take my steps by faith and to keep on walking toward the wholeness you have for me.

From the book "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews....

sodetermined

“Getting Them Sober” by Toby Rice Drews


Put Him in the Back of Your Mind

The spouse is as addicted to the addict as the addict is to the booze. That’s the heart of the sickness of the family. The next time you cry out in exasperation: “Why can’t he stop?!” – ask yourself: “Why can’t I stop-thinking about, worrying about, fretting about, feeling guilty about, and being angry toward-the addict? Try doing it for one whole day. You will find it’s almost impossible at first. (Experts still aren’t quite sure which is the greater need-the addict’s need for booze or the spouse’s need to worry about the addict).

This is not is not intended to make you “excuse” him from his drinking and lack of responsibility towards his family. Oh no! What I’m trying to do is show you that you have a problem: your own addiction to your spouse. Even though he has yelled at you to stop nagging him and get off of his back, he has probably encouraged you to keep centered around him.

That last sentence is the main way the addict hooks his spouse. He gets her to keep centered around him-and then he blames her for “keeping an eye” on him. He arranges all this so he can have someone to blame, so he can continue to drink.

What does this accomplish? It makes the addict feel bigger and bigger at the expense of the spouse who feels smaller and smaller and the more she feels he is so very powerful to control her, the less control she has of her own life. Why does the addict do this? He feels so rotten, so out of control of his own life, instead of turning inward, and seeing what he can do to make himself feel better, he thinks he can feel better by smashing someone else. Then he feels temporarily better. But it doesn’t last. That “puffed up” feeling he gets into only lasts a little while. Then he sinks low again. This makes him feel he needs to do it again, and again, and again. That’s why he acts so cruelly -ten, twelve, twenty times a day.

What effect does this have on the spouse? She feels like a crazy yo-yo.

What would happen to you, the spouse, and your addict if you stopped paying attention to his sickness? If you put him in the back of your mind?
(1) He might get so scared that no one will rescue him if he gets very sick that he will decide to get help.
(2) He won’t act any worse in his cruelty than he did before. It will be just more of his “junk”

Again, you’re worried that he’ll leave. “Him leave me? How degrading to be rejected by a reject.” See how sick everyone’s thinking gets?

Try to remember that you never “had” him in the first place.

No one “has” an addict. The illness has him. Unless he gets truly well, you’re living in an illusion to believe that you can come first before the disease. No one is that powerful that they can come first before the needs of an addiction.

That’s the crux of the matter. You only think about him so much because you want him to place you first too. If you believed, really believed that you will never come first to him as long as he stays sick, then you would probably give up trying. Please understand that this is not personal on his part. The nature of alcoholism demands that the addict place his family last-after alcohol and all its demands.

Believe this. It’s reality. It’s hard to hear, but if you choose not to, then you can beat your head against that brick wall for the next twenty years. Or you can try these methods to start living your life in a different way, and learn to teach yourself to stop thinking about him all the time.
(1) Remember that he will have more contempt for you if you continue revolving around him
(2) Share your new-found knowledge of this family disease with a person who is suffering the way you are. Let her read your book (((((That’s what I’m trying!!))))) You’ll hear yourself talking; it will reinforce you in your growth
(3) Start doing things to get self-centered, in the good sense. Learn about yourself and stay aware of who you are.
(4) Be good to yourself every day. Do at least one thing daily, for one-half hour, that makes you feel pampered.
(5) Get into your talent. Do something that enable you to begin to find your center-and stop centering around his center
(6) Reestablish contacts with old friends.
(7) Get out of the house and put yourself where you have to think about something other than that addict for several hours. ((((((It also said get a job if you don’t have one)))))
(8) If you have children, do all this for them. If you don’t want them to grow up sick, become addicts, or marry addicts, change your household now.

Let God concentrate on you.

NYC_Chick

WOW!!!

Thank you for posting this! It's exaclty what I needed to read today. By biggest fear is being rejected by him. I also fear that every woman wants him. He's in a profession where his music, his charm, is a big turn-on...it worked on me. I'm trying to let go of that and this helps!

I have also struggled with not being first and can't understand why he loves drinks more than me. This is so clear to me! I have to go get this book!!!

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!

Rella927

SoConfused that is one of the best books out there! Pick-a- name will tell you that too

Good reading!

carolineb

The 'Getting Them Sober' books have been great for me too. So reassuring.

NYC Chick - I also know that my xabf will have no problem finding another woman and that bothers me too. He is extremely handsome and romantic with women.

Here's what you have to keep in mind.......it's all for show. Yes, someone will be 'wowed' at first....but eventually they will come to the same conclusion as you.....or they'll spend months/years trying to get back the pieces of the person they saw in the beginning.

It will rob them of any self-respect that they had before meeting your loser. She will be another person for the alcoholic to be 'misunderstood' by. Keep all this in mind. She may look like she's having fun...but unless he's in active recovery.......it won't be happy for long.

queenteree

Thank you all for all your posts, and for posting excerpts from "getting them sober". I am drawing my strength from all of you. Today was another good day, despite AH asking if he could at least stay in the house until we sold it, that he would stay upstairs and not bother me. I calmly told him that while I believe right now his intentions are good at the moment (he has been "sober" for 3 days now) the minute he drinks things will change and that it will never work. He said "I can't drink, I'll lose my job and won't be able to have an apt. or car, I'll lose everything." I know now I have to get an apartment or something cause that 2 week move out will never fly (already anticipated that). I love reading all your responses, and they are giving me the strength to move forward (and also anticipate his next move since they have a certain "manual" they must go by). Hopefully the lawyer thing goes well later.

queenteree

Lightening speed? Ya think (really?)? Thanks for saying I'm your hero, you have been my inspiration for a while now, how you just left w/little guy and did what you had to do. Thanks for the compliment.
How are you and little guy doing?

NYC_Chick

Carolineb - Thank you for your post!!! I wake up with panic attacks over this. I talked to our couples therapist, now my solo therapist, about this. I explained it this way...

I told her I saw him as a train and saw me as a car on the tracks that he crushed and destroyed, the he got to just keep going like nothing ever happened. Happy as could be and on to another relationship. She said I could chose to look at it that way, or I could look at it this way.

The car gets towed away and the owner cares enough to fix it, no matter how long it takes, then gets to drive the car on a new path with limitless possibilities. The train, in the meantime gets to keep going, but still carries all the baggage and is limited to just that same track. So true! It's still so hard, though!

QT - I think you are amazing and I feel fortunate to read and learn from you.