FormerDoormat

I disagree. I wasn't able to move forward until I understood my behavior, not the addict's behavior. After 25 years of living with an alcoholic, I understood alcoholism and all the associated behaviors very well. No amount of learning about or focusing on alcoholism alleviated my problem, but learning about co-dependency and focusing on myself did.

good_luck

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but you had already learned about and understood the alcoholic behaviors, then worked on yourself. How can you accurately imagine that the results would have been exactly the same had you removed step 1? It's a hypothetical situation.

FormerDoormat

The point is that focusing all my efforts on understanding alcoholism or someone else's behavior kept me from focusing on the real problem with my relationships and my life--me. It was much harder for me to take a good look at myself than it was to place the blame on others.

I'd also like to point out that sharing what I've learned on my journey and what worked for me is not a criticism.

You got it right on the money, AnvilHead

good_luck

I do understand that I need to look at myself primarily. I also understand that I tend to do this too much. Within the relationship, it was about me and what I could do to change. Post-relationship, most effort has been focused on me, and what I could have done differently, what made me put up with such treatment, what my issues are, what I did wrong, etc.

I hold myself accountable for everything. I tend to hold myself accountable for things other people do towards me. Looking at someone else's behavior, letting them own their stuff and realizing that it has nothing to do with me, that I didn't cause it, is different for me. Understanding that he is responsible for his own behavior, that certain traits exist independent from me helps me to see what I need to focus on, the things that I actually can control.

Does this make sense? Item #3, for example, is about how much blame I get thrown at me, and how much of that I allowed. The way that I am, the way that I usually think about things, is that if someone is blaming me for something, there is something I could have done differently, and I proceed to tear myself apart. If this is a behavior, if it is a trait that others have, then I can distance myself from it. I can see it for what it is, and not get it tangled up in the reality of my self, and what I really need to fix within myself.

FormerDoormat

I can't speak for others, but I will never forget the pain of choosing to live with alcoholism for 25 years and doing nothing to help myself. I also will never forget the pain of watching my alcoholic boyfriend die a slow, agonizing death. I understand the struggle very well, but I don't choose to live that way any more. Today I choose happiness.

cagefree

When the student is ready, the teacher appears...

hopeangel

i don't like the way i react in response to it.

I DON'T LIKE THE PERSON IT MAKES ME

or that i allow it to make me.....

i'm allergic to it. much like my cat. i have a bad reaction to it.

Barbara52

Yes, understanding our own behavior and choices is the most important thing. I didn't mean to imply it wasn't.

Some of us didn't live with As long enough to gain the understanding we need now. Some of us still take on too much responsibility for the As behavior and learning what is A behavior helps us understand where we were not responsible.

For me, it did help understanding what some typical A behavior was. Its helped me see what behaviors, etc in my STBXAH was A behavior and what was just the behavior of an AH (the other meaning for that little abbreviation). Understanding what an AH he is helped me in my recovery because it reinforced my knowing of my strengths, weaknesses and where I was being unhealthy in my view of the world.

splendra

How do I I react to these behaviors:

1 I have turned a blind eye and created a huge wall of denial
2 I have taken responsibility for others to my own detriment
3 I have allowed another human being to take advantage of me thru using blaming, shaming and guilt...

finally awakening hardly able to breathe that stuff will kill us if we let it.

cagefree

Exactly.

Making changes in my life could not have happened without me changing. Understanding my behaviour helped me to acknowledge what I needed to change about myself and I am still working on putting these changes into action every single day. I pretty much try to catch myself thinking in codependent ways, then make changes myself. This takes up so much thought and introspection I don't have much time left to think of XABF.

The hurt and pain I felt at the total dissolution of any kind of friendship/relationship with XABF was my motivation to change. Little did I realize at that time that I let it happen to me. I literally sacrified my emotional well-being for someone who didn't care, had shown he was not available to be in a healthy relationship.

When I came to the realization of MY ownership, it took a lot to forgive myself for letting him into my life. It took months.

ICU

I think the road to recovery is as individual as each of us are.

I certainly started with looking at and trying to understand my exab's behavior, drinking habits, etc. It was foreign to me.

That led me to some Alanon meetings, and, open AA meetings. It was at the open AA meetings that I learned his behavior was not so very unique. That was my first step at 'not taking it personally', and, 'not taking ownership in his behavior'. That was huge for me.

As time went on, so did my learnings and my recovery. The point is, we all have to begin our journeys somewhere. What we will learn and where it will lead us is also as individual as each of us. Every question we ask, no matter where the focus is, leads us to the next step, in our own time, as we are ready.

good_luck

Well, this has certainly turned into an interesting discussion. From looking at the different responses, it seems like we do each take our own path in healing. It looks like some of us start with looking at, and taking responsibility for, then eventually look at the A's behavior. Some people start with blaming the A, then move on to taking ownership of their own behaviors.

I propose that both things probably need to be done, and the order isn't as important as finding some kind of balance.

Doesn't this make sense? I hear a lot of "own your own stuff" and "keep your side of the street clean" on here. These are good philosophies, but I think that there is first a process of going through the "stuff" and separating it into piles, or getting out the atlas to see where the lines on the map are.

denny57

Definitely, good_luck. At the beginning I needed constant reminders to not stay stuck in the "other."

ccirider

I don't see how focusing on your ex is going to help you to move on. You could argue that you are focusing on yourself, but if you go back to your OP, there was no mention of what you couldn't stand about yourself. You only talked about what you couldn't stand about your ex.

Taking a moral inventory of him isn't limited to what you can't stand about him, as you already know. It also includes his strengths as well as his weaknesses. I am sure that there must have been something good about him in the beginning to attract you to him, although in the latter stages of alcoholism it is harder to find good things to say about an alcoholic. If taking a moral inventory of him helps you to understand the relationship you had with him, then good for you. My problem, right from the beginning, was that you took his moral inventory (at least the negative part of it) and completely ignored your own inventory in the OP. You, and others here, can try to dance around this point all you want, but I call the balls and strikes as I see them coming over the plate. Perhaps, you may feel like kicking dirt all over this umpire's shoes, but I really do think that you threw a pitch way out of the strike zone in your OP.

It sounds like you are implying that somebody has slammed you. I don't see where that has occurred, so maybe you could point out to me where that has occurred.

Would you mind pointing out to me where you were focusing on yourself in your OP?

You don't understand why that stuff, the focusing-on-me stuff belongs on this forum? My problem, as a codependent, has been that I have focused too much on others and not enough on myself. Recovery, for me, is all about the focusing-on-me stuff.

To be honest with you, I haven't seen that.

Who has shown a lack of respect here for anything? Everybody has been very careful to speak to you, and everybody else here, in a respectful way. Go back and reread FD's posts, because the way this umpire sees it, she is throwing strikes right down the middle of the plate. The rest is a bunch of foul balls.

Peace.

denny57

Whoa!!!!! Who's taking whose inventory now? I took enough abuse from the addict in my life, thank you.

hbb

I am speechless. Last i knew this forum was for support. Didn't see it here, maybe it's just me. I agree with Denny. I thought we here try to talk with each other, not at each other jmho.

good_luck

Seriously?

ccirider

I don't know since you seem to be making the call. You seem to be implying that I am taking somebody's inventory. I don't know good_luck well enough to take her inventory or anybody else's inventory here.

Having said that, and in keeping with my baseball analogy, calling balls and strikes as I see them coming across the plate is different from taking someone's inventory. To take someone's inventory would imply that you know how many home runs, how many singles, how many doubles, and of course, how many strike outs. I don't know good_lucks batting average. I am merely saying that her OP was a foul ball. It is what it is, but addicts and codependents have a very difficult time with truth and honesty, don't they?

I have no idea where this strawman is coming from? Who is arguing that you didn't take enough abuse from the addict in your life?

ccirider

It is for support.

Well, maybe it is you. When you are truthful and honest with yourself and others, you are being supportive, ESPECIALLY with addicts and codependents.

I agree with FD, but I accept you agreeing with Denny. As long as we leave it at that, we won't have a problem, right? I wouldn't have said anything, as I said, but when FD spoke up, I felt compelled to support what I believe to be the truth. I don't think that anybody has slammed anybody else. At least I didn't see it, did you?

Peace.

denny57

good_luck - sorry that your OP has gone off track.

((()))