good_luck

Hey all. This board has been a treasure for me. I think that I am doing a good job in my recovery. I've gotten some perspective, and am able to separate myself from the tiny confusing details to see the larger picture.

This is what I am left with. This is what I cannot stand about my ex:

1) Lack of respect for self and others
2) Lack of empathy/ overabundance of self-pity
3) Inability/unwillingness to take responsibility for actions/choices, superhuman capacity for blame and resentment

Especially #3. #3 would be why I am struggling towards compassion most days and have lost all respect for my former love.

So. Are these alcoholic traits?

LisaWayne

You nailed my AH with#3. It is so exasperating. As far as #2 he has a lot of empathy for other people. It is part of his burden to bear and proves his tender loving sensitivity. He sees his sensitivity as a good thing. I would too, to a lesser degree. He is hyper sensitive and defensive.

Barbara52

From what I konw, yup, you've nailed it for many alcoholics. It certainly describes the A in my life.

good_luck

I would say that my ex had "empathy" for other people. Meaning: he would present an empathetic front, go out of his way to help people, be perceived as the nicest guy in the world, and then resent the living h*** out of whoever he helped, complaining endlessly about the things that he did for others, making other people feel sorry about how taken advantage of he was, and making people think less of the poor person who took him up on his offer in the first place.

GiveLove

Wow, good_luck.....were you & I seeing the same man?

Nailed it.

Barbara52

My STBXAH loves to present himself to the world as a wonderful father, a caring/ loving man, a great poet even. Heck he's likely to have tears flowing on seeing/hearing a sad story because he cares so deeply.

In reality: his children want little to do with him because he's verbally abusive, distant, judgemental and drunk whenever they see him. He talks big about helping other but doesn't follow thru and didn't help his own family.

DII

My AW same thing. I don't know how many other people want to help them avoid responsibility too!

nowinsituation

I'm not sure if this is part of #3, or would be a #4 -- my ah lacks initiative. It's more than that he doesn't take responsibility; he just flat out is not capable of making a plan and following it. Even something as obvious as a flat tire -- I pulled out of the garage one day and realized that a tire on the car was completely flat so I stopped and we all got out. He stood there an looked at the car and the tire for what seemed like a full minute. Finally I said, "well, are you going to change the tire so we can go??" It's like he couldn't even realize what had to be done.

Kindeyes

1. Check
2. Check
3. Check

Yup.....my A son has done all three!

FormerDoormat

Why focus on the negative attributes of an ex-partner? In fact, why focus on an ex-partner at all? Today when I find myself slipping back into this type of thinking, I ask myself does this thinking move me towards happiness or away from it?

good_luck

I focused on these attributes for a few reasons.

One was to clarify the more general behaviors that I found problematic, instead of specific nights, fights, etc. Doing this helps me to see the opposite as desirable and necessary attributes in future partners.

It also helps me to distill the behavior down in this manner because it depersonalizes it. It's not that my feelings continue to be hurt by these things; it's not like I think that these things are unfair. But in reviewing the relationship and taking everything into account, these were some underlying factors that permeated every facet of the relationship and made it a really untenable situation for me. These were behaviors that I ignored on a day-to-day level, but added up, over time, I can see that they weren't just incidents that I could have avoided by acting or responding differently.

That last part may sound silly, but it has been hard to wrap my head around the idea that things couldn't have gone differently than they did. These three things tell me that they couldn't have, that it couldn't ever have been truly acceptable to me. That I wouldn't have been happy living with an active alcoholic. This is hard for me, because I will always love my ex. We didn't break up over lack of love. It's one thing to recognize that I don't want to marry an alcoholic. It is quite another to come to terms with the fact that I will never have ____ in my life again and that this is for my own good.

Finally, I posted this on this message board because this is where I am able to speak with other people that love/ have loved alcoholics. My ex is the only alcoholic that I have loved, and now I am no longer in contact with him. It is not an experience that I share with family or friends, and though they are more than willing to listen and talk, I value the opportunity to get feedback from others that have been there.

If I ask myself whether this moves me towards happiness or away from it, I would answer that it moves me towards it.

I have only been away from my ex for about 2 months. We dated for 3 years. I don't believe that I am dwelling, I think that I am making progress in understanding and growing from this experience. I am doing that at a pace that is comfortable for me, hesitant to declare myself cured or over it before I am.

Not because I am comfortable living in a place of pain. Because I want this pain to have been for a reason. And I want to avoid this in the future. But the only way out is through, after all.

Thanks.

ccirider

Hi good_luck:

I have to agree with FormerDoormat here. I wasn't going to say anything here because sometimes I think maybe I speak my mind too much. Having said that, I am glad FD spoke up.

You are clearly taking his moral inventory, and while what you say about him may be true, it's his moral inventory and not yours. You are talking about what you can't stand about your ex. I could understand you talking about him better if you were still married to the guy and living with him, but you are not. Isn't it time to move on? I can understand you wanting to understand alcoholism better because it has affected your life in such a horrendous way, but you don't have to start a thread about what you can't stand about your ex to understand alcoholism better.

Okay, I will shut up now. I am just being honest here, and maybe I am way out of line here. If I am way out of line, then people being honest with me in the same way I am being honest with them will hopefully guide me to the truth. Maybe I am right or maybe I am wrong. I am just honestly sharing with you my feelings here.

Peace.

cagefree

Agreed. My relationship with XABF leaves a bad taste with me not so much because he did things that typical alcoholics do, but because I let him do those things, stayed with him and chose to not take care of me, until I was incredibly hurt.

At the same time, I do think it's good to look at what you've allowed into your life, red flags you've ignored.

Good Luck - You listed the 3 main behaviours I used to allow into my life on a regular basis (notice the 'used to' ) Defining what is acceptable and was is not as well as looking at why I ignored unacceptable behaviours helped me to move forward in my own recovery.

My thoughts were and still are: Until I recover, I will keep allowing unacceptable things into my life and will continue to get hurt.

I was also with XABF for 3 years and have been in no contact with him since march - I remember those 2 months afterwards...full of anger, sadness, guilt, confusion, rage...(((Hugs)))

Barbara52

Sometimes moving forward to personal happiness must include understanding the bahavior of the A in our lives. Its a means of clarifying what problems were part of the disease of alcoholism. Its a means of understanding in general. It doesn't necessarily mean we are focusing on the A rather than ourselves.

good_luck

While I appreciate your honesty, this is a exactly how I am moving on. I'm sorry if it isn't fast enough, or incorrect in some other manner. It has been hard for me to process the alcoholism and abuse, and deal with the situation that I got myself into. This is where I come to understand alcoholic behavior, what alcoholism is, to get to the bottom of what is "spiritual" about the disease.

I have read several books and many articles to understand the disease. This is where I come to understand things on a more personal level.

It seems an appropriate resource, no?

There definitely are other aspects to me, can we just assume that about each other? I don't imagine that just because someone is posting on a friends and family of alcoholics forum about their friends and family that are alcoholics they are these one-dimensional people, running around in the world.

Neither do I slam people on Epicurious for not having interests other than cooking.

I am focusing on myself. I am thinking about my behavior/emotional health/ personal growth. But, in truth, my pre-existing problems that allowed me to accept this type of relationship into my life have very little to do with alcoholism in specific. At this point I no longer think of myself and my problems in relation to the ex, so I don't see why that stuff, the focusing-on-me stuff belongs on this forum. It did at one time, but I've "moved on."

Again, I appreciate people's honesty. But I really don't appreciate the lack of respect for individual process in dealing with trauma and grief. Not everyone deals with things in the same way, and it wouldn't be appropriate or helpful if they did.

LaTeeDa

It was extremely helpful for me to identify behaviors that were unacceptable and then to figure out why I accepted them. Not so helpful was trying to figure out my AH. Whether his behaviors were caused by the alcohol, or just part of his personality really didn't matter in the end. These days I do not accept unacceptable behavior in my relationships, regardless of the cause.

L

denny57

It doesn't matter to me if they are alcoholic traits. If the person I have in my life exhibits these traits, I don't want them around me. I know plenty of people who have all of these traits and no addiction problem.

Today the question for me would be not this one, but "are they traits I want to accept?"

AH was all of these and more. Today I say so what and am glad I got here to say it.

((()))

hbb

I personally think it's an individual progression. If this is how it helps to cope than i so be it. I would never critisize how someone recovers and moves on from a break up/divorce. I'm exactly feeling like Good_luck, it does help to get a better understanding of the A and their ways. I just think that sometimes the more progressed sometimes forget the pain of a newer persone here struggling and trying to get to the other side. I know for me, it's been a real rough road.

(((Good_luck)))

denny57

I will never forget the pain. I lived it for 20 years, how could I? I am grateful I had those who traveled this painful road before guiding me out of it.

BTW, they didn't do it with pats on my head, either, but more like kicks to my butt.

:ghug3

good_luck

Good points. If they weren't alcoholic traits, they would still suck.

I think the problem that I still sometimes have, though, is a result of the structure of an alcoholic/abusive relationship. I look for this validation "is this alcoholic behavior?" because I lived in denial, and developed cognitive dissonance, to a really disorienting degree.

So sometimes I slip back into that. Sometimes I think, "was that really real?" I wrote things down, I have a list of craziness, but it also helps to have people say, "yep. That sounds familiar."

Then I think, "ok. This is true of others. It is true of me. It happened. It's unacceptable. You didn't cause it. Cool."

And I feel better. So thanks.